Retirement Team: Doctor Who?

[Doctor Who?]

At this stage I am going to retire and probably won't return for 5th gen, although I might still lurk and maybe rate a couple of teams but my knowledge won't be as good because I don't keep up to date with metagame trends any longer, since I won't test it and such. So I'll keep this quick because last time it failed to post and I lost every word, which was just devastating. This team has been pretty good for me at the moment, but I've never achieved a decent rating on the leaderboard so I wouldn't know how it stacks up against good player though. It just revolves around hazards, since they single handedly keep everything from sweeping me. Also dual special attackers is fun before I replaced Starmie because nobody ever prepares for them too much so when they kill the first pokemon they are all like 'woo hoo' and then the second comes out and their Scizor or ttar is already nearly dead. Also their speed means that while I'm Pursuit weak, at very worst I can get off a large hit before I go down so they are basically always a win win pokemon. There are other very small themes as such but I'll wait till later till I introduce them.

Machamp Who?
Adamant
240HP 236ATK 12S.DEF 16SPD
@Lum Berry
- Dynamicpunch
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Payback

This team has been updated with Machamp as the new lead, and with good reason. Between Skarmory and Machamp I can beat pretty much all the common leads (trickscarf Jirachi can be a prolem). I play this Machamp differently to how it is normally played. When most people lead with Machamp they just smash everything, but on this team Machmp serves to eliminating the leads Skarm can't set up on, and switching to Skarm against the bulkier leads to get up some free layers. The coverage is awsome on this set, absolutely no pokemon is not hit for super effective. Bullet Punch is the only priority on the team so I really like to keep Machamp alive just in case a DDTar gets in 2 DDs. Another reason for the use of Machamp on the team is to be a free switch in against the choice Pursuits, Skarm is probably better for getting up layers of hazards but since ttar and other Pursuiters are an ongoing problem for Gengar I prefer to switch this in and nail the switch in or just get rid of the Pursuiter for the rest of the game. Machamp is also an excellent cause of switches, since its Dynamicpunch is fearsome and the confusion is only straight out negated by switching out, which allows Skarm's hazards to hurt a bit more.


Skarmory Who?
Impish
252HP 100DEF 156S.DEF
@Leftovers
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Skarmory is the best spikes layer imo. Also a fantastic lead, but I have changed it to Machamp as a result of my inability to make a decision regarding the fourth move on the set. If I shift Skarm back in the line up I can avoid the problems I've been having with Taunt leads as well as not having to decide between Roost or Brave Bird since having a way to deal with Machamp is no longer as important. When leading with Machamp I will switch to this on the slower, bulkier leads such as Metagross, Hippowdon or Swampert even though Machamp could probably beat them anyway so that I can set up free layers of Spikes. Another great asset of Skarm is its ability to switch into Outrages and deal with them accordingly. If they have set up a DD or I have already set up the hazards I need to I will Whirlwind them away, otherwise I will set up more layers of hazards. Choiced Flygons are my absolute favourite pokemon to play against because when they Outrage I switch this in and turn 2 of the Outrage and the turn they switch out mean I can set up plenty of layers. Now that is making the opponent pay for early game Outrages, wouldn't you agree?


Gengar Who?
Timid
4HP 252S.ATK 252SPD
@Life Orb
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Pain Split

I've always believed nothing ever goes to plan, for example Starmie is technically a gyara check, but after two rounds of sr a +1 EQ kills iirc. Gengar is my spin blocker, but it almost never ends up being used for that purpose, simply because switching into Starmie, the best OU spinner, nails it with Hydro Pump. This is a pretty cool pokemon and part 1 of the now disbanded 'special duo'. I honestly only wanted to give this a try but then the idea of a duo of those fast, special attacking Pursuit weak came to mind (you all know who I'm talking about, Starmie, Jolt, Gengar, etc.). Anyways that plan worked well but now I have switched out Starmie for Suicune so I can have a better water resist and gyara counter. I also nearly fell on the floor the first time I beat Blissey 1 vs 1, because the idea of Gengar beating Blisseywas just so foreign to me. Great coverage, I can get a sub I kill something. Period. Sub + LO sometimes pisses me off but that is why I have recovery I guess. This is a great abuser of spikes too, due to the switches it causes.


