You're right, it does. So can't use Tera Grass GK to get past Rotom-W, but it's still a less restricting coverage move than Tera Blast overall.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
SV UU Metagame Discussion - Teal Mask Edition
- Thread starter Lily
- Start date
- Status
Just in case you don't know, Terastalization does not remove your original STABs.
Terastalization gives STAB to the Tera Type in addition to your original STABs, and if you Tera'd into a type you already had, you get "double STAB" for a 2x boost instead of a 1.5x boost.
Adaptability notably does stop working for your original STABs if you Tera into a different type, so perhaps that's the source of confusion? (unless i misread you and you were actually just referring to the opportunity cost of not doing an offensive tera instead, in which case woops, don't mind me
)
Did not know this. Well... nevermind. Terachomp has no offensive drawback from a defensive tera.
It's been like that the whole time!?!?
Yup
Yup. Does that change your opinion on Garchomp in this tier?
(i have no opinion myself as I haven't been able to get myself to actually play competitive pokemans for years)
EDIT: slain by a ninja
It changes my opinion on how fair a trade forcing Tera is. On the one hand it's always forced to Tera else get hit by 4x effective revenge move. On the other, it loses nothing by doing this, and in fact gains more offensive power in a 3rd STAB move.
I stand by sand-shark to the end, it is US who has to adapt. Let Garchomp cleave us in two so that we might be made anew, unto a stronger UU. A UU that can weather the eventual storm of DLC2: Electric Boogaloo
Not much from what ive played, its just good for knock off, uturn, flower trick, and play rough. Scarf is better than band just so you outspeed a lot, but other mixed sets exist as well! Only real issue ive come across is +2 ice shard weavile will okhko it (havent ran the full calc yet)
Choice Scarf Meowscarada is one of the best revenge killer due to its speed tier. Of course, priorities are effective too in the tier but sometimes it's not enough (especially vs threats such as Garchomp or Kommo-o after a boost in speed due to their great bulk). Meowscarada can threaten them with Protean Play Rough which is quite great. You need to play around potential Tera but if you're opponent already used it on another Pokémon it's a free KO for Meowscarada. It acts as a good pivot too overall but yeah, being able to revenge kill +1 speed threats such as Garchomp, Kommo-o or Quaquaval is kinda great. Jolly variants can even outspeed some Swift Swim users, +2 Adamant Ceruledge or +1 Ogerpon which is also great.
Ban Hands, Kommo, and Chomp. Then immediately suspect Garg (think it should be banned but realistically won’t happen right away - at least during a suspect everyone can see if it’s truly dumb). Tier should be fine afterwards. You’re never going to have a perfect tier just gotta deal with what’s here and play with it so long as it’s not totally overbearing.
I've been having a lot of fun piloting 
in this meta. It sits in Garchomp's shadow for a whole host of reasons (frailer, significantly worse base defensive typing, can't boost its attack, worse hazard setter, etc. etc. etc.), but when you're blessed with the offensive holy grail that is Ground/Ice STAB, you can still Do Some Stuff.
Two sets I've played around with are Loaded Dice and AoA with Trail Blaze + Tera Grass.
Mamoswine @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Water / Flying / ???
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
This is the less optimal set for sure, but very few `mons get the combination of Rock Blast and Icicle Spear, and it's pretty much always worth exploring what that pairing can do. Especially once you factor in accuracy, Loaded Dice Icicle Spear/Rock Blast are significantly stronger than Mamo's other Ice/Rock attacking options. STAB EQ is STAB EQ. Ice + Ground + Rock hits everything that's not Bronzong at least neutrally, giving you the freedom to run Ice Shard in the last slot to pick off weakened `mons or faster switchins or to save yourself from a tera-less Garchomp, Meowscarda, or whatever, but Knock and Rocks are also good options in that slot. Give it a good defensive Tera Type and, baby, you've got a stew going.
