RU CCAT (STEP 4 - PLAYTESTING)

[Lady Shinki]

Roselia, Rotom, Cryogonal

We need a reliable attack to get rid of hard counters to Rhydon like Gligar. Spin support isn't really necessary, though it certainly helps widen the pool of other teammates we can use.

 

[Vratix]

I didn't think no spinner was an option but if it is I would like to change my vote to qwilfish, misdreavus, no spinner

I understand the support for Rotom is certainly overwhelming the support for Misdreavus but my first choice is Missy and I certainly will not change my vote to something I don't want in light of imminent defeat to Rotom.

No spinner gives us different and more adaptable options to finish out the team and as far as I can tell only eliminates things like Moltres (admittedly, awesome) and Scyther (meh)

 

[canno]

Qwilfish, SubSplit Rotom, Claydol

 

[Drifloon]

Qwilfish, Misdreavus, no spinner/Cryo if needed

 

[zdrup15]

Well the voting period is finally over (damn you college life)!!! The Pokemon you chose are:

Spiker: Qwilfish (almost everyone chose it)
Spinblocker: Rotom (again, not a doubt here)
Spinner: Claydol (closest vote here but people agreed SR was too important to choose Cryogonal or Hitmonchan)

Ok people, we're so close now I can almost see the team! We have LO SD + RP Rhydon, Utility Qwilfish, SubSplit Rotom, and Spinner Claydol (set names according to their analyses to avoid any confusion).

Now I won't narrow down the Pokemon you can vote on because I trust you guys to know a lot about the metagame by now. So now you should propose two Pokemon (and their sets) that synergyze well with the team and can help it either by helping Rhydon break the few walls it can't, giving it free switches and free set-up turns, or sweeping if Rhydon fails (because every team should have a plan B).

This stage will last till Nov. 12th 00:00 GMT!

 

[No Luck Involved]

We desperately need a solid answer to Blizzspam Hail teams. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[De0x1]

Regen, Slowking is okay at checking Blizzard spamming pokes, but it gets kind of destroyed by SubSplit Rotom-F...., Then again, what doesn't? We could also possibly add Lanturn which helps with Heal Bell support and slow volt switch, etc. I reccomend possibly adding Scarf-Scyther because of his 4 times resistance to grass as well as being able to check +1 Lilligant if it can come in safely with Technician boosted Aerial Ace or U-turn giving you momentum if they switch out.

 

[Lady Shinki]

I don't know about synergy with Rhydon, but Swellow is one of the most reliable late-game cleaners we can find. Scarfed Sawk is also a pretty good answer to straight blizzspam teams, as we can get a couple layers of spikes down with Qwilfish then clean up with Close Combat after using Rhydon to weaken their main physical wall/ghost.

We also need a special attacker that can take down most of the physical walls of the tier while being a valid sweeping threat on its own. Omastar and non-pass Gorebyss are both solid options, as is something fun like Nasty Plot Jynx or Mr. Mime, both of who get great coverage and can outspeed/beat most of the walls of the tier. I love gimmick sets, so another mixed wallbreaker could be SunnyBeam Entei, who could also function as a niche Hail counter as he can switch in on Blizzards and change the weather.

 

[Honko]

I think Scarf Primeape would be a solid addition to the team. Besides being a nice late-game cleaner upper that can pick up Rhydon's leftovers, it's a good check to both Lilligant and Blizzspam, which are two of this team's main weaknesses right now. Unfortunately it doesn't help beat Gligar, so the last member of the team would need to cover that.

Other ideas for backup sweepers/cleaners: SD + Acrobatics Sceptile, Galvantula

 

[canno]

Galvantula is, IMO, one of the best offensive partner for Rhydon. It can take down Grass and Water types with STAB Electric and Bug type attacks with a nice base Special Attack. He can also attempt to destroy Physical Walls that could otherwise stop Rhydon.
Maybe a Specs Set could be used?
Galvantula @ Choice Specs
Compoundeyes
4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spe (Timid +Spe -Atk)
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball
- Volt Switch / Hidden Power [Water]

Thunder and Bug Buzz are main STAB, Thunder having a reliable accuracy of about 90%, and with Specs, a lot of damage will be done. Bug Buzz is the other STAB to his Grass-types that don't give a fuck about Thunder. Energy Ball is for Quagsire, who would otherwise wall Galva and ignore Rhydon's boosts. Volt Switch is for keeping pressure on the opponent while you switch out. It's also a nice move to have on a choice user. Hidden Power Water can be used instead to hit things that resist the main STAB super effectively (Rotom-H, other Rhydons, ect.)

