Research Week #1: Camerupt, Swanna, Tropius and Zebstrika

[skylight]

Hey guys! Basically, I'll be bringing back this thing which was really popular from the past. Since DTC summed it up so well back then I'm just going to c/p his introduction/rules and a little extra at the bottom, since some things will be changed this time around, so make sure you read the thread and get to posting/laddering~

Introduction:

NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymonning. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". If you want to suggest something, send a forum Private Message to me. Also, Pokemon from past research weeks will be used again simply because the metagame has obviously changed since this project was last brought about.

The four Pokemon for this week (17/06/13 - 24/06/13):

Questions to consider when posting here:

How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused as well!

The Research Week Challenge:

• Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
• Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70.
• Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
• If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
• In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Week will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group (yes, I'm aware I'm c/ping this but I'm actually going to actively update the hub, so!)

Every one or two days during the week I'll post questions which I expect you guys to be involved in. If you have any questions about this project, feel free to send me a PM, otherwise just compete in the challenge, and actively post here too discussing the sets throughout the week. Remember that the NU mods keep an eye over everything even when they're asleep and you could get one step closer to earning CC if you actively post here and keep up discussion. n_n

 

[skylight]

Hall of Fame

Hide

Gold Class: 2000+

Silver Class: 1850-1999

KryptoKrunch / magtabuzz | 1823 | 83 | 1920 + 69

WhiteDMist / Jabberwak | 1882 | 86.2 | 1980 + 70

Axaj / zeeeeeeeebra | 1772 | 80 | 1871 + 70

Othesemo / maurelius | 1758 | 79 | 1854 + 68

Bronze Class: 1700-1849

 

[Lasagne]

I'm planning on using a team with Swanna and Zebstrika. I will be utilising the following sets:

Swanna @ Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Substitute
- Roost

Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I definitely have an idea of what sort of team I'm going to build. Planning to base it around Volturn. I'm also utilising Swanna's electric weakness and Zebstrika's immunity to create a pseudo Gyaravire core.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Zebstrika was known for being the poke that could handle all of the dropdowns (I guess except munchlax...), but really never became that much popular. I think zebstrika is an interesting poke to use. Choice scarf Swanna is also a very enticing option that outspeeds the 95 speed mark, and flying stab is very effective move (though damage will quickly rack up).

That being said, if I have the opportunity to use tropius, I'm going to use that. I really love using its sub seed set, as even though it takes 25% switching in, it does not have to worry about any spikes and has a better move to hit grass types than when I use hp ice sub seed exeggutor. I also like using a bulky DD chesto harvest set back in the day, though it would probably be too difficult to get up the boosts than before. I'll edit when I decide on a tropius set.

 

[Ashley11]

Yes ive been hoping these will start back up. Reserving this post for me I'm busy right now. Ill probably be using all of these pokemons just on different teams.

Ive never tried tropius but I have really good experiences with camerupt and swanna though. Swanna is a great rain Sweeper with her perfectly accurate hurricane in the rain and can use a hydration rest to keep her health up. Camerupt is great as a tank and with solid rock he can really achieve something by getting up stealth rocks and hitting hard with nice dual STAB. Ill post more later like I said.

 

[Explorer]

If you were to somehow provide Sun and Trick Room support for Camerupt, it would be a monster with great attacking stats and moves that utilize Sun:

Camerupt (M) @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD or 4 Atk
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 0 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power/Earthquake
-Solarbeam
-Hidden Power Ice/Rock Slide

Its coverage options really are pretty nice. Even the one EdgeQuake resist in NU, Torterra, will almost never switch in on Camerupt fearing STAB Fire Blast, and common Water-types like Samurott and Seismitoad quake in the fear of a boosted Solarbeam. I would need to test this...

 

[WhiteDMist]

I think I will play with Swanna this time. I will be using the alt Jabberwak.

Swanna @ Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Hurricane
- Surf

It is a pretty standard set, but since Swanna is down in the PU tier I felt it was worth playing with a bit. While I miss the power of Modest, a Timid nature is pretty much required to make use of Swanna's nice base 98 Speed. With the metagame revolving so much around the base 95 Speed tier, Swanna actually becomes a decent option to revenge kill them (if they aren't Scarfed at least). It also can take one unboosted Megahorn from Scolipede and KO back with Hurricane (most Scolipede only run Aqua Tail as their coverage move of choice).