Mamoswine @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Expert Belt
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Trailblaze
- Knock Off
If Mamo's got two big problems not named "Why aren't you using Garchomp?", they're its absolutely middling speed tier and its lack of ability to hit water types. Tera Grass Trailblaze helps mitigate both of those issues, while also taking advantage of Thick Fat to cover for the issues with Grass as a defensive type and vastly improve upon your defensive profile. Turns out that not being weak to Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet does a lot to improve your survivability!
Boots makes it easier to get on the field in the mid-game, but Expert Belt adds some solid oomph and takes advantage of the obscene level of coverage on tap (Ice/Ground/Grass/Dark hits 12 types SE). Notably, after Tera Grass with EBelt, you've got a guaranteed OHKO against Crawdaunt and PhysDef Gastro, deal 96% minimum to Quag, and have a guaranteed 2HKO on PhysDef Washtom, Milotic, and the rare PhysDef Slowking. Even Slowbro and `Mola are 3HKOs.
Note that the EV spread is set so that +2 Mamo will out-speed +1 Base 110 `mons (Scarf Gengar/Zoroark-H, Tera Ogerpon) -- it also has the benefit of creeping anything trying to creep 252 +Spe Base 70's. Going 252/252 Adamant still lets you outrun the whole un-boosted meta at +1 and everything up to +1 Base 106 `mons (Treads, Monkidori) at +2 while trading a little bulk for a little power.
Anyway, again, there's not much Mamo can do that Garchomp doesn't do better, so it's probably an RUBL `mon for as long as Garchomp is in the tier, but it can still take over games in its own right.
in this meta. It sits in Garchomp's shadow for a whole host of reasons (frailer, significantly worse base defensive typing, can't boost its attack, worse hazard setter, etc. etc. etc.), but when you're blessed with the offensive holy grail that is Ground/Ice STAB, you can still Do Some Stuff.Two sets I've played around with are Loaded Dice and AoA with Trail Blaze + Tera Grass.
Mamoswine @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Water / Flying / ???
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
This is the less optimal set for sure, but very few `mons get the combination of Rock Blast and Icicle Spear, and it's pretty much always worth exploring what that pairing can do. Especially once you factor in accuracy, Loaded Dice Icicle Spear/Rock Blast are significantly stronger than Mamo's other Ice/Rock attacking options. STAB EQ is STAB EQ. Ice + Ground + Rock hits everything that's not Bronzong at least neutrally, giving you the freedom to run Ice Shard in the last slot to pick off weakened `mons or faster switchins or to save yourself from a tera-less Garchomp, Meowscarda, or whatever, but Knock and Rocks are also good options in that slot. Give it a good defensive Tera Type and, baby, you've got a stew going.
Mamoswine @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Expert Belt
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Trailblaze
- Knock Off
If Mamo's got two big problems not named "Why aren't you using Garchomp?", they're its absolutely middling speed tier and its lack of ability to hit water types. Tera Grass Trailblaze helps mitigate both of those issues, while also taking advantage of Thick Fat to cover for the issues with Grass as a defensive type and vastly improve upon your defensive profile. Turns out that not being weak to Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet does a lot to improve your survivability!
Boots makes it easier to get on the field in the mid-game, but Expert Belt adds some solid oomph and takes advantage of the obscene level of coverage on tap (Ice/Ground/Grass/Dark hits 12 types SE). Notably, after Tera Grass with EBelt, you've got a guaranteed OHKO against Crawdaunt and PhysDef Gastro, deal 96% minimum to Quag, and have a guaranteed 2HKO on PhysDef Washtom, Milotic, and the rare PhysDef Slowking. Even Slowbro and `Mola are 3HKOs.
Note that the EV spread is set so that +2 Mamo will out-speed +1 Base 110 `mons (Scarf Gengar/Zoroark-H, Tera Ogerpon) -- it also has the benefit of creeping anything trying to creep 252 +Spe Base 70's. Going 252/252 Adamant still lets you outrun the whole un-boosted meta at +1 and everything up to +1 Base 106 `mons (Treads, Monkidori) at +2 while trading a little bulk for a little power.
Anyway, again, there's not much Mamo can do that Garchomp doesn't do better, so it's probably an RUBL `mon for as long as Garchomp is in the tier, but it can still take over games in its own right.