Other team mate would have to do something about Blizzspam

 

[Pocket]

I suggest Rest Talk + Whirlwind Munchlax. It provides this team with much needed special walling capabilities, while its Fighting weakness is well covered. Even more, it can make use of Whirlwind to stack up entry hazard damages that are laid. The greatest support comes from its Body Slam, with the move's 30% paralysis rate greatly enhancing Rhydon's sweep. Not too sure if Munchlax is eligible in a Spike-stacking offense, though, despite it making good use of Spikes :x

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Body Slam | Whirlwind | Rest | Sleep Talk

I agree with No Luck Involved and a few others that Gallade would be a great support to this team. It can go bulky Bulk Up, it can go LO Swords Dance, but either way it needs Ice Punch to lure and destroy Claydol and Gligar, the two mons that Rhydon will struggle to break.

For instance -

bulky bulk up:
Gallade @ Leftovers
Drain Punch | Ice Punch | Bulk Up | Taunt

LO Sweeper
Gallade @ Life Orb
Close Combat | Ice Punch | Swords Dance | Night Slash

I am more partial to the LO Sweeper sets, because it doesn't just maim Claydol or Gligar, but DESTROYS them. +2 Close Combat from a Jolly Gallade also OHKOs Tangrowth 62.5% of the time after SR + 1 Spikes (75-89%). It just makes better use of the hazards imo.

necro EDIT: +2 CC OHKOs Tangrowth, not 2HKO x_x

 

[Ewil]

Personally i run Scolipede as an offensive choice and T-spikes setter, his speed and good attack make him awesome to use and the EdgeQuake coverage+STABMegahorn grants a lot of SE damage and the opponent never knows if you set-up or kill things, i prefer it sashed to have a chance to sweep against things like Lilligant with+1-2-3-etc.

Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Trait: Swarm
Nature: Jolly
4HP/252ATK/252SPE

-Toxic Spikes/Sword Dance
-Megahorn
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake

This last, Lilligant is an awesome special sweeper and sleep inducer to use and covers 2 rhydon's weakness in Water and Grass. The standard LO set is the best choice, since Rhydon can cripple steel type that normally gives to Lilli big problems.

Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyl
Nature: Timid
4HP/252 SPA/252SPE

-Sleep Powder
-Quiver Dance
-Giga Drain
-HP Rock

Can i ask the set of subsplit Rotom ? i suppose that he have to be bulky but i wanna know for sure. Thanks

 

[Twannes]

Most subsplit rotom have max Speed and Max SpA iirc.

Galvantula is a good addition to the team, but then you would need a mon to stop both blizzspam and stuff like moxiecrook.

 

[No Luck Involved]

Rhydon already stops Moxiekrook pretty hard (we have levitators to take care of EQ) so I don't think that is a great threat but always something to be wary of.

I like the suggestions of Fighting Pokemon, I think the team might appreciate a Scarfed Fighting type such as Primape, Gallade or Medicham to both clean up and to threaten Hail. Primeape actually sounds really good but I've always found that its bulk always lets it down and it never performs as well as you imagine it :( It deserves testing though.

I really like Pocket's suggestion of Munchlax and Gallade too. The Gallade set I was thinking of was SpDef Bulky BU + Taunt because it beats all physical walls in the tier (lols at Gligar and Claydol after they are Taunted) and the only Pokemon that threaten it are powerful super effective physical attackers: so Honchkrow, Scyther and Archeops who are mostly handled by Rhydon very nicely. Bulky Gallade also only needs one turn of set up to utterly annihilate Hail teams. This would leave us really weak to hyper offense teams that pile on the pressure from turn 1, so Munchlax could work quite well with it; spreading the spikey love with Whirlwind and handling Lilligant quite well.

But something that keeps nagging me is the potential a Wish passer would bring to the team. Rhydon itself would absolutely love Wish, so would Qwilfish, Claydol and it could potentially make them function much better (being bulky and everything). The other team members would of course appreciate it as well (what wouldn't lol) so I'm tempted to suggest Clefable in the third slot. I'm absolutely not sure about this because this leaves us open to Lilligant again and a bit weaker to Hail but maybe it will be worth it. Needs testing! Hopefully we can get loads of good ideas together and test them all!

 

[Furosuto]

One thing that caught my mind is that rhydon is absolutely walled by cofagrigus. I think we need an answer to that. Lilligant is gonna be killing this guy, and I think we should watch out for shell smash users alike. So I'm thinking SD scolipede. With megahorn as primary STAB, rockslide and earthquake for coverage, it's pretty hard to take down.

Now that was for shell smash, and lilligant coverage. Now as for blizzspam, something that is fighting/ghost/dark? I think that hairyama could do the trick. It can beat up the blizzard users.

Hairyama is not really a good cofagrigus counter, but the guts boost helps. And as I said before, using thick fat it can go into hail teams and take the hits.