While I won't list my team until the end of the week, it is a semi-Rain team that makes use of the Rain Swanna provides. I suppose I could have run a SubRoost set, which I have used in the past to good effect. However, Rain has always been an effective strategy and makes full use of Swanna's good traits. Since I am not filling my team with just Swift Swim Pokemon, I have to get used to not merely setting up and then outspeeding my opponents all the time (base 98 is great, but still misses out on many notable Pokemon like Swellow). My question for everyone is: Does Swanna's lack of Swift Swim and Hydro Pump make it inferior as a Rain sweeper? Why or why not?

For the other Pokemon, I have a few comments and questions as well.

Zebstrika: Like many people, I have used Choice Scarf Zebstrika in the past and have found it to be rather weak. Very few players carelessly use Electric-type (or Grass-type actually) moves when they see you have a Zebstrika. While that creates a lot of prediction wars and mind games, it also means that Zebstrika's low power will rarely ever get boosted. Life Orb Zebstrika is decent, but I would say that Electrode gives it a run for its money with Hidden Power, Signal Beam, and Foul Play somewhat making up for the lack of coverage. I don't particularly care for the idea of a physical set because of Zebstrika's terrible coverage and still low power. Now the idea of it being a good answer to many of the drops is interesting, but it hasn't looked to have worked much in practice. My question for Zebstrika is: What role do you use Zebstrika as, and would you rather have used a similar Pokemon instead?

Camerupt: I don't have much experience with Camerupt (not even in PU), but I have heard good things about its Special Defensive set. I also know that it can be a vicious sweeper if it can set up Rock Polish, or a teammate sets up Trick Room. However, the few times I've used it, I wasn't impressed. So my question is: Is Camerupt effective in the current metagame with the return of Jynx bringing back an old niche of its?

Tropius: I have never used it, but I have faced it multiple times. While annoying, I must say that Exeggutor gives me far more problems. Even in general, Grass/Flying is a difficult defensive type to work with. Also, SubSeed isn't really a game changing strategy as far as I've seen (what with all the popular Grass-types, Magic Guard Pokemon, and multi-hit users). Tropius may have Air Slash to hit opposing Grass-types, but many can live a hit and hit back hard as well (with either Sludge Bomb or HP Ice). The things I have to ask are: Do people use Tropius for its synergy with their teams, or do they simply choose it to abuse SubSeed? Why use a SubSeeder over a more general utility Grass-type?

 

[Othesemo]

This sounds interesting. I think I'll try out using offensive Camerupt on the alt MAurelius.

Camerupt @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rock Polish
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Rock]

There have been a lot of cores with Camerupt posted in the NU Combinations thread. I think I'll be trying out Camerupt+Jynx, and seeing how well that works. More later, once I've actually tested it out a bit.

 

[Magical Magmortar]

I'll use Zebstrika with the alt ElectricZebraTime2!
It's going to be a Volturn team with Scarf Zebstrika and Primeape. This is the set:

Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I've never used Zebstrika before so this should be an awesome opportunity!

 

[ryan]

I think WhiteDMist has brought up some really good questions that I'd like to respond to before I start participating for this challenge. I haven't used any of these Pokemon too extensively since the start of this meta (though I've used all of them bar Tropius at least a few times), so while I have a general idea of their roles, I can't call upon my experience with them that well. But I think this is a good place to start before beginning the challenge.

Does Swanna's lack of Swift Swim and Hydro Pump make it inferior as a Rain sweeper? Why or why not?

I don't think that these things make Swanna an inferior rain sweeper; instead, they make it an entirely different kind of rain sweeper, relying on the boost of accuracy to Hurricane and the boost of power that Surf receives. Swanna is also really fast, even without Swift Swim, so it does still function really well as a Pokemon on rain times as well as outside of them. The good thing about Swanna is that for the most part, the checks and counters of Swanna are similar to those of Swift Swim sweepers, such as Ludicolo and Seismitoad. While normally this would be a reason NOT to use these Pokemon together, for rain teams, it's a massive benefit, as these Pokemon can wear down each others' checks and counters so that another Pokemon can sweep later on in the game.

While Swanna does function a lot differently than other rain sweepers, Hurricane is without a doubt a good enough reason to use it on a rain team.