What do you think of Liligant-H?
Pretty balanced so far. The drops added a couple of new checks to it.
Galarian-Weezing resists both of it STABs and takes neutral damage from every coverage move aside Tera Blast and threatens Will-O-Wisp. Munkidori also resists both STABs while being a Psychic Type and being 1 base speed faster means it outspeeds potentially even at +1 with Scarf. Meowscarada outspeeds and potentially threatens Play Rough tho needs chip/another revenge killer at 1 Victory Dance Lilligant. Ogerpon is pretty similar. Weavile is also pretty nice now. Ceruledge (derogatory). Amonguss resists STABs but has to watch for Ice Spinner.
I think it's way more managable now, I haven't seen one on Sun however.
ceru is gross and should be QB'd, that mon still barely has counterplay in the tier
i think chomp is due for a suspect at the very least, i would prefer to see a QB tbh, shit is annoying and can beat all of its checks w. not a lot of team support/w. the right tera type: the only mon that can consistently revenge it is lokix (even then, life orb needs to tera to KO and banded is a roll on -1 def chomp), and mandi/weezing are decent at taking it on but still lose to minor chip+5 hit SS and +2 steel tera iron head respectively, mandi also loses to tera fairy chomp (which is not great, but still worth mentioning)
hands seems much more managable with the additions of Hoopa, chomp, cress, and amoonguss all being very bad for it
Garg is not as obvs broken as ceru and chomp but should be suspected regardless
i think chomp is due for a suspect at the very least, i would prefer to see a QB tbh, shit is annoying and can beat all of its checks w. not a lot of team support/w. the right tera type: the only mon that can consistently revenge it is lokix (even then, life orb needs to tera to KO and banded is a roll on -1 def chomp), and mandi/weezing are decent at taking it on but still lose to minor chip+5 hit SS and +2 steel tera iron head respectively, mandi also loses to tera fairy chomp (which is not great, but still worth mentioning)
hands seems much more managable with the additions of Hoopa, chomp, cress, and amoonguss all being very bad for it
Garg is not as obvs broken as ceru and chomp but should be suspected regardless
sinistcha can sit on it for free healing and eventually force it out with enough calm minds
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Spin
This is a nice niche set especially for rain. Tera Ground makes you wall Rotom completely and Fire Spin traps it and nabs you a kill. I run enough speed to outspeed uninvested Rotom but you could run as low as 64 to outspeed uninvested Heatran and get more bulk. You're not outspeeding alot w it's speed tier so Modest and some bulk made the most sense to me. I attached one replay of it working. It works more times than not bc of the surprise factor.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9uu-1959929574
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Spin
This is a nice niche set especially for rain. Tera Ground makes you wall Rotom completely and Fire Spin traps it and nabs you a kill. I run enough speed to outspeed uninvested Rotom but you could run as low as 64 to outspeed uninvested Heatran and get more bulk. You're not outspeeding alot w it's speed tier so Modest and some bulk made the most sense to me. I attached one replay of it working. It works more times than not bc of the surprise factor.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9uu-1959929574
As a certified Garg user, probably the hardest counter is Amoongus, who sits on it and heals off with giga drain, all while being able to regen off any salt cure chip. I could see Mienshao working in a similar vein. Also as the person above me said, Matcha Gatcha is a much better mon than I gave it credit for originally.
I've been playing a whole load of UU since the drops - the most I've played since the start of the generation, back when encore Grafaiai was spammed to stop Espathra from sweeping entire teams. It's a fun tier! I've been running with balance and making it work reasonably well, which is a good sign. Some thoughts on the brokens, the borderlines, and the new fellas.
Definitely the #1 broken mon in the tier. The tera normal throat spray clangy boomburst set I legitimately don't know how you counter, outisde of I guess Clodsire. But if your counter is an unaware mon, then you're clearly too much. 
Tera is what pushes this fella over the edge for me. My solution so far has been swapping in Weavile to bait the tera, then send in my physdef Quaquaval to sponge the hit and KO with the defence drop. Loaded dice scale shot just hits so obnoxiously hard, and that 102 speed really hits different. 
