Spinblocking in UU

[Snunch]

With some of the most powerful and prominent pokemon in the tier being extremely vulnerable to various types of entry hazards, many matches in UU are decided by the battle between the spinner and the ghost. Pokemon like Kyurem and Victini are much easier to deal with when they lose 25% or more of their health on the switch-in. Spikes are also playing a key role in this metagame, with dangerous spikers like Froslass, Deoxys-D, and Roserade in the tier, and Toxic Spikes are fairly common as well. All of these factors have made Rapid Spin users, particularly Donphan and Hitmontop, extremely common. Ghost-types are needed on many teams to ensure that precious hazards are not spun away. Luckily, there are a number of viable ghosts in UU, but each one has unique pros and cons, and no one ghost can perfectly spinblock. Here is a quick list of viable Ghost-types and the set that makes it unique compared to other Ghost-types in the tier. Note that I haven't used all the ghosts that I'm about to list, so feel free to hype up a set that I havent listed or I dont sound thrilled about.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
- Rest / Protect

Cofagrigus faces stiff competition from Dusclops for the role of bulky ghost. Dusclops has better bulk on the physical and special sides, as well as the valuable Sleep Talk. However, Cofagrigus has access to Haze, providing a win condition for full stall teams. With Suicune and Snorlax in UU, win conditions are more important than ever, making Cofagrigus a decent choice for full stall. Cofagrigus can also go on the offensive with Calm Mind and Nasty Plot. All of these sets are generally done better by Celebi, who has Natural Cure, Perish Song, and better bulk, and better attacking stats to work with, but Celebi can't spinblock. When adding Cofagrigus to your team, deeply consider the possibility that another pokemon could outperform Cofagrigus at the same job.

Dusclops @ Evolite
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Rain Dance
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp

The bulkiest ghost available, Dusclops can threaten Donphan and Hitmontop with a burn, but is set-up fodder for many pokemon and generally wont be able to do much in a typical game. Regardless, Dusclops is extremely hard to break, and with pressure can stall out some powerful attackers. Rain Dance is a viable surprise option because Dusknoir is often bulky enough to take on chlorophyll sweepers and change the weather if Vulpix is dead.

Froslass @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave / Shadow Ball / Destiny Bond / Pain Split

Nearly every Froslass is different these days, the above set is just what I would use if I ever get around to using Froslass. Froslass gets very easy spikes this gen, especially with hail as common as it is. It's a good choice for an offensive team looking for a "suicide" spiker, but you generally cant rely on it actually spinblocking when you need it.

Golurk @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Punch
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

Golurk is an offensive beast, almost always getting a kill when it comes in. It can even check some prominent pokemon such as Heracross and Chansey. Unfortunately, its not great at blocking rapid spin; Donphan can speed creep and beat you one-on-one, hitmontop can use foresight and sponge your attacks with good physical bulk, and Golurk cant switch in to some uncommon spinners such as Blastoise. Despite these shortcomings, Golurk is definitely not a pokemon to avoid.

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt

An immunity to ground makes this an excellent switch into Donphan, though weak physical defense means Mismagius needs to be wary of a Stone Edge or Head Smash. This set also takes advantage of foresight Hitmontop, as every turn that Hitmontop takes to spin hazards is another turn that Mismagius uses to set up for a sweep. Another effective set is Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Shadow Ball / Pain Split, but Mew generally does it better aside from the ability to spinblock. Both sets break stall extremely well.

Spiritomb @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak
- Trick

I really hate Spiritomb and can never get it to do anything worthwhile but I guess this set has some merits so I'll include it. It can't block spin against Hitmontop, Donphan, or any other spinners really except maybe Claydol. On the plus side, it pursuits other ghosts and Espeon reliably, so it does help in the hazard war in some ways. There are other sets that Spiritomb can run such as Mixed and RestTalk, but I've found those to be ineffective as well.

Anyway, how do you block spin? How do you beat spinblockers? What do you spin with? Are maintaining entry hazards worth filling a pokemon slot with an otherwise inferior pokemon? Share your thoughts!

 

[Virizion]

I'd just like to add a tiny little note for Mismagius' case: If their Hitmontop has Sucker Punch (The person I just fought against used one), then you're pretty much dead if you have Nasty Plot + 3 attacks, unless you're really good at mind games.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

most mismagius have only two attacks as shadow ball + hp fighting offer perfect neutral coverage. also, if hitmontop's only method of attack you is sucker punch then you win unless you're being stupid; sucker punch has 8 pp maximum, the hitmontop has to predict your single attack out of all the times you can spam nasty plot even past + 6. statistically, you should win.

 

[Honko]

I used Scarf Mismagius as a sort of offensive spinblocker on my last team. A fast Shadow Ball is invaluable with all the dangerous Psychics running around (I've KOed plenty of Azelf and Scarf Victini who expected to outspeed me), and Trick ruins Chansey, staller Kyurem, Deoxys-D, RestTalk Suicune, and plenty of other beastly things. The only problem is it loses to Donphan, which kind of sucks for a spinblocker. If hazards were essential to my team, I'd probably have to add a sturdier Ghost.

