Battle Spot Single Swampert and co.

[Arkahn]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to start some strat game on console, I dont like simulator because I like the breeding side in pokémon :)
I decided to start with one of my favorite pokémon, Mega-Swampert and try to build around him.
This team works sometimes really good and sometimes not, especially because of bulky water and grass pokémon.

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Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
- Protect

My main Mega in a Rain team, regular move set with Protect to mega-evolve safely.

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hex Shadow ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp Destiny Bond
- Protect

My back-up Mega, if there is to many Grass poke or some poke who can give troubles to Mega-Swampert, like Kang.
He has good synergy with Toed's Perish song.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Calm
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Foul Play

Swap Bulky Thundurus to this Porygon2, with the advices of cant say and Omastar68.

Dragonite @ Choice Specs
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor
- Surf

My secret weapon, as a Choice Spec sweeper, Dragonite is not common, most of the time my opponent think is a physical Dragonite and they dont think about Hurricane or Thunder with 100% hit rate or an empowered Surf !
This Dragonite works well as a Revenge killer or late game sweeper. And even without Rain, with Draco meteor, he can finish a team.

Politoed @ Eject Button
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Scald
- Encore
- Perish Song

The main tool for a Rain team. He has a good synergy with Mega-Gengar too, because of Perish song and Eject button into a Shadow tag.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

A good wall in a Rain team, he can damage easily most of the physical attacker like Kang, Garchomp or Salamence, handle fairy poke and use Stealth Rock if needed, most of the time if there is a Talonflame or Charizard Y.

Edit :

8/15 first team : Mega-Swampert - Politoed - Hippowdon - Charizard Y - Talonflame - Greninja

8/20 first change : Excadrill - Whismicott - Ferrothorn instead of Hippowdon - Charizard Y - Greninja

10/10 new version : Mega-Swampert - Politoed - Dragonite - Thundurus - Mega-Gengar - Ferrothorn

10/14 new changes : Porygon2 instead of Thundurus and change on the move-set of Gengar

 

[Omastar68]

hmm, interesting. I don't think I've ever seen 3 weathers together.

Talon seems kinda odd to me as it's the same type as Zard Y. S two 4x rock weaks, not very fun at all. The set doesn't really make sense, but nvm about that since I think you should replace it. My first idea for a mon was Klefki. Your team is leaning slightly towards physical defense, and priority Swagger really messes up special attackrs. You also cover Klefki's two weaknesses pretty well, and it likes rain and sand, while sun makes it tough on water types, and fire would be bad even in no weather. Also is a little better vs Thund, cuz that has the potential to roll right through your team. Also no such thing as a Prine berry.

I don't like Rest on Toed, I think you should use Focus Blast. That helps deal with Kang and stuff. Also it makes more sense to run 100 Def and 156 SpD evs to not waste any.

I'm really not sure about Greninja here. It doesn't really benefit from any weather here, except maybe sand to chip foes, tho that helps put it in range of more priority attacks too. It generally beats Thund, but a T-Wave is basically a kill on Gren, so it's really the same as if yer trading one for one. Something better wiyh Thund would be good, maybe also something that likes Sand. I was thinking Excadrill but idk. It hates rain and sun, so you really have to bring it with Hippo, so restricts yer options.

Honestly I think just having one weather would be best. Maybe two, like Zard and Hippo. I think three makles it too easy for an opponent to anticipate what you'll bring;

 

[Arkahn]

Talon seems kinda odd to me as it's the same type as Zard Y. S two 4x rock weaks, not very fun at all. The set doesn't really make sense, but nvm about that since I think you should replace it. My first idea for a mon was Klefki. Your team is leaning slightly towards physical defense, and priority Swagger really messes up special attackrs. You also cover Klefki's two weaknesses pretty well, and it likes rain and sand, while sun makes it tough on water types, and fire would be bad even in no weather. Also is a little better vs Thund, cuz that has the potential to roll right through your team. Also no such thing as a Prine berry.

I never pick Talonflame and Charizard together, so I can be predictable that is true. I tought about a Prankster user like Klefki, but I never tought about priority Swagger, maybe he can replace my Talonflame, and Swagger M-Venuzaur and Skarmory to force a switch.

