Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

[burntBREAD]

Primarina is currently a pretty terrifying force in UU (and has a decent niche in OU), so I highly doubt it'll be anywhere around here or below.

 

[EonX]

There is no way I see Primarina being RU unless Tapu Fini somehow drops to UU and isn't banned (it could drop, but I don't see it staying in UU LOL) As for a couple of the others listed...

Crabominable: The problem for this is the typing. Without Trick Room, it's basically getting one kill and then getting revenge killed itself. We've seen quite a few Pokemon in RU with amazing offensive typings and the moves to back it up, but with low Speed (Rhyperior and Emboar are the main ones I"m thinking of) They've been perfectly manageable and I don't see why Crab won't be manageable either, especially considering its lackluster coverage on Fairies. I think it'll be fine here in RU and potentially drop to NU due to its heavy reliance on Trick Room and its multiple weaknesses (an Ice-type weak to Flying is kind of suboptimal imo) I approve of the Sonic joke though. Too bad Sakurai didn't xD

Guzzlord: I mean, yeah, Guzzlord has insane HP, but what else does it really have going for it? Its offensive stats aren't all that bad, but I don't see it doing much to Fairies, and it has to predict Steel-types most times. Speed is abysmal and defenses are paltry. It's basically Emboar with jacked up HP, lower power in its STABs, and a worse offensive typing in my view. We've managed Emboar through ORAS, so I don't see why we can't manage Guzzlord. I honestly see this thing dropping to NU / getting banned from NU. I don't see it being able to do much so long as RU has solid Fairy and Steel mons.

Lycanroc-Midday: I'm sorry, but I"m not going to waste my time with Stealth Rock on this thing when I have access to Sand Stream Gigalith. Sand Rush is amazing on this Pokemon and RU happens to have a fully evolved Sand summoner for the first time in its history (sorry baby Hippo) I'd much rather use it as a Sand sweeper (or sweeper in general with that Speed) than as a Stealth Rock setter. I think whether it ends up RU or not is dependent on if UU gets Hippowdon or not though.

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

Primarina is currently a pretty terrifying force in UU (and has a decent niche in OU), so I highly doubt it'll be anywhere around here or below.

There is no way I see Primarina being RU unless Tapu Fini somehow drops to UU and isn't banned (it could drop, but I don't see it staying in UU LOL)

OK then lads... what about Wishiwashi?

 

[aVocado]

OK then lads... what about Wishiwashi?

Doesn't seem like it'll do much when this tier is home to Alomomola and might have Chesnaught and Vaporeon.. not to mention venusaur and slowking. maybe choice band double-edge or return can put a dent in a couple of the mons I listed but not enough to make it as broken as u make it sound to be honestly, seems like it'll just be another shitty gimmick. It's physical movepool is limited to waterfall, double edge, return, and eq.

 

[ManOfMany]

There is no way I see Primarina being RU unless Tapu Fini somehow drops to UU and isn't banned (it could drop, but I don't see it staying in UU LOL) As for a couple of the others listed...

Crabominable: The problem for this is the typing. Without Trick Room, it's basically getting one kill and then getting revenge killed itself. We've seen quite a few Pokemon in RU with amazing offensive typings and the moves to back it up, but with low Speed (Rhyperior and Emboar are the main ones I"m thinking of) They've been perfectly manageable and I don't see why Crab won't be manageable either, especially considering its lackluster coverage on Fairies. I think it'll be fine here in RU and potentially drop to NU due to its heavy reliance on Trick Room and its multiple weaknesses (an Ice-type weak to Flying is kind of suboptimal imo) I approve of the Sonic joke though. Too bad Sakurai didn't xD

Guzzlord: I mean, yeah, Guzzlord has insane HP, but what else does it really have going for it? Its offensive stats aren't all that bad, but I don't see it doing much to Fairies, and it has to predict Steel-types most times. Speed is abysmal and defenses are paltry. It's basically Emboar with jacked up HP, lower power in its STABs, and a worse offensive typing in my view. We've managed Emboar through ORAS, so I don't see why we can't manage Guzzlord. I honestly see this thing dropping to NU / getting banned from NU. I don't see it being able to do much so long as RU has solid Fairy and Steel mons.

Lycanroc-Midday: I'm sorry, but I"m not going to waste my time with Stealth Rock on this thing when I have access to Sand Stream Gigalith. Sand Rush is amazing on this Pokemon and RU happens to have a fully evolved Sand summoner for the first time in its history (sorry baby Hippo) I'd much rather use it as a Sand sweeper (or sweeper in general with that Speed) than as a Stealth Rock setter. I think whether it ends up RU or not is dependent on if UU gets Hippowdon or not though.

For what it's worth, Guzzlord does have access to Heavy Slam paired with enormous weight if you want to hit fairies.

252+ Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 214-254 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Diancie: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That being said, I'm not sure how I would fit that into a set. From theory, I like Rest-Talk sets the best because they take advantage of Guzzlord's enormous bulk and numerous resistances (plus decent offensive presence). Crunch + Dragon Tail/Toxic + Rest + Sleep Talk with fully invested defenses seems pretty decent in theory, though it can't really touch fairies. Heavy Slam doesn't really work on the defensive set unfortunately since you need investment though. Choice Band could definitely be a thing, and so could Choice Specs, considering it does get Sludge Wave. However it lacks a real niche to use on teams- it's just fat and hits fairly hard. Offensive Leftovers + Toxic looks okay as well but suffers from neither hitting that hard or taking too many hits. I wouldn't mind AV either although it seems easily walled or worn down.

I don't think Guzzlord will drop to NU though. It definitely won't be great in RU but its combination of high bulk and good typing for taking special hits, as well as decent enough offenses make it just good enough for a tank role.

some more calcs for other potential sets

252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 192-226 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guzzlord Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 212-250 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 120 SpD Guzzlord: 220-259 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 416-492 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

For what it's worth, Guzzlord does have access to Heavy Slam paired with enormous weight if you want to hit fairies.

252+ Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Aromatisse: 214-254 (52.7 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Diancie: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That being said, I'm not sure how I would fit that into a set. From theory, I like Rest-Talk sets the best because they take advantage of Guzzlord's enormous bulk and numerous resistances (plus decent offensive presence). Crunch + Dragon Tail/Toxic + Rest + Sleep Talk with fully invested defenses seems pretty decent in theory, though it can't really touch fairies. Heavy Slam doesn't really work on the defensive set unfortunately since you need investment though. Choice Band could definitely be a thing, and so could Choice Specs, considering it does get Sludge Wave. However it lacks a real niche to use on teams- it's just fat and hits fairly hard. Offensive Leftovers + Toxic looks okay as well but suffers from neither hitting that hard or taking too many hits. I wouldn't mind AV either although it seems easily walled or worn down.

