Theorymon
Long Live Super Mario Maker! 2015-2024
Introduction
The match-up between leads is highly significant in the Ubers metagame, more so than in Standard or UU. With so many major threats profiting from a lack of enemy entry hazards (Ho-oh, Shaymin-S) or from the presence of friendly entry hazards (Rayquaza, Lucario), the pivotal turns in an Ubers match are often the first two or three. As a result, choosing an effective lead is foundational to Ubers teambuilding. An effective lead in Ubers accomplishes one of three purposes: either it specializes in setting up entry hazards and/or supporting the rest of the team, or it specializes in preventing other leads from doing so. Some leads fall into more than one category.
The purpose of this thread is to find, explore, and share new, viable leads for the Ubers metagame! Before we get to the rules, let's look at several common Uber leads. When constructing an anti-lead, I want you all to take these leads into account (ESPECIALLY DEOXYS-S!). If your lead does not handle any of these threats well, it better have a damn good trick up its sleeve, or it's likely not viable!
Deoxys-S
Deoxys-S is by far the most prominent lead in the Uber metagame, and for a good reason: it's the ultimate suicide lead! It has access to Spikes and Stealth Rock, and it's fully capable of using its insane Speed to set both up. It can even choose to shut down your lead with Taunt. If Deoxys-S gets both Stealth Rock and Spikes up, you are usually going to be in big trouble, as this lets sweepers like Lucario become far more dangerous than normal.
This is THE lead to prepare for. Deoxys-S is such a prominent and potentially dangerous lead that some leads are viable JUST because they shut Deoxys-S down! If your lead doesn't prevent Deoxys-S from getting down Stealth Rock and Spikes at least most of the time, then it better pair well with Forretress, or it's likely in trouble!
Groudon
When encountering stall teams, you'll find that defensive Groudon is going to be their most common lead. Groudon's purpose is to set up Stealth Rock, bring in the sunny weather, and sometimes cripple the opponent with Thunder Wave. Sometimes, Groudon leads will carry a Chesto or Lum Berry to take Darkrai's Dark Void.
Because this is most often seen on stall teams, and because of its inability to stop Deoxys-S, you are going to see Forretress be paired with this thing a lot. Another thing to note is that Groudon leads don't run much Speed at all, and you will see that several leads can take advantage of that.
Darkrai
When equipped with Choice Scarf, Darkrai becomes one of the best answers to Deoxys-S in the game. Darkrai's boosted Speed will allow it to Dark Void Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A before they can move. Thanks to Bad Dreams, Deoxys-S or Deoxys-A will take damage and thus lose their Focus Sash! As you can imagine, this tactic is very effective against other suicide leads too. Darkrai can also use a Focus Sash to screw up how people normally deal with Darkrai leads.
Shaymin-S
Choice Scarf Shaymin-S is another lead who rose in popularity to deal with Deoxys-S. Shaymin-S accomplishes this by flinching it to death with Air Slash. It also deals with Groudon by smashing it with Seed Flare (something only specially defensive Groudon can survive). Much like lead Darkrai, Shaymin-S is going to be a huge pain in the ass for most Focus Sash leads.
Deoxys-A
Much like Deoxys-S, Deoxys-A is mostly seen as a suicide lead with Stealth Rock. Unlike Deoxys-S, though, Deoxys-A has monumental 180 base Attack and Special Attack stats, allowing it to scare off common leads. Most Deoxys-A have Superpower to 2HKO Dialga and to KO Blissey later. Almost all of them also have ExtremeSpeed to pick off faster, near dead threats. The last move is usually up in the air. Many Deoxys-A have Ice Beam to 2HKO Groudon or Grass Knot to 2HKO both Groudon and Kyogre. Shadow Ball is another common move to ensure that Deoxys-S is unable to get Spikes up (as long as Deoxys-S doesn't ExtremeSpeed Deoxys-A!). Finally, some Deoxys-A have Fire Punch to OHKO Forretress and Scizor switch-ins (or leads).
