RU Teambuilding

[TheMexican]

Gallade (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Leaf Blade / Shadow Sneak

Role: Physical Sweeper
What it does: With its avarage bulk, decent speed and very good attack stats, after a single boost it can sweep entire teams. I mean this monster should really get more love, with a single boost it reaches an outstanding 766 Attack! And with 200 EVs in HP it can take several hits and heal simply back with that stab drain punch, it can even beat the mighty metang!!!. Lum berry provies it just a one time protection against status, and it lets it set up on opponents like non-dragon tail slowking, or sleep powder Tangrowth even easier. Zen headbutt is a very nice stab attack that doesnt let stuff like Cofragrigus and Qwilfish wall this monster, and it also hits the newly dropped Nidoqueen which has already a nice usage. Leaf Blade lets you hit Quagsire and Slowking which are very important, however Shadow sneak lets you hit Rotom just any other fast ghost types, it really just depends on the rest of your team.
Good Teammates: Entry hazards really come in handysince most if its counters are weak to rocks, Aerodactyl and rhydon are some examples as they resist stuff like air slash from moltres or brave bird from braviary and threat them with stabbed rock attack. Also SD taunt Drapion gets a special mention as it beats problematic ghost types like Cofragigus andcan take non hp groud/unboosted sigyliph down too. Also Gallade can bring down stuff like Steelix and Poliwrath which otherwise would wall drapion.
What counters it: Almost anything can have a good switch in to this guy, but it can be easily revenged kill by stuff like Acrobatics Archeops, Airslash Moltres or Sigyliph, or even aerial ace slyther. Also escavalier could take a hit or two and answer with that amazing Megahorn stab.
Oh yeah and of course Scarfed braviary.
Any Additional Info: Gallade should always be a threat to cover in any team. Idk why people havent had said anything about him

 

[DittoCrow]

Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Volt Switch / Rest
- Thunder Wave / Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Heal Bell / Protect

Role: Special Wall
What it does: Lanturn has remarkably high HP and usable Special Defense, but what really makes it good is its Electric / Water typing, Volt Absorb ability, and good support moves. It walls many special attackers such as Moltres, Manectric, Galvantula, Magmortar, Magneton, Omastar (to an extent), Typhlosion, Slowking, Rotom, Cryogonal, and more. It's a great pivot on offensive teams, absorbing hits then Volt Switching out to give you the momentum. It also spreads paralysis, and can cure sweepers or walls from status with Heal Bell. You should use RestTalk if you need Lanturn to stay alive for a while; this works best on defensive oriented teams. Lanturn has a lot of resistances which makes it a great wall.
Good Teammates: Good teammates are those who appreciate cleric support, such as Steelix. Cryogonal is also a good teammate, as together, Lanturn and Cryogonal make a good specially defensive core and cover up each others weaknesses. Slower sweepers, such as Nidoqueen, appreciate Lanturn's paralysis support and benefit from the momentum Lanturn brings with Volt Switch. It's also good in a Fire/Water/Grass core as it takes on Fire-types well.
What counters it: Grass-types, such as Sceptile, Roselia, Rotom-C and Lilligant, are the biggest threats to Lanturn. Taking advantage of Lanturn's low Defense stat is also a good way to take it down, as it doesn't have reliable recovery.
Additional info: Use Volt Switch and Twave on offensive teams, RestTalk on defensive teams.

DON'T USE:

Munchlax (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 136 HP / 124 Def / 248 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind

Role: Special Wall
Why it's bad: Munchlax is terrible at absorbing special attacks. It doesn't have reliable recovery, no recovery in Leftovers, and most strong special moves can 3HKO it. This means that it will sometimes be 2HKOed after hazards damage by something like Magmortar. Munchlax is also set up fodder for a lot of Pokemon, such as Kabutops, who resists Body Slam. If you choose Whirlwind, you will take a lot of damage in the process and be unable to restore your health easily because Rest is so unreliable.
What counters it: Any strong Fighting-type or Pokemon with Psyshock. Most physical attackers also do a lot of damage, such as Kabutops and Druddigon. Taunt users such as Mandibuzz and Drapion also shut it down.
Any Additional Info: Don't use Munchlax.

