Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[ThatMangoLife]

I agree with the rise of Charizard Y to A+. It's the best mega right now IMO. Not only having few switchins, it also gives the user options such as the sun to mess with rain and sand teams. Yes it has a few things that counter such as toxapex and chansey, but less than most. Plus with the rise of dugtrio outside stall, and especially the rise of the dugtrio, charizard y offensive core (and sticking T-tar to that core works really well too) I think it's done enough to rise. Stealth rock weakness of course is still bad, but it is immune to spikes, sticky web etc., which give it merits over Volcarona (though i still rate Volcarona ahead due to superior setting up abilities and of course access to an item, particularly firium z. So yeah, Charizard Y to A+. What's more, given how abundant magearna is now, Charizard Y deals with it (Think the assault vest of max hp, max sp.def lives, but it can't OHKO back and you 2HKO). I think it's sets it apart from Mawille, which is often too slow, and doesn't help is easily by people switching in landorus on it, and Mega Pinsir which has more checks as worse overall coverage and provides less support to other team mates than charizard Y. Also both are beaten by variants of landorus and magearna, unlike Charizard Y which really loses only to choice scarf if it predicts it not to be scarfed.

Wholeheartedly agree with clefable rise, and quite a few A- drops, feel like those pokemon didn't really deserve A-, especially when clefable and chansey were in that tier. Hawlucha rise is also welcome, though situational, has power to sweep through teams with the sub, SD set and applies offensive pressure, harder to stay in/ and switch in defensive pokemon with little offense such as sableye, Chansey etc. or locking into earthquake as a result. Even if the set up fails, being 118 speed with powerful HJK and acrobatics if item is used is pretty useful. Think will rise further, probably to B- in the future.

 

[Empo]

from A to A+

my two cents on dugtrio.
i believe duggy should move to a+. this is, in my opinion, one of the most threatening and troublesome pokemon all around the sunmoon ou tier at the moment, which forces to run stuff like shed shell heatran and more, while losing the leftovers recovery chip. first off, its ability, which is arena trap, lets dugtrio trap literally a lot of stuff that can be potential win conditions in a game, such as tyranitar, tapu koko, tapu lele, heatran, chansey, toxapex, excadrill, dugtrio itself, magnezone, and so on. this can really be a pain in the ass when you face it off, because the main goal that dugtrio can achieve is to wear down the most troublesome threats for the team to just help the other teammates win. its attack increase (80-->100) is also not bad for dugtrio, which trap even a larger quantity of mons in the tier and get rid of a potential sweeper. furthermore, when you face off a dugtrio, you're really not sure about what set it can be. maybe it could be z groundium, or focus sash, or scarf; this doesn't really ease the problem here, especially when you have something that is able to outpace dugtrio but eject button + scarf dug can just get rid of something like tapu koko, for example.

 

[Reviloja753]

A ---> A- / B+
This thing is by no means bad, but the rise of Kyurem-Black (who has more flexibility), ZardY (who walls non-Thunder Punch sets and also is more splashable than Mega Mawile), and Mega Venusaur (who walls non-Iron Head sets) hurt Mega Mawile to the point where I don't think it deserves to be on the same level as Tapu Lele, Toxapex, and Dugtrio. Also, I can see it possibly dropping down to B+ as I don't see it being as good as Chansey is in the metagame, but I'd be fine with it just dropping to A-.

A ---> A- / B+
The same thing as MegaMaw, but replace the rise of Mega Venusaur with the declining popularity of Sticky Webs, which leads me to my next point....

B ---> B-
Sticky Webs isn't nearly as good as it was a few months ago. With Mew being everywhere now, it can be really hard to keep webs on the field. Also, Spore isn't even that great on Smeargle (though a good move to run on it), as it is too slow to prevent Mew from using Defog aside from on the switch-in, and it isn't like it can do much else outside of Sticky Webs. I'm not exactly sure how else to put it aside from the rise of Mew, to be honest. It is just hard to keep Webs on the field.

I hope I didn't get anything twisted. Please give me feedback!

