Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)

[Some random freak]

Falinks @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt

I've been having a lot of fun with this set and it's my current go to Dynamax abuser. No Retreat boosting all stats is great but when combined with Dynamaxing it can get even crazier. Max Knuckle gives it another boost to its attack while Max Steelspike boosts its defence even higher. Its coverage is great in dealing with Ferro + Clef + Pex that's very common on the ladder right now. Defiant is a good ability to have with Strength Sap being as common as it is and it also helps against webs and intimidate. Overall an underrated mon but understandably so given some of the Dynamax abusers currently in the tier.

 

[Colonel M]

Has this been tested in game?

Clangorous Scales is a Sound-based move so there's that for backup.

Clangorous Soul is listed as a Sound move as well, so don't see why this wouldn't activate.

(I believe some people reported the move failing if you have Soundproof Kommo-o, but that might be ladder specific and implemented incorrectly).

 

[ABR]

Hey, so I started laddering yesterday and am currently #1 on the new ladder.

This is the team I've exclusively used: https://pokepast.es/8fdcd38c2833fc50

I wanted to build around this Grimmsnarl set because the concept of resttalk prankster + bulk up + a physical stab that weakens special attack was way too enticing. Gothitelle is a perfect partner because it traps all the normal answers like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, and Clefable if needed. It is also broken (IMO) and is the easiest way to dismantle opposing bulky teams. For the opposite side of the spectrum, Ditto seemed almost essential to deal with all the stat boosting dynamax mons and it has been very successful at doing so. Being able to flexibly choose to keep scarf or counter-sweep with your own dynamaxing makes Ditto super potent in general. The defensive trio of Toxapex, Hippowdon, and Corviknight is fairly straight forward but basically Toxapex is a water / ice / fire resist with general regen goodness, Corviknight defogs and uturns out vs setup mons into Ditto, and Hippo provides elec immunity + stealth rock setting. The toughest matchups are those where Goth is needed for multiple pokemon but that isn't too frequent and overall the team has been very successful.

I said it briefly above but Gothitelle (Shadow Tag) seems absurdly broken right now. Compared to past gens where it was already banned it has received the following buffs: 1) pursuit is gone; 2) no megas and/or z-moves to prevent trick; 3) access to cosmic power and stored power. All these factors allow for frequent tricking and getting the scarf back to just do more damage later, and there isn't really much to stop it. I am hoping we can get this out of the metagame soon to start looking at dynamax and such with a closer eye in a more isolated setting.

I hope everyone is enjoying the metagame regardless though. Despite the early gen flaws it is still always fun to explore a new frontier and I look forward to seeing what develops over the coming weeks, months, and years.

 

[Cuddly]

So is Sleep Clause really gone or just being discussed?
I personally think if people want to make it accurate to cartridge play, make it so you can’t use sleep moves until the Pokemon you put to sleep is awake or fainted. That is if Sleep Clause is being reworked/removed. Hopefully not since Gengar still knows Hypnosis.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I said it briefly above but Gothitelle (Shadow Tag) seems absurdly broken right now. Compared to past gens where it was already banned it has received the following buffs: 1) pursuit is gone; 2) no megas and/or z-moves to prevent trick; 3) access to cosmic power and stored power. All these factors allow for frequent tricking and getting the scarf back to just do more damage later, and there isn't really much to stop it. I am hoping we can get this out of the metagame soon to start looking at dynamax and such with a closer eye in a more isolated setting.

I think the precedence of Shadow Tag (and Arena Trap) being uncompetitive has already been established in previous generations. Understandably, the metagame is still in beta, but what's stopping TLs from pulling the trigger on Shadow Tag and Arena Trap now rather than later given precedence in previous generations?

 

[Phillyrider807]

Are we still getting "National OU"?

 

[ABR]

I think the precedence of Shadow Tag (and Arena Trap) being uncompetitive has already been established in previous generations. Understandably, the metagame is still in beta, but what's stopping TLs from pulling the trigger on Shadow Tag and Arena Trap now rather than later given precedence in previous generations?