Suicune Who?
Timid
252HP 40DEF 216SPD
@Leftovers
- Roar
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric

So Starmie was swapped out for Suicune, and this gives me a better water resist and gyara check and just generally bulkier pokemon overall. I had some problems figuring out what to replace Starmie because Vaporeon was also fairly good but in the end I always just choose Suicune out of personal preferance to be honest. I don't like set up pokemon tbh, I never really have obtained a good sweep with one, so I'm considering changing this to a different set with perhaps Roar instead of Calm Mind and a bulkier spread, which would work since Skarm does a good job of getting hazards up. But I'll wait to see what you guys think first, so opinions? The only thing about Starmie I'm missing to be honest is Natural Cure but if I have set up the layers of hazards I want to then I can use Skarm as fodder, and I also have a steel type to resist poison and a ground type to resist any Twaves. The first move has been changed to Roar because it does better than Calm Mind and is used more with the strategy I have in mind, which is setting up Spikes and SR easily with Skarm.


Jirachi Who?
Jolly
4HP 252S.ATK 252SPD
@Choice Scarf
- Fire Punch
- Iron Head
- Trick
- UTurn

Okay, so I finally got around to writing a description for Jirachi, because I couldn't think of what to write here. Jirachi replaced Heatran for only one reason really. When Heatran and Flygon were my dual scarfers I had everything I needed except for the one thing I needed most, lol, which was a Trick scarfer for those last pokemon sweeps and also for any Suicunes in general. Dual revenge killers is so good, I just can't understand why it isn't used more. Between the combo of Jirachi and Flygon I have just about everything covered. Because Flygon doesn't have a resistance to the common priorities I wanted something that could beat Scizor and Lucario and with Fire Punch Jirachi just as well as Heatran did. Also, Jirachi has a weakness to hazards, since it is grounded it takes Spikes damage, but Flygon is immune to both Spikes and resists Stealth Rock, meaning comingin for free Flygon takes a maximum of 6%. Between the two revenge killers I also resist both of the common status types. Dual UTurns is also another strategy I use to the fullest to take advantage of all the entry hazards that Skarm attempts to set up early game.


Flygon Who?
Jolly
4HP 252ATK 252SPD
@Choice Scarf
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Thunderpunch
- UTurn

Flygon is the main failsafe for the team. As an electric, and therefore Thunderwave, immunity, I can come in with impunity against Blissey and other status users, as well as being my switch in to common trickscarf leads. I also don't have a Jolteon and Agiligross weakness now :) UTurn is such a great move that I can't make a team without it, because it causes switches that this team in particular can take advantage of really well courtesy of Skarmory and the hazards. I used Thunderpunch because Suicune is my only other gyara check, and I wanted, between my two scarfed pokemon, to be able to revenge everything. I can't really say much more since I covered the revenge killer synergy already in Jirachi's description.

This team has been going really well for me, and no pokemon stand out as a weakness, but only one water and ice weakness can be a real pain in the ass. Good day, now and forever, and your rates are appreciated now more than ever since this will be my last team. Also, I'll be at camp August 23-27, so if you don't get a reply during then, I'm not ignoring you and will probably be replying in this thread again from the night of the 27th (I live in Australia) and onward.

 

[ginganinja]

Hey man

Sorry to see you go, hopefully I will still see you around. Anyway I don't see much wrong with the team, Scarf Scizor (lol) can cause you a bit of trouble but it looks solid. Anyway I have a few cosmetic chages to suggest. First I want you to try a Sub Tran over your scarfed one. I know that you like Scarf Tran but personally I think that double scarfers cause overlapping coverage. ANywa ythats the only thing I can see although its 3.40am so I may have missed a few things.

Laters though!

Have a Nice Day!

 

[Doctor Who?]