 

[assassinfred]

Escavalier (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Return

Role: Wallbreaker
What it does: Escavalier has a monstrous attack stat that can rip holes through damn near anything. With a massive base 135 Attack Stat AND access to the strongest Bug- type move in the game, Escavalier hits almost anything really hard. Megahorn will be your primary attack here, as a STAB'd Choice Banded BP 120 move coming off of a base Attack stat of 135 is frightening to all but the most physical of walls (a resistance is almost required, too). Iron Head acts as a nice secondary STAB move and can hit the likes of Rhydon hard. Pursuit is perfect if you need to get a quick revenge kill in and is a great way to take out already weakened Slowking or Cofagrigus, especially if you predict the switch. Return adds some very nice neutral coverage to the set as well, hitting a lot of things very hard. Honestly, if Escavalier had gotten Drill Run from the move tutor, it would be damn near unstoppable.
Good Teammates: Due to Escavalier's abysmally slow Speed, Trick Room users such as Cofagrigus can really help it out, as in Trick Room there are very few things that will actually go before it. It also loves working with Pokemon that can absorb those pesky Fire- type attacks aimed at it such as Slowking, who is also an excellent counter to Magmortar and Moltres who would otherwise destroy Escavalier.
What counters it: Steelix is the best counter there is to Escavalier, as it completely walls every move it can throw it's way (why did you not give it Drill Run, Game Freak?). Aggron also does well at walling it. In terms of offensive threats, any Fire- type such as Moltres or Magmortar can chase it out, but they have to be weary about taking a hit.
Any Additional Info: If it was given Drill Run, Escavalier would possibly be the hardest Pokemon to wall in the tier, as it would now have a way to hit Steelix super effectively.

 

[Explorer]

I like the Escavailer set, because of it does what it's supposed to do, break walls. Why did it fall to RU in the first place?

The one thing I would change, particularly if using Escavailer on a TR team, is to swap out the Adamant nature in favor of a Brave nature to make it faster under Trick Room.

-------------

I used a Sigilyph set on an RMT (which was posted a few weeks ago), and after getting feedback from Zebraiken it has become much better. Here it is:

Sigilyph (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Calm Mind
-Psyshock
-Heat Wave (note: this slot was Ice Beam before B2W2)
-Roost
Role: Special sweeper
What it does: It sets up against slower special attackers and non-Haze Cofagrigus well so it can utilize +1 LO-boosted attacks for major damage. Psyshock helps Sigilyph get around special tanks because Psyshock hits the physical defensive stat but uses Sigilyph's special attack. Once the tutor moves for B2W2 came out, I added Heat Wave in place of Ice Beam so Sigilyph destroys Escavailer coming in with the desire to Pursuit-trap Sigilyph. Roost allows it to steadily set up, attack, and heal, until the team is entirely swept or Sigilyph succumbs to powerful attacks (more so physical attacks).
Good teammates: This set easily counters Fighting-types and Escavailer, plus Ferroseed, so Pokemon weak to the Stealth Rocks that didn't get set up can perform much better, most notably Typhlosion, which can burn up entire teams with STAB Eruption. Aggron also likes Fighting-types out of the picture so it can set up, plus Sigilyph is immune to its other main weakness, Ground-type moves. Many of the Dark-types that counter Sigilyph are destroyed by Fighting-types such as Hariyama, plus it can hit Drapion with a Bulk Up-boosted Earthquake.
What counters it: Dark-types are the best counters, because they are immune to Psyshock, and, they don't generally take much damage from Heat Wave. In particular, Spiritomb has good special defense, and has Sucker Punch AND Pursuit. With the right prediction, Spiritomb can easily KO Sigilyph, as can Drapion.
Additional Info: Sigilyph got a very large number of new special moves from B2W2, such as Signal Beam, but I find Heat Wave to be the most useful. Plus, no single type resists Psychic and Fire. Ice Beam can be used instead of Calm Mind for a third attacking move, against Flying-types and Torterra, but the other moves do enough damage.