I'm personally fully ready to get rid of Shadow Tag and will work on getting it out of the way as soon as I can. As for Arena Trap, I don't think it is near the same level of potency and is too hard to map out its specific impact until the other factors surrounding it are sorted more. It's a new gen and I don't want to jump the gun merely based on past metagames.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Are we still getting "National OU"?

Ye. It'll come eventually dw

And just so this isn't a one-liner, I fully support the motion to quickban Shadow Tag. I get we're still in beta but c'mon, it's been well-established at this point across multiple generations that Gothitelle and Wobbuffet are stupid and bad. The former in particular got some jank new moves, and is just generally capable of invalidating so much off of one or two misplays. That said, I agree with ABR to let Duggy live a little bit. From speculatory and current experience, he really isn't that bad in this super offensive meta courtesy of Dynamax.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

I'm personally fully ready to get rid of Shadow Tag and will work on getting it out of the way as soon as I can. As for Arena Trap, I don't think it is near the same level of potency and is too hard to map out its specific impact until the other factors surrounding it are sorted more. It's a new gen and I don't want to jump the gun merely based on past metagames.

I don't see a problem with Shadow Tag. It allows the user to not have to worry about the opponent switchspamming, and helps secure a well-needed takedown on an otherwise insurmountable foe. It helps you in case you didn't specifically prepare for a situation but know that you can win with just one of their pokemon gone.
Side note: I dont get the focus on switching. It more often than not either leads to unfavorable situations or is used to stall the opponent, because in this generation no one is busy using entry hazards. Yes hazards suck ass, but in an offensive meta where you have to be prepared, wasting a turn when you could be swept like a broom is no laughing matter.

 

[wafflecone67]

Ye. It'll come eventually dw

And just so this isn't a one-liner, I fully support the motion to quickban Shadow Tag. I get we're still in beta but c'mon, it's been well-established at this point across multiple generations that Gothitelle and Wobbuffet are stupid and bad. The former in particular got some jank new moves, and is just generally capable of invalidating so much off of one or two misplays. That said, I agree with ABR to let Duggy live a little bit. From speculatory and current experience, he really isn't that bad in this super offensive meta courtesy of Dynamax.

I agree somewhat (shadow tag needs to go)but I feel as though we should be looking at the dynamaxing mechanic as a whole and determining whether we want it in general before we decide on any mon bans. Smogon has always worked on a constructive ruleset we make the game more competitive. But we need to look deep and find what skillset do we want to promote? The moves we have made thus far have been done to preserve the prominence of skill while limiting victories based on luck or strategies that lack counterplay(Baton pass). What skills does dynamaxing promote exactly? IT promotes usage at the right time but a lot of the mons are completely broken with dynamaxing. There is suprise factor that is worse than z moves and there is virtually no opportunity cost. Look at Gryados who with the mechanic can straight up blow through so many of its would be counters with its great coverage. The current tier reminds me of gen 7 ubers where the true game is knowing when to place your geomancy xerneas(maxed Gyrados) and win the game.

This is for you ABR I feel as though while we go for accuracy we should admit that the mechanics of the game are inherently flawed and shouldn't be the reason to drag down meta enjoyment.

I don't see a problem with Shadow Tag. It allows the user to not have to worry about the opponent switchspamming, and helps secure a well-needed takedown on an otherwise insurmountable foe. It helps you in case you didn't specifically prepare for a situation but know that you can win with just one of their pokemon gone.
Side note: I dont get the focus on switching. It more often than not either leads to unfavorable situations or is used to stall the opponent, because in this generation no one is busy using entry hazards. Yes hazards suck ass, but in an offensive meta where you have to be prepared, wasting a turn when you could be swept like a broom is no laughing matter.