I don't think Guzzlord will drop to NU though. It definitely won't be great in RU but its combination of high bulk and good typing for taking special hits, as well as decent enough offenses make it just good enough for a tank role.

some more calcs for other potential sets

252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 192-226 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guzzlord Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 212-250 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 120 SpD Guzzlord: 220-259 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Guzzlord: 416-492 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah - Guzzlord has no place in NU. You put that tier and Guzz' 223 base HP in the same sentence and people will probably look at you like...

But in all seriousness - as well as Heavy Slam, what about Brave Nature Gyro Ball, maybe? Something like...

Guzzlord @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake

This, and trick room - think you could do something with it?

 

[ManOfMany]

Yeah - Guzzlord has no place in NU. You put that tier and Guzz' 223 base HP in the same sentence and people will probably look at you like...
View attachment 75072

But in all seriousness - as well as Heavy Slam, what about Brave Nature Gyro Ball, maybe? Something like...

Guzzlord @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake

This, and trick room - think you could do something with it?

It's a creative idea, but I did some calcs and it doesn't seem workable. Gyro Ball even with Brave Nature and 0 IVs, cannot OHKO Diancie and it does not 2HKOs Florges or Aromatisse.

I think Guzzlord would rather be on non-TR teams anyway because it is easily walled by stuff like Alomomola and bulkier stuff so you waste TR turns. Additionally outside of TR its speed tier allows it to outspeed Slowking and Escavelier so it would like to take advantage of that.

 

[aVocado]

Trick Room teams aren't that good anyway since the tier seems full of fat mons, and TR against fat mons isn't exactly the best!! also things like protect to stall out TR etc.

I tried making Guzzlord work honestly but there's not much you can do with him... if he had roar then he could've had a pretty decent resttalk set I guess but it would still not be good cuz if u were limited to using 1 of either stab then it'd either be extreme setup fodder for coba/viriz with crunch, or can't touch fairies with dragon claw or something..

its just bad all around :[ I guess an offensive set COULD have a niche at luring fairies tho, that looks decent. if things stay the way they are (unlikely), we'll get a lot of broken fairies... florges, gardevoir, and diancie are gonna be fucking nasty. the latter 2 especially.

garde and diancie are broken pls ban...

 

[TheHungrySnorlax]

There is no way I see Primarina being RU unless Tapu Fini somehow drops to UU and isn't banned (it could drop, but I don't see it staying in UU LOL) As for a couple of the others listed...

Crabominable: The problem for this is the typing. Without Trick Room, it's basically getting one kill and then getting revenge killed itself. We've seen quite a few Pokemon in RU with amazing offensive typings and the moves to back it up, but with low Speed (Rhyperior and Emboar are the main ones I"m thinking of) They've been perfectly manageable and I don't see why Crab won't be manageable either, especially considering its lackluster coverage on Fairies. I think it'll be fine here in RU and potentially drop to NU due to its heavy reliance on Trick Room and its multiple weaknesses (an Ice-type weak to Flying is kind of suboptimal imo) I approve of the Sonic joke though. Too bad Sakurai didn't xD

Guzzlord: I mean, yeah, Guzzlord has insane HP, but what else does it really have going for it? Its offensive stats aren't all that bad, but I don't see it doing much to Fairies, and it has to predict Steel-types most times. Speed is abysmal and defenses are paltry. It's basically Emboar with jacked up HP, lower power in its STABs, and a worse offensive typing in my view. We've managed Emboar through ORAS, so I don't see why we can't manage Guzzlord. I honestly see this thing dropping to NU / getting banned from NU. I don't see it being able to do much so long as RU has solid Fairy and Steel mons.

Lycanroc-Midday: I'm sorry, but I"m not going to waste my time with Stealth Rock on this thing when I have access to Sand Stream Gigalith. Sand Rush is amazing on this Pokemon and RU happens to have a fully evolved Sand summoner for the first time in its history (sorry baby Hippo) I'd much rather use it as a Sand sweeper (or sweeper in general with that Speed) than as a Stealth Rock setter. I think whether it ends up RU or not is dependent on if UU gets Hippowdon or not though.

Uhh I'm pretty sure every relevant fairy type gets two shot by an ice hammer by crabdominable. Slowking and qwlifish are probably the most solid counters, though the latter has to watch out for earthquake

 

[Miyami~~]

List of all terrain setters based on the RU wishlist:

Electric Terrain

Ampharos
Electivire
Heliolisk
Luxray
Magneton
Manectric
Raichu (Alola)
Raichu (Regular)
Smeargle
Togedemaru

Psychic Terrain

Beheeyem
Musharna
Oranguru
Smeargle

Grassy Terrain

Bellossom
Comfey
Exeggutor (Alola)
Exeggutor (Regular)
Florges
Jumpluff
Maractus
Meganium
Sceptile
Shiftry
Smeargle
Sunflora
Torterra
Venusaur
Vileplume

Misty Terrain

Aromatisse
Audino
Clefairy
Florges
Gallade
Gardevoir
Wigglytuff
Mawile
Meowstic (Male)
Smeargle

Musharna is actually really promising.

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Terrain
- Baton Pass
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock

Well this set looks a little strange, the idea is actually really good. Shoutouts to EviGaro for having the stroke of genius to BP the +1.

Z-Psychic Terrain gives you +1 in special attack while also setting up psychic terrain. Then, Baton Pass the +1 to Gardevoir or another strong special wallbreaker. Gardevoir actually 2HKOs Doublade after a +1:

+1 252 SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 183-216 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

At +1 with priority immunity, you can turn a whole bunch of things into a serious threat. Healing wish is here for healing something up if you need to (Though Z-Healing Wish does nothing different from the regular version) and Psyshock is a last-ditch attack move.

 

[Tazonite]

Toucannon, Extreme Evoboost, and Bibarel will become our tier memes.
I'm curious to see if A-Muk gets here.

 

[bmacbnasty]

I'm really thinking that we'll get this little monster back in RU again at least for the early part of the generation, mostly due to the massive power creep in UU crowding it out atm (I haven't seen one in ~65 games on the UU Alpha Ladder, which makes sense given Scizor has such a strong presence there), and the fact that the preliminary RU tierlist has Durant, Crobat, Pyukumuku, and Doublade on it as well as the usual soft checks. Poison and Steel types that used to struggle with Dugtrio have more breathing room VS. Slurpuff now given that Dugtrio has basically no chance of ever dropping back down here. I could see Alolan Persian being a great parter for Slurpuff, providing a switch in for Doublade that Slurpuff tends to bait/force in as well as set up opportunities thanks to (Z) Parting Shot. It is too bad Z-Belly Drum doesn't work with Unburden (bc the Z-Stone remains apparently) or else I could see that being a pretty solid option for Slurpuff to utilize.