 

[Sound]

Anyway, I have a wallbreaker now that's fairly good. I know that Explorer just posted a Sigilyph set, but this is something non standard and very different. And there's no rule against a pokemon appearing twice.

Sigilyph @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Air Slash
-Psyshock
-Psychic
-Trick

Role: Wallbreaker
What it does: A wallbreaker needs to break walls, and break walls Sigilyph does. Psyshock and Psychic are the crux moves of this set. Thanks to Tinted Lens doubling the power of resisted moves, you have no need of coverage moves. Modest Psyshock 2HKOs standard Slowking, OHKOs standard Cryogonal, and 2HKOs Escavalier after SR. Psychic 2HKOs Steelix, 2HKOs Uxie after SR, and 2HKOs Omastar. Air Slash is for Dark types, who are immune to your primary attacks. You really aren't able to effectively run a coverage move for them considering so many dark types have a secondary type that nullifies there standard weaknesses (Drapion, Mandibuzz, and Spiritomb), so Air Slash is the best option. Finally, you have Trick. Trick messes up anything which might be able to handle you. Mandibuzz? Trick you specs away and its useless. Revenge killing this thing is literally the only option.
Good Teammates: Due to the fact that this is sort of a mixed pokemon, both physical and special sweepers who benefit from the removal of walls love this floating totem pole. Specifically weaker but faster sweepers, such as Scyther, Sub CM Entei, and Klinklang.
What counters it: Two things beat this. A. Revenge killers. Modest is the nature of choice because you miss certain KOs without it. This leaves you more exposed to revenge killing by stuff like Manectric. B. If you're a bad predicter, don't use this. Unlike Yanmega in UU, who can throw out attacks and know they're going to make dents, Sigilyph is weaker. You have to use the appropriate attack for the appropriate wall if you want to weaken it. This doesn't undermine Sigilyph entirely: It still beats six of the best defensive pokemon in the tier with proper prediction, something very few others can lay claim to.
Additional info: HP Ground can be run for Drapion, though only the bulkiest variant can live more than two hits of Air Slash, and you don't really want to lose any of your other moves.

 

[alexwolf]

@The Mexican

Bulky SD Gallade + Taunt SD Drapion is an amazing offensive combo that i have used extensively in the past... And in general Bulky SD Gallade is one of the biggest threats for both offensive and defensive threats, and should definitely see more usage!

Now let's go to one of the best wallbreakers in the tier:

Absol (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Sucker Punch
- Night Slash
- Superpower
- Fire Blast

Role: Wallbreaker
What it does: Absol is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, and the strongest priority user in RU. Many offensive mons, such as Sceptile, Manectric and Magmortar, are ohkoed by Sucker Punch, with or w/o SR. Many defensive mons are ohkoed by its other 3 moves, such as Slowking and Tangrowth (he takes 75.74 - 89.1% from Fire Blast, ohko after SR + Spikes). And almost any other poke that isn't ohkoed by one of its moves is 2hkoed with the help of entry hazards. Absol also puts a lot of pressure if it comes into an opponents faster mon, and will switch out more often than not, in fear of Sucker Punch, and so prediction becomes very easy. I cannot count the number of times that i have done 65% to the opposing Steelix that my opponent brought in, as i forced out his faster mon. Finally, most of it's few counters (Qwilfish, Quagsire, and Poliwrath are the only Absol counters in the tier) get fucked up by a Night Slash crit, which conveniently enough, is not praying for hax at all, as Night Slash + Super Luck gives a 25% chance of landing a crit, almost the same chance as Scald's burn. So this means that Quagsire and Qwilifish will fail to wall Absol 25% of the time! Pretty nice no?
Good Teammates: It works very good with pokes that benefit from the absence of the Steel types/Tangrowth that it often lures and kills/weakens. Such mons are SD Drapion and SubDD Crawdaunt. It also works very well with a special attacker that can break through the mons that wall it (Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Quagsire) such as HP Grass Manectric and Galvantula.
What counters it: The only real counter is RestTalk Poliwrath, but Quagsire and Qwilfish work too 75% of the time.
Any Additional Info: Swords Dance is also an option in the last slot, if you want Absol to also act as a physical sweeper, but Absol rarely finds the time to set-up, and demolishing the stuff that try to wall you is way better than attempting to sweep with a very unreliable move.

