Project Uber

[Veedrock]

Concerning Kingdra:

Swift Swim, and to a lesser extent Dragon Dance, are the selling points. Ubers is really speed heavy (every given pokemon can be scarved) and that's why I think Kingdra would be an excellent Ubers candidate. While testing is difficult because I do poorly in the tier, the only real problem with Kingdra so far is not having time to DD because, well, it can't really force anything out. Anything it comes in on knows it's going down and the opponent allows that. As such, Rayquaza is the single biggest block due to Air Lock (Groudon can eat Draco Meteor).

 

[twash]

Why don't you guys start posting logs? Surely it would give more confirmation, and other users more information. Maybe just the first 15 you play, not just picking out the ones where it works well.

 

[Veedrock]

I love the idea of posting logs (and having unbiased ones at that), but 2 problems come up.

1) Some of us aren't the best uber battlers, but I suppose that weeds out bad testers (crap!). If I'm getting 6-0'd by a Scarf Dialga, the log doesn't prove anything for or against it.

2) Some of us aren't the best uber battlers, and if I 6-0 some scrub with Scarf Dialga, those logs will show nothing of value either.

 

[twash]

That's why 15 logs come in handy, there should be enough reliability to make a decision. Nobody will be looking to nitpick at whether you should have switched in a Rayquaza to Groudon's CB Earthquake instead of going to Dialga expecting Stone Edge, but people will be looking to see if the set works well. If you aren't a "good" battler and it shows in the log, then people won't make assumptions whether the set works or not until more testing takes place.

Plus, if either of those scenarios happened, you wouldn't make an assumption on whether the set works or not anyway...so there's no loss really. People can always ask for more logs / test it themselves.

 

[Misa]

Why don't you guys start posting logs? Surely it would give more confirmation, and other users more information. Maybe just the first 15 you play, not just picking out the ones where it works well.

Wouldn't that require ridiculously long (and possibly double-posting) posts in this thread? Usually, battle logs tend to stretch out a couple of pages, and I'm not even sure posting logs is even necessary to show if a certain pokemon works or not.

 

[twash]

Wouldn't that require ridiculously long (and possibly double-posting) posts in this thread? Usually, battle logs tend to stretch out a couple of pages, and I'm not even sure posting logs is even necessary to show if a certain pokemon works or not.

Using

code tags

makes it much easier as it makes the logs fit into a small "box" with a scroll bar (as shown above, but with a scroll bar when long logs are posted). This would make it much easier -- the post would be a lot shorter, not that it should really matter provided the necessary information gets portrayed in an easy-to-read manner?

It was only a suggestion as a couple of people started voicing concerns over the "testing".

 

[6A9 Ace Matador]

Add in Lanturn, and I'll be testing it if possible. He counter's Kyogre like a pro e.t.c.

 

[kd24]

tbh, i dont think logs are absolutely neccesary for this uber project. As long as we show how the set works or takes care of things, there really isn't much of a problem. I think we have a fine team of people who can look at sets and test them personally or judge whether its useless or not.


if these sets are going to C+C though (which i think some might be), then logs would be helpful i guess to make sure a set works.

 

[Jibaku]

I've used (and posted) a SubSeed set a couple of pages back. Tested most of my things under my Densha Otaku account.

I figured you might be densha otaku, since densha = train and otaku = nerd? Close enough. Nice battling you (with Shaymin-S haxing my Bliss consistently).

Anyways I'd like to turn my attention to Bologo's Absol, since it's really the only one with a description here, after Hitmontop.

While it is nice to be able to stop Dark Void, how exactly are you going to deal with Trick? Your response was "let it take the Scarf" but now you're stuck with two options. Switch and have someone get Dark Voided, or stay and get OHKOed by Focus Blast. Once you post the Absol set in this thread the surprise is gone, and people can catch into it and cause it to lose its value.

Short comment, but meh it expresses my concern

Also to other people, I wish you'd all take the time to think before getting carried away. I don't like to point out people but the Blaziken set that was mentioned earlier (Sub/HP Ice/Fire Blast/Agility) is an example of not putting thought into it. If you're attempting a sweep, why go with something that can be walled very easily (Kyogre, Lati@s, Palkia, Blissey to name a few) ? To add to that Blaziken has no staying power so it's not swapping in easily.

Add in Lanturn, and I'll be testing it if possible. He counter's Kyogre like a pro e.t.c.

I don't think counter like a pro is a good phrase for it. Specs Surf/Water Spout does a lot to Lanturn and unless you use Specs CM Kyogre beats Lanturn

I don't think logs are a necessity unless you feel that the set is quite shady and therefore feel the need to show proof. I say that if possible, you should have logs, but they're not necessary.