What role do you use Zebstrika as, and would you rather have used a similar Pokemon instead?

Zebstrika functioned best for me as a Life Orb attacker because of the difficulties that WhiteDMist outlined in his post. It is just so weak without some kind of boosting item that a Choice Scarf, while allowing it to function as a potent revenge killer against more offensively oriented teams, becomes complete dead-weight against most balanced and defensive teams. It's very hit or miss, and I would just stronger prefer to use Life Orb.

I've used Electabuzz a few times, and I like its consistency over Zebstrika. With Eviolite, it has superior bulk. It loses out on some Speed, but it still beats out the base 95s. And it can take a hit far better than Zebstrika. While they both definitely have niches over one another (Zeb has Overheat, Electabuzz has higher SpA and Focus Blast, etc), I usually prefer Electabuzz. Oh, it also has Vital Spirit. GG JYNX

Is Camerupt effective in the current metagame with the return of Jynx bringing back an old niche of its?

Camerupt is undoubtedly an effective Pokemon right now, with the ability to check Jynx and some other special attackers (pretty much every Electric-type, for instance). It's a good specially defensive Stealth Rock setter as well. But there are definitely drawbacks to using Camerupt. One of the biggest issues I personally had with Camerupt when I used it last was its inability to switch into Normal and Flying-type attacks—one of the main niches of other Stealth Rock setters, such as Probopass and Regirock. Seismitoad also doesn't like to switch into these attacks so much, but it has some other benefits that Camerupt doesn't have (massive weakness to Grass>massive weakness to Water mainly because Grass—PEDE—resists are more common, better defensive stats, easier ability to go offensive, works well on rain, Water Absorb, etc etc etc). In the end, it's a Pokemon I need to test more before I give a solid opinion on it. Roar is cool though!

Do people use Tropius for its synergy with their teams, or do they simply choose it to abuse SubSeed? Why use a SubSeeder over a more general utility Grass-type?

I still like Exeggutor more for SubSeed + Harvest, but Raseri loves it so much I MIGHT try it out some time.

 

[Othesemo]

Ugh. Had a nasty run of bad luck, but here's a screenshot of my glicko2-

And, of course, my team.

Now, I’ll go ahead and be forthright, and say that Camerupt was a pleasant surprise. I’ve never used it on the ladder before, and it’s never given me trouble on other folk’s teams, so I was approaching it with a sort of polite incredulity. Sure, it’s got pretty nice attacking stats, but its bulk is terrible, and even after a rock polish, its speed is still mediocre. Nonetheless, it performed pretty damn well for me, all things considered, and I’d like to detail a few of my own theories as to why-

Firstly, I’ll touch on Camerupt’s negative traits. As mentioned earlier, 70/70/75 bulk is far from imposing, and he has a great deal of difficulty switching in on most attacks. This problem is compounded by its poor defensive typing, which grants it few useful resistances, and a weakness to both Ground and Water, two fairly popular offensive types. Its poor speed also means that it can’t even switch in on its resistances with any great regularity- virtually every other fire type in the tier can outspeed and smack it with a coverage move. Due to all of these factors, it’s incredibly difficult to switch Camerupt in multiple times throughout the match- once its in, it’s all or nothing.

On the other hand- Camerupt’s Fire/Ground typing does it many favors. Notably, it gives him an immunity to two of the most common status moves in the tier- Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave. It also gives him a handy immunity to any electric type attack, letting you take advantage of scarfed electrics (notably, Electabuzz, Zebstrika and the Rotoms). While it requires some prediction, it’s certainly possible to sneak in Camerupt for free, and an undamaged Camerupt can be extremely dangerous.

While we’re on the subject, Camerupt does have some excellent attacking stats. Equipped with a Modest nature, he boasts higher Special Attack than Charizard, and his STABs alone get substantially better coverage. While Charizard does have better bulk, and doesn’t have to spend a turn getting hit to sweep, both of these virtues are offset by a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock, which Camerupt does not share. As with Charizard, there are very few pokemon that enjoy switching into Camerupt’s attacks, and with entry hazard support (which Camerupt loves), that number is dropped to only a handful of pokemon, most of whom can be worn down through their lack of reliable recovery.