Shadow tag, for now, has only gotten a kick in the teeth due to the smaller focus on defensive pivots. In any other circumstance, it would be broken and it has little counterplay. For instance if clefable gets trapped by gothetelle goth can trick a choice scarf and set up with cosmic power and there is nothing you can do about it.

IP edit: merged double post

 

[Marigold]

Thoughts on Banworthy Things

Shadow Tag is unhealthy by established precendent and doesn't have a reason to stay in the metagame. In English: kill it with fire

If it isn't quickbanned, Arena Trap will most likely go through the same cycle of unhealthiness as it did in SM, so I don't understand the sentiment to keep it for now. It will significantly reduce the number of viable stallbreakers or decrease their overall power, force the same stallbreakers and walls to run shed shell (remember shed shell Lele and Pex?), and be paired with tech that still exists such as Eject Button to trap problematic threats even more easily, and just generally wrap the metagame around its stupid little 3 heads. Not to mention, it can Dynamax now to get some more immediate kills akin to Groundium/Band Duggy from past gens. Seriously, why keep this? We all know what this does to the metagame and have gone through literally every argument possible surrounding this three-headed cancer. Pull up the SM Arena Trap suspect threads, replace groundium with dynamax in your browser, and it sums up how Arena Trap will play out in SwSh OU. In English: it's still aids. kill it with fire

Dynamax is undeniably a stupidly powerful mechanic that really doesn't have any positive sentiments surrounding it. It either outright invalidates or significantly narrows down the versatility and viability of the typically most popular archetypes in Bulky Offense and Balance. It forces weird gimmicks on every team. It has a lot of uncompetitive and overcentralizing properties, such as punishing scouting with successive boosts (an integral aspect of dealing with sweepers and wallbreakers) or forcing the same poorly-splashable gimmicks onto every team just to stand a chance vs these sweepers. It boils down the metagame to Rain, Sand, Screens, Stall, and recycled versions of the few viable defensive cores on Balance. I haven't seen a single good reason to desire this mechanic in competitive gameplay, but rather arguments stating how it is bearable. When arguments are made towards how something is bearable in a metagame as opposed to healthily contributing, it's how you end up with a "broken checks broken" game and it has demonstrated to be unenjoyable, matchup-heavy, and stale. This complacency towards power creep is how we ended up with policy threads about the general discontent among all levels of competitive SM play, and I sincerely hope that balancing in this generation is more proactive as opposed to the "let's allow a threat to destroy the metagame and THEN maaaaybe suspect it" cycle that gen 7 repeatedly went through.

Of course, I'm not here to just talk about what's blatantly busted. Here's some tech that I've been running on my offensive teams to deal with Dynamax outside of Ditto spam.

Magic Sash Reuniclus

Reuniclus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Endeavor

While Ditto may aim to abuse setup, Reuniclus turns it against them while also wearing down foes into a measly 1 hp for another abuser. I wish Explosion remained in its movepool to give teammates a free turn but alas... I've been using this on my rain team to deal with Dmax setup a lot more reliably than just swift swimmers, as the added bulk of Dmax can make the most notable abusers like Gyarados can even make that strategy unreliable. This set is really good on heavily offensive teams that don't want to lock into a scarfed Ditto, or want to enable a slow abuser to create an OTR core.

My personal favourite partner for this set has been Banded Crawdaunt in rain. Crawdaunt isn't solely reliant on TR and has good matchups vs Ferro/Pex/Corsola as well as stall, but can abuse the TR from Reuniclus to suddenly claim some souls more easily against opposing offense.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

Shadow tag, for now, has only gotten a kick in the teeth due to the smaller focus on defensive pivots. In any other circumstance, it would be broken and it has little counterplay. For instance if clefable gets trapped by gothetelle goth can trick a choice scarf and set up with cosmic power and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yeah. Setting up on an unaware pokemon. Real smart. Hell, none of the sets so far for gothitelle have cosmic power as a recommended move.
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gothitelle: 67-79 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
It ain't much, but its honest work on a supposed pp staller/tricker, which, given how you said it sets up, would have less investments