 

[spookysocialist]

Ok I'm pretty sure I've used guzzlord more then anyone else so I can confirm he is really bad. That being said, I wouldn't say he is completely useless. Like Arikado said, he can work as a fairy lure. Thus, I present: The Only Good Guzzlord Set tm

Guzz the God (Guzzlord) @ Assault Vest/Leftovers/Fairy Resist Berry/Dragonium Z/Whatever
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Tail
- Heavy Slam
- Crunch/Fire Blast

The only set that guzz can use that umbreon doesn't do a million times better. It's very simple, switch guzzlord in on something it can beat, like...uh...I dunno, a gardevoir locked into psychic? A crobat that doesn't have roost? Well, once it's in, hope that your opponent is blinded by how ugly this shiny sprite is and sends in their diancie or florges or something, and heavy slam them on the switch. Now you have taken out their fairy, and have +1 attack to threaten your opponent with before you get close combatted. You could take enough EVs out of attack to give you +1 spat if you'd rather have a +1 draco meteor after a ko. Crunch can be used to give you false hope against necrozma or get you a defense drop so a better pokemon can finish the job, and fire blast lets you hit steel types, mainly cobalion.
Seriously, just use steelium z flygon or something.

In more serious news, let me drop a dope set for a dope mon:

Riley (Gardevoir) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp/Taunt

Gardevoir is amazing with choice scarf, but lacks the raw power to really sweep. But let me ask, what is a gardevoir counter that doesn't hate being burned? Only very bulky special walls like milotic. This set solves both those problems. Burn a muk or a doublade on the switch and you neuter it. Calm mind meanwhile lets you set up on things like milotic without haze or florges, and then you hit them with psyshock against their physical defense. You can also run taunt if you aren't scared of physical tanks. Then not even special walls with haze or roar will stop you, and you turn every bulky special attacker into setup bait.

 

[EonX]

Gardevoir is, without a doubt, one of the driving forces right now. A great offensive typing, respectable special bulk, great support options, high Special Attack, and passable Speed all make Gardevoir a bit unpredictable. It's generally easy to fit onto a team due to how little support (in relation to other Psychics and Fairies) it needs to function really well. All it really needs is something that can switch into and deal with Steel mons in terms of universal support. Each set it can run has its own purpose and will obviously benefit from various other forms of support. Here's just a few of its viable sets:

Scarfvoir

Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Healing Wish
- Hidden Power Fire / Trick

Scarf is easily one of Gardevoir's most reliable sets. With a high Special Attack and passable Speed, it's one of the strongest revenge killers the tier has. Moonblast and Psychic are obligatory STABs to revenge kill Darks, Fightings, and other various offensive mons. Healing Wish is a huge selling point and is what makes Gardevoir such an amazing Scarf user. Revenge kill all the mons you need to, but the opponent has saved a defensive answer? Just Healing Wish a teammate and win. The choice between HP Fire and Trick is how concerned you are with Durant. HP Fire ensures Durant is revenge killed, but Trick gives Gardevoir much more utility against fatter teams.

Stallbreakvoir

Gardevoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 72 Def / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Don't ask about the EVs. It's just enough to be a little more physically bulky while still hitting decently hard and outspeeding Jolly Ttrum. Aside from that, what Gardevoir switch in doesn't mind a Taunt or Will-O-Wisp? Yeah, none. I didn't think so. Basically any Gardevoir switch in is going to be hampered by Taunt or Will-O-Wisp. Psyshock and Thunderbolt gives Gardevoir the best overall coverage against the most defensive Pokemon it can get with two attacks. This notably improves Gardevoir's performance against the primary bulky Waters, Alomomola, Milotic, and Vaporeon. Moonblast + Shadow Ball can allow Gardevoir to get better overall neutral coverage, as well as have a much easier time against Umbreon and simultaneously threatening opposing Gardevoir.

Wallbreakvoir

Gardevoir @ Life Orb
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond / Healing Wish

One of the sets I don't think people have payed much attention to is a wallbreaker set. Gardevoir has enough Speed to outpace most walls and slower offensive Pokemon and can dish out some serious damage with its high Special Attack and great coverage. Moonblast and Psyshock smack virtually everything for pretty big damage. Shadow Ball is kind of mandatory so Doublade doesn't set up in your face (catching it on the switch is ideal though) and it hits most Steels for at least neutral damage. The final move is what sets Garde apart from other wallbreakers right now: Destiny Bond. Pairing Gardevoir up with something that hates having to deal with shit like Alolan Muk, Escavalier, etc. can simply have a door opened up wide as Gardevoir sacrifices itself to remove its own check for a teammate. Healing Wish can still work, but it's not as effective when Gardevoir isn't outspeeding nigh everything in the tier.

Boostvoir

Gardevoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute / Taunt

Instead of breaking teams right away, revenge killing, or breaking down stall cores, this Gardevoir attempts to set up its own sweep. Calm Mind boosts its damage output to extremely high levels. Moonblast + Shadow Ball has the best overall coverage of Gardevoir's moves, thus making them the best overall choices for attacking moves. Substitute allows Gardevoir to set up safely on a forced switch or simply escape stuff like Alolan Muk at only a small cost. Taunt can be used over Substitute to heighten performance against the likes of Milotic (be careful of accidentally giving it Competitive boosts!) Another move combination to consider is Psyshock / Psychic + Thunderbolt as these two types also work very well with each other. If running Taunt, Psyshock + Thunderbolt can be very worth your time to deal with Milotic more safely. And yes, this is somewhat based off the post above me here, so not completely my idea here. Just kind of changed the moves a little bit to not be total bait for Steels.

 

[StarBlim]

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Hp/68 Atk/188 Def/SpD
Nature: Impish/Careful
- Spirit Shackle
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic

This sets use it to Break Stall/Walls on opposing teams, Being able to trap these mons while subbing so they can't status you is a way to Break defensive cores like regi+mola 68 Atk is to garentee a ko on Gardevoir and hp and defensive EVs to take some hits

calcs

68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 278-330 (100.3 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 194-230 (48.7 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

So I made a list predicting what I think RU is gonna be looking like, a few people in the RU chat said it looks decent, so I'm gonna just post it here and explain some reasoning behind it: http://pastebin.com/B1HuXgnK

- On my list I think a big "huh?" for those poring through it might be that I'm speculating Gigalith to be in UU. Maybe I'm not 100% on how often I've seen it played, but the Pokemon is actually pretty solid up there, and in a tier with Mega Charizard Y on a ton of teams, Gigalith holds a powerful niche in the tier just off that alone, on top of setting hazards. Also a serviceable check to stuff like Dragonite, Salamence, Staraptor, Togekiss, and even Weavile in UU. If it ever falls to RU it's cause people are sleeping on it, but I highly doubt that's even the case.