Camerupt’s greatest flaw, however, is its propensity for being revenge killed. Its poor bulk and typing leaves it vulnerable to every form of priority bar the rare bullet punch, as well as horribly weak to Aqua Jet. Additionally, while a Rock Polish can potentially let Camerupt outspeed everything from Serperior down, it remains powerless against scarfers, most of whom can simply force it out. As with many other fire types, the best defense against it is a vigorous offense, as even resisted hits coupled with Life Orb recoil will swiftly bring the camel down.

Where Camerupt shines, however, is against balanced teams. Against all out offensive teams, he’s more or less a dead weight, since every mon can outspeed and KO him before he has a chance to attack or set up. More defensively inclined mons, however, give him many opportunities to begin sweeping- again, a functional immunity to Burn and Paralysis is a godsend for the otherwise fragile camel. Once having secured a Rock Polish, many defensive pokes are 2HKOd at worst, and can often do little to prevent Camerupt from nabbing at least two or three kills, if not outright sweeping. The fact that a fair number of teams rely on status inducers to combat enemy sweepers is helpful as well.

In conclusion, while Camerupt isn’t quite in the same tier as Charizard, it is certainly a viable choice for those looking for a fire-type sweeper that doesn’t lose half its health whenever it switches in. With a bit of hazard support, it can become a potent threat that many teams are unprepared for, and I would certainly suggest that others try it out on their own.

 

[Fusxfaranto]

Going to try out Zebstrika, alt is zeeeeeeeebra. A long time ago I often used modest scarf Zebstrika for its ability to revenge weather sweepers, but its lack of power always disappointed me. This time, I'll be using LO instead; in this meta, its natural speed tier is much more valuable.

Zebstrika (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I often use Electabuzz to fill this role instead on my teams, so it'll be interesting to see how Zebstrika will differentiate itself.

 

[KryptoKrunch]

For this project, I'll be using Tropius under the alt. Magtabuzz. Tropius is a good defensive Grass type with above average HP and decent defenses. I'll be using the standard Subharvest set for Tropius: Air Slash/Leech Seed/Protect/Sub @ Sitrus Berry. Exeggutor is arguably better at the role, but the main reason I'm interested in using Tropius for this project is to really see how different or similar they play at the role. Tropius sports a significantly higher Sp. Def stat than that of Eggy and of course his Flying sub typing so it'll be interesting to actually use the banana dinosaur and see how it works as a defensive/Stally sort of 'Mon.

 

[WhiteDMist]

OK, so I'm tired of using this team (and laddering was dreary work). Hitting 1980 ± 70 is good enough for me. I've found that two stand-alone Rain sweepers may not make a full-on Rain team, but they compliment each other very well. My experience with Swanna was mostly positive since I didn't try to make it do what I felt it shouldn't do (tank hits). I enjoyed being able to outspeed non-Scarfed Jynx, Sawk, Haunter, and all of the walls of the tier (the latter of which were usually decent set-up fodder). I used a Hydration Rest set with a Timid Nature, so I needed Life Orb to make up for the lack of Ice coverage and average power. I originally tried Sharp Beak instead, but I found Hurricane to be rather weak without a larger boost, so I had to change over. I guess in the end it didn't matter much because Swanna lacked the bulk to take many average hits even without Life Orb recoil.

To answer my own question about Swanna, my experiences showed me that Swanna doesn't need a Speed boost because it is not meant to be a late-game cleaner (at least it wasn't on my team). Base 98 is excellent as it is, and the real advantage of it was the fact that it was fast BEFORE a Rain Dance. This made it usable even without Rain, mainly to revenge kill some Pokemon like CB Sawk and Haunter who threatened Ludicolo, etc. The lack of Hydro Pump's power can be off-putting, but Hurricane is already inaccurate enough outside of Rain. I actually appreciated having a more reliable STAB move because my Hurricane was just less so.

Now, the real draw of my chosen set is the fact that I could switch in on most walls, set up Rain, and then heal off any damage instantly. The boosted Surfs were also a huge bonus that the standard SubRoost set lacks, so I actually find this set to be more potent in general (it's a shame it doesn't stop confusion, but you can't have everything I suppose). The decreasing of Fire-type moves benefit Swanna defensively because they no longer broke through Swanna's pitiful defenses (seriously, a Flame Charge Flareon did nearly 30% to Swanna, which can add up with Stealth Rock damage and LO recoil). But that benefit was probably more significant to my team, who could use the Rain in less standard ways.