I don't like Rest on Toed, I think you should use Focus Blast. That helps deal with Kang and stuff. Also it makes more sense to run 100 Def and 156 SpD evs to not waste any.

It is true I rarely used Rest with Politoed, maybe another attack move like Focus Blast can be good.

I'm really not sure about Greninja here. It doesn't really benefit from any weather here, except maybe sand to chip foes, tho that helps put it in range of more priority attacks too. It generally beats Thund, but a T-Wave is basically a kill on Gren, so it's really the same as if yer trading one for one. Something better wiyh Thund would be good, maybe also something that likes Sand. I was thinking Excadrill but idk. It hates rain and sun, so you really have to bring it with Hippo, so restricts yer options.

One of my first idea was a AV Excadrill, I guess I will never switch Charizard Y into AV Excadrill because Charizard Y can handle some special attacks so if I switch in to AV Excadrill it will come from Sand or Rain, what do you think about AV Excadrill ?
Maybe a set like this :

Excadrill @assault vest
Ability : Mold Breaker
Adamant nature
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SpD
- Earthquake
- Ironhead
- Rock tomb or Rock slide
- Rapid spin or Horn drill

 

[Omastar68]

Well...AV Exca might be ok, but I think it should have Sand Rush. If it hates sun and rain and doesn't get much out of sand...honestly i'm not seeing much point. It does 4x resist rock and isn't weak to grass, but idk if that's much reason fer it. Scarf might werk well.

Move wise you never want Rapid Spin on anything. It does pathetic damage while entry hazards aren't too common in BSS. Rock Tomb makes sense with a slowr AV set, but certainly not on Scarf if u go with that, Horn Drill is fine eithr way, Exca has few good offensive options. I think Scarf Sand Force might be ok, but you do lose a bit of utility vs stuff like Rotom forms.

Synergy wise Exca looks ok to me. Makes you a little werse against Azu-something Gren would break most of the time-and isn't as helpful against Kang.

 

[Arkahn]

In my opinion the problem with Sand rush or Sand force is, I must use this Exca with Hippowdon and Charizard, because it need Sand and if I choose Swampert, I must pick Toed too !
But a AV Exca can be pick outside Sand.

Finaly double core in my team might be a bad idea, because I have just few possibilities to pick. Maybe it can be better to drop Charizard Y and add some great partners to my main core (Swampert + Toed). What do you think ?

With the idea to add a Prankster, I tought about Serperior, he can handle water pokémon easily no ? A set with Glare and Lum Berry, to speed control, I think.

 

[Omastar68]

are you thinking Swampert/ Toed/ Klefki/ Serp/ Hippo/ Exca?

Exca w/e yer going fer shood be Adamant imo, that part is right. Item stats say fer Singles scarf is most common, with Sash just a teeny bit below that. Then you got AV, so that certainly is a good option. I'd say scarf tho cuz it can revenge stuff. In particular i'm thinking Volcarona, tho you won't outspeed +1 anyways so rip.

Abillity most common is actually Mold Breaker, so I guess that's reasonabl. Kinda wondering how much Hippo really does fer you at this point, tho I guess with the proposed team you do have three sand immunes so that chip damage is nice.

Serp deals well ith waters, but you may have to watch out for Ice Beams and stuff if you can't ohko. Synthesis is ruined by sand and rain, and I'm sure you'll usually have at least one. So maybe use an offensive sash Serperior.

Now that you don't have sun but have a bit of a rain thing going on yer bothered by Ferro. HP Fire is a common enough move on Serp, and boosted won't even care about rain, so mayb that.

 

[Arkahn]

So your suggestion is, I keep my core Swampert + Toed and Hippowdon for physical sweepers, I add AV Exca for spec attacks, Klefki for the control and he is a good mate in my team and the last slot maybe for Serp as an offensive sash, what about Breloom instead of Serp, he can handle Ferro by the way.
If I keep Serp, I hesitate between Focus sash and Lum Berry (against Prankster)


I'm not sure about the EVs for an AV Exca, what is your suggestion ?

 

[Omastar68]

Well, keeping the rain core is fine if u want. You have to start somewhere-w/e you wanna build around.