 

[Kevin Melonslice]

Yeah. Setting up on an unaware pokemon. Real smart. Hell, none of the sets so far for gothitelle have cosmic power as a recommended move.
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gothitelle: 67-79 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
It ain't much, but its honest work on a supposed pp staller/tricker, which, given how you said it sets up, would have less investments

0 SpA Gothitelle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming +6 in both defenses. Also your idea that a 6HKO beats a Pokemon with Rest is comical lol. Cosmic and Stored Power are new movepool additions this gen which is why none of the sets have it as a recommended move

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

0 SpA Gothitelle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming +6 in both defenses. Also your idea that a 6HKO beats a Pokemon with Rest is comical lol. Cosmic and Stored Power are new movepool additions this gen which is why none of the sets have it as a recommended move

fair, i suppose. Well, that begs the question of "did i already dynamax or not", because if I did, then shit, I'm outta options for what is, in this (SS) generation, dead meat. It is a slow, bulky pokemon in an offensive meta. The only thing its stopping is the occasional dark type.
On the other hand, if I didn't dynamax yet, then I have 3 turns to hopefully tip the scales. That 2hko turned into a 3hko, and with my removal of the scarf's limiting factor, that means I can recover most of the damage (i haven't really looked into dynamax moves, is there a recovery one?), and will hit harder (will i?).
In short, dynamax offers a unique way out of scenarios that are otherwise kaput, just like shadow tag.
P.S.: keep them both

 

[Cuddly]

While I wait for my previous question go be answered;
Darmanitan-Galar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Zen Mode
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Ice Punch/Icicle Crash
- Fire Punch
Sub Belly Drum Darmanitan is a beast and underrated. With how popular Gorilla Tactics is now, and the extreme damage Darmanitan deals, it is very easy to have your opponent switch. At +6, Darm-Z-G’s Atk reached over 1500 Atk. With the Salac boost and its 135 Speed, Darmanitan outspeeds so much of the metagame that the only priority has a chance to go first.
Even with the low BP of the Elemental Punch moves, Darmanitan-G after a Belly Drum gives every defensive Pokemon trouble, even Quagsire, which needs to be at full health or needs to sack a teammate to stop Darm.
The obvious downside is that Ditto can quickly counter sweep you and 25% health means you are dead. It is also very weak to every fast teams since its initial speed is very low.
But if you are not finding those problems, then it is a very easy sweep.

 

[wafflecone67]

fair, i suppose. Well, that begs the question of "did i already dynamax or not", because if I did, then shit, I'm outta options for what is, in this (SS) generation, dead meat. It is a slow, bulky pokemon in an offensive meta. The only thing its stopping is the occasional dark type.
On the other hand, if I didn't dynamax yet, then I have 3 turns to hopefully tip the scales. That 2hko turned into a 3hko, and with my removal of the scarf's limiting factor, that means I can recover most of the damage (i haven't really looked into dynamax moves, is there a recovery one?), and will hit harder (will i?).
In short, dynamax offers a unique way out of scenarios that are otherwise kaput, just like shadow tag.
P.S.: keep them both

But then you just turn the meta into a broken checks broken metagame. Pokemon should be about team building and skill not "Oh crap did I use my dynamax?" Or getting your dynamax in the right position to blow through a team. Sweeping is less earned than even in 7th gen. You can already see how the meta has been warped around it.