It's so good! Granted the tier being new and chaotic means people haven't settled on their counters yet. Regen mons limit what it can do. Also with scald back in the metagame, and even a few Jirachi I've seen running around, suddenly there are new reasons to run covert cloak. I got my ass handed to me by a covert cloak Quaquaval recently. Not convinced it's broken yet, but can see the argument.
Tanky bastard, but not broken in my experience. Rocky helmet is a Good Item and there's tons of faster mons packing earthquake or psychic that can beat it down. Psychic is a surprisingly good offensive type coverage to have in this meta. I recommend using it. 
In theory it's another Garchomp that clicks swords dance and sweeps off a speed boost that lowers its defence. In practice though I've found it much more manageable. It's easier to not allow for that speed boost since you're the one who has to give it to them. Or maybe I haven't had issues because I've been spamming Garg and Alomomola.
Putting these two together since they do similar things. Obnoxiously powerful offensive grass types where their grass move doesn't make contact so you can't wear them down with helmet. Also knock and u-turn. Meow is probably the better version since it has the better speed tier and more useful ability. Had to bring my team back to the drawing board a few times due to the lack of sturdy grass resists - what spamming Alomomola + Garg does to a person. 
Just a public service announcement to run psychic on this fella. For all the times Kommo-o or Iron Hands thought I was free setup fodder. 
Fuck me this guy is good! The weird thing about Weavile though is how much it hates tera. It's too frail to make use of it defensively, and I don't know what extra move you'd want tera blast for. Meanwhile I'm constantly having mons tera steel/fairy/water in front of me so my attacks bounce off. Eventually you learn to expect it and switch out as they tera. 
Am I the only person having incredible difficulty with this wee bunny? I've been swept by it more often than I've been swept by either Kommo-o or Garchomp. Rain definitely helps it, but it's not like it needs rain to sweep. Speaking of which:
Definitely seeing a lot of rain on ladder. It's very good, but manageable with a few good predicts and the goat that is helmet Alomomola. Basculegion is stupid strong and probably the most problematic of the bunch to deal with. Well, that and Azumarill, but Azu is a problem even without rain. 
No real comments, except to say how odd it is to see it down here and be just a very normal part of the meta. 
Grouping the three together since I've used all of them. Fezandipiti is garbage. At least in OU it can claim it walls Valiant. Idk what it does here. Sorta walls Enamorus-Therian I guess? Munkidori I thought would be insane but it's merely OK. I tried using a boots set with nasty plot and it only occasionally put it work. Think the best set from what I've seen on ladder is scarf with u-turn. Having to rely on focus blast is scary. Weirdly the best I've found is Munkidori. A big, phat, physically defensive grass resist and deals hella damage back is supremely useful. Sorta like an Iron Hands that can also randomly toxic bitches. Has its issues, like being a physically defensive mon that is murdered by Earthquake. Although there have been games where I've stayed in on an Iron Treads EQ and healed most of the damage back with drain punch. Wow it really is like Iron Hands!
You should be using this thing more. Matcha Gatcha is a fake switch in to this guy. Run some speed and you can even outspeed and laugh in the face of Iron Hands. 
I've mentioned this guy a few times, but wow what a mon. I'm shocked OU hasn't taken it yet. Funnily enough, is a nightmare for stall to face. Oh you thought you could gradually wear down my Weavile and Thundurus-T? Lol. Lmao even. I should probably stop writing now. Kommo-o is the only one I feel is an immediate obvious quickban, although I wouldn't be surprised at all by a Garchomp ban. Also Azumarill, but the lack of anyone else talking about it thinks it may be a skill issue on my part. Could see a Garg ban but would like a little longer so people start building with it in mind. Iron Hands isn't banworthy, and Ceruledge is just a strong cheese sweeper.
