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Spe-Neutrality
- Thread starter Sun King
- Start date
I think i know the answer to this, but how does pursuit work in this metagame? Does it become useless?
Only next to useless. It still hits stuff. Just not the stuff you want to hit.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
since pursuit IS a move, im guessing pursuit is pretty bad if you don't outspeed. since pursuits "trapping" effect is prioritized and thus, gets reduced to 0. And that means if you aren't fast, pursuit sucks since most of the stuff that use it, are slow as shit and this meta takes away the niches of ever using pursuit: 50/50 with suckerpunch, or trapping latios/celebi and other phychic types, both of which i doubt wont run scarf. since both lose the priority they are known and loved for. id say its completely useless, since the only stuff you trap, are the shit you would rather get damage on and stay in on you regardless(plus i imagine slowmons will be next to gone). and the only psychic type id imagine pursuit will help against is reun, since its immune to hazards (barring mold breaker roar of course).
speaking of reun, some fun things: fast suicide lead trick room anyone? trick room is actually somewhat viable in this tier in theory, considering most people will focus on scarf/speed, meanwhile your team can outslow them, and proceed to nuke their lack of walls. focus punch conk will be funny before punch gets banned.
also for lulz:
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 307-362 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 328-387 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 289-342 (86.5 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
lol. yeah, i think focus punch might be a bit stronk.
speaking of reun, some fun things: fast suicide lead trick room anyone? trick room is actually somewhat viable in this tier in theory, considering most people will focus on scarf/speed, meanwhile your team can outslow them, and proceed to nuke their lack of walls. focus punch conk will be funny before punch gets banned.
also for lulz:
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 307-362 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 328-387 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 289-342 (86.5 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
lol. yeah, i think focus punch might be a bit stronk.
Oh god, TR support with Focus Punch Conkeldurr looks way too fun not to try. This is too much lol.
Talking of which, a lot of Trick Room 'mon that weren't viable before due to Talonflame are now suddenly good again. I can see Diancie losing it's niche as a TR setter because it was on the rankings purely for resisting T-Flame.
Talking of which, a lot of Trick Room 'mon that weren't viable before due to Talonflame are now suddenly good again. I can see Diancie losing it's niche as a TR setter because it was on the rankings purely for resisting T-Flame.
canno
formerly The Reptile
Trick Room is for babbies - use M-Lopunny if real :]
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Punch
- Circle Throw
- Return
- Healing Wish / Ice Punch
Focus Punch anything that dies to it. If your opponent doesn't die to it - go for Circle Throw and weaken everything. Thanks to Scrappy the only thing stopping you from phazing everyone is that 90% accuracy eventually making you miss, but this wouldn't be the first time Lopunny had to deal with a 90% accurate STAB. Note it also has 135 Speed so not much is outpacing your phazing. Pretty dank mon.
Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Focus Punch
- Circle Throw
- Return
- Healing Wish / Ice Punch
Focus Punch anything that dies to it. If your opponent doesn't die to it - go for Circle Throw and weaken everything. Thanks to Scrappy the only thing stopping you from phazing everyone is that 90% accuracy eventually making you miss, but this wouldn't be the first time Lopunny had to deal with a 90% accurate STAB. Note it also has 135 Speed so not much is outpacing your phazing. Pretty dank mon.
And now for a few Pokémon that were already viable in OU but now are even more viable!
Just in general it's going to get so much better. I really think the biggest thing holding it back from the A ranks in OU right now is because of Birdspam and to a lesser extent, other physical priority such as Bisharp and E-speed due to Volc's ridiculously low physical bulk. Well guess what, now they're all fucking dead. Pair up with a defogger, start getting up a few quiver dances, obliterate everything in your way. Ptchooooo, special Mega Charizard X here we go lol.
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Naive Nature
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spd
-Stealth Rock
-Trick Room
-Explosion
-Taunt/Fire Blast
This is perhaps a blanket observation of suicide leads in general, but when people were mentioning fast Trick Room I had no idea what they were talking about because once you get up the TR, you're still slow as shit. But then I remembered; Suicide Leads. And they're even better now they can't be bopped by priority anymore. Azelf now gets to take full advantage of it's base 115 speed tier to set up rocks, trick room, and then grab momentum by either dying or exploding. From there, bring your Conkeldurr, your Mega Camerupt, your Exploud, your whatever. I really think this could be a fantastic momentum grabber for TR teams in this meta.
Just in general it's going to get so much better. I really think the biggest thing holding it back from the A ranks in OU right now is because of Birdspam and to a lesser extent, other physical priority such as Bisharp and E-speed due to Volc's ridiculously low physical bulk. Well guess what, now they're all fucking dead. Pair up with a defogger, start getting up a few quiver dances, obliterate everything in your way. Ptchooooo, special Mega Charizard X here we go lol.
