Not like it necessarily means anything. When the Bengals had 7 dudes arrested in whatever span of time, it was not about locker room culture. Sure a couple were bad eggs, but the rest are just young semi-rich people partying it up. Hand a 21 year old a pile of money and most are not going to handle it well.
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The Everything NFL Thread - 2013-2014 Edition
- Thread starter Killah
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Not like it necessarily means anything. When the Bengals had 7 dudes arrested in whatever span of time, it was not about locker room culture. Sure a couple were bad eggs, but the rest are just young semi-rich people partying it up. Hand a 21 year old a pile of money and most are not going to handle it well.
@some hero I had you on ignore on the old forums. gotta figure out how to do that again. You seriously just said that Alfred Morris was better than Jones/White/Gonzales. That may be the dumbest thing you have EVER posted. These aren't just two good receivers. They're probably both top 5 in the league.
@WB: I am doing this with everyone's posts. It's weird. On the default Android browser the forum looks better and sigs are a smaller font than posts but I can't type into the text boxes. On mobile FireFox I can type but the sigs and posts are the same size font.
@WB: I am doing this with everyone's posts. It's weird. On the default Android browser the forum looks better and sigs are a smaller font than posts but I can't type into the text boxes. On mobile FireFox I can type but the sigs and posts are the same size font.
if you have advice on how to fix it feel free, most of you guys seem to have signatures that work as opposed to mine..or is it just about post length?
matt ryan is definitely one of the best qbs in the nfl (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8434708/the-numbers-never-lie-ravens-fueled-their-defense)
but you're severely underrating matt ryan's supporting cast and overrating rg3's in this case. white and jones finished 9 and 11th in yards this season (and jones was 7th in touchdowns, that screams elite WR in the making) and old man tony gonzales was 9th in receptions, 26th in yards, and 15th in touchdowns...among tight ends AND wide receivers. he was cream of the crop as far as tight ends go.
meanwhile mike shanahan's system for rbs always produces high number backs (see such studs like mike anderson and reuben drougns). im not sold on morris at all. also much of that most dominant run game comes from rg3 and the misdirection, giving morris more yardage than he would have while rg3 got a lot of it himself.
Are you kidding me? Eli is easily top 10 in the league. Multiple Super Bowl rings and MVP trophies, and his ability to perform when it really counts is unmatched. 8 game winning drives in 2011. That's incredibly clutch, and he does that kind of stuff consistently. He also has the most fourth quarter TD's in the NFL, again, clutch as hell. His ability to bring it in the essential games can also be seen in how his teams are always the underdogs going into the playoffs (9-7 in 2011). Both of his Super Bowl wins have come as a direct result of his late game drives.
In short, I guess what I am trying to say is while Eli may be mediocre in terms of stats and other barometers of a quarterback, he shines when it really matters and that is why I consider him an elite quarterback.
In short, I guess what I am trying to say is while Eli may be mediocre in terms of stats and other barometers of a quarterback, he shines when it really matters and that is why I consider him an elite quarterback.
I wouldn't call Eli an "elite" QB, but I would put him with the group that is just a notch below. Elite to me is not a term that should be lightly awarded, and reserved for QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Peyton, and Brady. Eli belongs to that next group that includes Roethlisberger, Eli, Ryan, and Romo (with Rivers and Schaub knocking on the door). It is correct that Eli has impressive stats in clutch situations, but I'm afraid a QB cannot reach "elite" status simply on clutch alone. This is precisely the reason why Roethlisberger is not considered elite either. If Eli could show dominance consistently in the regular season over the course of multiple years, he would be in that elite conversation for sure.
W. Manning is top 10, but get real all he can do is throw a deep ball. Worse Manning having more super bowl wins than Better Manning is the biggest travesty in sports history x_x
WaterBomb two years ago when this argument really blew up on this forums (not that I helped =j), I know I personally overrated Schaub. After watching a lot more of him since then, I can confidently say he is not knocking on any door and I believe he is pretty mediocre. Does he get his team that win over the Ravens two years ago if he is in the game instead of Yates? God absolutely - it took three interceptions to lose that game, that D was throwing Raven corpses everywhere. The Texans choking away a bye and everything else last season though, that is the real Schaub...someone who really cannot take over ANY game of a season by himself. I would honestly say that despite what the statistics say about who is the better player, I actually do believe Andrew Luck was already better at taking over games last year. I believe in the entire cadre of young QBs more than him (RG3, Newton, Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck).