 

[1234hjkl]

0 SpA Gothitelle Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming +6 in both defenses. Also your idea that a 6HKO beats a Pokemon with Rest is comical lol. Cosmic and Stored Power are new movepool additions this gen which is why none of the sets have it as a recommended move

Your calcs are moot when clefable can just dynamax drop a max starfall and proceed to kill you before you have enough enough boosts to kill it or the misty field is off. I see a lot of people jumping the gun with trapping especially the ST ones when all those except duggy make your team a 5x6. Wobb is fucking one dimensional and easy to take advantage and no berry this time for priority destiny bond and if dynamax ignores encore you're screwed, gothitelle is a shitmon with or without ST, it can only come on some of the most passive mons without a risk of 1 or 2HKO and even then those mons might have a shed shell or just dynamax and fuck it over. People are still treating those mons as they are from a Gen 6, we need time to see how things develop, at this moment I think DMax is might be the real thing to look over, this thing might be too much and should be the priority.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

But then you just turn the meta into a broken checks broken metagame. Pokemon should be about team building and skill not "Oh crap did I use my dynamax?" Or getting your dynamax in the right position to blow through a team. Sweeping is less earned than even in 7th gen. You can already see how the meta has been warped around it.

There is no "earning" when it comes to sweeping. You either pull it off, or you don't. The opponent isn't twiddling their thumbs as you stack up boosts, for they are most likely either doing the same to counter you, or preparing for you to slip up.

Pokemon should be about team building and skill

If it weren't for the inclusion of skill, I'd be inclined to think you were deficient in all capacities. The pokemon you choose, and their movesets, have little bearing on whether or not you'll win, because if you don't have skill, you couldn't win even if you copied the #1 player's team.

I ask, how has the meta been warped? People have seen a strong candidate for their teams, and have taken it. It is not dissimilar to landorus. Furthermore, people have noticed that this prominent force isn't airtight, and in fact has weaknesses. They have exploited them, and thus are evolving the metagame.
I must ask, how is shit broken here? I see strong candidates, and strong counter-options. Furthermore, people are free to experiment, and without that ability to experiment on what works against a main threat of the day, there wont be much meta progress.

 

[wafflecone67]

There is no "earning" when it comes to sweeping. You either pull it off, or you don't. The opponent isn't twiddling their thumbs as you stack up boosts, for they are most likely either doing the same to counter you, or preparing for you to slip up.

Back then sweeping actually took skill and time making the conditions just right. Now we had OP Z moves and pokemon that straight up punished the very foundation of competitive pokemon. Scouting. Maybe it was worded awkwardly but it's so easy to sweep in this gen I mean look at the mess that is gyrados.

I ask, how has the meta been warped? People have seen a strong candidate for their teams, and have taken it. It is not dissimilar to landorus. Furthermore, people have noticed that this prominent force isn't airtight, and in fact has weaknesses. They have exploited them, and thus are evolving the metagame.
I must ask, how is shit broken here? I see strong candidates, and strong counter-options. Furthermore, people are free to experiment, and without that ability to experiment on what works against a main threat of the day, there wont be much meta progress.

Landorus was a glue mon major difference. Lando would almost never pull off a sweep on its own and it was so easy to blanket check. The reason why people used lando is not because of sweeping potential but because it was a godsend for balance. Gyra is not whatsoever. Power whip destroys quagsire, EQ deletes pex, waterfall and crunch can dominate nearly everything else. You have weather and terrain making it much much worse. Every mon has a weakness. The problem is that you don't just have one pokemon when you play you have a full team of 6 which can assist gyra and making the matchup more difficult. Gyra does too much on its own. As for your last quote there are too many options so its impossible to cover them all. The meta will become a matchup meta just like in gen 7. Too much variation is a bad thing. I encourage experimentation as much as the next guy but when the mechanic forces us to re evaluate what a check or counter is then we know its not fit for this meta.

 

[Cujo445]

While I wait for my previous question go be answered;
Darmanitan-Galar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Zen Mode
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Ice Punch/Icicle Crash
- Fire Punch
Sub Belly Drum Darmanitan is a beast and underrated. With how popular Gorilla Tactics is now, and the extreme damage Darmanitan deals, it is very easy to have your opponent switch. At +6, Darm-Z-G’s Atk reached over 1500 Atk. With the Salac boost and its 135 Speed, Darmanitan outspeeds so much of the metagame that the only priority has a chance to go first.
Even with the low BP of the Elemental Punch moves, Darmanitan-G after a Belly Drum gives every defensive Pokemon trouble, even Quagsire, which needs to be at full health or needs to sack a teammate to stop Darm.
The obvious downside is that Ditto can quickly counter sweep you and 25% health means you are dead. It is also very weak to every fast teams since its initial speed is very low.
But if you are not finding those problems, then it is a very easy sweep.