 

[Bigblue]

@The Mexican

Bulky SD Gallade + Taunt SD Drapion is an amazing offensive combo that i have used extensively in the past... And in general Bulky SD Gallade is one of the biggest threats for both offensive and defensive threats, and should definitely see more usage!

Now let's go to one of the best wallbreakers in the tier:

Absol (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
- Sucker Punch
- Night Slash
- Superpower
- Fire Blast

This is a great set, but I think it is also a viable option to run baton pass over fire blast as you can still take out Tangrowth or it's actual checks like Poliwrath by going into an appropriate counter or Pokemon that can setup or just lay off huge hits.

 

[DittoCrow]

Absol is best with Swords Dance. It has lots of chances to boost because it forces a lot of switches (Slowking, Cofagrigus, etc.) At +2, Absol 2HKOes everything in the tier except for Quagsire. It even OHKOes Steelix with Superpower. Fire Blast in unnecessary imo, especially because Tangrowth is much less common now that Nidoqueen and Escavalier dropped.

 

[alexwolf]

Fire Blast is not just for Tangrowth. It also lets you ohko Escavalier, which is a big deal, as Esca is very popular, 2hko Steelix, (you can't 2hko him after the atk drop), physically defensive Amoonguus and finally ohkos Ferroseed. This is important if you want Absol to act as a wallbreaker, because it means that you don't have to drop your attack and defense every time you want to hit a steel type (which can be abused with smart switches easily, especially with regenerator cores). And even if Tangrowth is not as popular as it used to be, it still sees a lot of usage, so having a way to get past him is always good.

While SD can sweep from times to times, priority ruins him, and also faster mons that resist Dark, or have Sub/status move. This is why i don't like Absol as a sweeper, because Sucker Punch is so unreliable at sweeping... So, imo, Absol is a much better wallbreaker, rather than a physical sweeper.

@Bigblue

Baton Pass is an ok option, but if you want Absol to act as a wallbreaker you want as much coverage as possible. And if you expect the opponent's Poliwrath to come in, you can always bring in your electric type instead of attacking...

 

[Rakan]

It really depends on what you need absol to do and what your team needs. I've used the mixed variant and the SD variant, and both are very effective. Absol definitely has ample chances to set up, as it can easily force many switches, like DC said. Fire Blast is a nice move to deal with Steelix, Tangrowth, etc, but if your team doesn't have problems with Pokemon such as those, then running swords dance is a perfectly good idea.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah Omicron is right. This means that Absol is both a good wallbreaker and a sweeper, depending on the move you run. So you can put the set i posted in the wallbreaker section, and the same set with SD in the last slot, in the physical sweepers section...

 

[DittoCrow]

+2 Absol OHKOes Escavalier.

 

[alexwolf]

+2 Absol OHKOes Escavalier.

I didn't say that it doesn't. I was listing what Fire Blast does in the wallbreaking set. It has already been proven that Absol is good at both roles (sweeper, wallbreaker), so i can't see what you are arguing about...