 

[Toshiro46]

Is Zard Y somehow not bopped by regular Gren as opposed to scarf?

from A to A+

my two cents on dugtrio.
i believe duggy should move to a+. this is, in my opinion, one of the most threatening and troublesome pokemon all around the sunmoon ou tier at the moment, which forces to run stuff like shed shell heatran and more, while losing the leftovers recovery chip. first off, its ability, which is arena trap, lets dugtrio trap literally a lot of stuff that can be potential win conditions in a game, such as tyranitar, tapu koko, tapu lele, heatran, chansey, toxapex, excadrill, dugtrio itself, magnezone, and so on. this can really be a pain in the ass when you face it off, because the main goal that dugtrio can achieve is to wear down the most troublesome threats for the team to just help the other teammates win. its attack increase (80-->100) is also not bad for dugtrio, which trap even a larger quantity of mons in the tier and get rid of a potential sweeper. furthermore, when you face off a dugtrio, you're really not sure about what set it can be. maybe it could be z groundium, or focus sash, or scarf; this doesn't really ease the problem here, especially when you have something that is able to outpace dugtrio but eject button + scarf dug can just get rid of something like tapu koko, for example.

This is literally just a recap of what dugtrio does. You want to talk about moving dug up, you have to talk about how CharY + Dug is one of the most powerful offensive cores in the meta rn. Saying that it's attack increase from 80->100 is good for it won't cut it.

CharY also does not wall Mawile lol, it can't even reliably switch in because Play rough into sucker punch KOs it. Hell, almost any of its coverage moves into sucker punch KOs. At best, it's an offensive check. And even that's shaky because it has to be healthy to not die to a sucker.

And Pinsir should not drop it's incredible.

 

[Empo]

Is Zard Y somehow not bopped by regular Gren as opposed to scarf?


This is literally just a recap of what dugtrio does. You want to talk about moving dug up, you have to talk about how CharY + Dug is one of the most powerful offensive cores in the meta rn. Saying that it's attack increase from 80->100 is good for it won't cut it.

CharY also does not wall Mawile lol, it can't even reliably switch in because Play rough into sucker punch KOs it. Hell, almost any of its coverage moves into sucker punch KOs. At best, it's an offensive check. And even that's shaky because it has to be healthy to not die to a sucker.

And Pinsir should not drop it's incredible.

what do you mean? i said that the goal that dugtrio can achieve is wearing down most of threats for the team to just help the other teammates win. you're right about charizard y, but that's just an example, and i didn't just talk about the atk raise from oras.

 

[ThatMangoLife]

A ---> A- / B+
This thing is by no means bad, but the rise of Kyurem-Black (who has more flexibility), ZardY (who walls non-Thunder Punch sets and also is more splashable than Mega Mawile), and Mega Venusaur (who walls non-Iron Head sets) hurt Mega Mawile to the point where I don't think it deserves to be on the same level as Tapu Lele, Toxapex, and Dugtrio. Also, I can see it possibly dropping down to B+ as I don't see it being as good as Chansey is in the metagame, but I'd be fine with it just dropping to A-.

A ---> A- / B+
The same thing as MegaMaw, but replace the rise of Mega Venusaur with the declining popularity of Sticky Webs, which leads me to my next point....

B ---> B-
Sticky Webs isn't nearly as good as it was a few months ago. With Mew being everywhere now, it can be really hard to keep webs on the field. Also, Spore isn't even that great on Smeargle (though a good move to run on it), as it is too slow to prevent Mew from using Defog aside from on the switch-in, and it isn't like it can do much else outside of Sticky Webs. I'm not exactly sure how else to put it aside from the rise of Mew, to be honest. It is just hard to keep Webs on the field.

I hope I didn't get anything twisted. Please give me feedback!

Mawile's got worse but not sure it should move down from A still, B+ is too low if it did. On the fence here, certainly it isn't as good as tapu lele or toxapex etc. you're right, but it's better than Mega T-Tar and Medicham IMO, and still the physically based mega choice to go for, except Mega Pinsir. I think I'd lean to yes, put it down to A-

Mega Pinsir I disagree with this one, still extremely strong, one of the strongest priorities in the game, and offers something more unique, there isn't much competition from physical fighting stab and great priority. Not much really resists that flying attacks and close combat. Think it's worse than charizard Y was still up there. Keep A

Agree with smeargle drop, teams are far more prepared for smeargle, and fewer teams are running sticky web anymore. Everyone knows it's set, and gets completely walled by Mega Sableye and most teams carry a grass type to switch in to spore with tangrowth, tapu bulu and ferrothorn high in usage. I prefer shuckle to smeargle honestly, at least that functions as a bit of a wall and can live enough to toxic things/trap via infestation. Smeargle really feels like dead weight a lot of the time. Drop to B-

 

[ThatMangoLife]

I like to make another nomination, rise of Mega Sableye

from A- ----> A

Specially defensive set I think is best atm, and no one wants to switch in a physical attacker on it for fear of will-o-wisp.