 

[Choice Socks]

you should add cofagrias to the list.

 

[Forsety]

Spinblocking isn't exactly an art form in UU, its far far too easy...the only remotely viable Rapid Spinners in UU are Donphan, Hitmontop and Claydol all of which get raped by your average ghost sets. The only one of them being any problems is Hitmontop who if he packs Foresight couldn't care less.

 

[Gerard]

Dusclops @ Evolite
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Hp
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Pain Split
- Substitute/Shadow Snake/Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp

Really pain split works awesomely in TR, it's "reliable" considering your low HP and high defenses, and it makes the most out of eviolite, night shade is for reliable damage, but shadow snake is ok for picking on weekened foes (and is a 2HKO on missy after SR when her Shadow ball will never OHKO) WoW is awesome to deal passive damage and to take pityful damage from any non guts physical attack (heracross megahorn+night slash crit will never be a 2HKO and you get a pain split at about 60% of your health) substitute is for scouting their counter (and possibly wow or pain split safely)

 

[Snunch]

@ Virizion, Poppycock: thats why in general Mismagius should always carry substitute or will-o-wisp (trick works too I guess). Hitmontop are adapting though, and it's rare to see a top with sucker punch as its only way of hitting ghosts.

@ Honko: How does it work compared to other scarfers, aside from the ability to block spin? Is there another reason to use it over, say, Flygon? Is it worth devoting a teamslot to an otherwise inferior pokemon just to block rapid spin?

@ Choice Socks: Why?

@ Foresty: I disagree, spinblocking can be very difficult against good players. No love for Kabutops or Blastoise?

@ Gerard: Seems like a viable trick room supporter, but reminds me too much of Spiritomb if it doesnt have tr. Also, a general rule is to max your HP before maxing a defensive stat. Even with evolite mons, a 252/0 pokemon will take less damage than the same 0/252 mon.

 

[Boarbaque]

Would an Eviolite Frillish be good for UU? it actually has better defenses than Jellicent except for HP with an Eviolite.

 

[Benlisted]

Dusclops is really the only almost sure way to deny a spin - WoW combined with RestTalk denies Donphan and Hitmontop spinning totally. Claydol isn't getting past any spinblocker easily, but Blastoise could threaten if using the somewhat common set with Rain Dance and boosted Surfs..

Frillish may indeed have some merit for this role, but loses RestTalk so is vulnerable to status. Spiritomb can do the same set as Clops but is vulnerable to Foresighted CCs from Hitmontop.

 

[Conflict]

Blastoise can just use Foresight+Rapid Spin....

@Topic: Another viable Spinblocker:

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Will-o-Wisp
- Taunt
- Painsplit
- Perish Song/Healbell

I dont know if Rotom (standard forme) can hold an Eviolite if he can he is quite a good spinblocker too.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Evioliters are screwed by Claydol though, who does have access to that nifty little move called Trick.
Without Eviolite, Dusclops is suddenly a lot less scary.

 

[Jediment]

I don't believe standard Rotom benefits from Eviolite.

The issue with relying on Eviolite users, particularly Evio Dusclops, is that Claydol can Trick it and both Donphan and Kabutops can use Knock Off to render it a lot less useful. Dusclops also has to be wary of switching into a Knock Off from Escavalier or even Deoxys-D.

 

[Stallion]

you should add cofagrias to the list.

Absolutely bulky as fuck (second to Clops), mummy and Haze are the main reasons to run it. A decent CMer too, I've ran it and it was a pretty viable component of my stall team.

 

[scrafty32]

I agree with stallion cofagrigus is bulky as hell however like dusclops he has a very low base hp which gets rid of alot of bulk and in some cases i have found scraftys bulkier but don't get put off cofagrigus is one of the best bolkers in the game and can set up a trick room team perfectly

 

[Forsety]

@ Foresty: I disagree, spinblocking can be very difficult against good players. No love for Kabutops or Blastoise?

Blastoises problem is he is competing with Suicune AND Milotic for a slot on your team as a bulky water, he also doesn't do an awful lot either beyond Rapid Spinning and phazing. The only real reasons to use Blastoise over either Milotic/Suicune are Water Spout and Rapid Spin. Both easily give it a run for bulk/recovery and phazing.

Kabutops also has to deal with how most ghosts have ways of messing it up, Dusknoir/clops burning it, Cofagrigus killing its Swift Swim, Froslass Tbolting and Missy HP Fighting it to hell.

Donphan/Hitmontop at least still retain phenomenal offensive power and priority on top of their bulk and utility which can keep them non-specialized and versatile. Claydol at least still packs that wonderful QuakSlide resist, screens, magic coat, can SR itself, fantastic coverage, other unique support moves and as some have mentioned Trick which can cripple defensive Pokemon.

I dont know if Rotom (standard forme) can hold an Eviolite if he can he is quite a good spinblocker too.

Eviolite doesn't work for him but its still a reasonable choice in itself, I've seen some standard form Rotom's who provided a vital defensive pivot on basis of typing alone and a vast support/utility movepool.

Absolutely bulky as fuck (second to Clops), mummy and Haze are the main reasons to run it. A decent CMer too, I've ran it and it was a pretty viable component of my stall team.

