FYI: none of the UB's (Including the newer ones) can learn HP Fighting because they always have at least three stats with 31 IV's, so Tyranitar will always hard counter Blacephalon and check Naganadel.
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKOOh, and before "Well, you can just get 3 Nasty Plots and Z-Dragon Heatran away". If you were allowed to get to that point, maybe Heatran isn't the problem; maybe your opponent was the problem.
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 222-261 (57.6 - 67.7%)+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
And before you say "Oh, but Assault Vest" if this thing makes us run sets like Assault Vest Heatran that's not a sign that it's a healthy presence. It's too early to call it broken, of course, but it's still something to watch out for.
That still does 60% to a mon without reliable recovery. And without the SpA investment, it's not KOing back:+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 222-261 (57.6 - 67.7%)
Stop cherry picking EV spreads in an attempt to make a point.
Edit: Assault Vest Heatran is disgusting, so please do not put words in my mouth.
Two Draco Meteors are stronger than two Dragon Pulses, which is generally what it would be using before switching out.One thing I would like to note about Naganadel: If you're gonna use NP + Z-Draco, after consuming your Z-crystal, if you use Draco again, you'll be left at neutral Special Attack. This is fairly harmful for a Nasty Plot sweeper, no? And you boost Speed after Beast Boost, not Special Attack, so you can't compensate for that.
Gunk Shot Ash-Greninja hype has already died. Gunk Shot is piss weak before Battle Bond, and even afterwards it kinda sucks.I'm also expecting Keldeo to surge in usage, because it beats many of the new threats in AV Ttar, Blacephalon, Defog Gliscor and Gunk Shot Ash-Gren (Although it's quite overhyped imo, it's pressed for moveslots on specs sets as is and isn't significantly powerful pre-battle bond)
81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikeswithout the SpA investment, it's not KOing back:
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 210-248 (73.1 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That would imply Heatran was already in before Naganadel sets up. At that point you'd better be off Roaring or using Earth Power.Call me crazy, but couldn’t you run Sub on SpD Heatran with this running around? +2 won’t put you too low to Sub and you force it to either drop 2 stages or blow the z-move if it goes to +4. If it doesn’t NP the you basically have a free Sub to either get off a free hit or maybe Toxic something.
Sorry, I meant you come in on the NP, then Sub as you take the hit, but yeah your point still stands. I don't know, maybe Sub on the set could be nice if you come in and it doesn't set up--i.e, if it's Choiced or just thinks NP is too risky for whatever reason. Hell, I have seen people talking about Naga Draco-ing Heatran to weaken it so maybe running Sub could discourage that? If nothing else Sub + Toxic isn't that bad of a set to begin with.That would imply Heatran was already in before Naganadel sets up. At that point you'd better be off Roaring or using Earth Power.
Yea but if they hit you with a +2 DD, after a Sub you'll be so low you can't check anything (if you're forced to switch). +2 Draco does 38-45, which is pretty hefty, so after Sub that's what, 55% on average or something? Plus, they can always switch out into Toxapex or something.Sorry, I meant you come in on the NP, then Sub as you take the hit, but yeah your point still stands. I don't know, maybe Sub on the set could be nice if you come in and it doesn't set up--i.e, if it's Choiced or just thinks NP is too risky for whatever reason. Hell, I have seen people talking about Naga Draco-ing Heatran to weaken it so maybe running Sub could discourage that? If nothing else Sub + Toxic isn't that bad of a set to begin with.
If they go to pex as SpDef heatran subs, pex loses. It's scald can't break the sub and tran gets a 3hko with no EHs.Yea but if they hit you with a +2 DD, after a Sub you'll be so low you can't check anything (if you're forced to switch). +2 Draco does 38-45, which is pretty hefty, so after Sub that's what, 55% on average or something? Plus, they can always switch out into Toxapex or something.
+2 252 SpA Dragalge Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 222-261 (57.6 - 67.7%)Sorry, I meant you come in on the NP, then Sub as you take the hit, but yeah your point still stands. I don't know, maybe Sub on the set could be nice if you come in and it doesn't set up--i.e, if it's Choiced or just thinks NP is too risky for whatever reason. Hell, I have seen people talking about Naga Draco-ing Heatran to weaken it so maybe running Sub could discourage that? If nothing else Sub + Toxic isn't that bad of a set to begin with.
Nihilego got access to both Knock Off and Magic Coat. Now, these two wouldn't be on the same set, but I can see Knock off being a cool utility move on more offensive sets to get rid of Chansey's Eviolite, while Magic Coat will be pretty cool to see on lead sets. Not sure if these additions would make it any better in OU, though, but I predict it'll get somewhat better in UU thanks to being able to Knock Off whatever items Scizor and Alolan Muk, for instance, are running, as well as Porygon2's Eviolite.Is there any other move tutors that are missing from the OP that are relevant besides stuff getting Defog and such? I'm tired of reading 4 pages about Naga and how we're gonna switch Heatran in to do more than likely nothing in return to make a difference and am more curious if any UU mons or lower to gain some relevance in OU. Too much information to keep track of and maybe someone more in tune can summarize it without all the gas I'm reading.
I would be more than happy to bring in some fresh discussion. All these debates surrounding Naganadel and new Defoggers are getting old.Is there any other move tutors that are missing from the OP that are relevant besides stuff getting Defog and such? I'm tired of reading 4 pages about Naga and how we're gonna switch Heatran in to do more than likely nothing in return to make a difference and am more curious if any UU mons and such gain something to gain some relevance in OU. Too much information to keep track of and maybe someone more in tune can summarize it without all the gas I'm reading.
I believe Amoonguss gets Stomping Tantrum, letting it lure and kill Heatran more effectively than HP Ground could.Is there any other move tutors that are missing from the OP that are relevant besides stuff getting Defog and such? I'm tired of reading 4 pages about Naga and how we're gonna switch Heatran in to do more than likely nothing in return to make a difference and am more curious if any UU mons or lower to gain some relevance in OU. Too much information to keep track of and maybe someone more in tune can summarize it without all the gas I'm reading.
Just a note, the Latis, Kartana, and Terrak do not revenge kill since, once it gets said kill, it gets a speed boost.The z-set will be nasty, granted... but we now have a ton of fast scarfers who can revenge. Greninja, Latis, kartana with some chip, terrakion... To name but a few. Mamo and weavile will rise in popularity, as will banded zygarde and other strong priority Mons. I can also see eject button toxapex making a return, together with band tar to pursuit trap. It'll be good for sure, but it's no mega blaze/Luke, or Mence.