Is able to live pretty much all special attacks unboosted except fleur cannon on magearna, choice specs Tapu Lele and Hyper Voice Gardevoir .

Just an extremely splashable mon with via physically and specially defensive sets, with great recovery and status moves in Toxic and Will-o-wisp. Also makes Sticky webs particularly hard to use, and does rather well against stall, not allowing the opponent to place hazards up so easily. Good switch in for knock off or incoming status. Is finding use outside stall rather than just being a staple of it. Not to mention one of the best knock off users (and foul play) in the game. The fact that it's rather unique, and that Mega Pokemon are dropping in viability as of late (most of the pokemon considered the best in OU aren't mega), gives a reason to utilise a Mega Pokemon on a team.

Struggles against Mega Mawille admittedly, but I find that going down in usage. Mega Lopunny and Gardevoir do great against it, but again those two megas a less viable/popular in the meta right now.

 

[Night Train Lane]

Can we get an explaination for the Necrozma rise lmao. Why would I ever decide to put this mon on my team unless I'm specifically building for it / memeing. Mew and Mage make this mon completely irrelevant unless I'm missing something. Doesn't the whole / majority of the ranking team have to agree for a rise and drop. So one one of you goons have to say something, cause this is completely out of nowhere.

Brain storming makes me think like set up + dugtrio which is exactly what CM Mage + Dugtrio is except it can't be toxiced and has much more flexibility.

 

[p2]

ill shed some light on the whole necrozma controversy (seriously, why the fuck is this so controversial? this mon should have never been unranked in the first place)

Necrozma is bulky as shit and it sort of functions similarly to Hawlucha in that it abuses seeds in order to setup more easily, not to mention it's fantastic for stacking boosts alongside cm+polish for stored power. Bc of stored power, Necro can 1v1 a lot of cm users and take on a lot of more passive stuff rising (think cm mag, clef, reuni, mew). It's seriously bulky at +1 from seeds and lets it live ridiculous shit like z-wood hammer from bulu, taking ~60-70% and just breaks it with sp after.

very concise version: its bulky as hell, abuses recent meta trends, abuses terrain seeds to do dumb shit like take 40% from mmaws pr, and it can be a total bitch to beat because it boosts very quickly and its sp is v powerful. but it does require a lot of support in terrain control and way to somewhat reliably handle dark types.

hope this is enough to clear up concern regarding necro

 

[Night Train Lane]

It's controversial cause I've, and it seems some other people, literally never seen it in use during post ban of baton pass. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to ask for an explanation.

Your explanation seems fine I guess and I'm definitely not in a position to argue for or against it, so cool.

 

[Subject 18]

Hi, we've recently added both John and blunder to the VR Council team. Both are well known and shouldn't need much introduction.

Welcome to both.

 

[mushamu]

I like to make another nomination, rise of Mega Sableye

from A- ----> A

Specially defensive set I think is best atm, and no one wants to switch in a physical attacker on it for fear of will-o-wisp.

Is able to live pretty much all special attacks unboosted except fleur cannon on magearna, choice specs Tapu Lele and Hyper Voice Gardevoir .

Just an extremely splashable mon with via physically and specially defensive sets, with great recovery and status moves in Toxic and Will-o-wisp. Also makes Sticky webs particularly hard to use, and does rather well against stall, not allowing the opponent to place hazards up so easily. Good switch in for knock off or incoming status. Is finding use outside stall rather than just being a staple of it. Not to mention one of the best knock off users (and foul play) in the game. The fact that it's rather unique, and that Mega Pokemon are dropping in viability as of late (most of the pokemon considered the best in OU aren't mega), gives a reason to utilise a Mega Pokemon on a team.

Struggles against Mega Mawille admittedly, but I find that going down in usage. Mega Lopunny and Gardevoir do great against it, but again those two megas a less viable/popular in the meta right now.

I do agree with you that Mega Sableye can take many physical attacks and is very good at keeping utility. However, we must not forget the relevance of fairies on OU, and how sableye deals with them (it doesn't). Mega Sableye isn't splashable enough compared to the other mons in A, Toxapex, Tapu Lele, Mega Zard Y, and Mega Mawile, hence why it should stay A-.

 

[NG Spencer]

I wanted to add my thoughts on mawile and sableye.