Easily one of the best mons right now! If you manage to get a sub and belly drum, you can usually dynamax to win the game. I honestly think Darm could be a potential suspect to look into in the future, due to it having two insanely good abilities both allowing it to do completely different things to plot through teams.

On a side note, I think if you’re running specs on Dragapult, it’s worth running infiltrator just so you can hit this Darm behind a sub.

 

[Kamen Galaxy]

Too much variation is a bad thing

I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you implying that having many choices leads to unhealthy metas? That's just absurd. Just last gen, the meta was mostly vibrant, with new strategies being used often. Now, there were some pokemon that were unjustly banned (looking at the snake), but in all, I'd rate SM at 8/10, mostly because toxapex was a fucking stally nuisance, but it could be overcome.

but when the mechanic forces us to re evaluate what a check or counter is then we know its not fit for this meta.

So, change bad, game make us work different.
I can tell you aren't taking this seriously, but I'll entertain you still.

As for your last quote there are too many options so its impossible to cover them all

I acknowledge one won't be able to cover literally everything. But, that shouldn't mean you detract from the meta, nor does it mean that you and/or the meta are flawed. It means that you won't win all the time with one team. Variance is necessary, and if all you do is stick to one popular team, then everyone will adapt and defeat you. You can't cover them all, so only cover the ones that are most likely to threaten you currently.

Back then sweeping actually took skill and time making the conditions just right. Now we had OP Z moves and pokemon that straight up punished the very foundation of competitive pokemon. Scouting. Maybe it was worded awkwardly but it's so easy to sweep in this gen

Back then tauros just hyper beamed your ass if you didnt know what was good, and even then, you got beamed. And in gen 2, were there even any sweeps?
Z moves are bursts that can be used to eliminate a key part of the opponent, but they were also single use, just as dynamax is now.
Is it alright if i just overlook the "scouting" in your reply? I dont think you meant it to be in there.
And what was the foundation of competitive pokemon? It couldn't be the players, for anyone can develop skill if they practice and learn. It couldn't be the pre-battle looksie you get in the new games, because the older games didn't have that. It might just be the pokemon and how they fare against each other.

 

[Crossfiyah]

^ Somebody come get this man.

A meta can absolutely have too many threats to be healthy. The more threats there are, the more it becomes about match-ups and games become determined at the team preview screen. The number one complaint about Gen 7 is it was too match-up dependent to properly reflect skill.

 

[Cuddly]

Z moves are bursts that can be used to eliminate a key part of the opponent, but they were also single use, just as dynamax is now.