 

[locopoke]

Concerning Kingdra:

Swift Swim, and to a lesser extent Dragon Dance, are the selling points. Ubers is really speed heavy (every given pokemon can be scarved) and that's why I think Kingdra would be an excellent Ubers candidate. While testing is difficult because I do poorly in the tier, the only real problem with Kingdra so far is not having time to DD because, well, it can't really force anything out. Anything it comes in on knows it's going down and the opponent allows that. As such, Rayquaza is the single biggest block due to Air Lock (Groudon can eat Draco Meteor).

I think you made some good points but overall it'd be kind of hard to pull Kingdra off. First of all, like you mentioned above, nothing fears Kingdra enough to actually switch out and give you a chance to Dragon Dance, which means your best bet would be attempting to possibly use Wobbuffet and Encore something, and then switch out to Kingdra in rain and start Dragon Dancing. But really, I don't think it's any better than Palkia or even Rayquaza. It has extra speed, and that's it. It's stats are average, and it's hard to set up with it. But if it works for you then go figure. I may test it a little bit, it sounds interesting and I'd like to see for myself as to what it can do.

 

[Matthew]

Well we have to all remember that with Wobbuffet we can set up pokemon which otherwise would have an amazingly hard time to do so. Lucario is a given point, so next free moment I get I'll go test a KingWobb team.

 

[locopoke]

Well we have to all remember that with Wobbuffet we can set up pokemon which otherwise would have an amazingly hard time to do so. Lucario is a given point, so next free moment I get I'll go test a KingWobb team.

I've also used Umbreon to set help Lucario set up at times, but it was just the standard Mean Look/Baton Pass set, and there were many flaws, but I may look back at that after my Hitmontop testing.

edit: hah gen finally found an appropriate avatar

 

[Colloquy]

Okay, so. After extensive testing of Jolteon under the nickname of "Dividie", I got to around 1400 rating in one day. This isn't as much of an achievement, though, as it's incredibly easy to ladder in Ubers if you know a bit about it.

Anyway, this is the set I've been using.

Jolteon @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Yawn
- Thunder
- Baton Pass

Simple, really. Come in on an Electric-type move from Kyogre, then set up a Substitute on the switch. Yawn certain things like Groudon, then Subsitute again. Then Baton Pass out to SD Rayquaza or CM Taunt Mewtwo and destroy.

This is best used with Wobbufett support to take out Blissey, and Kyogre to provide rain for accurate Thunders. I guess Charge Beam could be used if you're up for Baton Passing it to something like CM Kyogre.

But, overall, Jolteon has been rather "meh", and still needs more testing.

 

[MagicMon]

I'm now testing Kningdra. I hope to get results in.

 

[gengod]

I just want to point out, a lot of the pokemon you currently have that "work", work being a very relative term at that are not actually good to use on teams for the most part aside from the surprise factor and they generally won't work against good players.

Things like Parasect, Honchcrow, Seaking and Hitmontop will never be successful. They may fill little particular niches in certain teams but the majority of the time they are going to be dead weight on your team and simply just a gimmick.

You should also probably define what you mean by "work" in the first place as well.

 

[Matthew]

Yes, I will work on the term a little more.

 

[Jibaku]

I suggest that you separate the sets that works and the ones that are being tested, so that I don't get confused at your list

Anyways, I recommend the removal of a few Pokemon

Hitmontop: Don't even try this. It loses to everything except Darkrai, gets walled very easily by Lugia, Giratina, Wobbuffett and Groudon. It can't revenge kill Rayquaza because of ExtremeSpeed, and the damage calcs doesn't prove much-the damage Hitmontop is doing it miniscule in comparison to what they'll do back to it.

Shedinja should also be removed. It can be a threat, yes, but in a metagame filled with Stealth Rock and all, it's not going anywhere really. In rare cases it can quickly sweep a team because nothing can touch it, but more often than not it's dead weight

I'm a bit torn on the Absol set because it actually still loses to Trick Darkrai.

Toxicroak imo needs to go. I've seen a few in action and more often than not they get dehydrated in burning sunlight and mercilessly beaten by Groudon or the like. Water absorption is nice but remember Kyogre's not all about water absorbing and Groudon's really common nowadays. I'd probably just use Lucario if I wanted to. But that's just me on this one

 

[locopoke]

So far I've been testing Hitmontop for 3 or 4 days now, and I have to say it hasn't been pretty. Though Hitmontop is able to quickly kill off some things with one or two Bulk Up's, the amount of Pokemon that completely wall him is far greater. He can't touch Giratina and Lugia, and Mach Punch does too little in Ubers, even with boosts. I may test a bit more, but I think I've seen all there is to see. Bulk Up Hitmontop (not sure about TechniTop), just isn't right for Ubers. I may see how TechniTop works, but I doubt it'll be much different.