Mawile shouldn't drop because it is still an amazing breaker that has ample opportunity to switch in on common mons such as nonflame clefable and scarf latios, two mons that have seen an increase in usage as of late, especially clef. Once in, mawile is a pain to switch into consistently unless youre running venusaur. With thunder punch, mawile breaks through celesteela + toxapex cores, while being immune to toxic spikes thanks to it's typing. Furthermore, with tapu bulu becoming a much bigger threat with it's sd sets, mawile has an amazing breaking partner that provides it recovery with grassy terrain and weakening earthquake while aiding mawile in breaking walls. Bulu is also a solid switchin to zygardre, a solid check to mawile who has seen a slight decrease in usage because of bulu. Also, zard y does not wall mawile, it takes a crapload from anything bar switching in on sucker punch and dies to a well timed thunder punch, or play rough after rocks.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 169-200 (56.9 - 67.3%)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 122-144 (41 - 48.4%)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 378-446 (127.2 - 150.1%)

I'm not entirely opposed to a sableye rise, but I think rising for being splashable isn't a reality. Sableye is almost exclusively found on stall builds, and is certainly not nearly as splashable as say clefable, who rightfully sits in a rank. If sableye were to rise, it should rise when the meta becomes more favorable for it. For example, if sd lando became really uncommon, then that would mean sableye has an easier time keeping rocks off the field and should this be considered for a rise as it is able to accomplish it's job even better than before. Or, if stall in general became more dominant, then as a result, sab should rise for it's role on stall teams. Again, not opposed to a sableye rise in general, but it shouldn't rise for being splashable.

 

[njnp]

 

[Sochlo]

Could I ask for more explanation on why Mega Gallade is B+?

I've noticed it's a bit harder to use than other mons in its rank. It can't really switch into anything because its defensive typing is bad and its low defence stat doesn't really allow it to switch into strong Rock moves even with its resistance, and it's extremely crippled by status so it's even risky to switch into passive mons and use its high spdef to get in on weak Scalds. Its high defences after Mega is kind of moot because its main STAB reduces both its defences, so it's still prone to revenge killing with its 110 base speed. Its matchup vs stall is horrible, it's basically dead weight. Against offence it gets very pressured, so it will likely resort to firing off unboosted attacks with its 110 base speed. Its best matchup by far is against balance, where it can actually get up a Swords Dance and destroy most defensive cores.

I'm mostly asking because I've not seen much of its presence on ladder and was wondering if I was missing any obvious synergies. I realise its niche is an SD sweeper that has no problems getting past Mew and Pex, but does that really make it as good as Fini or Kyub?

 

[DeltaRott]

Could I ask for more explanation on why Mega Gallade is B+?

I've noticed it's a bit harder to use than other mons in its rank. It can't really switch into anything because its defensive typing is bad and its low defence stat doesn't really allow it to switch into strong Rock moves even with its resistance, and it's extremely crippled by status so it's even risky to switch into passive mons and use its high spdef to get in on weak Scalds. Its high defences after Mega is kind of moot because its main STAB reduces both its defences, so it's still prone to revenge killing with its 110 base speed. Its matchup vs stall is horrible, it's basically dead weight. Against offence it gets very pressured, so it will likely resort to firing off unboosted attacks with its 110 base speed. Its best matchup by far is against balance, where it can actually get up a Swords Dance and destroy most defensive cores.

I'm mostly asking because I've not seen much of its presence on ladder and was wondering if I was missing any obvious synergies. I realise its niche is an SD sweeper that has no problems getting past Mew and Pex, but does that really make it as good as Fini or Kyub?

Seeing as how effective balance and bulky offense is nowadays(using the playstyles that Mew's basically a staple on, you could even make an argument for Pex now that it lays toxic spikes for Suicune), I would definitely say that Gallade earns its B+ status. Being able to break the effective backbones of balance with ease is to be commended, because it opens the door for so many other mons to come in and batter down a weakened team. If Mew's value to the meta decreases, then it's likely that you'll see Gallade's do so as well.

 

[robopoke]

Could I ask for more explanation on why Mega Gallade is B+?

I've noticed it's a bit harder to use than other mons in its rank. It can't really switch into anything because its defensive typing is bad and its low defence stat doesn't really allow it to switch into strong Rock moves even with its resistance, and it's extremely crippled by status so it's even risky to switch into passive mons and use its high spdef to get in on weak Scalds. Its high defences after Mega is kind of moot because its main STAB reduces both its defences, so it's still prone to revenge killing with its 110 base speed. Its matchup vs stall is horrible, it's basically dead weight. Against offence it gets very pressured, so it will likely resort to firing off unboosted attacks with its 110 base speed. Its best matchup by far is against balance, where it can actually get up a Swords Dance and destroy most defensive cores.