Here is a summary of my thoughts about the current metagame after playing a lot of games:
New threats:
- I personally think that this should be banned and that it isn't overhyped like some of the other threats. It has one of the best typings in the game, is very bulky, and is really strong. The combination of SD + Scale Shot allows it to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame and the vast majority of viable Choice Scarf users and Terastallize allows it to set up on previously super-effective moves and to not get revenge killed by common priority moves.
- I haven't used nor seen it that much but a lot of people advocate for its ban and I can see why, on paper at least. I would currently rather abstain from voting on it because of the lack of sample size I've had with it but I can definitely see myself changing my mind in the near future. I'd love it if anyone could send me replays of it being broken (or completely fine for the tier).
(rain) - very annoying to deal with, but is probably not broken and the metagame just needs to adapt to it. Golduck is still the best overall abuser in my opinion but I've heard people talking about Overqwil and Ludicolo being good as well.
- it's an annoying Pokemon for sure but I don't think it's broken; it's more like we have never witnessed a Pokemon like this before and we need to learn how to adapt to it. It reminds me of Registeel in the last generation and for me saying ban Garganacl is saying ban Registeel, which I disagree with. Time might prove me wrong, but this is my humble opinion on it right now.
- I love it so much; I believe it will push the metagame into a faster-paced one thanks to the way it punishes passive Pokemon. It's not without its flaws, though, and this is why I love it that much. I hope the rest of the council thinks the way I do and let it stay.
- I don't know, man. It did win games against me but I haven't seen anything too broken out of it. It might be overshadowed by the other behemoths that lurk in the tier but I think it's fair to give him a fair chance and keep it for a little while longer.
- likewise^, except it didn't win any game against me lol.
Old winners:
- Weavile is so good, honestly. It's splashable as a Speed-control + win-condition + Ghost-resist on BO and Balance and is generally really fun to use.
- it has been good for a while, but now it has become better than ever. It completely messes with Rain, sits on Rotom-Wash if Tera'd, and has very few switch-ins.
- it synergizes really well with Rotom-Wash and is generally just a nice Speed-control to have. It will get better once Garchomp gets banned.
New Pokemon I really enjoy using but are definitely not considered potentially broken (you know what they do so I am not going to get into details):
New threats:
- I personally think that this should be banned and that it isn't overhyped like some of the other threats. It has one of the best typings in the game, is very bulky, and is really strong. The combination of SD + Scale Shot allows it to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame and the vast majority of viable Choice Scarf users and Terastallize allows it to set up on previously super-effective moves and to not get revenge killed by common priority moves. - I haven't used nor seen it that much but a lot of people advocate for its ban and I can see why, on paper at least. I would currently rather abstain from voting on it because of the lack of sample size I've had with it but I can definitely see myself changing my mind in the near future. I'd love it if anyone could send me replays of it being broken (or completely fine for the tier). (rain) - very annoying to deal with, but is probably not broken and the metagame just needs to adapt to it. Golduck is still the best overall abuser in my opinion but I've heard people talking about Overqwil and Ludicolo being good as well. - it's an annoying Pokemon for sure but I don't think it's broken; it's more like we have never witnessed a Pokemon like this before and we need to learn how to adapt to it. It reminds me of Registeel in the last generation and for me saying ban Garganacl is saying ban Registeel, which I disagree with. Time might prove me wrong, but this is my humble opinion on it right now. - I love it so much; I believe it will push the metagame into a faster-paced one thanks to the way it punishes passive Pokemon. It's not without its flaws, though, and this is why I love it that much. I hope the rest of the council thinks the way I do and let it stay. - I don't know, man. It did win games against me but I haven't seen anything too broken out of it. It might be overshadowed by the other behemoths that lurk in the tier but I think it's fair to give him a fair chance and keep it for a little while longer. - likewise^, except it didn't win any game against me lol.Old winners:
- Weavile is so good, honestly. It's splashable as a Speed-control + win-condition + Ghost-resist on BO and Balance and is generally really fun to use. - it has been good for a while, but now it has become better than ever. It completely messes with Rain, sits on Rotom-Wash if Tera'd, and has very few switch-ins. - it synergizes really well with Rotom-Wash and is generally just a nice Speed-control to have. It will get better once Garchomp gets banned.New Pokemon I really enjoy using but are definitely not considered potentially broken (you know what they do so I am not going to get into details):
Did you mean to say Okidogi here and not Munkidori? I do agree Dogi is surprisnly good with its typing, being phat on physical and having BU Drain Punch. Will probably get better with time too.