 

[DittoCrow]

I'm saying that a +2 Superpower does the same things that Fire Blast can, except you have boosted attack. Unless you're using Fire Blast Absol as a lure (though it's not a very good one), Swords Dance is superior in every way. In fact, Swords Dance does an even better job at breaking walls!

 

[alexwolf]

SD Absol cannot break through physically defensive Amoonguss and defensive Tangrowth, which means that it won't be able to get past many defensive/balanced teams.

Also while using SD, you give to the opponent a free turn to bring in his faster Absol check, f.e. SubSplit Rotom, which isn't the case with all-out attacking Absol. Finally if you face an opposing steel-type that can hurt you, and you have no boosts (f.e. in a double switch) you can't ohko with Superpower, and you must lower your defense/attack in order to hurt it (for example against Escavalier or Ferroseed), while with Fire Blast you get a swift OHKO, and no drops.

So, imo, Fire Blast is needed in order to wallbreak effectively, as both Grass-types that i mentioned are noticeable defensive threats, and you can't claim to be one of the best wallbreakers if you can't get past them...

 

[DittoCrow]

SD Absol cannot break through physically defensive Amoonguss and defensive Tangrowth, which means that it won't be able to get past many defensive/balanced teams.

Amoonguss and Tangrowth aren't good in this metagame. The former is better, and it's barely 2HKOed by Fire Blast (with 252/0, and most should run SpDef anyways to take on Lilligant etc.) and it could even potentially miss. I would much rather break more common things like Steelix instead.

Also while using SD, you give to the opponent a free turn to bring in his faster Absol check, f.e. SubSplit Rotom, which isn't the case with all-out attacking Absol.

You obviously wouldn't SD if you see that they have Rotom. Fire Blast doesn't help you there either. Having Swords Dance or Fire Blast doesn't make a difference in this case.

Finally if you face an opposing steel-type that can hurt you, and you have no boosts (f.e. in a double switch) you can't ohko with Superpower, and you must lower your defense/attack in order to hurt it (for example against Escavalier or Ferroseed), while with Fire Blast you get a swift OHKO, and no drops.

You should never be switching Absol into anything, as it's really frail. I don't see how a double switch could happen unless you mispredict badly.

Swords Dance has a much better chance at sweeping as Superpower destroys the things that usually wall it, such as Steelix and Poliwrath, who Fire Blast doesn't work against, and also boosts the power of Sucker Punch which prevents faster Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Braviary from coming in as it only OHKOes at +2.

 

[alexwolf]

Amoonguss and Tangrowth aren't good in this metagame. The former is better, and it's barely 2HKOed by Fire Blast (with 252/0, and most should run SpDef anyways to take on Lilligant etc.) and it could even potentially miss. I would much rather break more common things like Steelix instead.

What do you mean barely, and why does it matter? Fire Blast 2hkoes 62.11% of the time w/o SR, and always with SR, and has a very realistic chance of hitting twice (72%). If you start talking about Fire Blast's accuracy to hit twice then you might as well never use Lilligant because Sleep Powder can miss. The point is that more often than not, Fire Blast will 2hko what it needs to, and this gives you an advantage. And pls don'r bring up Steelix, because he is 2hhkoed by Fire Blast, so you have no problem with him.

You obviously wouldn't SD if you see that they have Rotom. Fire Blast doesn't help you there either. Having Swords Dance or Fire Blast doesn't make a difference in this case.

The point is that you will spend 1 turn using Swords Dance, and this can be abused by your opponent. For example let's say that the opponent has one faster mon that you ohko with Sucker Punch, Steelix and SubSpit Rotom. You bring in Absol after something dies, against the faster mon, and threaten it with Sucker Punch. If you use SD predicting the switch to Steelix, 3 things can happen... Opponent stays in and ohkoes, opponent brings in Steelix, or opponent brings in Rotom. So in 2 out of the 3 situations you are at a disadvantage(except if opponent brings in Steelix) if you use SD. But even if he brings in Steelix the mindgame goes on, as he can then bring in Rotom freely, on the predicted Superpower, or ohko you with Gyro Ball, predicting the Night Slash.