 

[sheep]

Gen, I will be testing Clefable, if that's ok.

 

[Matthew]

Sheep you can test anything you want. Just make sure you post the set and tell us a bit about it.

 

[Iris]

If its ok, i will test shedinja. I think it will be more useful in Ubers since most stealth rocks laid down are suicide leads from deoxys with other rocks coming from Groudon and Forretress. Of course you have to use with a rapid spinner but here's my set im going to test

Shedinja
252 attack/ 252 speed.
Adamant
Focus Sash/lum berry
Protect
Will-O-wisp
X scissor
Shadow Sneak

Also for skarmory, i use 252 hp/ 252 defense impish as a physical wall with the standard:
Leftovers
Drill peck/ brave bird
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roost

Im sure there is a more viable set but this one is pretty basic that works well against: Non Mix-rayquaza, NOn fire punch groudon, Garchomp, bulk up dialga, most giratina (if you don't mind being burned). All these you can set up spikes easily.

 

[Farewell]

Does anyone believe Gallade can be useful?

With a Lum Berry, it can handle Lead Darkrai (Close Combat on the Dark Void or Trick). With a Life Orb + Swords Dance, it can deal significant damage to enemy Psychic/Ghosts like Lati@s with Night Slash or Ice Punch, or (perhaps Shadow Sneak?).

In Comparison to Lucario, Gallade can use a Jolly Nature and have only 1 less Attack point than an Adamant Lucario, and still have 5 more Speed points. Also, both pack a STAB Close Combat, and whilest Shadow Sneak is only half the power of Extreme Speed in terms of priority moves, the number of Psychics and Ghosts around allow for it to be useful, (effectively making it 80 Base Power). Additionally, since Shadow Sneak has both priority and coverage on Psychic / Ghost types, Gallade has more freedom to choose its other moves (Ice Punch, Destiny Bond, status, etc.) Lucario, on the other hand, would have to select between Crunch, Ice Punch, or Stone Edge on its final slot to cover common Ghosts or Psychics.

It's nice Special Defense also helps to make up for its low HP (to an extent).

Perhaps someone (I cannot) can test this moveset:

Gallade: Lum Berry / Life Orb
4 HP 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly

~ Swords Dance
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Sneak / Night Slash
~ Ice Punch / Destiny Bond

Use Gallade as a Lead if you are using Lum Berry in order to counter opposing Lead Darkrais, or use Life Orb with some Wobbaffet support to become an all around sweeper with Swords Dance, (similar to Lucario). Another advantage over Lucario is not worrying about lead Darkrai's Focus Blast, as Lucario's weakness wont allow him the grace to pull off the same set as a Lum Berry lead.


Also more bulky sets could be made with SpD investment and perhaps W-o-w or Thunder Wave, or even Focus Sash Destiny Bond sets. I just thought I would mention Gallade since he offers some strong Attack power with STAB Close Combat, a useful priority move, and stellar coverage that could be an alternative to Lucario due to its wider movepool.

 

[Thorns]

Exeggutor has been proven to be a deadly threat under the Sun, and is probably one of the most threatening Sun sweepers in Ubers. It deals massive damage to almost anything - it's the strongest Chlorophyll special sweeper.

Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot (Solarbeam would be outdamaged most times)
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Obviously this is the set suggested in the analysis, but it's perfect. With Groudon support, you can take out stuff like Palkia with a nice strong Grass Knot, and run over Kyogre even if it comes in with a Grass Knot. Sleep Powder means you can cripple threats like Dialga. Rayquaza is met with a swift Hidden Power [Ice]. Explosion is a last ditch attempt to score a kill. Obviously this set doesn't touch Giratina, but that's to be expected.

I'm updating with logs after I battle with this a few.

 

[Darkmalice]

Also for skarmory, i use 252 hp/ 252 defense impish as a physical wall with the standard:
Leftovers
Drill peck/ brave bird
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roost

Im sure there is a more viable set but this one is pretty basic that works well against: Non Mix-rayquaza, NOn fire punch groudon, Garchomp, bulk up dialga, most giratina (if you don't mind being burned). All these you can set up spikes easily.

Ok, I'll post my Skarmory sets. I have two sets; a physically defensive, and a specially defensive one.

Nature: Impish
Item: Leftovers
Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind
Stealth Rock / Toxic
EVs - 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
OR
EVs - 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SDef

A description of this set is in the Uber Discussion thread. I'll mention some things that I didn't discuss before. Toxic is an option over Stealth Rock, for there are many pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock. Toxic can be used to hit incoming Kyogre and other pokemon that will definitely force Skarmory out.