As for my team itself, it was pretty much thrown together in 5 minutes. It did surprisingly well, though going through the ladder isn't that impressive anymore. I won't go into detail since I didn't really care about defensive synergy, but I focused mostly on taking advantage of everything Swanna brought to the table.

Screenshot link

http://imgur.com/EkVhAbI

The Team

Swanna @ Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Hurricane
- Surf

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Scolipede @ Bug Gem
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Aqua Tail

Eelektross @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 140 Atk / 248 SAtk / 8 Spd
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Superpower
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower

Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

Jynx (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Trick

 

[skylight]

Imma reply to other stuff later but for now I want to discuss Camerupt. I've been using it for a bit in a team tonight, and I think it's really good for this meta. Specs + Eruption was good in last meta but I think it's even better now if it has the right support. For example, CM/TR/Baton Pass Mushy works perfectly with Camerupt, and it has max Speed to outspeed anything slow, to basically guarantee other than hazards it's super powerful and untouched. I mean after TR is up, then as long as you have a priority revenge killer it works really well. Has anyone else considered using Specs Rupt in this meta? Why do the other sets stand out more to you guys?

 

[Annoyer]

dino @ Lum Berry
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 184 HP / 104 Atk / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Seed Bomb
- Return / Earthquake / Substitute

uh this is a cool set i've been using for tropius; it starts out fairly weak but when it gets a lot of boosts (which it can verse stuff like alomomola and tangela and mons with no phazing moves). idk its not that great but i like it a lot better than subseed and this mon is just really good for absorbing any status moves in general. just dd up on something and use rest when necessary (i guess you could use roost instead if you dont like relying on harvest) the evs are enough to outspeed jynx after a boost and ko it with seed bomb after a boost and the rest is in hp for easier set up / taking hits better etc.

for camel, i've been using the regular specially defensive set with sr / lava plume / earth power / roar because its a good check to electrics/jynx but ive also been using an offensive sr set with sr / fire blast / earth power / filler (kaboom, hp grass/ice/electric, stone edge, or protect) which hits stuff really hard and wrecks stuff like alomomola on the switch in easily. the specs set owns but i dont really like its low speed which limits the spamming of eruptions.

 

[KryptoKrunch]

Just a quick question, our deviation has to lower than 70 right?

So far, I'm quite satisfied with Tropius. He's a decent defensive Pokemon and can annoy the hell out of some people real quick. His speed and Rock weakness sucks though and has 4MSS imo.

I'll post my full opinions when I'm done, but so far, Tropius isn't too bad.

 

[skylight]

Just a quick question, our deviation has to lower than 70 right?

So far, I'm quite satisfied with Tropius. He's a decent defensive Pokemon and can annoy the hell out of some people real quick. His speed and Rock weakness sucks though and has 4MSS imo.

I'll post my full opinions when I'm done, but so far, Tropius isn't too bad.

It can be exactly 70 if you want, too :) just no higher!

 

[Ashley11]

so right now i have been trying to work with swanna, and i saw that its attack stat was just as good as its sp atk. Sadly though, the only thing that is good with its attack is brave bird. but still, thinking about how swanna's bane of existence is special walls, i decided to try a mixed set that looks like this.

Swanna (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Surf
- Endeavor
- Roost
​

This set actually works surprisingly well. You can hit really hard with brave bird, and surf will still keep you strong against rocks. Endeavor can be a last resort getting damage on something before you die, and roost is there to recover health back from recoil. Many special walls try switch into swanna or stay in against swanna only to get destroyed by brave bird. Then a rock type will come in knowing that swanna doesnt have any physical attacking water type moves, and you destroy it with surf! Its really great imo, ill get some battles with it up later. I will also put up some calcs later but right now im busy.

As for laddering, im being hax-bombed really hard. Im still above 1800, but its just really haxxy. i might restart with a different alt or keep trudging along.​

 

[KryptoKrunch]

Ok, so I used Tropius on a defensive/semi-stallish team and it worked out quite well.

Here's a screenshot of my Glicko2 and my team:

http://pastebin.com/DPcRwmie

First off, Tropius is, as I expected, a solid defensive Pokemon(actually, a little better than expected). I actually ran Giga Drain over Protect after a few battles because I felt the extra recovery and being able to hit Water, Rock and Ground types SE was better in the long run.

