Gen 2 Spikeless houndoom

[rowrowie]

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Snorlax is the only pokemon on my team that is a common lead except for zapdos which I don't need to lead as the only reason for it to lead on my team would be for a better matchup against spike leads which I don't think I need. Rest talk is so it doesn't lose to status leads and return + curse is to allow it to act as a sweeper.

Houndoom @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Roar
Houndoom's crunch and pursuit allow it to trap ghosts and psychics that aren't starmie. Houndoom can get a free switch into them after snorlax takes their status. Taking care of those pokemon leaves only Zapdos that snorlax needs to wall. Roar forces houndoom weak pokemon in. Fire blast is for steels.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Substitute
I don't need psychic on starmie because houndoom is supposed to take care of gengar so I am left with surf. Recover allows it to spin more often. I put sub in the last slot to block status/ giga drain/ zapdos thunders. I recognize running starmie means I'm not running a spiker but that also makes opposing starmie less threatening as most of its purpose is to spin.

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
I originally had Machamp on here as a Curse sweeper but I never found many opportunities to set up a curse so I just made it four attacks. Cross Chop is stab, rock slide is mostly for zapdos, hb bug was for exeggutor and eq is for gengar and when I don't want to rely on cross chop accuracy. I don't need hp ghost because I have houndoom though I could see dropping eq for fire blast.

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Roar
- Explosion
I added steelix as a snorlax answer. I already had starmie so i didn't need golem, I don't think skarmory, umbreon, or miltank fits on this team, houndoom doesn't replace ttar but I don't really wanted it. Eq is for damage, Roar is to remove snorlax, Curse is for other physical attackers and explosion is to kill something with low health.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

My zapdos is pretty standard. I chose hp ice over hp water because I already had starmie. Since zapdos is my only electric I chose to run thunder over thunderbolt. I didn't use Whirlwind because no spikes. No t wave because no one on my team benefits that much from para support that I need to dedicate a slot to it.

 

[wafflle]

I'm a relatively new player, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Overall I think this team is decent. Pursuit + Monolax + Champ is a very effective team structure. While I think the team would probably be better with spikes (because spikes are just that good), I'll try and not touch that point to stay true to your team.

My first suggestion would be to change Champ's moveset to curse, cross chop, rock slide, and hp bug. You mention curse not being necessary, but without it champ is going to have a really tough time beating Zapdos. Hp bug is for starmie, because without spikes, the opponent has little reason to bring it out and will probably keep it fresh to check Machamp, so you're going to want to smack it hard on the outset.

Next, I'd consider using twave starmie and maybe even body slam on lax. You say nothing on your team appreciates paralysis, but machamp actually really likes paralysis to outspeed and sometimes even fish for paraflinches, so para support could legitimately make a big difference in beating tough pokemon like skarm/zapdos.

Finally, with steelix on your team, you may be able to run a more aggressive snorlax set like curse lovely kiss. Steelix affords you some nice defense against electrics, so you can afford to make lax more offensive. You'd be weaker to jynx, but you have houndoom for jynx anyway. If you do opt to go that route, I'd consider miracle berry on houndoom to improve that matchup.

 

[Siatam]

Spikes-less offense is a difficult style to use in GSC. The maxed EV system and ubiquitous Leftovers make it very difficult to get any damage to stick to the opponent. Spikes is crucial for most teams in order to mitigate two turns of Leftovers whenever the opponent switches in. A typical defensive interaction in GSC looks like: Wall switches in -> Takes damage from attack -> Gains one turn of lefties -> Attacker switches out -> Wall gains another turn of lefties. Without Spikes you have a really difficult time breaking defensive walls as a free 12.5% healing can easily reduce your net damage output by 50%.

This leaves two strategies spikes-less teams can attempt - build more defensively and use powerful breakers like Belly Drum Snorlax or Swords Dance Marowak to win in drawn out games or play an explosive offense that doesn't give your opponent any room to breathe. Your team doesn't fit cleanly into either category, mons like Houndoom and 4 attack Machamp give a offensive slant, but Rapid Spin Starmie + Return Snorlax make it feel like you are trying to play a longer game. With a spikes-less offense you are at a greater disadvantage the longer the game goes on the changes I will recommend are to help you speed up the pace of your team while retaining the spikes-less aspect.


- Return -> Double Edge
- Curse
- Rest -> Lovely Kiss
- Sleep Talk -> Self-Destruct

Without spikes Sleep Talk Snorlax is a large momentum sink. Sure Curse Snorlax can sweep, but you're going to need to remove the opponent's normal resists. It will be very difficult to slowly chip down mons like Golem, Tyranitar, and Steelix without Spikes support. This Snorlax set aims to be as disruptive as possible, surprisingly the opponent with an unexpected Lovely Kiss early in the game then trading with Self-Destruct.


- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Roar -> Sleep Talk

Roar can be a good strategy to force Pursuit weak mons in. However, without Spikes, Roar more often just gives the opponent free Leftovers recovery when you don't Roar in a Pursuit weak mon. Sleep Talk lets Houndoom absorb sleep from Jynx, Exeggutor, and Gengar which is very useful when the team isn't running Sleep Talk Snorlax.

->

-Thunderbolt​

-Ice Punch​

-Destiny Bond​

-Explosion​

Rapid Spin Starmie is a defensive Pokemon. Anytime you bring it in vs offense teams give your opponent free turns to put the pressure on you. It is unsuitable for a spikes-less offense. Gengar makes a great replacement as a fast offensive threat with great utility in Explosion and Destiny Bond.


- Cross Chop
- Hidden Power [Bug] -> Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake -> Meditate

Four attacks Machamp is a great way to threaten a lot of mons, however the lack of attack boosts can leave Machamp struggling to break through the opponent's team. You name Exeggutor and Gengar as the main reasons for Machamp to use HP Bug and Earthquake. However, I think with Houndoom support it is less important that you have these coverage moves. I've opted to give Machamp Fire Blast to help it muscle past Skarmory and Meditate to give Machamp the option of setting up. Curse is the traditional boosting move on Machamp, but I think Meditate helps the team out since Machamp can no longer be revenge killed by Golem/Steelix Explosion after setting up.
You mentioned having some difficulty setting up with Machamp. Typically Machamp sets up after it switches in on an opponent that it threatens, like a resting Snorlax or normal resist like Golem/Steelix/Tyranitar. While Machamp doesn't always get to opportunity to set up, it really makes an impact when it does making a set-up move well worth the slot in my eyes.

New team paste: https://pokepast.es/5dbf4caf5b403ae0

Good luck on your Spikes-less offense endeavors! It is inherently a difficult team structure and requires very precise play while a single misstep can lose you the game. If you are interested in playing with a similar team that uses Spikes I recommend checking out this previous sample team: https://pokepast.es/7a1e1830fdd531c2.

 

[cherryb0ng]

As things stand I believe that your team is too susceptible to Cloyster.

You simply let it in with too many pokemon, namely Snorlax, Starmie (once they realise you don't pressure Cloyster back all that much, Steelix). Spikesless offense can work but I want to emphasize what Siatam says here.
If you are not going to run spikes you still have to acknowledge that they will and also you are going to fall behind if you are not going to be super aggressive.

Mono snorlax does lend itself to a pursuit user like Houndoom. However, your team is too slow and not threatening enough for an opponent to have to respect you.
All it could really take to get to that level of offensive pressure is giving Snorlax a move like lovely kiss (and perhaps even Earthquake).

4 attacks machamp isn't terrible but it's often not the most desirable thing ever. The way I see it, Machamp only has enough health to be able to choose between 3 correct attacking moves, if you give it a fourth, you're not necessarily benefitting it especially if the target is exeggutor (which speed ties with machamp anyways). So that sort of leaves you without many great options.

Anyways, I didn't give this team too much thought. I hope what little my comment is worth is helpful.

 

[rowrowie]

->

-Thunderbolt​

-Ice Punch​

-Destiny Bond​

-Explosion​

Rapid Spin Starmie is a defensive Pokemon. Anytime you bring it in vs offense teams give your opponent free turns to put the pressure on you. It is unsuitable for a spikes-less offense. Gengar makes a great replacement as a fast offensive threat with great utility in Explosion and Destiny Bond.

Don't Explosion and destiny bond basically do the same thing? Wouldn't hypnosis/ dynamic punch/ theif be better in place of either

 

[BeeOrSomething]

Don't Explosion and destiny bond basically do the same thing? Wouldn't hypnosis/ dynamic punch/ theif be better in place of either

Destiny Bond helps against Curse variants of Snorlax, especially Earthquake and Flamethrower, where Explosion wouldn't be able to KO through the defense boosts. It's also nice for things like Tyranitar and Curse Machamp without relying on "luck" as much like Hypnosis or Dynamic Punch. Explosion is good for instantly eliminating Snorlax that haven't used Curse yet or don't have it as well as taking out something like Raikou or Zapdos, especially if they are sleeping where Destiny Bond is going to be more unreliable.

 

[gabraltar]

Don't Explosion and destiny bond basically do the same thing? Wouldn't hypnosis/ dynamic punch/ theif be better in place of either

there are situations where having both can be really useful. you can choose whether to immediately kill yourself and pivot in another poke in exchange for less damage and having a less likely chance for an ohko or for a guaranteed kill in exchange for the risk of giving your opponent free turns.

Haunter in UU uses both for that reason