I'm mostly asking because I've not seen much of its presence on ladder and was wondering if I was missing any obvious synergies. I realise its niche is an SD sweeper that has no problems getting past Mew and Pex, but does that really make it as good as Fini or Kyub?

I agree that Mega Gallade cannot safely switch in but there are some teambuilding tricks such as using your own Fini to turn mons like Mew, Toxapex into setupbait thanks to Misty Terrain. It also can switch into predicted Knock Offs from Tangs (and get a Justified boost) to fire off strong attacks or SD up.

Other than that, you cannot really expect a wincon with SD to switch into attacks safely. The bulk can be used to switch into some stronger attacks if you have to, but it is more like a good trait to not get revengekilled by every attack.

 

[NG Spencer]

Could I ask for more explanation on why Mega Gallade is B+?

I've noticed it's a bit harder to use than other mons in its rank. It can't really switch into anything because its defensive typing is bad and its low defence stat doesn't really allow it to switch into strong Rock moves even with its resistance, and it's extremely crippled by status so it's even risky to switch into passive mons and use its high spdef to get in on weak Scalds. Its high defences after Mega is kind of moot because its main STAB reduces both its defences, so it's still prone to revenge killing with its 110 base speed. Its matchup vs stall is horrible, it's basically dead weight. Against offence it gets very pressured, so it will likely resort to firing off unboosted attacks with its 110 base speed. Its best matchup by far is against balance, where it can actually get up a Swords Dance and destroy most defensive cores.

I'm mostly asking because I've not seen much of its presence on ladder and was wondering if I was missing any obvious synergies. I realise its niche is an SD sweeper that has no problems getting past Mew and Pex, but does that really make it as good as Fini or Kyub?

Gallade is b+ for it's ability to crush bulky offense teams and balance teams that rely on a defensive core of either lando, tang, mew, magearna, toxapex, celesteela, heatran, ferrothorn, venusaur or Zapdos. Unfortunately for gallade, it has a bad case of 4mss, it should always run swords dance and close combat, but it really wants zen heatbut, knock off and ice punch.

As you said, gallade has trouble vs offense, but this gens mega speed mechanics helps it out. Gallades bulk allows it to survive a hit from threatening mons like protean gren, non evolved ash green (even if in ash form, gallade can stomach a dark pulse), manectric and scarf keldeo. It can switch into tang, as it eats giga drain and doesn't lose its item from knock.

Clefable is another its side, as it finds itself on many of the bo teams gallade tears through and can tank a +2 zen and severely damage it with moonblast (gallade eats one thanks to it's special bulk) or cripple it with thunder wave.

It isn't necessary dead weight vs offense, it can tank a hit and retaliate with a cc or whatever, but vs bo it really shines.

 

[Marrrrrrrrrr]

B- down to C/C-

Controversial nom but I think Mega Gardevoir should drop like a rock. I just see very little reason to use it over Tapu Lele. Pixelate Hyper Voice isn't really a benefit over it considering it's still walled all of the Steel types Tapu Lele struggles with. Neither is its higher Speed, the only thing that Mega Gardevoir outspeeds that Tapu Lele doesn't is Hydreigon, which obviously you're not going to see a lot of. They're essentially the same Pokemon except Mega Gardevoir wastes a Mega Slot, can't hold an item, and doesn't provide Psychic Terrain support. I was going to nominate it to unrank it entirely but it still has 2 niches, it provides Will-o-Wisp support and lack of Psychic Terrain can be an asset to your team if you really want a priority user. However, I don't think either of these niches are enough for a subrank as high as B-. In general, the B Rank is where the average Pokemon are settled, having a near equal amount of flaws and benefits, while the C Rank is where the mostly shitty Pokemon go, having only a few niches that make them worthwhile. Looking at these two descriptions, I think Mega Gardevoir certainly falls into the latter category.

And no, I don't think it's as good as most of the Pokemon in C+ either. Taking a look there, Mega Gardevoir is worse than almost all of them. Ninetales-Alola provides valuable support with Aurora Veil which an abundance of Pokemon appreciate, Primarina is very lacking in good switch-ins outside of shit like Chansey, Hawlucha is a valuable asset to rain for checking many Pokemon that rain struggles with, etc. IMO Mega Gardevoir is worse than everything in C+ bar Scolipede, Hippowdon, Breloom and Gliscor.

 

[Ylil]

B- down to C/C-

Controversial nom but I think Mega Gardevoir should drop like a rock. I just see very little reason to use it over Tapu Lele. Pixelate Hyper Voice isn't really a benefit over it considering it's still walled all of the Steel types Tapu Lele struggles with. Neither is its higher Speed, the only thing that Mega Gardevoir outspeeds that Tapu Lele doesn't is Hydreigon, which obviously you're not going to see a lot of. They're essentially the same Pokemon except Mega Gardevoir wastes a Mega Slot, can't hold an item, and doesn't provide Psychic Terrain support. I was going to nominate it to unrank it entirely but it still has 2 niches, it provides Will-o-Wisp support and lack of Psychic Terrain can be an asset to your team if you really want a priority user. However, I don't think either of these niches are enough for a subrank as high as B-. In general, the B Rank is where the average Pokemon are settled, having a near equal amount of flaws and benefits, while the C Rank is where the mostly shitty Pokemon go, having only a few niches that make them worthwhile. Looking at these two descriptions, I think Mega Gardevoir certainly falls into the latter category.

While I certainly agree that Gardevoir isn't the most defining mon in OU, it still shouldn't be dropped down with the likes Talonflame and Bronzong. It's a pretty terrifying wallbreaker that can destroy a lot of defensive mons in 1-2 hits. She certainly suffers from 4MSS as Steels are fucking cancer a bit diverse atm with Heatran, Celesteela and Magearna predominantly running the show and all requiring different coverage to effectively beat. She is however capable of "picking her poison" against these with her 3rd/4th move if you forgo Wisp. I've had considerably more success with her as of late by switching to Modest over Timid, as it allows her to pick up crucial 1/2HKOs against a large range of defensive and even offensive mons. With Modest she still hits 299 Speed and outspeeds everything I personally care about such as Adamant Lando-T, Adamant Zygarde, Timid Heatran, Timid Kingdra, 112 Timid Mew, Vincune, Naughty Kyurem-B etc etc.

I'm a fucking nerd

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 192-228 (63.1 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Hidden Power Ground vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 328-388 (87.2 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 232-274 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 280-330 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 222-262 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swampert-Mega: 476-560 (139.5 - 164.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 486-572 (166.4 - 195.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 308-366 (90 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 152-180 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Suicune: 224-264 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Suicune: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 205-243 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 486-572 (135.7 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 292-345 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 243-286 (86.4 - 101.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Ash: 614-726 (215.4 - 254.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 504-594 (156 - 183.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 564-666 (144.2 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 728-860 (184.7 - 218.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 434-512 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 270-318 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 256-302 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 348-412 (93 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 64 SpD Pelipper: 632-748 (195.6 - 231.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Note M-Gardevoir's special bulk is also formidable enough to go toe to toe with most Special Attackers and OHKO them back:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 235-277 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 207-244 (74.7 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 170-200 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 120-142 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega in Electric Terrain: 179-212 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 208-245 (75 - 88.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir-Mega: 111-132 (40 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

92+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir-Mega: 212-252 (76.5 - 90.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Basically, the set to go IMO is:

Gardevoir-Mega (M) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Energy Ball/Thunderbolt/Will-O-Wisp

Obviously she can be revenged by Funtrio and outside of packing Tbolt can't really do much to Celesteela but that's why she's isn't A tier lol. The point is alarmingly few things can comfortably switch in without being straight up murdered, and she straight up beats most Special Attackers. Personally I believe she's worthy of B/B- but probably not higher. I'll upload some replays later but I really want KFC rn so I'm gonna go do that.

 

[Riddikulusness]

Here are my thoughts on a couple of noms brought up before as well as a couple of noms of my own.

A ---> A+: Agree
Fuck this mon lol Dugtrio is such a valuable asset to so many teams. It traps and removes/weakens so many problematic Pokemon like Tran, Pex, Chansey, Magearna, Ttar, and more. Dugtrio is a staple on stall, as it can remove many of the things that can annoy stall like Mawile (can dodge sucker with sub or live a hit with sash), non-Shed Lele, Ttar, and Hoopa U, making them get a max of 1 kill vs stall. It provides crucial support for mons like Volc, Vincune, and especially Zard Y. Its scarf set can trap stuff it originally couldnt like Koko and +1 Volc. Overall, Dug provides too much support for so many teams for it not to be A+ imo.