@ ginganinja: Hey man, I really appreciate you rating the team at such an early time in NZ.

At the moment Scarftran hasn't done much, so I will probably test Subtran. At the moment though I'm more likely to go with Fried Rhys' suggestion to change the pokemon altogether to Scarfrachi since Crocune is hell with only one resist to water, the only Suicune I have come up against wasn't Crocune but I had to sacrifice Starmie and then EQ it with Flygon.

PS: The first sentence of your sig made me lol.

@Fried Rhys: I can concede that lead Machamp can really hurt but I play around it a lot with Gengar and Heatran. Whirlwind is so great though, I just can't consider changing any of Skarm's moveset tbh. I'm not trying to be an arrogant asshole and I will test it anyway, but I doubt it will make a difference.

Your Scarf Jirachi suggestion, very helpful thank you. I will test this and unlike the last change I think it will be permanent. The reason I didn't consider Jirachi as the Scarfer over Heatran was because CM Jirachi was in Starmie's slot. I'm a bit wary of the extra fire weakness but there are still two resists, so it shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: I just realised that Starmie isn't my only ice resist. Now I'm not so worried.

 

[IronBullet]

Hey,

Nice team. You could replace Heatran with Jirachi to deal with CroCune a bit better, but I'd suggest trying out a CM Wish Jirachi in place of Scarf Jirachi. This guy easily beats Suicune 1 on 1 with a combination of Wish, Calm Mind and Thunderbolt, but more importantly, gives you an asset against stall and a wonderful team supporter. This also allows you to run Rapid Spin on Starmie in place of Recover, as Starmie and Jirachi have good defensive synergy. The moveset I suggest is Calm Mind/Psychic/Thunderbolt/Wish with an EV spread of 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spe with a Timid nature. It's also a great check to Machamp, who can give your team problems.

Since CB Tar is not too common, you can try out a much more offensive spread on Machamp, with max Attack and an Adamant nature. The most common Tar seen nowadays is Scarftar, and frankly Machamp doesn't need a lot of Defense investment to deal with it.

Gl in real life!

 

[Doctor Who?]

From the previous rates, Subtran didn't work well but Scarf Jirachi, even if I don't have as reliable Jirachi switch in as before.

Okay, thanks for the rate IBanez, and firstly, I don't really want to use Rapid Spin. Recover is so great, since I cause lots of switches for many common pokemon, such as Gyarados, Gliscor and Heatran. So he doesn't have any problems getting in a recovery. But I don't have any SR weaks, so it would feel like a waste and I would end up with Recover being used more frequently anyway.

Just a small note. If I were to use CM Jirachi, which I will test again, I will use Flash Cannon. When I used it previously Psychic was so fuckin' useless. I know that Psychic kills Machamp but I never used it the last time I used it.

Yeah, I will probably use a spread of 244HP/252ATK/12SPD, 12 SPD guarantees that I will outspeed all other Machamps.

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your message, we're gonna miss you on these forums. Because this is your last team, I'm going to give it an awesome fucking rate, although honestly it looks really solid.

I agree that Jirachi should probably be used over Heatran, as I've never been a big fan of dual scarfers (the only time I did that was when I used scarfed Roserade as a lead with sleep powder). Psychic sounds like a good plan to beat Machamp, but if you don't like that Flash Cannon is fine, electrics are dealt with via Flygon. However if you run this, please consider Brave Bird over Taunt, as I've never found it useful on lead skarmory personally, and because then Machamp is a real dick.

LO Gyarados can be pretty annoying actually, I wouldn't consider Starmie a counter (he can stop it, but at great risk to himself) and Flygon is your only hope, which is never good. The double pursuit weakness just isn't good, and while it gives others chances to switch in, you lose most of your offensive power in the process. For this reason I'd try to run CM + 3 attacks Suciune with leftovers. A +1 Earthquake won't kill (58.8% - 69.3%) and Suicune keeps much of the offensive coverage of Starmie. You do lose recovery and a threat to stall teams however. Alternatively you could even use Vaporeon, but I don't think he fits into this team.