I think Garchomp would be perfectly balanced without Tera, it’s not like we don’t have Weavile chilling in the tier and a big fat bulky pivot like Mola to get it in safely. The power level of UU is so outrageously high rn; I think a slate of QBs are in order. I quit OU this gen for UU because I felt like I was playing UUbers and now UU is basically OU from June. We should aim to have as few mons in the tier you auto lose to with a single free turn or without running Tera ghost covert cloak (cough cough Garg).
Also - invest in Lokix - absolute GOAT of a mon, just an absolute nuisance for offense builds to deal with.
Also - invest in Lokix - absolute GOAT of a mon, just an absolute nuisance for offense builds to deal with.
I conquer. I too would love to see the power level drop. Overall, I’m pretty happy with the slate we got. I think the only mon I want to stay is pelipper, but I’m VERY biased in that opinion. Maybe we can consider banning Azu and/or Basc first? I think without those two, rain overall might be more balanced. I’m a low ladder noob, tho; I am not a meta game expert, so pelipper might be the problematic factor.
I think these are the two most problematic mons rn. Ceruledge ho is just not fair, the mon pretty much guarantees you keep up vs any spinner, and can beat all its defensive checks. Even if you don't attack it on the physical side its capable of 1v1ing so many special attackers, especially with tera, due to recovery from bitter blade. Mandibuzz loses 1v1 to sash ceru, garg can't beat it consistently due to the combination of cc and bitter blade. Kommo-o just has too many things it can do which require different counterplay, I think it has no place in the tier.
I think these are both dumb, probably chomp moreso than garg. If you build your team with chomp in mind you shouldn't lose to it in a vacuum, but beating chomp and friends is a different story, I think outside of washtom it's checks aren't really good into the wider meta, and the interactions with washtom aren't exactly the most healthy, +2 scale shot okhos if it gets 5 hits so you have to tera to beat it reliably. I might be underrating gweez, but it's also running whats probably a worse ability in levitate just to deal with chomp and even then can lose. I think garg is really dumb but idk, things might change with other bans, I don't really have too much commentary to offer. Either of these could stay or get banned, don't have overly strong feelings.
Haven't really faced this that much, nor have I really used it which separates it from some of the other mons for me. Has potential to be really dumb but I can see a lot of stuff that does well into the hands structures I've seen getting better with other bans, would probably wait on it personally but I wouldn't be complaining if it was gone.
The balloon tera blast grass set is honestly a lot sillier than I thought it'd be but like idk, need to see what it's like without some of the other stuff in the tier.
P sure this won't get qbd, I think rain requires some fairly specific counterplay which isn't necessarily consistent across different rain 6s, and as long as its in the tier it will get auto win mus on occasion (not including if rain is limited to politoed because there are way better lines to outplay bad mus into politoed rain). Ultimately though its not broken as of now in my opinion and barring insane tour performances in the near future will stick around, would kind of like to test it if we have time at some point though.
I think these are the two most problematic mons rn. Ceruledge ho is just not fair, the mon pretty much guarantees you keep up vs any spinner, and can beat all its defensive checks. Even if you don't attack it on the physical side its capable of 1v1ing so many special attackers, especially with tera, due to recovery from bitter blade. Mandibuzz loses 1v1 to sash ceru, garg can't beat it consistently due to the combination of cc and bitter blade. Kommo-o just has too many things it can do which require different counterplay, I think it has no place in the tier.
I think these are both dumb, probably chomp moreso than garg. If you build your team with chomp in mind you shouldn't lose to it in a vacuum, but beating chomp and friends is a different story, I think outside of washtom it's checks aren't really good into the wider meta, and the interactions with washtom aren't exactly the most healthy, +2 scale shot okhos if it gets 5 hits so you have to tera to beat it reliably. I might be underrating gweez, but it's also running whats probably a worse ability in levitate just to deal with chomp and even then can lose. I think garg is really dumb but idk, things might change with other bans, I don't really have too much commentary to offer. Either of these could stay or get banned, don't have overly strong feelings.