- "Every dog has his day" right? This is a big stretch even for me honestly, and I could be wrong...but Arcanine holds some strong underrated viability in UU currently for being a solid counter to Jirachi, Weavile, and Scizor, which is a boon for any defensive/balanced team to have. SpD Arcanine also beats Mega Charizard Y, if the defensive/balanced team in question has other answers to Weavile, so that's a thing. If Arcanine does wind up in RU, I'll be kinda sad because in any tier where Entei exists means Arcanine will forever be the underdog...literally.

The majority of the mons you see that I predict to join RU are former UU staples...it's sad to say but a lot of them just aren't being used heavily in UU right now...I'm sure a lot will rise sooner or later but for now you're gonna have to greet a few (un)familiar faces:

Super Long Detailed List

- Azelf coming to RU will be pretty dope, being that it's a potent Sash lead, Nasty Plot Sweeper, and offensive Stealth Rock setter. Base 115 Speed tier is highly coveted, and this time around there won't be nearly as many unboosted threats naturally outspeeding Azelf for it to contend with. Some guy's probably gonna try Choice Band/Scarf sets, so I'll mention them too despite them being frowned upon with Azelf since forever. The only real threats stopping the Nasty Plot set defensively would be Umbreon, (T-Wave) Cresselia, Porygon2, Sableye (if not running Dazzling Gleam), Guzzlord (read:Sableye), Muk-Alola, and Snorlax to a degree. Offensively it's a lot easier to deal with, as stuff like Crobat, Scarf Tyrantrum, and Talonflame can outspeed for a clutch KO. Priority from Honchkrow also holds Azelf back, but I still see it being a big threat. If it lands in RU I can't see it anywhere below A rank.

- Despite being one of the handful of usable Mega Evolutions in Gen 7, UU's currently more fixated on stuff like Mega Aerodactyl, Sharpedo, and Charizard Y for their mega slots. Starmie also eclipses Blastoise's role in UU due to having much better Speed, Analytic + great coverage, and access to Recover, which are all reasons I think RU will be getting FREE TICKETS TO THE GUN SHOW. It feels like it'll reprise the same role it had last gen, being an offensive Water-type wallbreaker/spinner/anti-spinblocker. Pretty huge that Dhelmise and Deidueye can't spinblock against it either, though Blastoise probably invest in speed to creep the latter. They're most likely getting into huge "speed creeping" wars, with stuff like Nidoqueen and Honchkrow hovering at that range too.

- Busted last gen in UU, gonna be even more busted in a much slower version of the same tier, with no Hydreigon forcing it to run Dazzling Gleam. Can run a ton of sets from Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, defensive support, offensive hazards, Choice Scarf, and even Baton Pass if you guys don't ban that for whatever reason. Fast track straight to S rank, if not BL2. Don't get me wrong, it'll still have answers, just as it did before. But defensively, there's no absolute true counters for this Pokemon. Maybe I'm overhyping it, but this metagame feels like Celebi will have leeway to use more than Nasty Plot as its primary offensive set. Far as checks go, there's a ton of them though (according to my list): Escavalier, Goodra, Guzzlord, Crobat, Durant, Snorlax, Mienshao, Azelf, etc. etc. It's not that Celebi will be unbeatable so much as that it can choose what it will ever lose to, with its team covering everything else.

- I feel like Chandy might be worse in SM RU than it was in ORAS UU...Stuff like Goodra actually being...GOOD, as well as new threats like Alolan Muk with Pursuit, and Drampa using it as absolute setup fodder hurt its viability. Tyrantrum being around every corner isn't too great either. Needless to say, Choice Specs sets and SubCM sets using Florges as setup fodder mean Chandelure will remain a pivotal key for busting up Balance and defensive cores. Choice Scarf might be a bit better though because once again, no Hydreigon ruining your day. Honestly Scarf Chandy might be really vicious in this format lol

- Chesnaught's pretty cool for setting up Spikes, and it's an incredible answer to stuff like Tyrantrum, Cobalion, Feraigatr, Crawdaunt, and Virizion lacking Zen Headbutt (Bulletproof trollishly blocks Focus Blast too, so no CM sets ruining your day). With that said, I think Chesnaught isn't gonna shine too much in SM RU. In UU he at least had stuff like Suicune and Swampert to exploit, and he was a keen answer to Gyarados. This tier has more mons to exploit Chesnaught, and even with Leech Seed + Spiky Shield it is pretty passive. I think Tangrowth might be better overall honestly, but only by a small margin, and only because of its offensive coverage and access to Sleep Powder. CB Chesnaught might throw someone for a loop though, lol. Innovate while it's cool

- Highkey broken. Cloyster's got fewer Steel-types and bulky Water-types ruining its day this time around, and in a metagame as slow as this, barely anything is outspeeding it at +2 without a Scarf...and even then, if you run a +Spe nature on Cloyster, good luck revenge killing, as even Scarf Mienshao falls completely short. However, you have to use the "good set" with like...Hydro Pump, Rock Blast, and Icicle Spear if you truly plan on shattering the meta. Some dude somewhere is probably gonna use King's Rock on this so I may as well call that now too I guess. Sigh...it's cheese no matter how you cut it man.

- This mon is why I suggested Hydro Pump on Cloyster. I mean, you've had Cobalion in RU before, you guys remember how that went...You've seen Cobalion in UU before haven't you? This meta I'm predicting to look a lot like last gen's UU, so it probably fares the same there. Decent "glue" mon for offensive support that can act as a cleaner, hazard setter, or sweeper. Definitely going to be seen on a number of teams to combat the rise in stuff like Comfey, Gardevoir, and Florges, despite not being able to directly switch into the latter two too comfortably. Cobalion's always been a consistent mon in every meta it winds up in, so I can expect the same here too.

- Broken. Obscene amounts of strength. What's also wack is how well Conkeldurr fits into the bulky-offensive orientation that RU generally leans towards, meaning you can expect Conkeldurr to be a hit on Trick Room teams, as well as offensive Balance teams. While Fairy-types will be in no shortage for the sake of keeping Conkeldurr in check, they still have to be wary of Poison Jab from Choice Band/Sheer Force LO sets, while Bulk Up Conkeldurr is a nasty balance breaker. Some dude is gonna use AV Conk in this meta, so get ready for that. Sadly, it's probably still not even a bad set here either, though I wouldn't say it's as great as its other ones.