That's all the advice I have, good luck in life.

EDIT: So much for an awesome fucking rate, for some reason my rates always seem a lot shorter then I think they should be.

 

[Scimjara]

Hello Doctor Who? With your request to rate your team I will gladly do so. Interesting team you have yourself, I have a few suggestions that may help your team out!

Solid team nonetheless nothing much to say just a few strong opinions and few ideas I would like to share for this team. First off you would be better off using Roost over Whirlwind on lead Skarmory. "Whirlwind is so great though, I just can't consider changing any of Skarm's moveset tbh." Okay well I understand your strong opinion about having Whirlwind on lead Skamory set but I will still try to explain otherwise. You state that "Roost isn't as great on this as the analysis might have you think, obviously necessary for stall, but after sr and 2 layers of spikes this is absolutely dead weight." Which is completely wrong you aren't trying to use Skarmory as a suicide lead you rather are trying to preserve Skamory providing you a defensive Steel type for pokemon such as Scizor when you can't always switch in Heatran because the avid player would easily take advantage of that. Offensive Starmie is actually very frail and during mid game due to Life Orb, entry hazards, and potential Sand Storm Starmie wont be able to take Scizors Bullet Punch. This is a typical scenario you will have to deal with for most part. The current route you seem to take is the "quick paced" Spiker lead. If that is the case you would be better of using Smeargle or even Roserade with Spikes and TS. I do not suggest you use either of those leads they are just being mentioned I myself am I fan of Taunt+Lum Skarmory lead ok so.... Roost also aids your ability of setting up entry hazards for instance you can only take so many offensive attacks until Skarmory faints. So basically you need Skarm as your back up to physical attacks and it shouldn't get worn down. Something like scarf Flygon were it doesn't use U-turn rather Stone Edge or Thunder Punch or Outrage. Rather then precociously sending in Heatran to take those attacks and recieve a good amount of damage. You can rather use Skarmory to Roost off the damage and proceed to set up more layers.

I would also suggest a few speed EVs in Skamory as well as SpD EVs. With the lack of a few speed EV's you do not out speed standard lead Metagross. So there goes the whole idea of preventing sr from slower base leads. Even if you decide to not agree about using Roost > Whirlwind SpD Evs are still necessary. Especially since you use the wonderful Lum+Taunt, which was meant to play against Sleep Inducing leads such as Roserade. With the lack of SpD EVs you will be taking massive damage from Rosrades secondary attack whether it is Hidden Powder Fire or Ice. By having a required amount of SpD EVs you will be able to take two HP Fires while you can set up SR and Roost of the damage thus allowing you for the following turns to set up more layers of Spikes while having full HP Skarmory. With this said I suggest you use the following spread...

Skamory @ Lum Berry | Keen Eye
Impish | 252 HP | 100 Speed | 156 SpD
Taunt | Stealth Rock | Spikes | Roost

I'm also in favor of Vaporeon > Starmie. With the use of two choice pokemon and Machamp Wish is really helpfull. As well as having Heal Bell on the set to provide wonderful aid to Machamp who doesn't comprehend well with burn/para/toxic. In all seriousness Vaporeon provides much more use to this team then silly old Starmie. Providing you an efficient Bulky Water that pairs well with Flygon. For the last slot I would use HP Electric for Gyarados and other water types but you should also consider Roar because this makes up for Skarmory not having a phazing move.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers | Water Absorb
Bold | 176 HP | 252 Def | 86 Speed
Surf | Wish | Heal Bell | Hidden Power Electric / Protect / Roar

Good Luck with the Team !

 

[Doctor Who?]

Okay, massive team changes coming up, so the team is more up to date and everything. Just a small note, when I wrote about not changing Skarm's moveset I wasn't saying "Not accepting changes, I'm too good" but I was just very confident that the moves on him at the time were all so useful I didn't really think about changing. I'm sorry if I came off as arrogant to anybody.