Kyogre
Kyogre may not be the most common lead anymore, but it's still a fairly common one. Most lead Kyogre nowadays have a Lum Berry. Generally, as a lead, its main purpose is to defeat Darkrai and Shaymin-S (who cannot OHKO max HP Kyogre). Kyogre leads often have Thunder Wave, mainly to screw up Palkia, Latias, and Latios. Although not as common, some Kyogre leads may actually carry a Choice Scarf and Water Spout, which can screw up common tactics against Thunder Wave Kyogre.
Dialga
Dialga is a lot like Groudon in several ways. Like Groudon, Dialga leads are usually quite bulky and carry Stealth Rock. Unlike Groudon, though, Dialga is fully capable of defeating Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and Kyogre leads. Thanks to the Lum Berry, Dialga will take Darkrai's Dark Void with ease, and then OHKO it with Draco Meteor. Shaymin-S is unable to OHKO Dialga with Earth Power, while Dialga will OHKO it back with Draco Meteor. Against Kyogre, Dialga has the option of carrying Thunder to 2HKO it, while Kyogre is unable to do the same. Much like Groudon leads, Dialga has trouble against Deoxys-S leads, so don't be shocked if the team has a Forretress!
Mew
Mew's popularity as a lead has recently risen due to its ability to deal with some top leads. Like Groudon and Dialga, Mew plays the role of the bulky lead that sets up Stealth Rock. However, Mew's movepool ensures that it's not outclassed. Taunt is a huge selling point here. Thanks to Taunt, Mew is able to shut down Groudon and Dialga's attempts to set up Stealth Rock. U-turn is perfect for scouting the opponent's reactions to Mew, and Explosion allows Mew to take down a Pokemon once it can do no more.
Against Deoxys-S, Mew won't be able to do much except U-turn away to something that may prevent it from setting up more entry hazards, such as Scizor. Mew deals with Deoxys-A in a similar manner. Mew has several choices of dealing with Darkrai. Thanks to Mew's Lum Berry, Darkrai will be unable to put it to sleep, and it will also be unable to OHKO Mew with Dark Pulse. If you predict a Dark Void from Choice Scarf Darkrai, you can use Taunt to shut it down. If your team really needs Stealth Rock out, you can set that up. Finally, you can use U-turn to deal some damage to Darkrai (and possibly screwing up a Focus Sash Darkrai). Vs. Lum Berry Kyogre, you will be able to set up Stealth Rock, and then either U-turn out or Explode. Be wary, as Choice Scarf Kyogre is often able to OHKO Mew with Water Spout! Against Shaymin-S, it's going to depend on whether or not the RNG hates you that day due to Air Slash flinches 4HKOing Mew. Be warned that if Seed Flare gets a Special Defense drop, it will KO Mew the following turn!
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The Rules
READ THESE RULES CAREFULLY! If your post (about the lead you are proposing / talking about) does not follow these rules, it's likely to get deleted!
1. YOU MUST STATE WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE TESTED THE SET!
2. When talking about your lead, you must include how it fares with the top 7 leads above. It's okay if it can't deal with all of them; no lead can do that! Even if you haven't tested your set yet, you still must include your predictions of how it will fare against these leads!
3. If your lead looks like it's outclassed by another, state its advantages over the seemingly better lead.
4. Try and be as short as possible with your posts; you only need to cover the basics. This means no team options like sections! The only time you should mention teammates is if your lead works ESPECIALLY well with a certain Pokemon (such as how the Cloyster lead works well on Ho-oh teams due to Rapid Spin). Leave the extra details to the people in C&C. A good rule of thumb is that if you have more than two paragraphs, you are writing too much (hell try and keep it down to one paragraph if you can, though that's not always possible).
5. No joke leads. Sure, it might be hilarious when you beat someone with a Delibird, but it's called a joke for a reason!
6. Don't post sets that have already been posted! If no one seems to be commenting on your set and you want feedback, PM a mod (Jibaku, bojangles, or me) to comment on it.
7. If you are still having trouble constructing your post, look at the section below for some good examples!
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The leads that work!
Here is the place where we will list all the leads that have been proven to work (this is entirely up to the moderators).
Giratina-O @ Platinum Orb
EVs: 252 Atk/216 SpA/40 Spe
Lonely nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Hidden Power Fire
This is just mixed Giratina-O, but it just so happens to work well as a lead. Giratina-O will be able to 2HKO Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A with Shadow Sneak. Deoxys-A will be unable to OHKO Giratina-O with Shadow Ball, and it can't even pick off Giratina-O with ExtremeSpeed thanks to its Ghost typing. Draco Meteor 2HKOs most Groudon, while Kyogre is 2HKOed by Outrage. Be warned, as Choice Scarf Kyogre will 2HKO you with Ice Beam and outspeed you! Shaymin-S is only able to 3HKO-4HKO Giratina-O, while Giratina-O 3HKOs Shaymin-S with Shadow Sneak. Giratina-O will have serious issues with Darkrai, though, as it has no way of preventing Darkrai from putting it to sleep. Dialga will also be a serious issue for Giratina-O, as Giratina-O is unable to OHKO it, while Dialga will OHKO Giratina-O with Draco Meteor.
Deoxys @ Focus Sash
EVs: 112 Def/146 SpA/252 Spe for Naive
112 Def/150 SpA/248 Spe for Rash
- Shadow Ball
- ExtremeSpeed
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes / Grass Knot / Fire Punch / Low Kick
While Deoxys is normally outclassed by Deoxys-A, it's able to do one thing most Deoxys-A could never do: survive two ExtremeSpeeds from Deoxys-S (thanks to the higher Defense stat and 112 Defense EVs). Because of this, Deoxys is able to defeat Deoxys-S one on one, since Shadow Ball + ExtremeSpeed will always KO minimum HP Deoxys-S from Naive Deoxys. If you don't like how Shadow Ball + ExtremeSpeed KOs max HP Deoxys-S around around 72% of the time (28% chance of survival), then you have the option of using a Rash nature to always defeat max HP Deoxys-S as well. Be warned, though, this means that Deoxys will always lose to Deoxys-A leads (due to the lower Speed). Naive Deoxys vs. Deoxys-A is determined by who wins the speed tie when both of their Focus Sashes are broken. If you choose to go with Spikes, Deoxys will be able to set up Stealth Rock + one layer of Spikes against Groudon, Dialga, and Kyogre (unless it has Choice Scarf, which means you will only get Stealth Rock up). If you don't want Spikes, you have a few other options here. With Grass Knot, you will easily 2HKO both Kyogre and Groudon, but will only be able to Stealth Rock against Dialga. With Fire Punch, you will only be able to set up Stealth Rock on Kyogre, Groudon, and Dialga, but you will be able to screw over Forretress switch-ins in the sun. Finally, with Low Kick, you will be able to 2HKO Dialga leads, but will only be able to set up Stealth Rock on Kyogre and Groudon. No matter which move you choose, though, Choice Scarf Darkrai will be a bitch with its ability to put you to sleep AND break your Focus Sash. Shaymin-S will also be cruel with its ability to 2HKO you with Air Slash, thus possibly flinching you before you even get the chance to set up Stealth Rock.
Note that Deoxys-A CAN run an EV spread that allows it to take two ExtremeSpeeds from Deoxys-S: 162 HP / 252 Def / 96 Spe. However, Deoxys actually mostly outclasses this. Naive Deoxys can speed tie with Deoxys-A, while Rash Deoxys is actually faster and more powerful than this Deoxys-A. Thus, the only reason to use bulky Deoxys-A over Deoxys is that it has more Attack, thus having a more powerful ExtremeSpeed and the ability to OHKO max HP Deoxys-S 100% of the time with Signal Beam + ExtremeSpeed (Rash Deoxys does this around 90% of the time).
Scizor @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/8 Atk/252 SpD
Adamant nature
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Pursuit / U-turn / Brick Break
Thanks to Scizor's typing and movepool, it can make a good lead in Ubers. Bug Bite will easily put Deoxys-S into the KO range of Bullet Punch (assuming they have Focus Sash). However, Bullet Punch is an extremely predictable move; thus you can choose to use Pursuit as Deoxys-S switches out. Against Deoxys-A, you will crush it with two Pursuits as long as it doesn't have Fire Punch. If Pursuit doesn't interest you, you can use U-turn to scout potential switch-ins instead. Brick Break offers coverage and smashes through Reflect and Light Screen, which might come in handy against teams focused around Baton Pass Mew. Darkrai leads have no chance against you, being OHKOed by Bug Bite while they can't OHKO you or even put you to sleep, thanks to the Lum berry. Shaymin-S will also be 3HKOed by Bullet Punch, while the best it can do to you is 3HKO you with Air Slash. However, Scizor will have huge problems with Kyogre, Dialga, and Groudon leads. Kyogre and Dialga can smash Scizor with their Water-type and Fire-type moves respectively, while Groudon will take little damage from Scizor's assaults.
Forretress @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SpD
Careful nature
- Payback
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Explosion / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
As you may have noticed, this is identical to the standard Forretress used in Ubers. Forretress has two main selling points as a lead: beating Deoxys-S and non-Fire Punch Deoxys-A. Generally, it's best to Payback first against Deoxys-S, as it's likely to Taunt you, while it's also a good idea to Payback Deoxys-A so you can break its Focus Sash. As long as Groudon lacks a Fire-type attack, you will be able to at least set up one layer of entry hazards (Support Groudon's Earthquake 3HKOs). Forretress doesn't do too well against other leads, though, being put to sleep by Darkrai, flinched to death by Shaymin-S, torched by Dialga, and smashed by Kyogre. However, its ability to deal with Deoxys-S so well earns it the place of being a good lead for most stall teams.
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
This lead should be familiar to users who play OU. This is a suicide lead with a twist: it can deal a massive amount of damage with Endeavor. Earthquake + Ice Shard will always OHKO Deoxys-S leads with minimum HP. Unfortunately, Jolly Mamoswine is unable to defeat maximum HP Deoxys-S before it lays down Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Even Adamant Mamoswine only KOs max HP Deoxys-S with Earthquake + Ice Shard around 37% of the time. Dialga is 2HKOed by Earthquake, and if you get attacked while setting up Stealth Rock, you can use Endeavor to greatly weaken Dialga. Lum Berry Kyogre and Groudon are dealt with in a similar way, with Kyogre being left at one HP (since this Mamoswine is faster). Choice Scarf Kyogre will force you to switch out after you set up Stealth Rock, though. Shaymin-S is smashed to pieces by Ice Shard, making Mamoswine one of the few suicide leads that defeats Shaymin-S. Against Deoxys-A, Mamoswine will generally come across two scenarios when using Earthquake, both of which will likely prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Deoxys-A may decide to use Superpower or Grass Knot, putting you into the KO range of ExtremeSpeed. The other scenario is that Deoxys-A uses Stealth Rock, thus allowing you to finish it off with Ice Shard as it breaks your Focus Sash with ExtremeSpeed. Darkrai is also a real pain in the ass due to Dark Void.
Metagross @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 SpD
Adamant
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
Once again, we have another example of a common OU lead working well in Ubers. Metagross is able to smash min HP Deoxys-S with a combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch and knock out Max HP Deoxys-S about 60% of the time. Deoxys-A will never KO you with any move it has and will easily fall to two Bullet Punches. In many cases, Metagross can even set up Stealth Rock while simultaneously beating Deoxys-A. Thanks to Lum Berry, Darkrai's Dark Void will be useless, and you will always KO Darkrai with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch. Against Shaymin-S, it will only be able to 2HKO you with Earth Power, while you will KO with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch around 84% of the time. Metagross will falter against Groudon, Kyogre, and Dialga leads, though, as Metagross is unable to do a significant amount of damage to them (outside Explosion), and all are capable of doing a massive amount of damage back.