A ---> A+: Unsure
As much as I adore this mon, I'm not sure if I'd put it at A+. Although I'm not a big fan of this arguement, It does need a good deal of support to function well, which can often make most Zard Y teams very linear. Although I think that Zard Y is the better of the three A rank megas (the other two being Maw and Pins), I'm not sure if I would put it a full subrank above those two since I do think they are very close in viability. Despite this, Zard Y is still an absolutely incredible wallbreaker. With the correct support, it is incredibly hard to stop. Many of its common checks are trapped by Duggy/Ttar. It takes advantage of a very common and viable Pokemon in Mew, as it gives it free switch ins (as long as it isnt volt) to fire of strong attacks. Overall, I'm not sure if I would put it a full subrank above the other two megas in A in Mawile and Pinsir (despite me believing Zard is the better of the three megas). Its effect on the current meta is undeniable though, so I could see it in A+ as well.

B- ---> B
Here is one of my own noms. Gastrodon is a neat Pokemon in the current meta. It has the ability to check most Magearna sets, Koko (which is rising in usage a bit with its z wild charge set), Zapdos, Gren (checks prot better than ash), and Mega Mane. Its seen solid usage in WCoP as well. It can spread status through Toxic/Scald burns which allows it to cripple and beat mons like Mega Ttar and Lopunny. It can status mons that may want to switch in as well, like Bulu with a potential scald burn, and Tang with Toxic. Here is a couple of replays showing of Gastros usefulness (both are in WCoP).
1: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-295289 (Poek vs. Gypsy King). The Gastro is always there to check the Gren and Magearna, as well as wearing things down with toxic. It eventually just wins the game in the end.

2: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-296823 (Toxzn vs. Vore Gidal). Not as good of a replay, but gastro gets a toxic off vs. Tang which helps Mega Ttar sweep.

Gastro also fits better with the likes of Mega Mane and Mega Venu in B rather than with the likes of Alolan Muk in B-. Overall, I think Gastro is due for a rise.

B ---> B+
Mantine is actually very good atm imo. It is one of the few Pokemon that can wall Zard Y and isnt trapped by Duggy, which is huge since Zard Y + Duggy is a very popular and effective team style atm. It also checks popular Pokemon like Volcarona, Keldeo, Ash Gren, and Heatran (though tran can toxic you). It has the perk of being a defogger that is immune to Tspikes and Spikes (though it makes up for that by being rocks weak). It also has seen solid WCoP usage. It is one of two Pokemon (chansey being the other) that can stop any Volc set cold with Haze. It can also utilize Toxic over haze to punish switch ins like Tang, Zapdos, and Kyurem-B. It can also act as a buffer vs. Vincune thanks to Water absorb and Haze. Lastly, it is a solid mon vs rain because of water absorb. While Mew is the better defogger in some cases, I believe Mantine should rise to B+ along the likes of Kyurem-B and Mega Sciz.

Thats all I got for now. Thanks for the read!

 

[Dreadfury]

A --> A+: STRONGLY Agree

Dugtrio is without question one of the most centralizing threats in the tier. There is nothing else in OU that can be compared, to any extent, to Dugtrio because there is nothing that fulfills its role of being the ultimate revenge killer. I could write an essay about the number of things Dugtrio has going for it, starting from the introduction of Z-moves and its Attack buff to the fact that it can eliminate an array of the tier's newest and hottest additions, but chances are it would be redundant at this point. It is borderline mandatory on every single Stall variant because its niche is that influential. It sees lots of use on more offensive and balanced teams as an extremely reliable means of eliminating threats like Tapu Koko, Magearna, Heatran, Toxapex, Tyranitar, and so, so much more.

Its versatility at such a specialized role further amplifies this: Groundium Z opens up many possibilities for revenge killing and wallbreaking, and that list of targets it can eliminate is increased further by Screech allowing it to nail stuff with a +2 hit. Choice Scarf allows it to revenge kill threats like Tapu Koko, Mega Manectric, and weakened scarfers that would otherwise threaten it by outspeeding and promptly OHKOing it, additionally packing enough firepower to OHKO Volcarona through its Charti Berry with only a minimal amount of prior damage. Focus Sash allows it to abuse Reversal more reliably while also giving it the potential for a second turn to either eliminate something or drop a Screech or Toxic on something bulky to threaten them thereafter.

Dugtrio's role is unique. Dugtrio's role is influential. Dugtrio's role is centralizing. And its ability to remain versatile even though it exists solely to fulfill that incredibly specific role of trapping and revenge killing is more than enough reason to put it amidst the likes of OU's most threatening special sweeper, OU's most threatening Dragon Dancer, and OU's best defogger.