@ Smith:
Thanks for your rate man, but I always measure how good a rat is by how helpful it is, and not its length, in which case your rate was wonderful. It was actually after this rate I first considered changing Skarm's moveset. You only posted a small note at the bottom of your first paragraph but I started considering Roost or Brave Bird instead of Taunt since Scimjara pointed out, I'm not even outspeeding Metagross, so it started to reduce in usefulness, since most leads were suicide bullshit.

Scarf Jirachi is over Heatran, I'm sorry I didn't notify anyone and that was a lot better than CM Jirachi, so useful having double scarfers really, so many times I have come into a trick lead for example, and gone to Flygon or Jirachi and then UTurned out but found they tricked again, no problem go to the other scarfer. This has happened at least twice with Uxie only, so what I'm trying to say is that it has so many uses other than revenging everything, and with the change from Heatran to Jirachi I stop last sweep pokes. I can however respect your opinion though about not liking dual scarfers however I think it has become a very important part of the team. I went sort of off track there but what I was trying to do was give an example of how dual scarfers are cool and also say that Scarf Jirachi stays, and I have already tested CM.

I will be testing CMcune, I think that you are absolutely correct that gyara is a problem and also that Pursuit double weakness is bad news, since Machamp can't keep coming in on ttar for the whole game, wearing himself down with substitute and all, I have tested bulkier non sub versions but they just didn't have the power to take down something practically every single game so I stuck with sub. As I said I will test cune, and I think it will be a permanent change, since on paper it looks like a better replacement. I agree that Vappy might be misplaced on this team, and despite having only 1.5 pokemon with recovery (Pain Split isn't recovery but it deserves a mention) I haven't had problems with longevity. Suicune also is a better water resist which is great. I will test Vappy however for the sake of having a non biased change as the end result.

Thankyou so much, not just for the rate, but you have provided some insights into the team which have made me really consider the roles of some pokemon.

@ Scimjara:
I also thank you for your opinion on Skarm but honestly I think I will replace Taunt before Whirlwind for previously mentioned reasons, Taunt is good but it isn't really being used as much as any of the other moves. I am currently very torn between Brave Bird and Roost, your reasoning as to why Roost should be there is greatly appreciated and now that I think about it I do love having Skarm being there to sponge any hits and the part about coming in and using resistances to set up more layers while roosting off hits made me want roost a lot tbh. Brave Bird however has its merits as a way of dealing damage to Machamp straight up, as some posters have said, I have Machamp problems. So I will leave Roost vs. Brave Bird open for discussion and test both, but I don't really want to rush into making a decision for now until I carefully consider both.

Can I see some damage calcs with your Skarm ev spread on how it takes Flygon's attacks, since that is the pokemon I had in mind of coming into with my defence evs, since all are choiced and it means easy layers, but yeah, I needed ev help there and for sure I will use those evs for setting up against Rosy. If I get rid of taunt then I do sort of lose effectiveness against her but I can still set up some layers before taking the sleep with something.

I certainly concede that on paper Vappy has more merits than Suicune but honestly in the past I have been let down by her. I said before I would test both, and I intend to do so, but even though she can pass wish and heal status I am hesitant because of past experiences. Eghhh, I don't know why but Vappy as just disappointed me.

Thankyou both so much, I will miss you two and I thoroughly appreciate you input and suggested changes, now off to test them all.

EDIT: Now that is a long, tedious, boring post. :P

 

[Friar]

Got your vm, and I have to say, I really like this team! So many great combinations you have going! Lets see if we cant make the team a bit better.

Just spitballing here, but what if you moved Machamp to the lead slot? This means you will beat most leads you didnt beat beofre with Skarm. In fact, if you speed creep a little bit, you can beat opposing lead machamp. What does this mean? Skarmory can run a set of SR / Spikes / Roost / Whirlwind and not have to worry so much about Brave Bird. Even better, there are few leads that beat Machamp, but the ones that do (Metagross / Jirachi / etc) are hazard fodder for Skarmory. I think Leftovers should be your new item on Skarmory then. Seeing as hazards are important for your team, I wouldnt keep Machamp in against Swampert or the like even though Machamp will usually come out on top, because Swampert is hazard fodder anyway. Try a moveset of DPunch / Payback / Ice Punch / Bullet Punch and a spread of 240 HP / 236 Attack / 12 SpD / 16 Speed with an Adamant nature.

I'll just say I love ScarfGon + ScarfRachi and SubSplit Gengar + Special Attacker X, dont have anything to say about them but I love that youre using them :]

Anyway, those small edits should help you a bit. Good luck with this team and good luck irl, we'll miss you here.

 

[Doctor Who?]

Wow, you have no idea how helpful that rate was, and I'm currently facepalming myself I didn't think of doing that earlier.

I'm actually so confident that that will work that I'm not even going to test it, just change it now. Thanks so much!

More rates, please guys! If you look at the OP you'll notice that my ev spreads are very bland and I'm really not making the most of the allowed 508 evs, so if you guys could help with that I'll be really grateful.

 

[Doctor Who?]

24 hour bump?

 

[KidX]

I got your VM

Well most of the threats have been covered pretty well in the above posts.

Anyways A scarf infernape can cause a lot of damage to your team with the right prediction, and it outspeeds everything on your team, so I would suggest a Vappy instead of Suicune because Vappy is the best counter to nape because its really light and bulky and packs quite a punch, I would say just use the standard wish support set.

Good Luck!

 

[Doctor Who?]

I'm not trying to appear arrogant or anything but I have already tried Vaporeon > Suicune, and I must say, I was unimpressed.

ScarfApe has been encountered before and I must say, not very impressive. It means a free set up for either Suicune or Gengar depending on what move it uses and it doesn't even 2hko Suicune with Grass Knot iirc.

Guys, I'm going to go ahead and test Roar on Suicune with a spread of 252HP 252DEF 4SPD. I'm really curious as to how it will do in comparison with the current set I'm using.

EDIT: My Suicune spread is revised as 252HP 40DEF 216SPD @Timid, so I can outspeed Adamant Luke. Otherwise it is doing better with Roar so I'm rewriting the original post.

 

[ENZ0]

Hey Doctor Who?,

Sorry for the late rate! This is a really cool team you got going; Anti-Lead Machamp with Skarmory's support is unexpected and effective. I find it surprising your team handles common sweepers well, in comparison to other semi-stall teams. Starmie is the most notable threat, which nearly all spike-stacking teams have trouble with. The main weakness I see are stall teams with Forretress and/or Taunt Skarmory.

Well, enough with the weaknesses, now lets try to fix them! I would probably being by taking a Choice Scarf out of one of your pokemon. I suggest changing Choice Scarf Jirachi into Mixrachi, because it will bait Forretress and Skarmory into coming in and then takes care of both. Jirachi should look like, Jirachi @Expert Belt | Hasty Nature | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe | Iron Head / Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunderbolt. I chose a Hasty Nature because of FWG running around with special attackers. It gives you an easier time against Celebi, Shaymin, Starmie, Suicune, etc. This is more of a personal preference and depends on your team; Hasty Nature still has its drawbacks like getting wrecked by +1 Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados, and getting hit harder by ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch. You can definitely try Grass Knot over Thunderbolt for Swampert and Hippowdon since they give Flygon and Jirachi problems, but I would keep Thunderbolt.

Now for the nitpicks, I would take 4 Atk EVs into SpD on Machamp to ensure you don't get OHKO'ed by Azelf's Psychic. I suggest using the spread 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe on Skarmory to have an easier time setting up against special attackers. Also, use 4 Def EVs for Gengar, and not 4 HP EVs. I would use max speed on Suicune, so just move the leftover Def EVs into Spe and the last 4 EVs into SpA. You might want to use Calm Mind over Roar, but thats your preference. Lastly, I would use Stone Edge over Thunderpunch on Flygon to hit flyers like Zapdos for more damage. I have to say ironically these minor changes will be of major improvement to your team. I think that is it!

I'm sorry to hear the retirement! Hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[Doctor Who?]