- Crawdaunt is kinda like a Water-type Conkeldurr in a lot of regards, just with Adaptability, and in a metagame with less bulky Water-types oppressing it with Scald hax. Defensive teams are gonna hate this guy, and pretty much keep Virizion/Tangrowth/Chesnaught at arm's length in order to deal with Crawdaunt. Even then, mixed sets with Ice Beam/Sludge Wave were a thing in ORAS UU, and they'll be a thing here too. If you are using a slow team that lacks a faster Water resist or a Grass-type, expect to lose to Crawdaunt. Fast teams still have to be wary of boosted Aqua Jet, but that's really it. Fortunately the Dragon Dance set still gets outsped by Cobalion at +1 even with a +Spe nature, so no worries about DD Crawdaunt being a big hit here at least.

- Cresselia's been in RU before, we all know how that one goes. It was godly back then, it'll be godly now with the only Dark-types I see contesting it being Crawdaunt (which you can outspeed and beat with Colbur + Moonblast), Sneasel, Alolan Muk, and Pangoro. It'll have a few new checks in the form of Crunch Bruxish, Vikavolt, Curselax, Heracross, Ribombee, and others, at least, so Cresselia might be kept in check a bit more easily during the early stages of the meta.

- Look, why do you think I'm so interested in RU all of a sudden? I go where Crobat goes, and based on what I've seen of UU Alpha, Crobat's going here. Sucks to say it, but Bat is outclassed up there as an offensive Flying-type by Tornadus-T and Staraptor, while Starmie, Latias, and Scizor do a way better job of removing hazards. Down here, Crobat will be a solid glue mon for offensive and balanced teams for its great typing + Speed + access to Defog, checking stuff like Celebi, Mienshao, Virizion, Conkeldurr, Florges, Whimsicott, and so much more.

- RU's history with fast offensive Fire-types has shown me that the tier really does not like them, lol. And when your only Water-type answers to Darmanitan here are Alomomola (the only real "counter"), Slowking (who hates U-turn), Milotic (who can't take LO/CB Flare Blitz), Vaporeon (read: Milotic), I don't see Darmanitan staying around here, as it just slaps bulky teams around and U-turns on would-be hard checks, such as Rhyperior, Qwilfish, Turtonator, Tyrantrum, Guzzlord, and Minior. The only thing really keeping Darmanitan in check is hazards and offensive pressure, and it's pretty much forcing every balanced team to run a bulky Water. Let's not even consider how easily-enabled "Fire spam" is with Darmanitan paired alongside stuff like Entei and Moltres.

- Dragalge didn't really get any toys this gen, just more mons capable of being blown up by it, yet at the same time, more Pokemon capable of killing it. I don't see it being too different compared to how it was last gen, the only difference being there's scarier offensive Dragons to worry about, due to them having better Speed. Needless to say, A Dragon-type that eats Fairies alive and in a tier with only 2 Steel-types that want to come in on Draco Meteor from you is highly promising.

- We started referring to this mon as "Dongphan" for a reason right? Ground-type spinners never get any love in their respective metagames, and I don't see Donphan getting much here. Hopefully RU ladder doesn't do what UU did for an entire gen and have low ladder population keep its usage high enough to remain in a tier that it objectively sucked in. Let this guy go to NU in peace. Role compression is cool, but Donphan offers little else for teams...Gligar, Palossand and Mudsdale are better as bulky Ground-types, Dhelmise is a better spinner/Electric check, and I'm sure you can find a dozen better Stealth Rock users.

- While I consider Kevin Durant a sellout for joining the team that blew his out in a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals, the Pokemon Durant is actually a pretty respectable Pokemon...An offensive check to so many of the new toys I predict RU to get...Celebi, Florges, Roserade, etc. The number of new Pokemon kept in check by it compared to the number of Pokemon capable of handling it is vastly skewed in Durant's favor, so you can expect it to be as big a threat as it was last gen, if not even moreso now.

- Entei? Read: Darmanitan, but add instant burns + Extreme Speed to everything I said about that guy. Burns being nerfed might have nailed Entei's viability in the coffin in UU, but down here, Entei's lighting the entire tier on fire. Decent bulk also helps it be pretty scary even for offensive teams, as unlike Darmanitan, Entei can switch in on some more things comfortably.

- Espeon is pretty cool, and thanks to Magic Bounce and base 110 Speed, it'll find a role for itself in the meta that Celebi, Cresselia, and even Mew can't fill, being able to run Specs and CM sets. Some guy's gonna use Scarf Espeon. Calling it now. I think it's a sucky choice personally but it might not even be all that bad, honestly. Sucks that pretty much every Dark-type worth worrying about in RU (idk if you worry about Guzzlord, but if you do, he doesn't count here) will have priority for dealing with Espeon, or Pursuit to trap it.

- Feraligatr is the spiritual successor to Crawdaunt in that while it might not be able to nuke things with STAB Adaptability Knock Off/Waterfalls, it can actually terrorize offensive teams with Dragon Dance sets, and break bulky teams down with Swords Dance. Agility Gatr isn't too shabby either. This guy will probably get banned unless the entire RU meta revolves around using Scarf Grass/Electric mons in every team.

- Florges, I predict to be the resident bulky Fairy-type of RU...I'm betting it gives Comfey a run for its money personally, despite all that Comfey has going for it in comparison. The huge amount of SpD allowing it to check nearly every special attacker that isn't a boosting sweeper on top of Fairy typing just seems too splashable for Balanced teams, just as it was in XY UU before Sylveon essentially did the exact same thing but better. And having better HP than Comfey cements its role as a cleric, though Aromatisse may be better for that role, idk. Still a good mon all around. In this metagame lacking too many special walls, I wouldn't be surprised to see offensive CM Florges becoming a thing either down the line after a few (or several) bans take place and the meta stabilizes.

- Destiny Bond was nerfed, but Froslass gained Will-O-Wisp in exchange. This is an odd case, as I dunno how well Froslass will fare in an RU with much better hazard removal than it had last gen. Enabling Spikestack Offense is pretty big though, being the only big new Spikes user besides Forretress and Chesnaught, both of which Froslass surpasses as a lead.

- Speaking of, Forretress is gonna be kinda okay. I don't have high hopes for it, as a huge number of mons (mostly Fire-types, Ground-types, Ghost-types, and bulky sweepers) exploit and use it as setup bait, and it gets crudely spinblocked on by Chandelure, Dhelmise, Decidueye, Sableye, Jellicent, and every single Ghost-type in the game. But role compression is still cool, gaining Rapid Spin + Hazards, Volt Switch, all the while being a useful check to stuff like Celebi (if you run Pin Missile).