What are you talking about? With Dynamaxing, you get 3 consecutive turns of super buffed Z moves.
In fact, the whole concept of Dynamax is just Z moves but better in nearly every way.
The only scenarios that Dynamaxing is “weaker” than Z-moves are it’s Knock Off “Weakness” and slightly less BP, the former being in quotes since Dynamax Pokemon can hold what ever items they desire and the latter being so slight that it doesn’t matter even without item boosts since you have 3 turns of doing so much damage, on top of the broken secondary affects that give Starter Eevee a run for its money.
By the time you are finished Dynamaxing, you would killed or severally weakened the opponent’s team from the sheer raw power alone for 3 turns.
But it doesn’t end there either.
You can summon Rain, Sun, Sand, Hail, Terrains, and increase your stats to snowball your sweeper as it kills the key threats of your opponent.
Oh, and it gets worse.
With Dynamaxing not being an item, not only do you not have to worry about losing your Dynamax user (something you would with Z-moves), but you can pick they Dynamax that best suits fighting the opponent’s team. With Z-moves, if your user was weak to the opponent’s team, you didn’t have much use for them. With Dynamaxing, you can Dynamax at any second for when it best fits the situation.
And there is even more to that.
With Z-moves, you had Grassium, Firium, Darkium, ect. which limited what you could use for coverage.
Take Gyarados for example.
In USUM, it used Bounce as 1 time coverage against (most) bulky waters and bulky grasses.
In SWSH, combined with Power Whip, it has 3 turns to kill everything.
It kills Rotom-Wash with Max Overgrowth, it kills the Bulky Grasses with Max Airstream while increasing speed, and Max Geyer everything elss.
The 3 turns of carnage with full coverage is even harder to deal with since you absolutely can’t bait Gyarados into wasting its Dynamax like you could with Z-moves due to Max Airstream and Moxie, and you need 4 back-ups to just hope you don’t get swept and that 4 back-up is typically Ditto since Gyarados (or anything Dynamaxing in general) would have gained so many stat boosts from the massacre.

Oh, and then you have to deal with the rest of the while half your team is crippled or fainted.

Please, never compare Dynamax to Z-moves while implying they are equally balanced, when Dynamaxing is clearly stronger.

 

[Empress Mobile]

The only possible argument I can see for Arena Trap is that it enables stall in this HO metagame. But ultimately that's just restricting teambuilding further and keeping one cheese strategy in check with another cheese strategy (Pex + Thorn + Corsola + trapper is cancer)

Edit: I also have to nod to the absurdity of comparing Z moves to Dynamax. An incorrect prediction on your Z move means it's wasted. Dynamax is more forgiving as you have 3 turns to make work of your opponent's team.

 

[Gross Sweep]

Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave / Substitute​

I am making this post, my first post with regards to SS OU, about none other than Rotom-Heat. When I initially heard that the Rotoms were losing Pain Split I thought they were not going to be good enough to hang in OU, and when I say "they" I mean Rotom-W. However, that could not have been further from the truth. I have heard good things about scarf Rotom-W, but that's not the set I would like to talk about in this post. The 8th generation has given Rotom access to Nasty Plot, which it puts to great use. After playing a couple games on the ladder I started to notice the common trend that is Ferrothorn, Toxapex, and Hippowdon mixed in with the occasional Corviknight, Clefable, Aegislash, and Galarian Corsola. I started thinking about what can deal with all of these things if anything. I started looking for Fire types since 3 of mons I listed were Steel-types, when I came across Rotom-H. It was a strong fire type with access to Stab Electric-type moves that can pressure Toxapex. Volt Switch can be substituted with Thunderbolt if preferred but with Goth running around, the momentum that comes with Volt Switch, and the ability to Dynamax if necessary I feel Volt Switch is the slightly better option. Aside from great dual stab options to hit some of the prominent defensive mons in the meta Rotom-H also has access to a strong boosting move in Nasty Plot that allows it to hit mons like Hippowdon for big chunks of damage. I am still undecided on the 4th move at the moment, as you can tell by the slashes. Either status option is fine, and Substitute helps against Ditto. I also want to say that while I like Leftovers for the passive recovery, it's probably worth testing the new boots item as well since preventing rocks damage is nice for a mon that takes 1/4th damage on switch. Overall this thing is a solid breaker in the meta right now, I wouldn't rely on it to fully break stall, but it's still pretty powerful. I'll throw in some calcs that show what this thing can do at +2. Wont include any Dynamax calcs right now, since I honestly don't know the base powers, but just remember that when push comes to shove Rotom-H can secure the OHKO against pretty much all these mons with that mechanic.

CALCS

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Ferrothorn: 964-1140 (273.8 - 323.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Blade: 792-932 (244.4 - 287.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 830-978 (207.5 - 244.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 446-528 (111.5 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 177-208 (75 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Hippowdon: 399-471 (95 - 112.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 397-468 (100.7 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO​