Revisions - Pyroak discussion

[bugmaniacbob]

Wow, I'm late again.

Firstly, if we want an alternative ability for Battle Armour, I think it ought to be something that is just as usable as Rock Head, as physical

Bringing up the following for debate:

Clear Body/White Smoke - Whichever is better flavour-wise, as a possible alternative to Battle Armour. Basically a bigger help against Intimidate users (specifically, Gyarados and Salamence, Pyroak's great bugbears), or for those not using recoil moves. I'm not entirely sure that it would be of that much use, really, as special sets would not care about Intimidate anyway, and most physical sets would rather go with Rock Head for the protection against recoil. Still, it has practical applications and goes some way to remedying Pyroak's Intimidate problems.

Flash Fire - I can see this being of decent use, as first of all it can take advantage of the large numbers of Scizor and Metagross in CAP with a Fire immunity, and also the ability to take advantage of it thanks to powerful Fire-type STAB. Immunity to Fire gives it a massive advantage over Celebi, and also allows it to take on Heatran to a reasonable extent. I would think it more useful on defensive sets, as the Fire immunity seems to be more useful there, while giving it the firepower to strike back, which is all to the good, as it allows defensive sets a more viable position despite the presence of Celebi.

Dry Skin - Almost the opposite of the aforementioned, Dry Skin would make Pyroak more suited to taking on Bulky Waters than being able to switch into Fire attacks. It does, however, make it more vulnerable to Heatran and others, which is not good with a defensive ability such as this. It would also probably contribute to a reduction in the viability of weather teams, as sun loses a massive player for their side, while rain teams gain a more difficult foe to beat.

Oh, and one other move:

Head Smash - Very controversial, this. Pairs up with Rock Head for an Aggron-like combination. I'm not convinced that it would be broken, as there is still great competition for moveslots from things like Earthquake (if allowed), and it is not all that reliable. Pyroak isn't much faster than Aggron and doesn't have Aggron's resistances, though it makes up for that with less weaknesses, and also does not get STAB on Head Smash. As an auxilary attack this would make Pyroak extremely threatening on the physical side, as it deals heavy damage to almost everything that resists the Fire/Grass combination, Salamence and Gyarados in particular. Speaking of those two, it slightly deals with the problem of Intimidate, as an Intimidated Head Smash hits just as hard as a normal powered Stone Edge, with the same dodgy accuracy. It's undoubtedly a great attack for Pyroak to have, but perhaps a little bit too far on the physical side.

 

[Zystral]

again, on the subject of Flash Fire, I'm recalling Zarator mentioned Thick Fat.

1 Immunty + 1 Neutral < 2 Resistances, I think, especially when those resistances are to some very common attacking types.
Having an Ice Resist will definitely let Pyroak switch in a lot easily and helps him stall out a bit longer as opposed to Flash Fire where he comes in, takes no damage and then gets wiped away by something else.

 

[Meltra]

Battle Armor should be replaced IMO. I agree with Flash Fire, it would give Pyroak a chance against Heatran. Give it Earthquake, and Heatran won't be much of a problem. White Smoke is a decent ability, and paired with Stone Edge, it can deal with Salamence and Gyarados (bar the Bounce variants) to a reasonable extent. And Water Absorb...no. Pyroak already has a 4x resistance to Water not really needed, since Pyroak can learn Leaf Storm. Dry Skin is good, but it weakens the power of Solarbeam in the rain. Otherwise, I see no problem with Dry Skin. I concur with Head Smash for reasons previously stated.

 

[TekkenStorm]

And Water Absorb...no. Pyroak already has a 4x resistance to Water.

No he doesn't... He's neutral to Water. Grass resists Water while Fire is weak to it.

Also I would like the addition of Head Smash, for reasons mentioned already in this thread and because he has Rock Head, would help him greatly competitively and a lesser reason is because it fits his theme well with his other recoil moves. Without STAB and with Pyroaks average attack it shouldn't be broken.

 

[Meltra]

No it* doesn't... He's neutral to Water. Grass resists Water while Fire is weak to it.

Also I would like the addition of Head Smash, for reasons mentioned already in this thread and because he has Rock Head, would help him greatly competitively and a lesser reason is because it fits his theme well with his other recoil moves. Without STAB and with Pyroaks average attack it shouldn't be broken.

Ah, forgot about that. Still, Pyroak can still deal with Waters reasonably with Leaf Storm.

 

[Zystral]

@ Himanattsu - giving him a new ability and a move JUST to take care of ONE Pokemon when you could give him a new ability and a move which will let Pyroak deal with loads of other different Pokemon seems silly, doesn't it?
It's not that Flash Fire sucks, it's that if they don't have Heatran/Infernape then you're screwed over when you could have a much better ability.

@ TekkenStorm - reasons why Head Smash is just too overpowered have been given already. You want to put White Smoke on TOP of that?
Intimidated Head Smash = Normal Stone Edge. And a Normal Stone Edge is enough to send Mence packing.
Sure, he doesn't get STAB and isn't as strong as Aggron, it's still crazy to give Pyroak Head Smash.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

TekkenStorm - reasons why Head Smash is just too overpowered have been given already.

They're has been only one reason other than your that was against Head Smash and it didn't even look like a valid reason. Looks more like he/she was randomly talking about something else. Hell he/she mentioned Stone Edge was a bit excessive, but I don't think Stone Edge is excessive on Pyroak. They're seem to be a slight lead towards "for Head Smash" group.

 

[Deck Knight]

Second, no offense deck, but your spread looks like a watered down colossoil with worse typing. I like zarator's spread since it can go mixed (fire blast + wood hammer, anyone?) and still tank shit.

Worse typing? Pyroak's only notable weakness is Rock. Colosoil has a plethora of bad weaknesses, most notably Ice, Water, and Fighting. (Though Bug doesn't help with Scizor around). The Flying and Poison weaknesses are undesirable, but really, there's a world of difference between the two, especially if it gets a speed upgrade so Scizor can't just U-turn on it. Colosoil's stats are also fairly inflated, even by CAP standards.

Even so, Pyroak's tankiness ratings are 187/167 compared to 157/155.

There's also the matter of movepool. Colossoil has no stat-up moves whereas, given this discussion, Pyroak could have several.

However if you want a bit more oomph...

108/90/95/75/85/102. BST 555.
PSweep: 160 (Rank 6, Very Good)
PTank: 174 (Rank 6, Very Good)
SSweep: 134 (Rank 5: Good)
STank: 155 (Rank 6: Very Good)
ODB: -2.55 Slight bias to Defense
PSB: 6.62 Moderate Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 347 Rank 6: Very Good.

(PyChomp ftw!)

One move not yet discussed: Double-Edge. Fire/Grass/Normal does alright (except against Heatran), especially after a Swords Dance.

 

[tennisace]

head smash is absolutely insane given that you also want to give pyroak boosting moves. Fire/grass/rock hits heatran neutral, mence se, and latias neutral. Combined with rock head and you can pretty much spam it as much as you want, since the ground types that resist it cant come in due to wood hammer. No on head smash from me.

@deck: point taken about the typing, but i was referring to the unfortunate sr weakness. Anyway i like your new spread a bit better, but i still want pyroak to go mixed if it wants.

@other abilities: all of the abilities suggested sound fine, since sweeper sets would be stupid not to run at least wood hammer, if not flare blitz too. Im still leaning towards intimidate, though since i think it will be a better option on a subseed set.

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

A 108/90/95/95/90/78 would allow Pyroak to become more physically inclined, while still leaving the option of a special/mixed set open. He would also maintain (most of) his bulk, and be able to outrun Heatran (which would work well if given Flash Fire). I'm basically going for a combination of zerator's stat sread and Deck Knight's. I agree with tennisace, Head Smash would be entirely too broken (unless it was made illegal with Swords Dance). I also agree with Deck Knight about Double-Edge being added to his movepool. It would provide great coverage, and if it were to have earthquake on the set (to counter Heatran), it would have to sacrifice any stat-boosting moves to were running.

 

[HeavyOctillery]

Again, I'm going to go with zarator's spread; Pyroak was built like a tank, and it should remain a tank. With SubSeeding, HP is more important than defenses, anyway, and its Sp. Atk should not be sacrificed when it has way more Special attacking options. I'm not quite sure extra Speed is necessary, either.

Regarding Flash Fire, it would give it a major niche among Grass types (the ONLY Grass type immune to Fire). Also, Heatran isn't the only Fire type in OU; there's still Infernape, and there's several other non-Fire types who still use Fire attacks (Flamethrower Blissey [who a Pyroak with the aforementioned spread would DECIMATE]; HP Fire Latias; several other HP Fire users) who Pyroak would gladly switch into. Still a tad situational compared to, say, Intimidate or Pressure (both of which are good choices), but not quite as pointless as some of you think.

 

[hydrolphin]

I don't see how Flash Fire would be that useful to Pyroak. Heatran doesn't counter Pyroak because it has STAB fire moves, it counters him becuase it resist every single thing Pyroak has. And Pyroak doesn't really want to switch in on most pokemon with fire moves. Here is a list of all the OU the pokemon that have a fire move listed in the latest Common movesets thread:

Salamence
Tyranitar
Heatran
Jirachi
Infernape
Gengar
Rotom-A
Azelf
Magnezone
Celebi
Flygon
Dragonite
Togekiss
Electivire
Snorlax
Dusknoir
Roserade

Most of these Pyroak can already switch into, or would not want to switch into. Salamence, Heatran, and Dragonite resist both STABs, and need a coverage move to kill, something Pyroak could only carry one of. I highly doubt Pyroak would even want to switch in on Mence who can outspeed and use Draco Meteor out outrage. Pyroak already resists Jirachi's Iron Head and would have no trouble switching in. Infernape outspeeds and hits with STAB Close Combat while resisting both STABs. Pyroak can already switch into Gengar's and Rotom's T-Bolt, but why you would want to is beyond me. If Pyroak is a lead (about the only time you'd see Azelf) Azelf would likely not be using Flamethrower against it. Pyraok already resists both Magnezone's STABs, so its very easy for him to switch in. Pyroak x4 resists Celebi's and Roserade's main move, so switching in shouldn't be a problem. Togekiss has a SE stab move to kill Pyroak with, so switching in would be stupid. E-vire is pathetic and Pyroak would have no difficulty coming in. Dusknoir only carries WoW, which Pyroak already resists, or Fire Punch, which has pathetic power.

So that leaves Tyranitar, Flygon, and Snorlax as things you might want to switch into. Neither Flygon nor Snorlax have a very powerful Fire moves, which won't do much against Pyroak anyway. T-Tar has a SE Stone Edge, so you have to be sure its using Fire Punch/Flamethrower before switching in.

Two pokemon that have been addressed, but I have not mentioned are Blissey and Latias. Latias falls in the same boat as Salamence et al resisting both STABs. Blissey only carries Flamethrower 26.7% of the time, and isn't really difficult ot come in on. So who exactly is Pyroak switching into with Flash Fire?

On a more positive note, I am still mostly in favor of Immunity, which rids Pyroak of TS. But Intimidate doesn't sound bad. Head Smash is way to powerful-If something with Rock/Steel typing ccan become marginally useful upon recieving Head Smash+Rock Head, then imagine what it would be like on a pokemon with no x4 weakness, and one main weakness, being to rock. Double Edge on the other hand sounds like a good move for Pyroak to get.

 

[Raj]

I like betterthanyourgod's set because it doesn't sacrifice all that much. In fact, I don't even care about the raised speed as Heatran really isn't even a problem. I'd keep the Speed at whatever it was originally and then throw something into HP

 

[Scoopapa]

Swapping the two attacking stats and adding Dragon Dance would be a pretty simple way to make Pyroak a lot better. With 95 base attack and the Flare Blitz / Wood Hammer combo, it would be able to hit pretty hard, so it would work nicely as a bulky dragon dancer. Gyarados will still be outsped if it comes in after Dragon Dance, and Wood Hammer 2HKO's without a boost. Adding other moves could help it overcome Heatran (edit: forgot about Brick Break) or Salamence, but even just the swap and DD would be enough to make it much more usable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really see special attacking being that important; a Life Orb and 252 EV's would let him OHKO Hippowdon and Skarmory with the appropriate +1 moves. Skarmory still has a good chance of dying against a Leftovers variant if Stealth Rock is down. Most physically bulky pokemon are Rock, Steel, Water, Grass, or Ground types - all of which Pyroak hits with 120 BP STAB super effective moves.

The main appeal of this, to me, is that it is simple and doesn't change a lot. Most aspects of the stat rating stay exactly the same, and a single boosting move (which many people here support) get's added. I'm not saying this should be done to the exclusion of any other changes, but I do think this alone could make him much better, while changing as little as possible.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Water Absorb would be stupid.
and I mean stupid.

I discussed Flash Fire with Zarator over IRC; we both agreed it would be a great ability for switching into Heatran (Pyroak's N.1 counter) and then SubSeed + Boosted Fire attack sweep sure.
But that relied on your foe running Heatran, and since Colossoil started to exist, Heatran took a hurting, and when there is no Heatran for you to abuse, Pressure becomes a much more attractive ability.

I just want to know how water absorb would be stupid? Competitively it takes out a type that is a neutral hit. It's a little odd, but competitively relevant on something meant to be bulky. Certainly could help a nice Colossoil/ Pyroak combo, along with a few others. Or it could be changed to absorb fire moves rather than water. I think calling it stupid is short sighted.

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

pkmn-taicho321, I don't think he meant competitively stupid, I think he meant that it wouldn't make sense on a grass/fire pokemon. I do agree that an ability that would heal when hit with a fire move would work well with Pyroak.

And dragonites has a good point, Pyroak doesn't really need a speed boost (especially if he were to be given DDance), so a 120/90/95/95/90/60 stat spread or a 108/90/95/95/90/78 would work.

Swapping the two attacking stats and adding Dragon Dance would be a pretty simple way to make Pyroak a lot better.

Pyroak has a great special move pool. You're right, the WoodHammer/FlareBlitz combination is pretty fantastic, but don't forget he has the LeafStorm/Overheat combination.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

pkmn-taicho321, I don't think he meant competitively stupid, I think he meant that it wouldn't make sense on a grass/fire pokemon. I do agree that an ability that would heal when hit with a fire move would work well with Pyroak.

And dragonites has a good point, Pyroak doesn't really need a speed boost (especially if he were to be given DDance), so a 120/90/95/95/90/60 stat spread or a 108/90/95/95/90/78 would work.


Pyroak has a great special move pool. You're right, the WoodHammer/FlareBlitz combination is pretty fantastic, but don't forget he has the LeafStorm/Overheat combination.

I kind of wish the was a Special Dragon Dance. The Physical side is becoming more and more dominant as the metagame expands. Of the top ten pokemon in the November stats 7 are generally see sporting physical attacks, and many are stronger defensively than offensively. Leafstorm/Overheat have the draw back of the sharp power drop, but they also boast 150 base power as well as STAB.

If you hadn't already guessed I'm leading this into asking if it's too late to introduce an entirely new move to Pyroak's repituar.

 

[tennisace]

I kind of wish the was a Special Dragon Dance. The Physical side is becoming more and more dominant as the metagame expands. Of the top ten pokemon in the November stats 7 are generally see sporting physical attacks, and many are stronger defensively than offensively. Leafstorm/Overheat have the draw back of the sharp power drop, but they also boast 150 base power as well as STAB.

If you hadn't already guessed I'm leading this into asking if it's too late to introduce an entirely new move to Pyroak's repitour.

The reason physical based pokemon are dominating is because blissey shuts down every special attacker except subcm jirachi and sub charge beam rotom-a. There is no comparable physical wall, skarmory gets pounded by sdape and sdluke, gliscor gets beat up by gyarados/mence, hippowdon flat-out loses to gyara and salamence.

Also im going to say no new moves or abilities at all. Why do we need a special dragon dance when special pyroak is shut down by blissey? Same with abilities: there are plenty to choose from that can help the subseeder set.

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

The Physical side is becoming more and more dominant as the metagame expands. Of the top ten pokemon in the November stats 7 are generally see sporting physical attacks, and many are stronger defensively than offensively. Leafstorm/Overheat have the draw back of the sharp power drop, but they also boast 150 base power as well as STAB.

The reason physical based pokemon are dominating is because blissey shuts down every special attacker except subcm jirachi and sub charge beam rotom-a. There is no comparable physical wall, skarmory gets pounded by sdape and sdluke, gliscor gets beat up by gyarados/mence, hippowdon flat-out loses to gyara and salamence.

This is why Pyroak's attack and special attack should not be swapped, rather the physical attack should be raised. I'm saying that Pyroak should be a MIXED sweeper rather than a purely physical or purely special. A DDance/Overheat/WoodHammer/Stone Edge (or earthquake) moveset with a
120/90/95/95/90/60 and 172 Attack EVs+88 SpAttack EVs would deal with many of the meteagame's walls. Skarmory is almost always OHKOd with Overheat after SR damage (with 252 HP EVs). A +1 wood hammer is a 2HKO even without SR, and a +2 is a OHKO with SR. As for BLissy, a +1 Woodhammer is an automatic OHKO with SR, and even has a chance to OHKO without it (Unfortunetly, stab isn't factored in to any of this, so some of the 2HKOs could be OHKOs).

 

[Plus]

This is why Pyroak's attack and special attack should not be swapped, rather the physical attack should be raised. I'm saying that Pyroak should be a MIXED sweeper rather than a purely physical or purely special. A DDance/Overheat/WoodHammer/Stone Edge (or earthquake) moveset with a
120/90/95/95/90/60 would deal with many of the meteagame's walls, Skarmory is almost always OHKOd with Overheat after SR damage (with 252 HP EVs). A +1 wood hammer is a 2HKO even without SR, and a +2 is a OHKO with SR. A +1 Woodhammer is an automatic OHKO with SR, and even has a chance to OHKO without it (Unfortunetly, stab isn't factored in to any of this, so some of the 2HKOs could be OHKOs).

I'm not entirely sure where tennis said that it should be swapped -- the only thing tennis said was the reason as to why physical dominates over special in terms of offense, and he is pretty much on the money. To be frank I don't really give a shit about which type of offense it's going to go in as long as it will beat more shit up. In this case, yes, physical is imo the preferred way to go, but I really do hope that you guys aren't implying that a heavier physical bias means that it can't go mixed.

I'm going to calc some stuff, and of course I welcome anyone else to try calcing with this wonderful calculator.

100.6% - 118.6%

A Pyroak Overheat with a 80 base Satk on a Skarmory, neutral natures and no EVs. Obviously if you ran mixed you would probably invest a bit more to kill stuff like Jirachi and whatnot, and you'd also probably pack LO to compensate for the overall weakness you get from using both sides instead of one. If you were really to swap the offenses of Pyroak and give it a 70 base Satk, then you'd still get 90.4% - 106.6% without any Satk investment, which is pretty good to me. My point is that it doesn't take as much effort to go mixed as I think some people are making it out to be, and it is fully possible to go Physically biased and still be capable of using a mixed set.

Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer combo is not comparable to Overheat/Leaf Storm lol. There is no drawback to the former, while there is a pretty big one to the latter. Overheat and Leafstorm would go best on mixed sets but I wouldn't use them both on the same set unless you're doing something like Specs lol. If you're theorymonizing a DD set I'd fuck Overheat and just go with Flare Blitz + Life Orb, which does 106.6% - 125.7% if you're using max atk and jolly. Really, what the fuck would you be needing Overheat for if you had that =/?

 

[neverender1862]

First of all... I'm wondering why it has Zap Cannon in its movepool when it obviously won't be able to make good use of it?

I like the idea of Pyroak turning into a bulky sweeper. If Pyroak had a higher Atk, then it might be able to make better use of Rock Head. I mean, it has Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer, so why not raise its Atk?

I'm thinking of a stat spread like: 105/95/100/95/100/60. At least it can function better as a sweeper that way. With higher SpAtk, at least it won't turn into a double of Snorlax or Rhyperior. Also, it does retain its bulk.

I also support Flash Fire as another ability. It would have more opportunity to switch in.

Edit: White Smoke is also decent.

Hope I helped.

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

Scoopapa was who I was refering to when I was talking about swapping the attack stats. And lets not forget that Pyroak is designed to be a tank, not a life orb sweeper. Life Orb would lower his survivability (for lack of a better word) considerably. You do have a point with keeping the special attack lower and still being a mixed sweeper. How about a 120/95/95/80/90/78 spread?

 

[Plus]

Scoopapa was who I was refering to when I was talking about swapping the attack stats. And lets not forget that Pyroak is designed to be a tank, not a life orb sweeper. Life Orb would lower his survivability (for lack of a better word) considerably. You do have a point with keeping the special attack lower and still being a mixed sweeper. How about a 120/95/95/80/90/78 spread?

I'm not "how abouting" any spread in particular, and frankly I don't really care or give a damn if I don't see any evidence, nor am I compromising with any; however, it seems that you're vacillating between a tank and a bulky sweeper, both which are quite similar statwise but perform differently function wise. If you looked at something like Metagross, you could see a tank and a bulky sweeper in it, it's just the set and the spread that dictates this role in the team. Could you tell me the difference in stat distribution between the two? There is slim to none.

Agiligross versus a Stealth Rock support Metagross is a good example of "Bulky Sweeper" and "Tank". Some other examples would be Sub Toxic Zapdos and Offensive Zapdos, or LO Cyclohm and Stall Cyclohm. I don't see what you think makes Pyroak a tank and only a tank -- frankly I don't even think that you are thinking this way considering you just theorymon'd a DD set, which falls under a Bulky Sweeper category. A sweeper is not only the glass cannon bombers like Infernape and Azelf, but also bulkier variants of the sweeper category that can also serve as tanks due to their movepool and bulk, like those I have just mentioned.

If you're going to make Pyroak a SubSeeder ( and hopefully not have it outclassed by something like Breloom ), then so be it. You could also have Pyroak be a bulky sweeper that will blow your opponent out of the water, and you could even have both of these in one. With all the "LEECH SEED YEAHHH" and the "HEAD SMASH KILL EVERYTHING YEAHHHH" going around in this thread like a dead horse, It's definitely capable of fitting these two roles into Pyroak, just like Pokemon in OU do.

 

[zarator]

To the people who would want Pyroak to get Head Smash, I have some data for you to consider. The following are damage calculations based upon these assumptions:

1) Pyroak has base 95 Atk (which is the most common value I have seen around in these revised stat spread submissions) and 60 Speed
2) Pyroak uses a Jolly Nature, invests 252 EVs in its Attack stat (boasting a 289 Atk total) and holds a Life Orb
3) Pyroak has a Dragon Dance under its belt.

Legend:
Bolded Pokémon are never OHKOed after a Dragon Dance with SR factored in.
Italicized Pokémon carry, with a noticable frequency, a Choice Scarf, and outspeed +1 Pyroak when Scarfved
Underlined Pokémon naturally outspeed +1 Pyroak