- I was never a huge fan of Galvantula being in UU last gen, and this gen I really hope you guys keep him. His niche in Sticky Webs is rare even thus far in UU and I hope it stays that way tbh. Webs was kinda busted last gen in RU, but this gen you guys are getting more than enough hazard removers to deal with it, so that's a positive. The scariest thing about Galvantula is its Speed tier + being one of the few Electric-types that has zero fear of Ground-types switching in on it. However, being countered by Goodra, Dragalge, Florges, Snorlax, Porygon2, etc. keeps it from being too scary.

- Gardevoir is downright vicious, and defensively this tier's got barely anything for it. Choice Specs sets are a nightmare to switch into due to Gardevoir's insane coverage, while Calm Mind can break defensive cores apart easily. Fortunately AV Escavalier/Alolan Muk chew virtually any hit even with Rocks up and get a clean Pursuit off, but Gardevoir is still a force to be reckoned with, as the tier doesn't have much for offensive Fairies that also have access to Fighting coverage and Psychic STAB. Not to mention, Choice Scarf sets will remedy its average Speed tier and let it threaten offense, muscling past Scarf Tyrantrum.

- You oughta be happy to have Gligar back, RU desperately needed this guy. You already know what it does and how it goes...switches into everything that doesn't pack a Water or Ice move, sets rocks/defogs/roosts/U-turns on its face. Sadly I think the competition it gets from Crobat/Decidueye as a Defog user, on top of the number of new threats the tier has will hurt Gligar's usage, though it'll still be a solid mon for any team in need of a bulky Ground-type that can set/remove hazards.

- Goodra finally can see a meta where it lives up to the first four letters of its name! Extremely tanky, excellent coverage, decent Speed (enough in RU that it can actually run Speed investment), and being able to hit incredibly hard with physical AND special sets, it's no wonder nearly everybody is hyping Goodra up to be a potentially busted mon in this format! Look forward to dealing with insane bulk and offensive versatility...as well as the options of even running bulky defensive sets.

- Finally Haxorus gets to shine in a meta where Hydreigon isn't literally one step ahead of it Speed-wise, where it can outspeed the entire unboosted tier after a single Dragon Dance, where it can break down nearly every wall after a single Swords Dance, where it doesn't have to fear Mamoswine coming in to Ice Shard it and avert its sweeps, where it can pretty much kill everything with the proper coverage moves alone. If setting up and sweeping isn't your thing, throw a Choice Band or a Scarf on Haxorus and just click moves. Very easily a quickban candidate at the absolute worst. It's a shame too because Haxorus just struggled to find super high viability in any meta that it was "balanced" enough to be used in, while being obscenely too strong for the tiers below. Staraptor Syndrome at its finest.

- Z-Mirror Move says what up. Honchkrow was fearsome enough to get sent to BL2 last gen, and I don't see its potential decreasing given how slow and bulky the tier is. Honchkrow is the Pokemon responsible for Pokemon at the "Tanky but have enough Speed to creep bulky offensive mons" speed tier using enough EVs to hit 242 Speed for a few gens straight, a testament to how influential it is, and how easy of a benchmark 242 is to hit. (Yes I know Tyrantrum does the same thing but I'm trying to generate hype here) Sucker Punch being nerfed hurt it a bit, but firing off Brave Birds with base 125 Attack and having access to Superpower and Moxie, you'll be busy killing too many things to care. Fortunately, honchkrow still suffers when faced with faster Dark resists, such as Heracross, Passimian, and Comfey. Diancie also straight-up walls this guy so that's cool too.

- You had this guy before, what's there to say now? Being outright ruined by Dhelmise and Decidueye didn't do much for Heliolisk's image, but it's still potent bringing base 109 Speed and Dry Skin to the table. And if Drought somehow isn't banned, Solar Power Heliolisk will nuke everything not named AV Goodra practically by itself in Sun.

- You know, I'm starting to realize that I predicted RU to get a bunch of middling-speed balance/stallbreakers in the metagame, and this one is on the upside of them. Having enough Speed to effectively kill a number of offensive mons, having enough bulk to switch into resisted hits from said offensive mons, and having enough Attack to already 2HKO things without factoring a power-boosting item is big...you add Heracross's coverage, Guts/Moxie, and stuff like Swords Dance, Toxic/Flame Orb, and Choice Scarf into the mix, and you're looking at one of the most dangerous Fighting-types in the tier. A multifaceted weapon of physically-based mass destruction.

Okay look it's 4 AM and I spent ages writing this post, I didn't realize how huge of a task I burdened myself with typing this post lol. I ain't got the energy to finish, I might add the rest in tomorrow, but the TL;DR is I predict RU is gonna look like UU with all the new threats you're most likely getting, so be ready

 

[guan123]

I see a "cascade" effect. UU alpha has many ORAS OU mons, and RU "alpha" (first form of RU) seems to have several ORAS UU mons in it because these are not being used frequently in RU. Cool Story Brobat already fleshed out the new drops in great detail, and I am expecting the bottom to drop out from RU. Everything in the C ranks (C+, C, C- and D) on the viability ranking will probably drop down to NU. This causes a "waterfall" of pokemon from UU to RU and RU to NU. Note that these "cascaded" pokemon are gen 6 and earlier mons, not gen 7 mons.

Anyone think now that shuckle is legal, sticky web will get better? Many of the new mons are slow and would appreciate sticky web (or trick room).

 

[EonX]

So anyone that remembers XY RU knows how much I simply adore Milotic. It's the Defog counter RU needed last gen to make people think twice about using Defog Flygon, but with a new generation upon us, I'm really hoping Milotic sticks it out with us in RU this generation. It has a fantastic movepool and stat spread for what it's designed to do and it happens to waste every common hazard remover in the tier (though it obviously can't safely come in on Decidueye and Dhelmise) which is something any Spikes or Sticky Web team can utilize effectively. It's typing is great defensively as well, meaning it's not completely deadweight as a defensive Pokemon with moves like Haze, Scald, and Recover. That being said, I really feel Milotic shines as an offensive tank; being able to dish out hits and take better advantage of Competitive while still being able to handle some resisted hits and neutral special hits well. Here's the two main sets I think Milotic should run with right now:

Offensive Tank

Drive Boost (Milotic) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 152 HP / 136 Def / 176 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Hidden Power Grass / Scald