Haven't really faced this that much, nor have I really used it which separates it from some of the other mons for me. Has potential to be really dumb but I can see a lot of stuff that does well into the hands structures I've seen getting better with other bans, would probably wait on it personally but I wouldn't be complaining if it was gone.
The balloon tera blast grass set is honestly a lot sillier than I thought it'd be but like idk, need to see what it's like without some of the other stuff in the tier.
P sure this won't get qbd, I think rain requires some fairly specific counterplay which isn't necessarily consistent across different rain 6s, and as long as its in the tier it will get auto win mus on occasion (not including if rain is limited to politoed because there are way better lines to outplay bad mus into politoed rain). Ultimately though its not broken as of now in my opinion and barring insane tour performances in the near future will stick around, would kind of like to test it if we have time at some point though.
I gotta say that the fat breaker speed creep is real (run speed on your Ursaluna/Iron Hands people!). Tera Grass Heatran is for sure the best set, anything else is just an easy Mola switch and flip turn. Giving up that Fire/Steel typing just makes teams ever weaker to U-turn/First Impression spam though, so there's major tradeoffs. Ceruledge and Kommo-o both need quickbans, just lame to play against and extremely constricting in the builder.
the main thing that changed is that there are more special attackers that could keep Ceru from proccing weak armor as freely but it still has win-win interactions against every spinner besides 
but that is like a cope pick tbh. Tera Fairy is also pretty good at giving it free immunity on one of the most common ways to beat sash mons which is LD Scale Shot . I can't in good faith see this thing staying again. Jolly weak armor also outspeeds every relevant scarfer in the tier, the main thing that changed is that rain is a thing again so swift swimmers can "kinda" keep it honest with their own priority and weakens Bitter Blade, Ceru runs sneak more since it got freed over CC. Don't love seeing it in the tier. This one I admitly haven't found myself losing to it much besides the occasional screens team. It's kinda dumb tbh with the omni boost it gets and being able to pick and choose what moves it wants. I don't particularly care for its presence and idt anyone misses it if it goes. ok this is the 3rd time we've had rain come back to this tier and quite frankly I've never enjoyed its presence in the tier because of the restrictions it imposes on the builder, maybe it's a product of the tier having far too many threats to account for at the moment. There are enough viable combinations for rain to work with to muscle through certain defensive structures. 
as a setter also kinda stinks lol if Pel was qb'ed. I don't think rain's presence is good for the tier's health. Oh yeah baby can't wait for this thing to get banned at some point before DLC2 only for it to be freed again anyways and we go through this same shit again like it's Groundhog Day LOL! Everyone knows what the fuck Hands does at this point with the whole get a solid trade and then some. The only reason this isn't seen more atm is because of the 156186 things the tier gained. is pretty good rn, probably broken but moreso cuz it indirectly enables its teammates with the burden it places on the other team to stop it from running it over. SD Dice Scale Shot is the main one everyone has their eyes on and for good reason. Having consistent dragon STAB that's 100-125 base power is great for it that also breaks sash as well. IMO you need to have a really good reason to not run dice on chomp cuz otherwise I think it's a major waste of Chomp. Tera Fire and Steel are the main ones everyone has their eyes on and demands a lot of attention when teambuilding. Also a u-turn punisher with rough skin is good too but it very well is too much for the tier. feels normal? Don't really buy it being banworthy. It feels pretty healthy for the most part and is a net positive. I mean yea tera grass is good and all but the tier has no shortage of mons that pose a threat to it. Salt Cure is pretty dumb sure, and it's pretty stupid at what it does and can also double down as a wincon. ID and Curse are dumb for its own reasons. However, I feel like I haven't seen as much covert cloak usage as I would've expected. Maybe this is a case of too many threats in the tier moment.
Last edited:
- Status