But with Fire Blast, you don't need to risk this. You can simply use Fire Blast, which damages both Rotom and Steelix badly (2hkoes both) instead of trying to guess between using SD or Night Slash (only to go to another mindgame the next turn). It is something like a middle ground between SD and Night Slash in this situation, and there are many other situations where it can come very handy. I have used it extensively, and i know very well the advantages it gives...

You should never be switching Absol into anything, as it's really frail. I don't see how a double switch could happen unless you mispredict badly.

If you have good predicting skills and you use a very offensive team, you can try and bring Absol in on a double switch, if you are almost sure that the opponent is going to switch out (this is not so hard to do, especially against stall teams, which are somewhat forced to play relatively safe, so if i have Manectric out against his Poliwrath, i can be almost sure that the opponent will be bringing in his Munchlax and make a double switch to my Absol). Difficult to happen but still a possible scenario, that has occurred to me quite a few times...

Swords Dance has a much better chance at sweeping as Superpower destroys the things that usually wall it, such as Steelix and Poliwrath, who Fire Blast doesn't work against, and also boosts the power of Sucker Punch which prevents faster Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Braviary from coming in as it only OHKOes at +2.

Fire Blast Absol doesn't usually attempt to sweep, but to wallbreak. Steelix is not problem for it as it easily 2hkoes with 2 Fire Blasts or Superpower + Fire Blast. Yeah SD Absol can do better against Poliwrath and some faster offensive mons that avoid the ohko from +0 SP, but Fire Blast helps also in many situations, as i have already mentioned...

Anyway i am tired of debating pointless things, if you want to include it, do so, if not, i don't really care as i already know how good it is, and what it does for my team.

 

[spuds4ever]

I agree with alexwolf, both FB and SD have viable uses.

On a different note, sound's specs sigi hasn't been considered yet, I'm trying to find out how it is better than its CM set, though. With CM, you become much harder to revenge kill from several of the tiers popular choices such as manetric and you get a lot more durability and a lack of a SR weakness and a free life orb. When you compare that to having some more power straight off the bat (and not even a lot if you are able to predict), I don't know if it's really worth it. Arguments for?

 

[DittoCrow]

What do you mean barely, and why does it matter? Fire Blast 2hkoes 62.11% of the time w/o SR, and always with SR, and has a very realistic chance of hitting twice (72%). If you start talking about Fire Blast's accuracy to hit twice then you might as well never use Lilligant because Sleep Powder can miss. The point is that more often than not, Fire Blast will 2hko what it needs to, and this gives you an advantage. And pls don'r bring up Steelix, because he is 2hhkoed by Fire Blast, so you have no problem with him.

That's why I don't use Lilligant anymore. I wouldn't use FB anyways because Amoonguss is rare as hell.

For example let's say that the opponent has one faster mon that you ohko with Sucker Punch, Steelix and SubSpit Rotom. You bring in Absol after something dies, against the faster mon, and threaten it with Sucker Punch. If you use SD predicting the switch to Steelix, 3 things can happen... Opponent stays in and ohkoes, opponent brings in Steelix, or opponent brings in Rotom. So in 2 out of the 3 situations you are at a disadvantage(except if opponent brings in Steelix) if you use SD. But even if he brings in Steelix the mindgame goes on, as he can then bring in Rotom freely, on the predicted Superpower, or ohko you with Gyro Ball, predicting the Night Slash.

You wouldn't SD if they have a solid Absol check such as Rotom. You wouldn't SD on something that can OHKO you. It's all about prediction bro (make the smartest move??), but Absol makes the smart move more often than not. I'm not going to read any more of these bs scenarios. I've played with Absol and I know what SD is capable of. Never once did I wish I had Fire Blast. No Pokemon is perfect, you can always create some stupid scenario on paper instead of in the actual game.