With an offensive tank set, Milotic can take hits and dish them out pretty well. Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Recover are essential for this set to work. Hydro Pump hits pretty dang hard, especially with a boost while Ice Beam allows Milotic to always OHKO Gligar and 2HKO Decidueye and Dhelmise. Recover is necessary to allow Milotic to more reliably play the tank role its designed to play, allowing it to heal its HP to continue taking hits. HP Grass gives Milotic coverage on opposing Water-types as well as straight OHKOing most variants of Seismitoad. However, because Milotic needs a Competitive boost to actually push past opposing bulky Waters reliably, Scald is a viable alternative for when you just want to throw out a STAB move safely rather than attempt to break something. As far as the EVs go, I started with this as a baseline and kind of went from there. The Speed EVs is for 8 Speed Gligar so that it can't chip me as it departs, but Milotic can honestly use a lot of different spreads with this set. You can move the Defense EVs to SpDef in order to better check Moltres, but I generally like the physdef EVs considering most hazard removers hit on the physical side if they decide to attack as Milotic switches in instead of removing entry hazards. The HP hits a Life Orb number and Special Attack hits a jump point. I like Life Orb for the power boost, as it allows Milotic to be pretty threatening offensively in the absence of a Competitive boost and absolutely menacing with a boost. However, Leftovers is an option, especially if you're using SpDef EVs instead of PhysDef to be a bit safer against Moltres.

Defensive

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive / Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe OR 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe (or some optimal mixed spread)
Bold or Calm Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze / Dragon Tail
- Ice Beam

While I personally am not a fan of defensive Milotic, its typing and access to Recover + Haze is definitely something other bulky Waters wish they had. if you use Milotic defensively, you should be using it for this reason, as it's otherwise outclassed by Alomomola imo. Scald is the main STAB move for obvious reasons due to the 30% burn chance and decent power. I've already explained Recover and Haze, but I should just drive home the point of how cool this is for defensive teams to have in their bulky Water-type. If you're running Spikes support, Dragon Tail is an ok alternative as Milotic dissuades the removal of entry hazards due to its ability and typing. Ice Beam fills the last slot as Milotic still has base 100 Special Attack, thus allowing it to chip down opposing Grass-types pretty effectively upon switch in. There's probably an optimal mixed spread out there that I don't know about, but Milo can be PhysDef or SpDef due to its typing and stat spread. Competitive is generally preferred as the ability to dissuade the removal of entry hazards and to get odd Special Attack boosts, but Marvel Scale can make Milotic arguably the best defensive burn absorber in the tier thanks to the Defense buff and the nerf burn had this gen (only cancelling Leftovers recovery)

PARTNERS

Regardless of the set Milotic is running, Chesnaught is a very good partner for it. Thanks to its access to Spikes, ability to switch into most Grass- and Electric-types safely, and tendency to draw out Ice- and Fire-type Pokemon for Milotic to switch into, Chesnaught is as close to a dream partner that Milotic gets. Milotic should usually run a SpDef spread on its defensive set when working with Chesnaught, but other than that, you can stick to the EVs given above for the given sets. Chesnaught should almost always be physically defensive due to its ability to counter Tyrantrum and soft check Durant. It's also able to run Roar, which, in combination with Haze SpDef Milotic, should ensure that your team will almost never be overwhelmed by setup sweepers. Physical Flying-types and Bloom Doom Moltres are serious threats for a Chesnaught + Milotic backbone core, but hey, that's what you have teammates for, right?

OFFENSIVE TANK PARTNERS

While these are the two main Stealth Rock setters, pretty much any bulky Stealth Rock setter will appreciate offensive Milotic backing them up. While Cobalion is capable of slowing up most Defoggers on its own, it appreciates having Milotic chilling in the back to just abuse Gligar and Flygon since their STAB Earthquakes can take their toll. As far as Gigalith goes, it fares quite poorly against most entry hazard removers, but it can Toxic most bulky Waters to help Milotic to break past them. That said, it's advised to run Leftovers on Milotic if using it with Gigalith due to Sand Stream + LO recoil quickly stacking up.

As offensive Milotic is a bulky attacker / wallbreaker, it stands to reason most faster Pokemon / Scarf users pair well with it. Gardevoir and Tyrantrum are the key Scarf users to look at considering their high power and solid Speed tiers. Bloom Doom Moltres can nuke the fat Water-types that Milotic can struggle with, thus forming quite the terrifying wallbreaking core. Heliolisk kind of splits the ground here. It's faster than a lot of offensive Pokemon, but slower than Scarf Gardevoir and Tyrantrum. However, it's able to handle most bulky Water-types effectively thanks to Dry Skin and Electric STAB. All of these Pokemon LOVE Spikes support, so having Milotic chilling to dissuade Defog can be huge for them.

Sticky Web is a natural choice with Competitive Milotic thanks to its offensive nature and the fact Sticky Web can help it outspeed many more Pokemon. Shuckle is by far the best user, but Masquerain isn't exactly terrible either due to its access to Ice Beam to smash Gligar itself rather than having to rely on Milotic to punish it. If you decide to support Milotic with Sticky Web, it's advised to heavily invest in Speed to take as much advantage of Sticky Web as possible.

DEFENSIVE SET PARTNERS

Although previously mentioned, I have to reiterate how cool Chesnaught + Milotic can be for a defensive backbone. Their typings, abilities, and movepool complement each other so well and I dare say that defnesive Milotic is borderline pointless without Chesnaught by its side.

As defensive Milotic is more defensive in nature, it stands to reason it works better with fatter Stealth Rock setters. I've already gone over Gigalith in the offensive tank portion, but Gligar has pretty good defensive synergy with Milotic, especially SpDef Milotic and can choose to run Immunity if it forgoes Defog to cover Milotic against Toxic while Milotic can choose to run Marvel Scale to absorb burns and get a boost from it. Necrozma is an odd Pokemon, but its access to Stealth Rock and reliable recovery can't go unnoticed, thus allowing it hang around for a while. Sadly, its defensive synergy is kind of meh with Milotic. Registeel is an obvious option thanks to its great defensive synergy with Milotic and tendency to be able to switch into most Grass- and Electric-types. With a PhysDef spread, Milotic can generally check most Fire- and Ground-types.

Entry hazard removal is definitely nice as Milotic hates Toxic and doesn't exactly appreciate having to use Recover more often than it has to. Decidueye and Gligar have the best defensive synergy with Milotic followed closely by Flygon. That said, Flygon is usually better off doing other things atm and while Donphan can Rapid Spin, it's very suseptible to being worn down, unlike the previous three due to their access to reliable recovery in Roost.

What's a defensive team without cleric support? Diancie and Umbreon are easily the best clerics right now due to their typing and bulk. While Diancie has more defensive synergy with Milotic, Umbreon comes with the added benefit of Wish support. Diancie is better off if you're going for a more balanced team while Umbreon is better for a more strict defensive team.