Swampert I agree on the moves, but Adamant in rain reaches 244 Spe in rain. Just shy of a few important things, but well over the next big benchmark, high Spe Scarf Chomp. You just need 232 Spe for that, so i'd cut back on Spe evs a bit. 116 Spe is enough, rest can go in HP.

Politoed PGL says it's usually Bold in Singles. You don't have to change to do good, but worth keeping in mind. Set is fine once you drop Rest.

So with those two you have a problem with all grasses, especially mega Venu who doesn't take much from Swampert eithr. Prolly was wrong to dismiss Talon wholesale, it deals good with grasses and WoW for Ferro(since rain makes Flare Blitz pretty meh.) idk about physically defensive, but I think keep Talon.

Hippo makes you stronger against Kang and Chomp, so that's good. Thund you kinda have to watch out. It's not so bad really. Won't ohko Toed and Ice Beam does nice damage. Swampert only really fears Grass Knot, but i'm pretty sure the ones that run that are bulkier and won't be ohkod, tho it's only a 31.3% chance for 0/0 Thund to be
ohkoid from full. Talon is pretty cleanly destroyed, only really being able to pick off a very weakened Thund. Hippo is 2hkod by offensive HP Ice, takes a lot from GK too, and is completely shut down by Taunt. AV Excadrill is very safe against all but Focus Blast, so that's good.

EVs I think max atk is a given. Then you got Spe. Not really sure what to aim for there. Maybe 252 neutral base 80s. base 70s don't matter so much. Breloom will go for Mach Punch, Cloyster often runs less Spe(ferst set in the BSS calc shows a stat of 108) and also isn't that common, and Bisharp isn't much of a problem-also often gonna go fer Sucker anyways I bet. So maybe just 4 Spe fer that Closter and to creep 4 Spe Rotoms. Then the remainder can go to SpD. 4/4/244 is fine too since SpD is even-one more point isn't gonna do anything extra after the AV boost. You can refine the spread mpore than that later, but don't get hung up on it yet.

Other common stuff...lesse. Talon i'd say yer very strong against. Heatran should b a piece of cake, Cresselia...eh. You ruin her recovery with rain or sand, so she's not too big of a deal. Still, she's trouble. Serperior kinda werks well, except she can cripple it with T-Wave. Mayb run Taunt, but Ice Beam does a fair amount so it might not help.

Aegi u're good with. Taunt ruins KS, you have two strong EQs to avoid the atk drops, and Politoed can mess it up with Encore while also hitting it hard and mayb burning. Hippo hits in blade form too, so no issues there. Blaziken you do great, Mence looks fine, and Serp can handle those icky bulky waters most times. Mamo is beaten by the rain core and gets a burn from Talon, but Sash can kill Serp and Exca loses anyways unless you wanna run more Spe, and there are still plenty of Mamo that are sash, Scarf, or Jolly. Hippo doesn't do very good, tho that depends on how many times Icicle Spear hits and stuff.

Anyways, looks good. Sash Serp fits better than the Solid Snake set, and not just cuz yer Helmet is taken. Moves Leaf Storm/ HP Fire/ Glare/ Dragon Pulse...isn't a lot to choose from lol. AV Exca seems fine. Talon I still have some reservations about physically defensive, but mayb. Yer missing 4 EVs, so throw those in SpD(128 SpD gives the same stat as 124 assuming an odd iv.)

 

[Arkahn]

Swampert I agree on the moves, but Adamant in rain reaches 244 Spe in rain. Just shy of a few important things, but well over the next big benchmark, high Spe Scarf Chomp. You just need 232 Spe for that, so i'd cut back on Spe evs a bit. 116 Spe is enough, rest can go in HP.

Are you sure about 116 EVs Spe to reach 232 Spe under rain, because with 116 EVs Spe, the simulator indicate 105 Spe, so 210 under rain, or I made something wrong.

Politoed PGL says it's usually Bold in Singles. You don't have to change to do good, but worth keeping in mind. Set is fine once you drop Rest.

I already changed that, thank you ;)

So with those two you have a problem with all grasses, especially mega Venu who doesn't take much from Swampert eithr. Prolly was wrong to dismiss Talon wholesale, it deals good with grasses and WoW for Ferro(since rain makes Flare Blitz pretty meh.) idk about physically defensive, but I think keep Talon.

At the begining, I picked Talonflame for M-Venu, put the EVs Att to 2HKO him, without Talonflame, M-Venu can give me some big troubles !

EVs I think max atk is a given. Then you got Spe. Not really sure what to aim for there. Maybe 252 neutral base 80s. base 70s don't matter so much. Breloom will go for Mach Punch, Cloyster often runs less Spe(ferst set in the BSS calc shows a stat of 108) and also isn't that common, and Bisharp isn't much of a problem-also often gonna go fer Sucker anyways I bet. So maybe just 4 Spe fer that Closter and to creep 4 Spe Rotoms. Then the remainder can go to SpD. 4/4/244 is fine too since SpD is even-one more point isn't gonna do anything extra after the AV boost. You can refine the spread mpore than that later, but don't get hung up on it yet.

So a spread EVs like : 252 Att / 244 SpD / 4 HP / 4 Spe, is good ?

Other common stuff...lesse. Talon i'd say yer very strong against. Heatran should b a piece of cake, Cresselia...eh. You ruin her recovery with rain or sand, so she's not too big of a deal. Still, she's trouble. Serperior kinda werks well, except she can cripple it with T-Wave. Mayb run Taunt, but Ice Beam does a fair amount so it might not help.

So, for Serp,

Serperior @ Focus sash
Ability : Contrary
Timid nature
EVs : 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- HP Fire
- Dragon pulse

Is ok ?

 

[NOVED]

The main problem i see with this team when i think about it is that a lot of the team doesn't really play well with each other. You have some good cores in here but they work seperately from your other cores. For example, Hippo just doesn't seem to ever make sense with Poli and Pert. And talon probably never gets paired with Zard. So it kinda feels like the team is trying to do two different things. You have the rain core and then the HippoZard core. Which both of those are good but i think its better to have a team thats able to be more flexible with the 3 pokemon you are picking.

I don't think Hippo is a good call here with the rain core. Rain struggles with bulky water and grass types like you said and Hippo doesn't help with this. Hippo only synergizes well with a mega that helps with this. So rather than synergizing with a backup mega, I think you could use something that fills a similar role and synergizes with the rest of your team, and the main mega that you want to build around. Something like ferro works as a great physical wall that can set up rocks for you like Hippo, and beats pretty much the same things as Hippo as well. It also really benefits from the rain and deals with Grass types and bulky Water types nicely.

As for Charizard, I think you have the right idea when you're picking your backup mega. You want something that deals with things Pert struggles with. But i think Charizard isn't the right call with rain. I think there's other things that work with the Rain core and help Pert's weaknesses. You also have normal teammates that help out with Pert's weaknesses too. So your mega doesn't need to be an absolute counter to Swampert's enemies cause your teammates will help out with them as well. I think when you picked Charizard you were just looking for an absolute counter to Grass/water types. But i think other Megas can be used to patch up Pert's bad matchups. Mawile for example is better at dealing with Grass types and synergizes with Rain. Mega Gengar is another good mon against grass types, the typing is great vs most grass types and Wisp+Hex is very strong vs Ferrothorn. It can also run Protect, while Politoed runs Perish Song for some extra synergy. Kangaskhan with Fire Punch can be an interesting tech choice as well, just cause Kang is just so good in general.

I think Talonflame is a great call to deal with Grass types. I think you want another teammate that deals well with Bulky water types though. I already suggested Ferro which is a good one, but I think one more would be ideal. You have Greninja which can be pretty good with Grass Knot. I also think Thundurus would be a good call. Thund is a great mon in general, good at dealing with Water types and also gives you a good Flying resist which the team lacked before.

Here's an import of what I think would be the best changes to give you a decent overview, some of the EVs can probably be changed around to your liking. And of course you can change some of the mons/sets if you disagree.

team

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 228 HP / 248 Def / 4 SpA / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect / Destiny Bond

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Stealth Rock

Talonflame @ Lum berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 128 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Protect
- Ice Punch

Politoed @ Eject Button
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 102 Def / 150 SpD
Calm / Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Encore
- Perish Song

Hope I could help out a bit man. :) Good luck on the ladder.

Also, I know you don't like simulators, which is fine. But if you ever feel like chatting about Battle Spot you can check out the Battle Spot room on Pokemon Showdown. There's a lot of friendly people there who are often willing to help as well.

 

[Omastar68]

Are you sure about 116 EVs Spe to reach 232 Spe under rain, because with 116 EVs Spe, the simulator indicate 105 Spe, so 210 under rain, or I made something wrong.


I already changed that, thank you ;)


At the begining, I picked Talonflame for M-Venu, put the EVs Att to 2HKO him, without Talonflame, M-Venu can give me some big troubles !



So a spread EVs like : 252 Att / 244 SpD / 4 HP / 4 Spe, is good ?



So, for Serp,

Serperior @ Focus sash
Ability : Contrary
Timid nature
EVs : 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Leaf Storm
- Glare
- HP Fire
- Dragon pulse

Is ok ?

I meant get to a Spe stat of 116 mega, not 116 evs lol. That's confusing xd.

AV Exca if you're still fixing to use that, you also have 4 evs leftover. Those can just go in Def too do something.

Serp that looks right. Prolly 4 HP or Def instead mainly for Breloom and w/e...but that's it. Not really any other good choices on Serp. You have Taunt so meh, and LS is awkward with sash.

That said...mayb just go with what NOVED said lol. That looks great, Ferro in particular synergizes great and I shood've suggested that. Perish Song on Toed is nice, actually its most used move.

 

[Arkahn]

I don't think Hippo is a good call here with the rain core. Rain struggles with bulky water and grass types like you said and Hippo doesn't help with this. Hippo only synergizes well with a mega that helps with this. So rather than synergizing with a backup mega, I think you could use something that fills a similar role and synergizes with the rest of your team, and the main mega that you want to build around. Something like ferro works as a great physical wall that can set up rocks for you like Hippo, and beats pretty much the same things as Hippo as well. It also really benefits from the rain and deals with Grass types and bulky Water types nicely.

My first idea was Ferro, because it synergize well with a rain team, but I was afraid about Boost punch M-Kang's and High jump kick M-Blaziken's, these pokémon, especially Kang, are played a lot and can give some trouble to Ferro no ?
For his move-set, I thought Gyro ball/Thunder wave/Leech seed/Protect or Power whip, not Steal rock, like Hippo, because I dont used it a lot finaly in BSS.

As for Charizard, I think you have the right idea when you're picking your backup mega. You want something that deals with things Pert struggles with. But i think Charizard isn't the right call with rain. I think there's other things that work with the Rain core and help Pert's weaknesses. You also have normal teammates that help out with Pert's weaknesses too. So your mega doesn't need to be an absolute counter to Swampert's enemies cause your teammates will help out with them as well. I think when you picked Charizard you were just looking for an absolute counter to Grass/water types. But i think other Megas can be used to patch up Pert's bad matchups. Mawile for example is better at dealing with Grass types and synergizes with Rain. Mega Gengar is another good mon against grass types, the typing is great vs most grass types and Wisp+Hex is very strong vs Ferrothorn. It can also run Protect, while Politoed runs Perish Song for some extra synergy. Kangaskhan with Fire Punch can be an interesting tech choice as well, just cause Kang is just so good in general.

Why I picked Zard, it is exactly for that and finaly a double core in my team was a bit too much predictable and not really my style, because I want to use my main core the most of the time !
M-Gengar can be a good partner with Perish song Toed's, you right, I am not a big fan of Gengar but it can be a good and funny trick !
I dont really see how to use Perish song from Toed with Panic button with M-Gengar, can you give me an exemple ? :)
As a second mega, what you think about M-Scizor instead ?

I think Talonflame is a great call to deal with Grass types. I think you want another teammate that deals well with Bulky water types though. I already suggested Ferro which is a good one, but I think one more would be ideal. You have Greninja which can be pretty good with Grass Knot. I also think Thundurus would be a good call. Thund is a great mon in general, good at dealing with Water types and also gives you a good Flying resist which the team lacked before.

I dont really want to use Thund, for that role, I guess Focus sash Serp can do the same, handle most of bulky water and speed control with Glare, no ?

I meant get to a Spe stat of 116 mega, not 116 evs lol. That's confusing xd.

Oh sorry, my bad xD

 

[Omastar68]

Ferro is actually more or less considered a check to Kang, counters a lot of sets too. PuP doesn't matter too much cuz it takes so much from Iron Barbs. If you really hate it you can give it a helmet if Hippo is being removed. Blaziken is bad tho, and even Protect isn't always gonna save you. It might use HJK and crash, but then prolly ohkos the next turm with it. Or it might be Superpower, or susoect Protect cuz of Lefties and use a different move ir even set up. Don't worry about it tho cuz you have Talon and rain.

I imagine Scizor can werk as a second mea, but I don't much like it with Ferro. That makes fer a bit of a fire problem despite rain, and doesn't add the most coverage. Scizor beats a lot of the same things as Ferro like fairies, so it seems a little reduindant.

Thund is a pretty great mon in general, but if you want you can definitely run Serp instead. Sash especially doesn't have the same problem with water types that have boosted with cm like Suicune.

 

[Arkahn]

For my first try with your advices, I will try to swap Hippo for Ferro and add Serp and AV Exca instead of Zard and Greninja.
After that, I will see if it can be better to try Mega-Gengar.
The hard part now will be to breed a Serp with the good IVs for HP Fire :)

That is true with Scizor, he is nearly the same as Ferro, it was a bad idea.

Thank you a lot for your advices Omastar68 and Noved ! You helped me a lot !
I will update this post after few tries.

 

[NOVED]

My first idea was Ferro, because it synergize well with a rain team, but I was afraid about Boost punch M-Kang's and High jump kick M-Blaziken's, these pokémon, especially Kang, are played a lot and can give some trouble to Ferro no ?
For his move-set, I thought Gyro ball/Thunder wave/Leech seed/Protect or Power whip, not Steal rock, like Hippo, because I dont used it a lot finaly in BSS.


Why I picked Zard, it is exactly for that and finaly a double core in my team was a bit too much predictable and not really my style, because I want to use my main core the most of the time !
M-Gengar can be a good partner with Perish song Toed's, you right, I am not a big fan of Gengar but it can be a good and funny trick !
I dont really see how to use Perish song from Toed with Panic button with M-Gengar, can you give me an exemple ? :)
As a second mega, what you think about M-Scizor instead ?



I dont really want to use Thund, for that role, I guess Focus sash Serp can do the same, handle most of bulky water and speed control with Glare, no ?

Well for your fears on Ferrothorn, Omastar had my exact thoughts. Kang will take too much damage from Barbs/Helmet and your team handles Blaziken just fine with rain/talon.

With perish song, the main idea is you use toed to set up perish song then as it gets ejected/faints, you go to Mega Gengar(which should be Mega'd already ideally) so they can't switch out because of Shadow Tag. Gengar is also just good in general and really good at dealing with Grass types like Venu and Serperior. Mega Scizor could possibly be a decent pick but when i compare it to Mega Mawile I just feel like Mawile is a stronger pick.

As for Serp vs Thund, I really feel like Thund is stronger. Not only because it has more reliable speed control with Prankster, but more importantly it gives you a flying resist. This is important vs Mence especially. If Mence gets a DD up vs your current team its seriously bad news bears for you. Mence actually outspeeds Swampert in the rain as well, after just one Dragon Dance. Serperior will only make you much weaker to Mence.

 

[Arkahn]

As for Serp vs Thund, I really feel like Thund is stronger. Not only because it has more reliable speed control with Prankster, but more importantly it gives you a flying resist. This is important vs Mence especially. If Mence gets a DD up vs your current team its seriously bad news bears for you. Mence actually outspeeds Swampert in the rain as well, after just one Dragon Dance. Serperior will only make you much weaker to Mence.

Ferro with Thunder wave can't solved the problem in your opinion ? I assume a Prankster is better after one DD, but Sash Serp can paralyse too, because he can resist one turn thanks to the Sash and after Mence is paralysed, Mega-Swampert can OHKO him with Ice punch.

 

[NOVED]

Ferro with Thunder wave can't solved the problem in your opinion ? I assume a Prankster is better after one DD, but Sash Serp can paralyse too, because he can resist one turn thanks to the Sash and after Mence is paralysed, Mega-Swampert can OHKO him with Ice punch.