But with Fire Blast, you don't need to risk this. You can simply use Fire Blast, which damages both Rotom and Steelix badly (2hkoes both) instead of trying to guess between using SD or Night Slash (only to go to another mindgame the next turn). It is something like a middle ground between SD and Night Slash in this situation, and there are many other situations where it can come very handy. I have used it extensively, and i know very well the advantages it gives...

This is absurd. It's the same exact scenario that you posted above with Fire Blast > SD lol. Both scenarios require prediction. In the end, you have a 0% chance to sweep with Fire Blast, as either "the fast mon" will OHKO you, Rotom will Will-O-Wisp you or sub until Fire Blast misses, or you do ko Rotom and Steelix OHKOes you.

If you have good predicting skills and you use a very offensive team, you can try and bring Absol in on a double switch, if you are almost sure that the opponent is going to switch out (this is not so hard to do, especially against stall teams, which are somewhat forced to play relatively safe, so if i have Manectric out against his Poliwrath, i can be almost sure that the opponent will be bringing in his Munchlax and make a double switch to my Absol). Difficult to happen but still a possible scenario, that has occurred to me quite a few times...

lol- stopped reading at "If you have good predicting skills."

Fire Blast Absol doesn't usually attempt to sweep, but to wallbreak. Steelix is not problem for it as it easily 2hkoes with 2 Fire Blasts or Superpower + Fire Blast. Yeah SD Absol can do better against Poliwrath and some faster offensive mons that avoid the ohko from +0 SP, but Fire Blast helps also in many situations, as i have already mentioned...

SD wallbreaks better because it does more damage to its counters, as well as more damage to Pokemon in general. Fire Blast shouldn't be a main move. You OHKO Steelix with +2 Superpower. Gyro Ball OHKOes Absol.

Sorry for being rude, I'm pretty embarassed right now. This was the most ridiculous thing I have read. Creating scenarios on paper =/= actual gameplay. Also take this on irc if you want to continue 9.9

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Rotom is rare and is decent at best. Pretty frail Pokemon imo.

EDIT 2: Also why would Amoonguss even switch into Absol lol.

 

[Rakan]

Can we just settle this by saying what I said earlier? Both Fire Blast and Swords Dance have their merits, and both are viable on a team. It all depends on your team's needs. Yes, Swords Dance is probably more common and effective, but Fire Blast has that nice surprise factor.

Now everyone stfu and post more mons :]

 

[alexwolf]

So what will happen with the set i posted? As mentioned by other users (and me, would be easier to check and see if my post wasn't deleted) it has merit, so will it be included or not?

 

[Sound]

On a different note, sound's specs sigi hasn't been considered yet, I'm trying to find out how it is better than its CM set, though. With CM, you become much harder to revenge kill from several of the tiers popular choices such as manetric and you get a lot more durability and a lack of a SR weakness and a free life orb. When you compare that to having some more power straight off the bat (and not even a lot if you are able to predict), I don't know if it's really worth it. Arguments for?

The problem with CM is that while you're harder to kill, you're easier to phaze. Sigilyph only has 103 Base SpAtk. To put that into perspective, it's weaker than Tangrowth and only a notch above Accelegor in that department. The bearing on this is, Sigilyph is only average attack-wise and you will always need a boost to hit hard. Specs let you hit right off the bat, making it suited for wall breaking. CM can't do that and most walls can phaze it, making it very unsuited to be a wall breaker. Also, physical attacks will kill it like any other sweeper. Aerodactyl, Entei, and Archeops are all able to come in to revenge kill it. Also, if you don't carry HP Fighting, Steels can come in and defeat you easily.

And my primary arguement is; different goals. Specs aims to destroy the opponents defense, while CM can do similar, it simply doesn't do it as quick. If your opponent can phase you, even with Magic Guard keeping you from being worn down, you can't break down walls if they just constantly throw you out of the match or take away your boosts. CM is suited to sweeping after walls are removed. In conclusion: Different functions and purposes. It's one thing to say the pokemon functions better with a certain set, but if they have different purposes, they're still worth considering for a team spot. I.E. If you wanted to use a sweeper Slowking, would you use the Defensive set, or would you rather use the NP set?