Thanks for the rate, lucky I checked back here recently. Even though the team hasn't been used in ages, I might revive it to do the changes you suggested, since, looking at it, it might be interesting to change some more things up and try something new.

The mix Jirachi is definitely a plausible idea, and I understand and totally agree with the reasoning behind it. I'll for sure try that as soon as I can. But if I use a hasty nature (which I'm currently leaning toward) then it would be wise to keep Thunderpunch on Flygon instead of changing it, as you suggested to Stone Edge, because you mentioned about being more vulnerable to Gyara with +1 with hasty, and that's something I want to cover well.

The nitpicks you suggested, especially the ones relating to evs, can only make the team better, and there is no reason to keep the spreads the way they are currently tbh. The ev spread for Suicune will be changed with your suggestion, but I thoroughly disagree with changing Roar to Calm Mind. I have problems finding ways to set up pokemon, Suicune one of most troubling, so more often than not I would be not using Calm Mind at all. And the phazing with entry hazards is fantastic. Having two pokemon to phaze is better than most would think.

Thanks though, a really helpful insight, and most of the changes shall be made immediately!

Any more rates? (I know I'm pushing it, but this team hasn't been played in ages, so it needs all the help it can get)

EDIT: New idea. How would a swap of Machamp and Skarmory for one of these Heatran leads I hear about and a spiking Roserade go?? Opinions??

 

[The Grand Babido]

Hey, definitely consider Calm Mind over Hidden Power [Electric] on Suicune. I think that CM+Roar Suicune is really good and you can often lure in a Jirachi or something and Calm Mind to +6 before simply Roaring it away. Your need for HP Elec isn't even that high anyway, as Gyarados will probably run from Suicune anyway, and you also do have Flygon to beat it and Skarmory to phaze Taunt-less versions.

I don't think you need Jirachi at all, and although it was originally intended there as an answer to CroCune and Jirachi, as well as sponging Dragon-type attacks. The latter is not needed that much really, as with Latias and Salamence gone, Kingdra and Flygon have substantially weaker Draco Meteors, although Dragonite is obviously quite annoying. You also have a notable problem with Pokemon like Life Orb Starmie [especially Rapid Spin versions] and offensive water-types such as Suicune, with your own Suicune being the best answer for them. You should try a Shaymin over Jirachi, it beats CroCune, outruns Lucario and threatens with HP Fire although it needs a lot of prior damage or a Close Combat drop to KO, and check all bulky-waters quite well.

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Timid | Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 24 SpAtk / 52 SpDef / 180 Spe
Seed Flare / Leech Seed / Protect / Hidden Power [Fire]

24 SpAtk breaks Gengar's Substitute. 180 Spe outruns Lucario and all Suicune. The rest is thrown in to HP and SpDef to allow you to take bulky-waters assaults as best as possible. Just something to consider.

Good team and good luck!

 

[Doctor Who?]

Hmmm, your opinion regarding Jirachi is interesting, since as ENZO pointed out, it could help take out some difficult walls that I have a definite weakness to, but to be fair to both of you I will test both Shaymin as well as the revised Jirachi set. It is definitely true that Jirachi is nowhere near as important as it once was, with Latias and Salamence gone, but this team hasn't been used for ages so there are probably a number of things that could be changed to suit the current metagame better.

Changing Hp Elec to Calm Mind, while at first seemed to be a bad idea (as I have previously explained I have trouble setting it up, and have been pretty adamant to keep Roar) but keeping Roar and combining it with Calm Mind is actually a very useful option, which I have been liking since I started testing, and it looks like it will be changed for sure.

Thankyou, some valid opinions and reasonable changes you have suggested, and I will test them all for sure.

PS: Has anybody got any thought on Machamp and Skarm ---> Heatran and Rose??

 

[The Grand Babido]

I have yes. By using Heatran and Roserade, you open yourself up quite badly to Kingdra as you no longer have an immediate switch-in and you have to hope it Dragon Dances as you switch in Flygon.

 

[Doctor Who?]