You'll want a spinblocker if you're using defensive Milotic with entry hazard support and these are probably the best Pokemon for the job. Doublade is probably the best as it can act as a reliable win condition on top of being a form of spinblocking. Ghost Sylvally and Dhelmise are also pretty solid spinblockers with Sylvally being a good check to Fighting-types while Dhelmise can break down walls with a Choice Band set. Decidueye is probably the least effective directly with Milotic, but running an extra teammate that can benefit from an SD or NP pass can be very useful as Defog will likely be counterproductive.

/endpost can you tell I love Milotic? xD

 

[aVocado]

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Hp/68 Atk/188 Def/SpD
Nature: Impish/Careful
- Spirit Shackle
- Substitute
- Roost
- Toxic

This sets use it to Break Stall/Walls on opposing teams, Being able to trap these mons while subbing so they can't status you is a way to Break defensive cores like regi+mola 68 Atk is to garentee a ko on Gardevoir and hp and defensive EVs to take some hits

calcs

68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 278-330 (100.3 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 194-230 (48.7 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

You didn't account for Necrozma's Prism Armour:

68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 145-172 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[StarBlim]

You didn't account for Necrozma's Prism Armour:

68 Atk Decidueye Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 145-172 (36.4 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

O yea true derp

 

[-Tsunami-]

EVERYONE'S FAVORITE TEAM STYLE IS BACK
RegiMola is still amazing in SM, friends...
The core received three amazing partners in

.

Doublade is absolutely amazing for RegiMola cores, its great natural bulk allowing it to easily combat threats to the RegiMola core such as Tyrantrum and Virizion. Doublade's main selling point, however, is its offensive capabilities; there hasn't really been a mon like Doublade in RU's history (outside of Doublade last generation, obviously), that can easily wall such major threats while also being a threat offensively. Doublade allows RegiMola teams to apply more offensive pressure to the opposition, while simultaneously giving them a solid answer to many fo the threats that plague them. Doublade is also obviously amazing for Offense teams, as it allows them to have a solid check for many metagame-defining threats that can simultaneously put a dent in the opposition.

Gligar, aka defensive Flygon except actually AMAZING, is once again back to plague offensive players. Gligar is ridiculously bulky, and its great typing in tandem with this bulk allows it to be the best Defogger this tier has ever seen. Gligar fulfills almost all of the roles Flygon did on RegiMola teams, trading in some Speed for a great deal more bulk. This Pokemon will surely make RegiMola even more difficult to break.

Lastly, we have Florges, which is an absolute god-send for RegiMola teams. It is literally Aromatisse done right; it is fast enough to outspeed threats such as Gurdurr, has access to Aromatherapy, is bulky enough to set up Calm Minds, and is strong enough to pressure the opposition. Florges allows RegiMola teams to deal with annoying Pokemon such as Sableye very easily. It's also worth noting that CM Florges can easily set up on defensive Venusaur, especially with Aromatherapy to shrug off potential Sludge Bomb poisons.

24 SpA Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 92-110 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- 1.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

A set of Synthesis / Aromatherapy / Calm Mind / Moonblast works perfectly for RegiMola cores, and it should FINALLY get the awful excuse for a Virizion "counter" that is Aromatisse out of our tier.

Of course, these Pokemon do not cover every threat to RegiMola cores, which is why you do in fact have a 6th slot. Moltres will always be a threat, however, so hopefully we ban it if it ever ends up in this tier...because it's still absolutely broken; not to mention, it only gained tools in Z-moves such as Z-Sunny Day, which boosts its Speed 1 stage and allows it to use Solarbeam to destroy Water-types.

Long live RegiMola :D

 

[guan123]

Great idea. For the 6th slot, a good one would be goodra because spdef goodra checks Moltres. Gigalith could work, but only if the sand is up (because sand halves the damage of solar beam). Doublade is a good wincon with swords dance shadow sneak and could work well for the stall team, as you said.

Do you think that RU will lose any pokemon to UU, BL, or OU? Which RU pokemon will drop to NU?

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Do you think that RU will lose any pokemon to UU, BL, or OU? Which RU pokemon will drop to NU?

Reall though, the only lower tier mons the likes of RU and NU will lose in the long run are Mantine and Pelipper. (Once OU settles, it's hard to say if these two will still be viable) These two were ranked in RU last gen but they weren't super good or anything.

In terms of the other question, I'd suggest asking such a thing in the SM NU thread. Generally though, these threads seem to discuss new mons rather than old ones dropping, at least for tiers that don't have an existing tier to go off of, which NU really doesn't at the moment (RU for SM doesn't exist yet as an existing tier).

 

[EonX]

So with Shuckle in the tier currently, Sticky Web is back as a viable playstyle. It has all the tools it needs to succeed with Competitive Milotic being an offensive deterrent to Defog and Doublade blocking Rapid Spin pretty reliably. These Pokemon also pose serious threats offensively as Milotic is capable of throwing off powerful Hydro Pumps and Ice Beams while Doublade can set up a Swords Dance on the likes of Cobalion and Virizion pretty reliably. Pair this core with a Scarfer (Tyrantrum, Gardevoir, etc.) and a Stealth Rock setter (I personally love Cobalion, but when have I not loved Cobalion? LOL) and you have yourself a pretty complete team with one open slot for extra support. Here's the sets I've been using along with a replay or two showing the effectiveness of said core:

Core sets

Shuckle (M) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Encore
- Knock Off

Milotic (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Scald

Doublade (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head

Shuckle is pretty self-explanatory, so I won't talk about it much. Milotic has Scald over HP Grass since that allows it to clean up more reliably if Webs are up. Timid is used so that Milotic can outpace Scarfers like Gardevoir, Tyrantrum, and the odd Medicham under Sticky Web. As for Doublade, Sacred Sword is used over Iron Head to hit Cobalion hard and to destroy the odd Rapid Spin Alolan Sandslash, but Iron Head is certainly viable over it for obvious reasons. Sacred Sword also allows it to beat Registeel and Steel Sylvally. More Speed can be run, but I don't really know of any benchmarks atm.

Replay 1 - Doublade putting in amazing work alongside Helio and Milotic.
Replay 2 - Gardevoir being an absolute beast.

Probably not the best replays, but it's the best I have for now.

 

[guan123]

Anyone think honchkrow will be good? Z-mirror move is a swords dance + free z move of the opponent. This will make honchkrow harder to stop (especially with moxie).
Honchkrow @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Mirror Move
- Superpower
Seems like a good idea, especially on a Sticky Web team (shuckle and possibly galvantula will move down). At +3, Honchkrow is very hard to stop (a nightmare for stall)