Now, against Flare Blitz:
252 HP/4 Def Timid Fidgit: 72,34%-85,28% (2HKO)
252 HP/252 Def Bold Fidgit: 53,30%-62,69% (2HKO)
Every variant of Metagross: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/168 Def Bold Rotom-A: 74,34%-87,83% (2,56% OHKO with SR)
Every variant of Kitsunoh: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Scizor: >100% (OHKO)
0 HP/252 Def Calm Blissey: 93,55%-100% (OHKO with SR, 58,97% OHKO without)
Every variant of Jirachi: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Skarmory: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Celebi: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/ 40 Def Careful Revenankh (using revised stats): 82,14%-96,68% (15,38% OHKO with SR)
252 HP/252 Def Impish Revenankh (using revised stats): 60,46%-71,43% (2HKO)
0 HP/4 Def Timid Gengar: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/40 Def Impish Gliscor: 62,99%-74,58% (2HKO)
0 HP/4 Def Jolly Gliscor: 87,63%-100% (OHKO with SR, 20,52% OHKO without)
Every variant of Magnezone: >100% (OHKO)
0 HP/0 Def Naive Azelf: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Lucario: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/0 Def Adamant Machamp: 96,35%-100% (OHKO with SR, 79,49% OHKO without)
Every non-Heatproof variant of Bronzong: >100% (OHKO)
252HP/ 252 Def Heatproof Impish Bronzong: 58,88%-69,53% (2HKO)
Every variant of Syclant (using revised stats): >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Forretress: >100% (OHKO)
0 HP/4 Def Timid Jolteon: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Roserade: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Breloom: >100% (OHKO)

Now, against Wood Hammer:
Every variant of Colossoil: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Tyranitar: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Stratagem: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/220 Def Adamant Arghonaut (Unaware factored in): 83,09%-98,55% (28,21% OHKO with SR)
Every variant of Swampert: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Starmie: >100% (100% OHKO)
252 HP/252 Def Bold Suicune: 99,50%-100% (OHKO with SR, 92,31% OHKO without)
0 HP/0 Def Jolly Flygon: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/180 Def Timid Flygon: 82,69%-97,93% (20,51% OHKO with SR)
Every variant of Dugtrio: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Vaporeon: >100% (OHKO)
0 HP/0 Def Naughty Kingdra: >100% (OHKO)
180 HP/0 Def Adamant Kingdra: 95,83%-100% (OHKO with SR, 74,36% without)
12 HP/12 Def Modest Empoleon: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/0 Def Adamant Empoleon: 91,94%-100% (87,18% OHKO with SR, 46,15% OHKO without)
252 HP/160 Def Calm Empoleon: 77,42%-91,40% (2HKO)
252 HP/120 Def Calm Tentacruel: >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/252 Def Impish Hippowdon: 94,29%-100% (OHKO with SR, 66,67% without)

Now, against Head Smash:
0 HP/ 4 Def Timid Latias: 92,72%-100% (OHKO with SR, 53,85% OHKo without)
0 HP/0 Def Naive Salamence (intimidate factored in): >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/180 Def Jolly Salamence (intimidate factored in): 85,28%-100% (OHKO with SR), 2,56% OHKO without)
0 HP/0 Def Naive Heatran: 75,23%-88,85% (7,69% OHKO with SR)
0 HP/4 Def Jolly Gyarados (intimidate factored in): >100% (OHKO)
156 HP/96 Def Adamant Gyarados (intimidate factored in): >100% (OHKO)
252 HP/252 Def Impish Gyarados (intimidate factored in): 73,10%-86,29% (79,49% OHKO with SR)
0 HP/4 Def Timid Cyclohm: 62,18%-73,39% (2HKO)
180 HP/212 Def Bold Cyclohm: 42,29%-49,75% (90,53% 2HKO with SR)
0 HP/0 Def Naive Infernape: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Zapdos: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Dragonite: >100% (OHKO)
Every variant of Togekiss: >100% (OHKO)



Now, out of the list of possible checks, we have:

• Fidgit: He needs Sludge Bomb in order to effectively counter Pyroak
• Rotom-A: The only appliance which can truly fight back is Rotom-S, which certainly isn't the most useful variation.
• Kitsunoh: It cannot do major damage to Pyroak before biting the dust, and Pyroak is immune to Will-o-Wisp
• Jirachi: Like, Kitsunoh, Scarfrachi does not pack enough power to stop Pyroak reliably
• Revenankh: the only spread which can afford to switch into DD Pyroak is the Impish one, and it needs Stone Edge to fight back
• Gliscor: Stone Edge or Aerial Ace are safe bets. Gliscor actually has a good chance of beating Pyroak, but it risk switching into a special version
• Azelf: Aside from the fact that usually holds the lead position, it has a shot at destroying Pyroak with Psychic
• Bronzong: The bolded variant can at best set up a Reflect and then Explode, but it is a sitting duck against the Subseed set.
• Syclant: Cannot afford to switch in, but a high powered Ice Beam, Bug Buzz or Blizzard can bring Pyroak down
• Jolteon: It is OHKOed, but it cannot OHKO back
• Colossoil: It is a very risky switch in, but if it has Stone Edge (AND Choice Scarf), it can check Pyroak somehow
• Tyranitar: What said for Colossoil holds true for Tyranitar, too
• Stratagem: Only reliable as a revenge killer, quite risky to switch in directly.
• Starmie: Much like Stratagem, with the only difference being that, even with Hydro Pump, if Starmie is timid it needs a Life Orb to OHKO Pyroak (assuming SR is up)
• Flygon: Similar to Colossoil
• Dugtrio: A sort of extreme version of Colossoil in this regard. It is a VERY very risky switch in, but if it gets in unscathed and pack Stone Edge it WILL destroy DD Pyroak no matter what
• Empoleon: The Defensive Penguin set is the only possible counter, but it lacks enough firepower
• Latias: A good revenge killer, but only if it packs a Choice Scarf
• Cyclohm: Maybe the only true possible counter to this Pyroak. It can Thunderwave it, recover off the damage and hit it hard with Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor. Like Gliscor, however, it does not like switch into special sets (which may carry Earth Power)
• Togekiss: A reliable revenge killer with Air Slash, perhaps the only one out of possible revenge killers who can afford to switch in (fearing only Head Smash)

So, this is what we get. 3 actually viable "counters" (Gliscor, Togekiss and Cyclohm), and some shaky revenge killers or checks. Now, this wouldnt be so much of a problem as it is, if not for the fact that Pyroak is damn bulky. It resists Bullet Punch and is neutral to every other priority move. You cannot bring him down like you would do with Salamence or Tyranitar. Most often than not, even with no EV investment, Pyroak will be able to answer at least one time to his would-be counters for heavy damage.



However, so far I assumed only a very conservative EV spread. Atk 95, Spd 60 and maybe just a bit less bulk than what Pyroak has now. But let's take a look at the submitted spreads, and to how they change the results above.

• HD: Tyranitar no longer outspeeds with a Choice Scarf. No Pokémon out of those listed above outspeeds naturally +1 Pyroak anymore. Damage calcs stay unchanged
• Zarator: Tyranitar no longer outspeeds with a Choice Scarf. Starmie, Syclant and Azelf now need a Choice Scarf in order to outspeed Pyroakafter a Dragon Dance. Damage calcs stay unchanged.
• Zystral: Tyranitar no longer outspeeds with a Choice Scarf. No Pokémon out of those listed above outspeeds naturally +1 Pyroak anymore. Damage calcs become slightly more deadly.
• Deck Knight: No Pokémon, from those listed above, outspeed Pyroak anymore with a Choice Scarf bar Infernape, Azelf, Syclant, Gengar, Stratagem, Jolteon and Latias. Damage calcs become slightly less deadly.
• Neverender: Nothing of the damage calcs or the counter/check list changes.

In my opinion, the only way to make Head Smash not gamebreaking is removing Dragon Dance from Pyroak's revised movepool, or water down Pyroak stats. Neither of the solutions satisfy my taste, hence why I propose to ditch Head Smash and keep Stone Edge (although Sone Edge is still very powerful if you check the damage calcs above and change Head Smash ones accordingly, maybe the best thing to do is stick with Rock Slide).

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

Adamant Pyroak
120/95/95/80/90/78
Life Orb
One DDance
(Stealth Rock is in play)
Fidgit=2HKO (Wood Hammer)
Rotom-A=OHKO (Flare Blitz)
Metagross=OHKO (Flare Blitz)
Kitsonuh=OHKO(Flare Blitz)
Scizor=OHKO (Flare Blitz)
DDance Tyranitar=OHKO (Wood Hammer)
Blissey=OHKO (Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer)
Latias=2HKO (If given Stone Edge)

If you didn't notice, this is the top six most used pokemon in the CAP metagame.