The first set of EVs is easier to use, and is best suited for physical attackers, mainly Groudon, Rayquaza and Garchomp. The second set utilises Skarmory's fantastic Steel typing on the special sides of things, making him a great switch-in to locked Dragon attacks, and in emergencies, Latias that lack Thunder. I prefer the first set, but I'm still posting the second EV spread, because Jibaku stated he has used it well. And it still easily walls Groudon and Garchomp. Rayquaza is slightly harder.

Here's some damage calculations, just to get a feel of the sets:

Impish 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
+1 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Outrage: 40.42% 43.71% 47.60%. With SR down and one turn of Leftovers recovery, that's a 2.04% chance of a 2HKO
+2 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Dragon Claw: 35.93% 38.62% 42.22%
+2 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Waterfall: 47.90% 51.80% 56.59%. With one turn of Leftovers recovery and no SR, that's a 30.51% chance of a 2HKO.
LO Adamant Groudon's Stone Edge: 30.24% 32.63% 35.63%
LO Adamant Groudon's Fire Punch: 67.07% 72.46% 79.04%
Timid Palkia's Spacial Rend: 27.84% 30.24% 32.93%
Specs Timid Palkia's Spacial Rend: 41.62% 44.91% 49.10%. With SR down and one turn of Leftovers recovery, that's a 14.66% chance of a 2HKO.
108 SpA (standard) Timid Latias' Dragon Pulse: 32.93% 35.93% 38.92%
Timid Palkia's Surf in the rain: 83.53% 90.12% 98.20%


Impish 252 HP / 16 Def / 244 SDef
+1 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Outrage: 46.71% 50.90% 55.39%. With SR down and one turn of Leftovers recovery, that's a 99.41% chance of a 2HKO
+2 LO Adamant Rayquaza's Dragon Claw: 41.62% 44.91% 49.10%. With SR down and one turn of Leftovers Recovery, that's a 14.66% chance of a 2HKO.
LO Adamant Groudon's Stone Edge: 34.73% 37.72% 41.02%
LO Adamant Groudon's Fire Punch: 77.84% 84.43% 92.22%
Timid Palkia's Spacial Rend: 19.76% 21.56% 23.35%
Specs Timid Palkia's Spacial Rend: 32.93% 35.63% 38.62%
Timid Palkia's Surf (no rain): 39.82% 43.11% 47.01%
108 SpA (standard) Timid Latias' Dragon Pulse: 23.35% 25.45% 27.84%
Scarf Lead Mewtwo's Focus Blast: 44.31% 48.20% 52.40%. This will never 2HKO without SR thanks to Leftovers. (With SR and one turn of Leftovers, it's 77.19%, but remember that this Mewtwo is used as a lead)
LO 0 SpA Hasty Rayquaza's Flamethrower: 75.45% 82.04% 89.22% (In other words, avoid Fire attacks, even in the rain)
Standard Latias' Thunder: 91.62% 98.80% 107.78% (Never try to take a Thunder)



Now, I'll start testing Mamoswine. I made this up using theorymon, and it has NOT been tested yet. I will test it over the next few days; I'm just posting it in case anyone wants to try it for themselves:
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Impish
Item: Leftovers
Earthquake
Ice Shard
Avalance
Filler - Superpower, Toxic or Stealth Rock could do
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def

This Mamoswine is very physicall defensive, but only a Bold Mamoswine can switch into a LO Adamant Rayquaza Outrage and always survive, even with SR in play. In turn, Mamoswine's Ice Shard deals 90.03% - 107.12% to 0 HP / Def neutral nature Rayquaza, which means Rayquaza will always be OHKOed after one turn of LO recoil.

 

[Erazor]

Exeggutor has been proven to be a deadly threat under the Sun, and is probably one of the most threatening Sun sweepers in Ubers. It deals massive damage to almost anything - it's the strongest Chlorophyll special sweeper.

Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot (Solarbeam would be outdamaged most times)
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Obviously this is the set suggested in the analysis, but it's perfect. With Groudon support, you can take out stuff like Palkia with a nice strong Grass Knot, and run over Kyogre even if it comes in with a Grass Knot. Sleep Powder means you can cripple threats like Dialga. Rayquaza is met with a swift Hidden Power [Ice]. Explosion is a last ditch attempt to score a kill. Obviously this set doesn't touch Giratina, but that's to be expected.

I'm updating with logs after I battle with this a few.

But before you use HP Ice, Rayquaza will just OHKO you with Outrage. Air lock removes the effect of Sun, so no Chlorophyll.