 

[spuds4ever]

While you are easier to phaze, there's no unwritten law that says you have to set up before you can attack. There's very little power difference between LO and Choice specs, so as long as you hit a neutral move, you'll still do about the same while still keeping a lot more flexibility. While I appreciate you don't have to worry about t-wave or status from slowking, there really isn't much more benefit IMO.

I can't really see specs giving you any substantial advantage other than easing prediction which isn't really a good reason to be using a set over another which has a lot more perks.

 

[Sound]

Tinted Lens means you're always hitting with a neutral move. On the CM set, let's examine which two attacking moves you can use, and what walls you. First off: A succesful wall is when a move doesn't 2HKO. Secondly: No boosts, as per your statement about hitting hard immeaditly.

Psychic and Air Slash. Loses to Cryogonal, Uxie, Aggron, Steelix, Escavalier and Mandibuzz.

Psyshock and Air Slash. Loses to Aggron, Steelix, Escavalier, Omastar, Uxie, and Mandibuzz.

Psychic and Heat Wave. Loses to Cyrogonal (without SR), Uxie, Mandibuzz, and Slowking.

Psyshock and Heat Wave. Loses to Uxie, Mandibuzz, Omastar, and Slowking.

As you can see, CM Sigilyph can't go through walls without boosts, and even then, most of these don't become OHKOs.

One of the strengths of the Specs set is that it doesn't have 4MSS. With just Air Slash, Psyshock, and Psychic, backed by Tinted Lens empowering your resisted moves, the stuff that walls you whittles down to Mandibuzz. The arguement that they hit about the same is horrible because Specs can use Psyshock to beat Slowking, while CM can't. And this is just an example: The point is that Specs is harder to wall. CM, once you know the set, isn't. And you still haven't given me one reason that Specs Sigilyph isn't a good wallbreaker, only arguements that CM is a better sweeper. I concede CM is a good sweeper, and I haven't said anything to the contrary. What I have been saying is that CM can't break through walls and you've offered no proof to the contrary. Heck, in my opinion, CM shouldn't even be part of this debate. We're comparing apples and oranges set wise. When I posted this, I expected to be arguing whether Specs Moltres was a superior wall breaker. I even started planning the arguement in my head.

And you can't say that CM is a better choice of a team slot without knowing the team. Is CM Sigilyph good used alongside SubCM Entei, or would Entei prefer the wallbreaker? What about QD Lilligant? Which would it rather have as a team member?

 

[complete legitimacy]

Oh cool, Absol.

252 Attack Adamant +2 Life Orb Megahorn vs. 252/252+ Tangrowth 114.24%-134.40%
0 Sp. Atk Life Orb Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Tangrowth 76.25%-89.71%

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252 Attack Adamant +2 Life Orb Megahorn vs. 252/200+ Amoonguss 90.29%-106.22%
0 Sp. Atk Life Orb Fire Blast vs. 252/0 Amoonguss 49.72%-58.49%

it's barely 2HKOed by Fire Blast (with 252/0, and most should run SpDef anyways to take on Lilligant etc.)

The only time I would ever use Absol without Swords Dance is as a Pursuit trapper, but even then I'd rather use Spiritomb, Drapion, or Escavalier. Since Absol is so frail, it needs to OHKO everything to continue its sweep because if something can take its attacks, it's as god as dead. It doesn't even need a fourth move when it 2HKOes most walls in the metagame, and has the strongest priority move in the entire game that together with Superpower is only resisted by Croagunk as the only possible RU-usable (don't get this confused with viable though) Pokemon.

tl;dr: Megahorn > all
Can we remove Absol's All-Out Attacker set?