Lucario @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk /252 Spe
Adamant
-Close Combat
-ExtremeSpeed
-Payback
-Ice Punch / Counter / Magic Coat
Much like in OU, Lucario can work well as a lead in Ubers. Payback may seem like a strange choice, but Lucario is able to defeat even max HP Deoxys-S with Payback + ExtremeSpeed. Against Deoxys-A, it's going to depend on what Deoxys-A does. if Deoxys-A sets up Stealth Rock, Lucario will defeat it. If Deoxys-A uses Superpower or Fire Punch, Lucario will lose. Close Combat easily 2HKOs Dialga and Kyogre (be warned, Choice Scarf Kyogre will prevail).
Lucario has 3 main problems, each of which can be potentially dealt with depending on your last move. Shaymin-S can be a problem due to its ability to 2HKO you with Earth Power. With Ice Punch, you will easily OHKO it (with the bonus of it being unable to flinch you thanks to Inner Focus). Darkrai can do the usual 'break your Focus Sash and put you to sleep' routine with Dark Void. However, if you have Magic Coat, you can predict that and give Darkrai a taste of his own medicine! Be warned, though, some Darkrai may opt to Focus Blast. Finally, Groudon is never 2HKOed by Close Combat, while it will have no problems crushing you with Earthquake. Although it's risky, if you can predict when Groudon uses Earthquake, you can destroy it with Counter.
Infernape @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 Atk/46 SpA/ 212 Spe
Naive
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
Infernape may seem like an odd choice for a Uber lead, but its ability to set up Stealth Rock efficiently while coming back in late game to do some damage is quite desirable, just like in OU. U-turn is an incredible move, allowing Infernape to break Focus Sashes while getting itself out of the way of unfavorable match-ups. Deoxys-S and -A are beaten by U-turning (breaking their Sashes) to either a faster Scarfer such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, or Mewtwo, or a priority user, such as Scizor or Rayquaza, to finish it off. This way, Deoxys will only manage 1 layer of entry hazards. Be warned, though, Infernape will lose its Focus Sash! Groudon is 2HKOed by Fire Blast, while Dialga is 2HKOed by Close Combat. Scizor, Tyranitar, and Forretress are all beaten handily by this thing. Kyogre can beat Infernape, but the flaming chimp will still accomplish its primary goal of setting up Stealth Rock (assuming that Kyogre is a Thunder Wave lead, it will take around 45%-52% from Close Combat). Watch out for Darkrai (Dark Void) and Shaymin-S (beats you 60% of the time thanks to Air Slash).
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
EVs: 252 HP/80 Atk/ 172 SpD for Crunch
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD for Payback
Brave / Adamant
- Crunch / Payback
- Superpower
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast / Stone Edge
Tyranitar is such a versatile Pokemon that it has not one, but TWO lead sets, and here's one of them. This Tyranitar lead will always OHKO max HP Deoxys-S with Crunch, and since Tyranitar starts a sandstorm, it will KO Deoxys-S before it can even set up Spikes! The real secret to this set's success is the heavy Special Defense investment and the Lum Berry. Thanks to the sandstorm, Darkrai is unable to OHKO Tyranitar with Focus Blast, while Tyranitar will always OHKO Darkrai with Superpower after Sandstorm damage. Shaymin-S will 2HKO you at best, allowing you to either set up Stealth Rock or take a chance and OHKO it with Stone Edge if you have it. While you won't be beating Kyogre, it is never able to OHKO you regardless of whether it is the Choice Scarf lead or the Lum Berry lead. Dialga is never able to 3HKO Tyranitar unless it has Aura Sphere, while you can either set up Stealth Rock or 3HKO Dialga with Superpower. Finally, with Fire Blast, you can easily torch Forretress and Scizor switch-ins. Something to note is that this Tyranitar will often lose to Deoxys-A due to being OHKOed by Superpower.
Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
Hasty
- Crunch / Payback
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock / Low Kick
This Tyranitar takes a different approach to leading, sacrificing its bulk in exchange for becoming an excellent anti-lead. Crunch will always OHKO min HP Deoxys-S; however, it will fail to OHKO max HP Deoxys-S. This is where Payback can be used, as it will always OHKO max HP Deoxys-S. Be warned, though, as outside of this, Crunch is often better due to this Tyranitar being able to outspeed several slower base 90s. Regardless of which move you choose, Tyranitar will always defeat Deoxys-A thanks to its Focus Sash and Sandstream. The other defining feature of this set is the emphasis on Special Attacks. With this heavy investment in Special Attack, Tyranitar will always OHKO Shaymin-S with Ice Beam and be able to deal such a massive amount of damage to lead Groudon that it will likely be crippled for the rest of the match, if not outright 3HKOed. Thanks to the heavy investment in Speed, Tyranitar will outrun most defensive Groudon; thus, Tyranitar can potentially cripple a Groudon after it disposes of the lead. Flamethrower's main purpose is to fry Forretress and Scizor switch-ins that think they are safe. The final move will determine how well you do against Dialga leads. If you choose Stealth Rock, you won't do much to Dialga besides set up your entry hazards. If you choose Low Kick, you will usually 2HKO Dialga. No matter what move you choose, this Tyranitar will have huge problems with Darkrai as most other Focus Sash leads do. Kyogre will also brush off most of your assaults here, and thus the best you can do is set up Stealth Rock or switch out. (Note to the readers: I am still testing other EV spreads for this!)
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs:172 SpA/152 SpD/184 Spe
Hasty
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Ice Shard / Explosion
Cloyster may seem like a strange idea as an Uber lead, but its movepool makes it perfect for the job. Ice Beam will usually 2HKO minimum HP Deoxys-S, but Cloyster's real trump card against Deoxys-S is Rapid Spin, which makes setting up on Cloyster almost useless. Additionally, Cloyster's STAB Ice Beam will often make Giratina-O too uncomfortable to switch in. The Special Defense EVs allow Cloyster to always survive two Deoxys-S Shadow Balls as well. Ice Beam will easily 2HKO Groudon (luckily, lead Groudon will almost never 2HKO even Hasty Cloyster with Earthquake). Thanks to Cloyster's Speed investment, you will outspeed most Dialga, Groudon, and Kyogre leads (barring Choice Scarf, which will be a problem), allowing you to set up two layers of Toxic Spikes, which are far deadlier in Ubers than other tiers. If you don't need that, Spikes are fine too. A word of warning: If your main objective with lead Cloyster is to Rapid Spin for something like Ho-oh, Dialga leads will be a problem because Cloyster has no chance of actually KOing Dialga in time; thus if it Rapid Spins, it will be forced to sacrifice itself against Dialga. If you choose Ice Shard as your last move, you can 2HKO Shaymin-S leads. Vs. Deoxys-A, the winner will depend on the Deoxys-A's moveset and what it does. If Deoxys-A uses Stealth Rock, Ice Beam + Ice Shard will defeat it. If Deoxys-A uses Shadow Ball, Cloyster will still have a chance of living through ExtremeSpeed. If Deoxys-A uses Superpower, however, Cloyster is pretty screwed. Like most Focus Sash leads, Cloyster really hates Darkrai too.
Note that I am still testing EV spreads and natures for this set. I am at least going to test a Mild version of this. Feel free to suggest EV spreads if you can think of good ones! I will also be testing more moves on Cloyster, such as Hidden Power Fire for Forretress switch-ins and Rock Blast for Ho-oh switch-ins.
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spe
Adamant
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Payback
- Ice Shard
- Explosion / Rapid Spin
This Cloyster lead takes a slightly different approach than the last one. Rather than focusing on Rapid Spin to defeat Deoxys-S, this Cloyster uses the combination of Payback and Ice Shard, which will always OHKO min HP Deoxys-S. Unfornately, you only have around around a 37% chance of defeating max HP Deoxys-S, so you have the option of still carrying Rapid Spin just in case. Thanks to the investment in Attack and Payback, Cloyster will no longer have to resort to Exploding on Latias and Latios in case they try and set up on Cloyster (provided that you still have your sash intact). You have no chance of 2HKOing Groudon this time, so Cloyster will instead just have to set up two layers of Toxic Spikes. If you are using Spikes, Cloyster can set up all three layers on Groudon should it decide to stay in, unless it has and uses a special Fire-type attack or Stone Edge. Otherwise, this preforms similarly against the top 7 leads when compared to the mixed Cloyster lead.