Tropius' good bulk and stall playstyle is fun to play with and can be used to its fullest with the proper predictions and team support. For example, my Regirock carries T-Wave, slowing down opposing 'mons so Tropius can come in later, outspeed, and get in a Sub or leech seed. Thus, I found quite a few opportunities to get Tropius in rather safely and have him set-up on the the para'ed mon or get a free ls or sub on the switch. But even without T-Wave, I was able to get in Tropius and force a switch-out. So while T-Wave really helps this mon out, there are several mons such as Seismitoad(that doesn't carry Sludge Wave), Probopass, Bastidon etc. Furthermore, Tropius plays best against other slow-ish/stally Pokemon.

Futher speaking on support/how Tropius works with teammates. Alomomola was a good teammate for him. He can take Grass hits for days aimed at Alomomola and she can(quite easily) pass off wishes to the dinosaur. And finally, Heal Bell support from Mushy was more than welcome as Tropius hates any status, especially Toxic.

Tropius' typing is a mixed bag. On one hand, you have a nice ground immunity, fighting resist and a 4X Grass resist. On the other hand, a terrible 4x Ice weakness, Fire, Flying, Poison and Rock weakness really hurts. Most Water types carry an Ice move, so you're not always guaranteed to stall out a Water mon. The dinosaur's rock weakness is disappointing as it hinders your ability to keep coming in a taking resisted hits(and I didn't have a spinner on my team). What(somewhat) remedies his rock weakness is the fact that Sitrus berry can kick in and have your SR damage recovered and then some.

Tropius speed was a letdown as faster Pokemon can cripple you status or Taunt you before you can Sub up. Sometimes however, it did play in my favor with proper prediction as I was able to take a hit, consume the Sitrus Berry and proceed to Sub up. Tropius offenses, while uninvested, got the job done for the most part.

Compared to Exeggutor, Tropius has better overall bulk(Eggy has a disappointing Sp.Def stat), slightly lower speed stat, better secondary STAB to deal with opposing Grass types, less weaknesses and a SR weakness. Both Pokemon are pretty solid at their jobs. Both Pokemon should be considered for the role and I honestly think it's up to which mon would be a better fit for your team.

So to sum things up: here's a pros/cons list for Tropius:

+ Solid defensive Pokemon with good mixed bulk.
+ Stallish playstyle annoys the hell out of the foe while wearing his mon(s) down at the same time.
+ Isn't completely shutdown by opposing grass types with STAB Air Slash

-Weaknesses are disappointing namely Ice and Rock weaknesses.
- Slow speed stat
-Requires good team support to be used to the fullest.

Overall, I was satisfied with Tropius and quite surprised by his ability to take hits. He's decent Pokemon that should be considered for defensive and/or Stall teams. I'd actually vouch for Tropius being a C-Rank Pokemon, I think he fits under that description and is better than D-rank material.

 

[Fusxfaranto]

Finally made it, getting deviation low was painful >.>

The team I used

Metang @ Eviolite
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 56 SDef / 28 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Toxic
- Bullet Punch

Serperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Primeape @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- U-turn

Eelektross @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 172 HP / 84 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spd
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Foul Play
- Taunt

Zebstrika (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Zebstrika has impressed me. You wouldn't expect much from those stats, but having Overheat in its movepool makes such a difference. Being able to beat Scolipede and non-scarf Jynx or Charizard one-on-one is pretty great, but it really can't switch in on anything from anything aside from resisted attacks or weak priority. However, Lightningrod is another godsend, especially against choice-locked electric attacks. Really, the main reason to use Zebstrika is that it can get past many usual electric switchins (particularly grass types) with Overheat, but ground types and bulky normal types really cause issues, and can completely shut it down.

 

[Punchshroom]

Oh hey Axaj, I just fought you not too long ago!...What the hell were you thinking switching to Zebstrika when Scolipede was obviously going to skewer your weakened Eelektross??

Having used Zebstrika before, I have to say I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it's blazingly fast and can hit a lot of threats super effectively with its decent coverage. On the other hand, it's just so weak against neutral targets: 80 base Special Attack is seriously lackluster (Combusken and Floatzel hit harder, and even have stronger STAB!) and can fall short in KOing threats such as Sawks who haven't CCed. It's also a tad bit reliant on Overheat, which easily neuters it, so a good prediction with your Grass-type and bulky poke/Fire resist and all of a sudden Zebstrika hardly seems threatening at all, which forces it out of battle. Volt Switch does help with this a bit, but the issues are still there. Fraility does it no favors as it makes it difficult to get into battle.