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Naive Nature
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spd
-Stealth Rock
-Trick Room
-Explosion
-Taunt/Fire Blast
This is perhaps a blanket observation of suicide leads in general, but when people were mentioning fast Trick Room I had no idea what they were talking about because once you get up the TR, you're still slow as shit. But then I remembered; Suicide Leads. And they're even better now they can't be bopped by priority anymore. Azelf now gets to take full advantage of it's base 115 speed tier to set up rocks, trick room, and then grab momentum by either dying or exploding. From there, bring your Conkeldurr, your Mega Camerupt, your Exploud, your whatever. I really think this could be a fantastic momentum grabber for TR teams in this meta.
I'm gonna go ahead and say Volcarona is actually going to get worse in this meta and here's why: Stealth Rocks are going to go up INSTANTLY and with the sheer amount of phasing, Volcarona is going to be a complete liability/waste of a team slot. It's going to die without ever doing anything.And now for a few Pokémon that were already viable in OU but now are even more viable!
Just in general it's going to get so much better. I really think the biggest thing holding it back from the A ranks in OU right now is because of Birdspam and to a lesser extent, other physical priority such as Bisharp and E-speed due to Volc's ridiculously low physical bulk. Well guess what, now they're all fucking dead. Pair up with a defogger, start getting up a few quiver dances, obliterate everything in your way. Ptchooooo, special Mega Charizard X here we go lol.
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Naive Nature
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spd
-Stealth Rock
-Trick Room
-Explosion
-Taunt/Fire Blast
This is perhaps a blanket observation of suicide leads in general, but when people were mentioning fast Trick Room I had no idea what they were talking about because once you get up the TR, you're still slow as shit. But then I remembered; Suicide Leads. And they're even better now they can't be bopped by priority anymore. Azelf now gets to take full advantage of it's base 115 speed tier to set up rocks, trick room, and then grab momentum by either dying or exploding. From there, bring your Conkeldurr, your Mega Camerupt, your Exploud, your whatever. I really think this could be a fantastic momentum grabber for TR teams in this meta.
I do like that Azelf set, however, and I can see that really being popular.
I think Psychic types will be markedly buffed thanks to the Pursuit nerf. Cresselia will be just THAT MUCH better (plus it gets TR, so yah it's gonna be important).
I agree with the Psychic type buff but I say it's mostly due to the Sucker Punch nerf (which if you remember, also fails if it goes second). Literally, their biggest concern now is knock off and Pokemon like Mega 'Zam just don't care about it with their nice speed tier and "resistance" to knock off.
don't forget about shadow ball and u-turn/megahorn/pin missile
Well of course those exist, but at least it doesn't have to worry about half of the viable dark moves anymore and shadow sneak is pointless now (so now physical ghosts really have a hard time finding STAB since nearly all standard options are weak or have drawbacks (like Phantom Force). It's more of a Mega 'Zam buff due to it being really fast only hindered before by all that priority. It's especially good if you capitalize on the right ability to Trace.
At least it has more of a use than standard OU. Most psychics do not use priority yet many of them are relatively fast so it's an overall buff for them if the rest of priority is removed
I'm on mobile so I'll edit all this with sprites and pretty formatting when I get back from vacation in a few days.
Something I think could be very effective in this meta is Automize Skarmory. With access to Whirlwind, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, and Automize, Skarmory could really be tailored to fit whatever hazard your team needs. It has the bulk to easily set up a hazard and/or an Automize--at which point it outpaces a huge portion of the metagame. It can then shuffle the opposing team. In this metagame, it could easily fill in for Mega Aerodactyl if you wanted to use Mega Sableye for anti shuffling utility.
So far, I would probably make a team with M-Sable, Magic Guard Clefable, and Skarmory. This core would be an excellent anti-hazard, anti-shuffling core with the ability to set up hazards and shuffle the opposing team. The best part is that all 3 get access to reliable recovery, meaning that they can keep themselves healthy after switching in a bunch.
Something I think could be very effective in this meta is Automize Skarmory. With access to Whirlwind, Spikes, Stealth Rocks, and Automize, Skarmory could really be tailored to fit whatever hazard your team needs. It has the bulk to easily set up a hazard and/or an Automize--at which point it outpaces a huge portion of the metagame. It can then shuffle the opposing team. In this metagame, it could easily fill in for Mega Aerodactyl if you wanted to use Mega Sableye for anti shuffling utility.
So far, I would probably make a team with M-Sable, Magic Guard Clefable, and Skarmory. This core would be an excellent anti-hazard, anti-shuffling core with the ability to set up hazards and shuffle the opposing team. The best part is that all 3 get access to reliable recovery, meaning that they can keep themselves healthy after switching in a bunch.
If Baton Pass teams were legal in this meta they would basically be forced to lead with Espeon and stay in until the opponent doesn't have their phazer in. IMO it won't be such a borked strat anymore because it is significantly more difficult to thrive in a meta where phazing is +0 priority. Just my two cents.