For a cofagrigus user....I'm stumped. It's hard to think of something that can wall the coffin mon AND blizzspammers. But I think hairyama and scolipede would make awesome additions to the team.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Don't forget Tangrowth as a full stop to Rhydon, as it stands only Qwilfish and Rotom can handle it, and neither of them can do so very effectively. I am thus, still in support of Gallade,be it SD or Bulk Up to join the team, it can set up on both Tangrowth and Cofagrigus depending on the moves being run and is imo one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier.

 

[Cherub Agent]

can gallade really setup on tangrowth? sleep powder while he SDs, and power whip hurts.

I'd like to suggest Moltres, since it utterly destroys tangrowth and cofagrigus, loves the spikes and spin support we have, and can get itself an ice resistance through Roost

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

The Bulk Up set can, although you have topredict well if it has Power Whip. Giga Darin=fail though.

 

[canno]

Things that can ruin Rhydon's Day
Tangrowth
Cofagrigus
Lilligant
Blizzspam

As far as I can see, we need 2 partners that can stop 2 of these things.

Cofag can be stopped with a Fighting-type and so can Blizzspam.
That leaves Lilligant and Tangrowth.
To damage Tangrowth the most, it must be a special attacker.
To damage Lilligant, it must be faster and it must hit hard. A physical attacker is better on Lilligant because of the SpDef boost, but she's pretty fragile, so I don't think it matters that much.
Both of these are Grass-type.

Knowing this, I think the two partners should be A Guts Fighting-Type (Haryama) or Munchlax (Thick Fat + RestTalk. He can also absorb some Sleep Powders if he needs to) and either Moltres (Lilligant and Moltres have same Base Speed), Galvantula (Faster than Lilligant), Accelgor (Really fast, Base 100 Special Attack), Sawsbuck (Counters both with Sap Sipper), Bouffalant (Sap Sipper), or Porygon-Z (Ice beams from this bro are going to hurt, has same Base Speed as Lilligant)

 

[Scoopapa]

I wouldn't consider a guts fighting-type to be a great cofagrigus counter considering Mummy.

 

[canno]

I wouldn't consider a guts fighting-type to be a great cofagrigus counter considering Mummy.

>< I keep forgetting about Mummy for some reason.

Gallade and Moltres could work as partners, since Moltres is immune to Will-O-Wisp. But then Speed Tie with Lilligant could happen.

 

[marilli]

I feel that our team has an uncomfortable weakness to Gligar (which people have already mentioned) and opposing Subsplit Rotom. Claydol and Qwilfish are both set-up fodder, Rhydon takes a ton from Shadow Ball because he has no Eviolite, he has to rely on Stone Edge hitting multiple times, etc. I like SubCM Entei for this very reason: he'll often lure in Gligar, burn it with Lava Plume and make it useless. It also checks Blizzspam teams very nicely. Not to mention, he's an okay response to SubSplit Rotom.

Remaining weaknesses? Cofag, Lilli, and Tangrowth. Look no further than this guy right here. He's really underrated, and this is basically the standard set with a twist:

Bouffalant @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Sap Sipper
-Taunt
-Head Charge
-Earthquake
-Megahorn

Beats most stall / bulky offense teams that rely on Tangrowth / Slowking / Steelix core by itself.

Throwing my support behind Gallade, though.

 

[Pocket]

+2 LO Night Slash from Gallade does 67-79% to 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus. This means, that even if Cofagrigus Wisped Gallade, it will die to the next Night Slash. It can switch out after it burned Gallade, but then it's not going to be tanking hits from Rhydon anymore.

+2 LO Close Combat OHKOs Tangrowth after SR + 1 Spikes (62.5% of the time).

EDIT: Hmm, Amarillo's suggestions are also very intriguing - deals with the same threat pretty effectively. I am not convinced that SubCM Entei lures in Gligar, though...

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

100% supporting the CM Entei suggestion as it also beats Tangriwth easiky and sets up on non-Haze Cofagrigus as well. I think that its a great suggestion to patch our weaknesses together.

if I'm reading the thread correctly that wouldngive this particular iteration Claydol, Qwilfish, Rotom, Rhydon, Gallade, and Entei, although consensus on Gallade and Entei would have to be reached.

 

[Furosuto]

Actually, moltres would be a great partner for rhydon. Taking care of lilligant and cofagrigus is huge. Plus, we can give it a timid nature to outspeed! We would have to be careful of the stray HP rock though.

And that leaves the last opening. I say it should be either hitmonlee, hairyama, or scolipede. All of them have their advantages and disadvantages. Hairy is for blizz spammers with thick fat. Scolipede can SD and outspeed pretty much anyting not scarfed. And hitmonlee can just hit like a truck.