Qwilfish @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spe
Adamant
- Payback
- Aqua Jet
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Destiny Bond / Explosion
In case you may have noticed, this looks and plays a lot like the physical Cloyster lead (it even has the same attack stat!). At first it may seem outclassed, as it lacks Rapid Spin and actually loses to Shaymin-S. However, Qwilfish has some very specific advantages over Cloyster. First of all, Swift Swim is a very helpful ability. Thanks to it, this means that you will always get two layers of Toxic Spkes up (barring parahax) against Kyogre, Choice Scarf or not. This also means that if Qwilfish has the disadvantage in the lead situation and you have Kyogre, it can later abuse its Speed to set up Toxic Spikes or use its other advantage over Cloyster, Destiny Bond. Thanks to Destiny Bond, if a lead such as Dialga decides to lay down Stealth Rock and then attack, you can potentially get a surprise kill. If that doesn't suit your style, Explosion is still a worthy move. Qwilfish can also absorb Toxic Spikes, which is a very rare but helpful quality in the Ubers metagame. Finally, unlike Cloyster, Qwilfish is not weak to Stealth Rock, which, when combined with rain support, can make Qwilfish more useful if you face a lead that beats you (Darkrai, Shaymin-S, and Deoxys-A mainly) Something to note against Deoxys-A is that if it does not have Shadow Ball or Thunder, Qwilfish may actually defeat it. I may test more bulky Qwilfish spreads later to see if I can beat Deoxys-A consistently, but don't count on it. Otherwise, Qwilfish plays in a very similar manner that physical Cloyster does.
Froslass @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
Hasty
- Spikes
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Shard
- Destiny Bond / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire / Taunt
At first, Froslass may seem like a bad Deoxys-S, but it has several advantages over it, especially if you have a Stealth Rock user somewhere on your team. One of the things Froslass can do that Deoxys-S normally can't (without a Choice Scarf at least) is not get totally screwed over by Shaymin-S, as Ice Shard will 2HKO it. With Shadow Ball + Ice Shard, you will always defeat min HP Deoxys-S, though sadly you don't have a chance of KOing max HP Deoxys-S before it gets up two entry hazards. Deoxys-A has no chance against Froslass, because thanks to its Ghost-typing, Deoxys-A can't finish it off with ExtremeSpeed. Froslass will have no problems getting at least two layers of Spikes up against Dialga, Kyogre (unless it has Choice Scarf as usual), and Groudon. Much like other Focus Sash leads, Froslass hates Darkrai's guts.
That Ghost-typing is helpful in another way, as this means that Forretress can't just Rapid Spin your Spikes away. However, unless you have Hidden Power Fire or Taunt, it will still be able to set up on you. Destiny Bond is also a very handy move for the last slot, because with Froslass's 110 base Speed, it is fully capable of screwing over something like a Bulk Up Dialga locked into Outrage. If you simply want to 2HKO Groudon or be able to revenge kill some Rayquaza without a Dragon Dance and non Scarfed Garchomps, feel free to use Ice Beam.
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Credits
This area is reserved for crediting the people who help made this thread possible and who have contributed positively to the thread, whether they contributed a set that has been put in the section of approved sets, or have greatly contributed to the quality of the thread.
Theorymon for making this thread.
reachzero for writing the first paragraph of the introduction.
Jibaku for checking over the thread before it was posted.
bojangles for checking over the thread before it was posted, and spell checking
Fireburn for writing the Infernape lead set
jumpluff for spell checking the thread.
Eo Ut Mortus for spell checking the thread