Now onto the stuff which is currently legal. I'm really looking foreward to abusing TR to the max in this metagame. The +0 priority on setting it up means that we can expect to see lots of fast suicide leads with TR (looking at you Whimsicott - not having prankster doesn't make you completely useless ;P TR+Memento+base 116 speed+Chlorophyll for sun leads=amazing suicide setter). I could also see regen 'mons having far more of a niche this time around, and I expect that there will be a big increase in the use of regenerator cores (namely Alomomola+Amoonguss).
Now onto the stuff which is currently legal. I'm really looking foreward to abusing TR to the max in this metagame. The +0 priority on setting it up means that we can expect to see lots of fast suicide leads with TR (looking at you Whimsicott - not having prankster doesn't make you completely useless ;P TR+Memento+base 116 speed+Chlorophyll for sun leads=amazing suicide setter). I could also see regen 'mons having far more of a niche this time around, and I expect that there will be a big increase in the use of regenerator cores (namely Alomomola+Amoonguss).
Thundy is definitely hit hard by the nerf, but Defiant attacking sets are still cool. And yeah, Prankster and Gale Wings basically become Illuminate.
Is this playable anywhere?
Unfortunately, not yet. If we can get some real nice discussion on this, we could see a winner for OMoTM! (For next month, that is)
I'd like to see this metagame be the OMoTM, cause it's a great idea! shuffling's gonna be ridiculous. has anyone thought of the damage RP M-Diancie can do here? scisor can't even threaten it with bullet punch now! Also, baton pass is going to be much harder to pull off here cause of the proliferation of phasing!
Hey! In case you guys did not notice, I featured this metagame in our very first OM Spotlight for the Smog! Come give it a read: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue43/other-meta-spotlight
Alrighty now! Let's generate some buzz for this before OMotM comes around again!
Here's another set I can see really being fun to use in this metagame...
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
-Whirlwind
-Automize
-Defog
-Stealth Rock/Spikes/Taunt
The premise of this set is to absolutely harass the opponent with Whirlwind. This set is *all* about going fast. You have Automoze to boost your speed to +2 and Weak Armor to help you get that initial speed boost. Defog helps clear hazards from your own side so you aren't harassed by shuffling. The last move slot is a tough choice. You can go SR for guaranteed damage against everything, Spikes for added damage against grounded Pokemon, or Taunt to prevent things from laying hazards or shuffling you (Dragon Tail excluded).
The main item I chose is Leftovers because you can really take advantage of the shuffling turns and heal yourself back up. It helps alleviate the loss of Roost on this set.
Here's another set I can see really being fun to use in this metagame...
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
-Whirlwind
-Automize
-Defog
-Stealth Rock/Spikes/Taunt
The premise of this set is to absolutely harass the opponent with Whirlwind. This set is *all* about going fast. You have Automoze to boost your speed to +2 and Weak Armor to help you get that initial speed boost. Defog helps clear hazards from your own side so you aren't harassed by shuffling. The last move slot is a tough choice. You can go SR for guaranteed damage against everything, Spikes for added damage against grounded Pokemon, or Taunt to prevent things from laying hazards or shuffling you (Dragon Tail excluded).
The main item I chose is Leftovers because you can really take advantage of the shuffling turns and heal yourself back up. It helps alleviate the loss of Roost on this set.
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Where has this meta gone? anyways, has anyone considered RP M-metagross? he'll have ample opportunity to set up with his bulk, even with phasing everywhere.
RIP Talonflame.
But LopunnyMega isn't as good as it seems. Focus Punch has ONE drawback... it has to be faster to work. I know, what outspeeds Mega Bunny? But Lopunny has a lame 105 speed on first turn. In standard, it bypasses this with Fake Out. But since it lack priority, on the first turn it uses F.Punch, anything that outspeeds Jolly 105 speed will get a free turn. 110 BS is the standard of offence, so gives MANY Pokes on Offence free turns. If it opts for Return, thanks to its lame defences, probably take a significantly high amount of damage, if not killing it. It rocks if it forces out the opponent or outspeeds it. But will have a hard time to Mega evolve. At least its not like Beedrill and Diancie, who NEEDS protect to Mega Evolve.
But LopunnyMega isn't as good as it seems. Focus Punch has ONE drawback... it has to be faster to work. I know, what outspeeds Mega Bunny? But Lopunny has a lame 105 speed on first turn. In standard, it bypasses this with Fake Out. But since it lack priority, on the first turn it uses F.Punch, anything that outspeeds Jolly 105 speed will get a free turn. 110 BS is the standard of offence, so gives MANY Pokes on Offence free turns. If it opts for Return, thanks to its lame defences, probably take a significantly high amount of damage, if not killing it. It rocks if it forces out the opponent or outspeeds it. But will have a hard time to Mega evolve. At least its not like Beedrill and Diancie, who NEEDS protect to Mega Evolve.