I personally despise teams which run Zoroark and Cofagrigus, those two compliment each other quite well and it can be often easy to mistake one for the other.

 

[Snunch]

I added Cofagrigus to the OP, but I'm not sold on Rotom, Misdreavus, or Frillish. I'd like to see more reasoning for each, in particular Misdreavus as I've seen it used high on the ladder.

 

[panamaxis]

I'd rather use dusknoir than dusclops to be honest, lefties recovery is a way bigger boon than slightly better defenses, especially in a metagame infested with weather (SS and hail being the relevant ones here). Plus you have the option of actually using attacks... (although the lefties benefit is the main factor anyway).

Seems to me like it parallels the situation in OU as to use Chansey or Blissey...

I personally despise teams which run Zoroark and Cofagrigus, those two compliment each other quite well and it can be often easy to mistake one for the other.

Shouldn't leftovers recovery make it easy to distinguish unless they prevent you getting hazards up?

 

[Honko]

@ Honko: How does it work compared to other scarfers, aside from the ability to block spin? Is there another reason to use it over, say, Flygon? Is it worth devoting a teamslot to an otherwise inferior pokemon just to block rapid spin?

Mismagius is completely different from something like Flygon, especially since it gets Trick. Trick ruins all those unbreakable walls people keep complaining about (Chansey, DeoD, Suicune, Dusclops, Kyurem). It's also handy against Shell Pass, although I haven't seen many of those after the initial rush when SDS posted his team. And a fast Shadow Ball is awesome against Victini/Azelf/Mew. Mismagius also has the advantage of being less predictable; if you see a Flygon it's safe to assume it's Choiced, but when Mismagius appears most people are more worried about it setting up a Sub.

Spinblocking wasn't the main draw of Mismagius for me and if you absolutely need to keep hazards up then it probably isn't the best choice, but it's an excellent Pokemon anyway and it can at least make opposing Spinners think twice. On an offensive team where you don't have room for something like Dusclops or Spiritomb, it's a good compromise.

 

[breh]

I'd like to note that Donphan can also ODOR SLEUTH + Rapid Spin, yet nobody seems to know.

Mismagius is by far the most annoying spinblocker, I might add, because it's immune to toxic spikes.

Also, though arguably inferior due to stealth rock weakness, Drifblim doubles as both a baton passer and a spinblocker.

 

[Farewell]

When released, Prankster Sabeleye with Prankster+Recover+Taunt+W-o-w is going to be super annoying!

 

[shrang]

Just a note on the Froslass set in the OP, Pain Split is another good option for that last slot, it lets you single-handedly defeat Donphan (Pain Split him into KO range, then kill him with Ice Beam).

On the topic of Froslass, she can also run the Hail Spiker set (which is quite viable, since Hail is a lot more usable in UU), and it will piss your opponent off even more than Garchomp will. She can also run a Choice Scarf set, being able to outspeed stuff like Victreebel in the sun and revenge kill it with Ice Beam. It can also Trick away the Scarf.

 

[extra]

i run rotom because i feel that having a spinblocker which is immune to spikes / tspikes is handy against other stall teams as otherwise stuff like donphan (and hitmontops if they play well) can wear you down on the switch, also i liked the flying resistance and STAB tbolt. having said that, mismagius is probably better (and hazard immunity should at least be mentioned as a major pro for missy).

i find spinblocking is pretty easy this meta, there are a fuckload of good ghosts who live forever and pretty much every spinner has to run foresight / odor sleuth or have a lot of power else they won't ever remove hazards, and they have to time their spin well or have aroma support or they just get burned and wrecked as they try to repeatedly switch in.

 

[Snunch]

@ Panamaxis: Dusknoir can use attacking moves, but remember that they're still stupidly weak, and he has no good STAB to use. 4/0 Gyarados and Heatran arent usually KOed by ThunderPunch and Earthquake respectively, which, while not relevant to UU, is indicative of Dusknoir's lack of power. Lefties is good, but Evolite is better because their main form of recovery is pain split and rest, unlike Chansey/Blissey who usually Wish/Protect. When Chansey uses Wish/Protect in adverse weather, it only heals ~37% total, whereas adverse weather can help with Pain Split, and Rest dgaf.

@ Breludicolo: Donphan generally doesnt use Odor Sleuth in because it's better off just hitting ghosts hard on the switch. If Dusclops and Cofagrigus rise in popularity, Odor Sleuth might be worth using.

@ hhjj: Prankster Sabeleye will be outclassed by Mew and Mismagius, who offer actual bulk and can use attacks.

@ Shrang: Sure, Pain Split added.

@Extra.: What Rotom set do you run? What, specifically, do you do against Donphan or Hitmontop that carry Stone Edge or Sucker Punch?

 

[Ace Emerald]

@ hhjj: Prankster Sabeleye will be outclassed by Mew and Mismagius, who offer actual bulk and can use attacks.

I think you're underestimating the power of priority. Anyways for a spinblocker, I think a bulkier Spiritomb would do better. With Will-o-wisp, it can counter Donphan and Hitmontop, and be pretty annoying.