A lot of Salamence teams carry teammates with Stealth Rock to break Focus Sash. And ferro isn't always the most solid answer to Mence if it has been weakened prior in the match. Most mence teams have teammates that bait in Ferro as well so it puts a lot of pressure on Ferro and isnt always reliable in the late game.

 

[Arkahn]

I see... I forgot Stealth rock with Focus sash !
Maybe Ferro as enough time to paralyse Mence, after that it will be easy to KO him, but it is not very viable 100% of time... and Mence is played a lot !

And the problem for me is I am on Rubis omega, so I cant capture Thundurus :(

What about Klefki finaly ?

 

[a0161613]

I see... I forgot Stealth rock with Focus sash !
Maybe Ferro as enough time to paralyse Mence, after that it will be easy to KO him, but it is not very viable 100% of time... and Mence is played a lot !

And the problem for me is I am on Rubis omega, so I cant capture Thundurus :(

What about Klefki finaly ?

Not being able to catch something or breed something isnt an excuse :) You can get all you need from the Wifi section.

 

[Omastar68]

Ferro with Thunder wave can't solved the problem in your opinion ? I assume a Prankster is better after one DD, but Sash Serp can paralyse too, because he can resist one turn thanks to the Sash and after Mence is paralysed, Mega-Swampert can OHKO him with Ice punch.

Well, like NOVED says that's the ideal situation vs Mence, where the sash isn't broken. Also some Mence have Substitute, but they have to alredy have a Sub up wen Thund switches in to block t-wave.

On Ferro I fergot to mention you don't want Gyro Ball with t-Wave. It's a good move normally but much weaker if enemy is paralyzed. Protect is also good, but only use it with Leftovers. Helmet gets some benefit, but less. If yer ditching Hippo yer Helmet is free, great item if you don't wanna run Protect.

If not running Gyro Ball, use an Impish nature and 31 Spe IVs. A spread of 252 HP/ 196 Def/ 60 Spe to outspeed parad base 100s is good.

EDIT: The ev spread shood actually be 236 HP/ 212 Def/ 60 Spe. Stole it from cant say in another RMT, dint notice.

 

[Arkahn]

That is true, I will try the wifi section ;)

In your opinion, what move set can be the best for my team ? The relax one with gyroball or the impish one with t-wave ?
And I will use helmet, especially for Kang !

 

[Omastar68]

I think with Helmet you want min Spe max HP and Def, so Gyro Ball. T-Wave especially with Iron Head can also buy free turns, but you can't get as much out of those without Lefties. Power Whip is good. For the last slot maybe use Knock Off or Toxic if you don't want Stealth Rox. Could also try Explosion...but not much else. Certainly some interesting moves, but I think u shood stay away from them tbh. Acid Spray does very little, and possibly forcing switches won't help much. SD is viable-ish. Nothing else really deserves a mention. Maybe Gravity, but not with yer team.

 

[Arkahn]

A gyroball set can handle bulky water pokemon, such as Suicune, Gyarados or Slowbro ? Or I will need lefties + protect for that ?
Or maybe gyroball / toxic / leech seed / protect with lefties, but what about Kang without helmet ?

 

[Omastar68]

Well, Kang is troubled even just by Iron Barbs, Helmet just makes it even werse for her.

Bulky waters you don't really beat anyways. Suicune can burn with Scald, and has Rest often. Slowbro there's Fire Blast, and also megas which can comfortably set cm on you with no fear of crits, healing with Slack Off wen at low helth. Gyara hurts Ferro with Intimidate, and is neutral to grass non-mega. Might have its own helmet and/or Taunt to mess with Ferro, or it'll use DD.

Thund breaks bulky waters pretty well tho, and Ferro still isn't really bad with them. That might not be enough, mayb run CB Talon to just chip them more, and also a strong U-Turn to pivot? Physical bulk isn't really helping with most waters.

 

[Arkahn]

I think I will keep my Talonflame like this and I need a strong answer against bulky water or I will be in the same situation than before. So I will take Serp or Thund I guess.

Edit : Another idea instead of Thundurus or Serp, what about Whismicott ? Or finaly my first idea with Amoonguss ?
But both are weak against Mence, no ?