Okay, thanks, that makes sense. Thanks for the help with it, I'll keep it the way it is.

 

[Boondocker]

Got the rate request. I have a couple suggestions for you. Any team with spikes NEEDS a spinblocker. Gengar doesnt cut it. So get him outta here. Replace him with rotom. Rotom+flygon is a great combo since it almost guarentees starmie wont get to spin. Since you like to beat blissey (who doesnt?) use a sub painsplit rotom (great set). Blissey wont be able to break your subs unless it carrys the rare shadow ball. Acts as another check to gyrados and your only one to sub magnezone. 252hp 252spe 4spa timid sub/painsplit/WoW/thunderbolt @leftovers is the set . You can get bulkier if you want, but use enough speed to counter togekiss.

Next machamp has to go. Sure hes a good anti-lead...but he adds absolutely nothing to the team. All he does is check ttar and blissey, but your other members have no trouble with those two. He also has little to no wall breaking abilities. Honestly long term strategy>killing suicide leads. You have no problems with azelf anyway since you have flygon+jirachi+rotom. You laugh even more at aerodactl. The suprise factor is gone and every team has a plan for him. Moving skarm to the lead spot to get an early sr will do wonders for the team. Put a lum berry on him

Suicunes set sucks (no offense). I used to run that exact same set but your asking too much out of it. Run 252hp 252def 4spe with rest/sleeptalk/roar/surf for some shuffling fun. You dont miss ice beam and hp electric since you have rotom and flygon to counter gyra and ice beam isnt beating grass types (bar breloom) anyways.

Since you eliminated machamp you have a free slot. Slap a shaymin there with the moves leech seed/rest/seed flare/hp ice. Run 252hp 252spe 4spa. This guy hard counters gliscor, rotom, suicune, and sub roost zapdos. He also helps you beat curselax if jirachi gets trapped by magnezone. Leech seed it then switch to rotom to burn it and keep subbing. When it rests spam thunderbolt. Run hp fire if your having luke/forteress problems. Easily takes a +2 extreme speed from luke, but beware it doesnt 1hko. Hp ice breaks zapdos subs and lets you COUNTER mixnite. I always survive fireblast but it might not be guarenteed.

Summary of changes: Skarm leads
Change suicunes set
Sub painsplit rotom over gengar
Shaymin over machamp

Your team is now skarm>suicune>shaymin>rotom>jirachi>flygon

Thats all i have. With these changes the only thing that really threatens you is...nothing. Maybe a well played dragonite but theres nothing you can do about that. Oh and offensive zapdos, but as long as you bring shaymin in on a thunderbolt you can survive the heat wave and leech seed it. Against breloom let suicune take the sleep and then let shaymin eat a focus punch. It will live and can rest the damage off later. Against lead machamp switch to rotom on the DP then skarm on the payback. Brave bird for 70+% damage. You have a 50% chance to kill it or get a layer of spikes. My most succesful team (top 5 on shoddy) has 5/6 alot of these pokes. Sadly that team only got 1 rate. Anyway props for using duel scarfers, it destroys offensive teams. Since you can handle curselax with shaymin+rotom you might be able to lead with jirachi, put shed shell on skarm, and give him brave bird over stealth rock. Matter of fact do that. And give jirachi stealth rock over something. You need the protection against machamp and shaymin/celebi. Good luck

 

[Doctor Who?]

After very large amounts of testing I have finally decided on which changes I will implement.

Firstly, Heist, your Suicune set, was very interesting and a few times I actually swept, and I'll definitely use it. Boondocker, while the recovery was appreciated, I generally liked the idea of setting up and roaring.

The choice of who to replace for a Shaymin was in the end pretty easy, and it was obvious I do need a Shaymin there. Machamp was obviously a much more easily replaced pokemon, as a suicide lead, and Skarmory still functioned as a lead. Jirachi also served well as the lure for forretress and skarmory as ENZO suggested. So yeah, Shaymin>Machamp.

The Rotom-A set worked better than the gengar in terms of how solid it was, and that will go over gengar for sure.