Swanna is also frail, but compensates for that with recovery and the ability to shrug off status, meaning Swanna can switch into more things. Its ability and STABs are its biggest selling points, all of which are designed to function in Rain. Boosted Water STAB and powerful yet accurate Flying STAB, coupled with virtual status immunity are pretty wicked no matter you look at it, and it has the speed to pull it off well. The issue is that 87 base offenses are pretty poor for something with less than 100 base speed, and of course its defenses aren't great. However Swanna can either use a SubRoost set to buffer against faster threats or a Rain Dance + Rest set to give more defensive teams hell. Best yet, either set can still be used against the other playstyle: SubRoost can trouble defensive teams by blocking status even without Rain, while Rain boosted attacks are tough for offensive teams to switch into. As icing on the cake, Swanna is the only designated Rain sweeper that is unaffected by Toxic Spikes, so that is quite a boon.

 

[WhiteDMist]

@KryptoKrunch: Since you are the only one who has written up about SubSeed Tropius, I will ask you a couple of things about your experiences that I really want to know.

Does the offensive nature of the metagame hinder or otherwise affect the playability of the set? Do you feel like paralysis support is necessary for Tropius' effectiveness, or is Toxic support better to Speed up the draining process? Have you ever wished that you were using a standard Grass-type supporter/wall like Tangela rather than a SubSeeder (not in terms of how long it makes the battle, but how it affects your response to certain threats as well as tendency to switch in with it)? Finally, one of the problems with SubSeeders in general is the fact that they usually don't take out Pokemon, but rather force them to switch out to mitigate HP loss as much as possible (not a very productive method of winning, but still a possible win condition with good timing). This generally means that most offensive tiers/metagames (including NU) would prefer a Pokemon that can simply break through the opposing team rather than Leech Seed stalling shenanigans. Did YOU ever wish you were using a Pokemon that was doing something more productive overall?

 

[KryptoKrunch]

Does the offensive nature of the metagame hinder or otherwise affect the playability of the set?

It definitely hinders it. Jynx is terrifying to this set because she can easily come in and OHKO with her powerful Ice Beam. Ludicolo poses a threat because he can absorb LS and come back hard with his own Ice Beam. thankfully though, my more offensive team members such as Zangoose and Sap Sipper Miltank helped with those threats. And of course, paralyzing those foes with Regirock made Tropius' job easier.

Do you feel like paralysis support is necessary for Tropius' effectiveness, or is Toxic support better to Speed up the draining process?

Although Toxic support is cool(more stally and passive damage), Tropius slow speed really benefits from T-Wave. In addition to making the dinosaur's job easier with paralyzed foe, you also get to paraflinch the foe with Air Slash(in addition to having their health sapped by LS).

Have you ever wished that you were using a standard Grass-type supporter/wall like Tangela rather than a SubSeeder (not in terms of how long it makes the battle, but how it affects your response to certain threats as well as tendency to switch in with it)?

Yeah, most of the time I wished I was using Vileplume or Roselia to absorb T-Spikes, have an Electric resist, more offensive presence and of course Sleep Powder. That and both mons being a grass/poison type have good synergy with Regirock and Alomomola.

Did YOU ever wish you were using a Pokemon that was doing something more productive overall?

Yeah. As mentioned above, Vileplume/Roselia better supports the team by getting rid of T-spikes, synergizes better with my other teammates and can shutdown a mon with Sleep Powder.

 

[Celever]

This has been an interesting weak actually. In theory, Camerupt should be really good. Want the truth? He's terrible. I tried him with everything, in sun, having a ninjask pass speed boosts to him, having a ninjask pass speed boosts to him in sun (he was the best in the latter) but he simply cannot cut it. He doesn't even OHKO Golurk with Solar Beam. I don't know, I just wish that he was faster and a little more powerful, but you could say that about anyone.

Tropius is a beast, he just shrugs moves off (when they are not ice type) like they are nothing. Would I ever use him over Exeggutor? Probably not, but I have had lots of fun using him.