 

[LordHelix]

Not to be a bubble burster on this dugtrio nom support to a+, but exactly changed for it to suddenly rise to A+??

I mean the two posts above me only basically stated stuff dugtrio already did from the start (having a myriad of sets, trapping and eliminating threats such as mag/chansey/pex and so on)
its not like the metagame suddenly is going in its favor or anything, thats basically stuff dugtrio did since the start of sun and moon

• When nominating a Pokemon, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse.

I disagree with a rise, nothing has basically changed for dugtrio for it to rise. Yea arena trap is extremely unique and maybe even uncompetitive, but is it enough to place it with meta defining threats such as gren, steela and zygarde that plough through teams with minimal support? imo no


On the other hand i support Charizard rising to A+, metagame trends have been kind to it as it can take advantage of the rise of fatter balance teams with easy switchins into mons like mew or tangrowth and basically come in and nuke everything in the tier with its extremely powerful fire blasts/solar beam bar a few mons such as chansey and mantine. Plus its synergy with dugtrio really pushes it over the edge Its easily one of the most powerful megas there is

I also agree with the rise of Mantine to B+ basically for the same reasons as what riddikulusness said

 

[Toshiro46]

As you said yourself, CharY is insane rn, and a huge part of the reason it's so effective is dugtrio. Their offensive core (along with probably Ttar in most cases) is basically one of if not the best right now, which is why both Dug and CharY should go up to A+. While Charizard is the star, it couldn't do as well as it is without dugtrio's trapping of almost every mon that bothers it defensively.

Coincidentally, that's also why Mantine should rise. It's one of CharY's only consistent switch-ins that isn't trapped by dugtrio, and it's also one of the most consistent stops to Volcarona, which is always great.

 

[ThatMangoLife]

I do agree with you that Mega Sableye can take many physical attacks and is very good at keeping utility. However, we must not forget the relevance of fairies on OU, and how sableye deals with them (it doesn't). Mega Sableye isn't splashable enough compared to the other mons in A, Toxapex, Tapu Lele, Mega Zard Y, and Mega Mawile, hence why it should stay A-.

Fairy Stab still isn't that common in Sun and Moon. Tapu Koko's thunderbolt does similar damage to dazzling gleam while holding magnet under electric terrain, doing just over half to the max Special defensive set. Dazzling gleam with life orb does 58.8-70%. Hence it's quite risky to switch it onto a Mega Sableye if he's carrying toxic (which I recommend), as he can recover stall you. Noticeably Mega Sableye is paired with chansey (even increasingly outside stall) which handles Koko pretty well. Tapu Lele is often specs or scarfed and of course if locked into psychic is useless against it and again handled by chansey. Mega Sableye can usually recover stall on fini too until misty terrain ends, as taunt is useless as it's bounced back, the defensive set doing 42.1%-50% to Mega Sableye. Magearna is a problem but handled by chansey pretty well. The pokemon where it has the worst match up, i.e. can't do anything+doesn't have a safe switch in with chansey/steel type for are Mega Lopunny, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Mawile. And only Mawile is seems up there in viability atm.

It think it is as splashable mon as pokemon in tier A as in my opinion like it was last gen, not hard to fit him on a team, pairs well often with a steel type to cover the only fairy weakness. With Hazards (and thus toxapex, spikes greninja, ferrothorn), status,Dugtrio, leech seed (particularly on ferrothorn and Celesteela) running rampant, provides arguably the best check. Also what I've found is having a mega sableye on the team reduces the need for a defogger, allowing greater freedom in teambuilding, with good defoggers scarce in OU (Tapu fini being the best IMO which has lost viability of late, and Latios always a risky one with pursuit trap and giving a free switch in to magearna which has risen in usage).

There are many reasons to run it over it's competition in rank A. Tangrowth assault vest, it's best set, takes special attacks only marginally better than specially defensive Mega Sableye but has more weaknesses, no access to recovery (though ofc regenerator offsets that a bit) or status when using assault vest. Toxapex weaknesses to commonly run stab in electric and ground, is trapped by dugtrio, though is a superior hazard setter. Ferrothorn really good at taking hits with incredible typing, but lacks reliable recovery (leech seed isn't too reliable). Sableye can function as a suitable alternative (or it can pair with well with all those pokemon, particularly toxapex and ferrothorn), I don't think it compares badly with pokemon that do a similar in the A tier.