Salamence (Choice Scarf)

[CBManBearPig]

​

[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Outrage
Move 2: Earthquake / Brick Break
Move 3: Fire Blast
Move 4: Dragon Claw
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
Nature: Naive / Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd

Why this set deserves to be on site

• With Bagon's DW release, Outrage and Moxie become legal together, making CS Salamence an offensive juggernaut that can become nearly impossible to stop if it gets rolling
• Higher Speed and Attack than Dragonite and superior Speed and Bulk than Haxorus
• Reaches 553 Attack after 1 Moxie boost and 800 Attack after two, enough to 2HKO specially defensive Skarmory

Set Comments

• This set functions best as a late-game cleaner, easily destroying the remains of the opposing team
• For example, it can KO Dragonite at full
• May appear to be outclassed by Dragonite and Haxorus, but it sets itself apart from them both, as it has superior Speed and Attack to Dragonite and better bulk and Speed than Haxorus, as well as an excellent ability in Moxie
• Functions best with entry hazard support
• Outrage is the main attraction here, while Fire Blast and Earthquake pick off the Steel-types that serve as roadblocks to Salamence's sweep
• Brick Break is another option because being locked into Earthquake would cause obvious problems. Brick Break can shatter dual screens as well.
• Dragon Claw is also a secondary STAB move if one doesn't want to lock Salamence into Outrage
• The 252 EVs and a Naive nature allow Salamence to at worst tie with other base 100 Scarfers
• Naughty is still another option for a nature that provides more power, and +Speed 100 Scarfers aren't that common

Additional Comments:

• Fire Fang can also destroy Steel-types, but Fire Blast and Earthquake are superior due to their higher Base Power
• Stone Edge is another move that can 1HKO defensive Volcarona, something Outrage couldn't accomplish
• Salamence has access to many other physical moves, such as Shadow Claw and Thunder Fang, but those moves are generally inferior to the ones listed above

Teammates and Counters:

• Salamence is weak to Stealth Rock, which will limit the times that it can switch in and out, so a Rapid Spinner such as Starmie or Forretress will greatly help Salamence
• Forretress is especially useful in that it can also provide entry hazards to aid Salamence's sweep
• Magnezone eliminates Steel-types so that Salamence can spam Outrage freely
• Mamoswine and Weavile can destroy Salamence with Ice Shard
• For this reason, Infernape makes an excellent partner due to its ability to destroy the affirmentioned Ice-types as well as Steel-types such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn with a Mixed set

 

[malomyotismon]

outrage is illegal with moxie period, as it is only a 4th gen move tutor move, not an egg move.

 

[danilo]

Yeah, since Outrage is illegal, I don't see this set being viable. Earthquake plus Brick Break is pretty redundant and Fire Fang just doesn't make the cut imo.

 

[CBManBearPig]

It is legal, Outrage is a move that can be on DW Bagons in Rugged Mountain. I'll modify the other moves, however.

 

[malomyotismon]

Proof? I see no mention of it on serebii.

 

[Cherub Agent]

It's on Smogon. Only Outrage + Dragon Dance is illegal

 

[CBManBearPig]

http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/dreamworldattacks.shtml

Here. Next to Bagon you will see Outrage.

 

[malomyotismon]

I can confirm his statement, bagon dose indeed learn outrage in dw, possibly dragon dance as well mentioned on bulbapedia artical here- http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bagon

 

[-Tsunami-]

I can confirm his statement, bagon dose indeed learn outrage in dw, possibly dragon dance as well mentioned on bulbapedia artical here- http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bagon

It does learn Dragon Dance. A choice has to be made between Outrage and Dragon Dance, however. It is impossible to have both.

 

[danilo]

Ok, seems like Outrage is legal. Mention that Outrage ohkos Dragonite at full health(I believe). As i mentioned earlier, Brick Break plus Earthquake is very redundant, maybe have one of those things slashed and add Dragon Claw? Salamence's physical movepool is good so there's no reason to resort to bad coverage.

 

[Pocket]

Brick Break does have its uses - such as against Air Balloon Heatran or Tyranitar - but I have to say that Dragon Claw would be more useful and should be the primary choice, imo, especially if you're thinking of abusing the Moxie boosts.

Also Fire Fang is WEAK. Fire Blast, even with no investment, is much better for scoring 2HKOs on Skarmory and other Steel Types. I would also replace Fire Fang for Fire Blast.

 

[CBManBearPig]

Fixed the set, how does it look now?

 

[Xephyr]

Now the set looks perfect. Frankly I think it should be considered the standard for Salamence right now.

 

[danilo]

I haven't tested this set but i feel like Brick Break is better than Earthquake. Does flamethrower still 2ko a Skarmory? You should probably calc that because I'm sure it 2ko's Ferro.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Well, this thing's missing out on Aqua Tail.

Nitpicking, but perhaps Stone Edge warrants a mention just because Salamence can't OHKO Bulky Volcarona with Outrage, but can outspeed and do so with Stone Edge. Ideally, Salamence needs to keep both Outrage an Dragon Claw. The other two moves are subjective.

 

[CBManBearPig]

Fire Blast 2HKOs all Skarms. I also mentioned Stone Edge on the OP.

 

[Sei]

Do you think Choice Band can be slashed in or will it have to be categorized as another set? Salamence's speed backed up by Moxie could potentially make it a greater threat than CB Haxorus. And yeah, slashing in Aqua Tail and Stone Edge next to Fire Blast would probably be fine too.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Moxie Salamence cannot have Aqua Tail.

Also, Choice Scarf Salamence plays almost differently from its Band counterpart (which focuses on breaking through slower threats rather than revenge kill). Refer to Staraptor and Haxorus, both of which have separate Choice sets because of the noticeable difference in functions.

 

[CBManBearPig]

Okay, I think I'm ready for QC approvals / rejections.

 

[RaikouLover]

I'd at least slash Naughty with Naive. The extra speed in most cases is overkill. You only lose out on +natured boosters, which aren't that common (the ones that are, just aren't that strong, lol). I always use Neutral Base 100 scarfs and never regretted it. The power boost is noticeable too.

Earthquake is kinda shitty IMO. And Brick Break is weak, but DOES have utility in breaking screens. I'd probably use Outrage / Claw / Break / FB. Or even Aqua Tail slashed with FB since you could use this (as with anything) in the rain. You really wont want to use EQ much if at all. All Dragon move spam.

EDIT: I remember why I love Positive nature so much:

Naughty Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 85-100% (81.25% OHKO w/ SR)
Naive Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 77-91% (25% OHKO w/ SR)

Naughty Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 97-115% (81.25% Outright OHKO)
Naive Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 84-104% (25% Outright OHKO)

Little shit like that against frail mons I remember I always used ScarfChomp so shit like that is important, lol.

 

[NatGeo]

just thought i'd say for anyone thinking about Aqua Tail, it's illegal with Moxie.

 

[CBManBearPig]

Alright, I'll slash Brick Break next to Earthquake and Naughty next to Naive.

 

[Bloo]

There are currently 3 different Salamence sets up for QC approval. Instead of approving three different sets, I think it'd be better to find someone to revamp Salamence's entire analysis for the recent Moxie release. I think that'd be more efficient than having a ton of Salamence threads open as opposed to one.

Moving. For those interested in revamping Mence's analysis, I'll be posting in the reservation thread soon so someone can volunteer to do it.