I am sooooooooooo fucking bummed about Newton year 2.0; his statistics were the same as year 1, sexy but not enough...if anything he put up that he put up mostly the exact same numbers with over 2% less accuracy is mind boggling. I really want him to hit that elite level and not follow a Phillip Rivers career path instead, but obviously there is also plenty of time for him to sort his game out two years into a career.
WaterBomb two years ago when this argument really blew up on this forums (not that I helped =j), I know I personally overrated Schaub. After watching a lot more of him since then, I can confidently say he is not knocking on any door and I believe he is pretty mediocre. Does he get his team that win over the Ravens two years ago if he is in the game instead of Yates? God absolutely - it took three interceptions to lose that game, that D was throwing Raven corpses everywhere. The Texans choking away a bye and everything else last season though, that is the real Schaub...someone who really cannot take over ANY game of a season by himself. I would honestly say that despite what the statistics say about who is the better player, I actually do believe Andrew Luck was already better at taking over games last year. I believe in the entire cadre of young QBs more than him (RG3, Newton, Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck).
I am sooooooooooo fucking bummed about Newton year 2.0; his statistics were the same as year 1, sexy but not enough...if anything he put up that he put up mostly the exact same numbers with over 2% less accuracy is mind boggling. I really want him to hit that elite level and not follow a Phillip Rivers career path instead, but obviously there is also plenty of time for him to sort his game out two years into a career.
He was fantastic in 2011, but he came crashing back down to Earth this season and it's hard to call him an elite quarterback when he was just as un-clutch this year as he was clutch in 2011. Furthermore, this was not a down year for Eli Manning. He delivered the mediocrity that he's delivered every season he's been in the NFL save for a stellar campaign in 2011.
Let's look at Eli Manning's "ability to bring it in the essential games" this season. Going into Week 15 this season, the Giants had an 8-6 record, one game ahead of the Cowboys and Redskins at 7-6 each breathing down the Giants' necks. Given the playoff picture at the time, it was safe to assume that whichever teams that did not win the NFC East would fail to make the playoffs. If Eli Manning had this "ability to bring it in the essential games", then you would expect him to be able to lead his offense to crucial wins down the stretch and to preserve a lead in the division. During Week 15, the Giants played the Atlanta Falcons and their 24th-ranked defense. Eli Manning went 13-for-25 passing, zero touchdowns, and two interceptions. His Giants scored zero points and his team was blown out by 34 points. That isn't a "clutch performance", that's choking away a game when you need to win. Furthermore, the Cowboys and Redskins both won that week.
In Week 16, Eli Manning had a chance to redeem his poor performance in Week 15 and still win the NFC East. The Giants were playing a watered down, free-falling Baltimore Ravens team. Yes, the Ravens went on to win the Super Bowl, but this Ravens team had no Ray Lewis to lead them and had lost three consecutive games. Furthermore, the Giants controlled their own playoff destiny going into this game. If Eli Manning delivered against the free-falling Ravens and played well against the worst team in the NFC next week (Philadelphia), his team would be poised to defend its Super Bowl title.
He completed half of his passes for 150 yards and a touchdown. His passer rating was a mediocre 78.0, and his offense delivered but 14 points. The Redskins won that week and Eli Manning threw away the NFC East that game.
I cannot take away his Super Bowl titles and pair of Super Bowl MVPs. His 2011 performance was elite, but it was an outlier year. What you can expect from Eli Manning is 3000-4000 yards, about 25-30 touchdowns, and far too many turnovers to call him elite. Speaking of turnovers, let's look at Eli Manning's unparalleled ability to put the ball in the hands of the opposing team. Over the past four regular seasons, Eli Manning has turned the ball over 98 times, or over 1.5 turnovers per game. Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez has turned the ball over 89 times in the same period. Furthermore, Eli Manning had three straight games in the middle of the season where he threw for zero touchdowns and posted a passer rating below 60.
Furthermore, 4th quarter touchdown passes are not an acceptable statistic to judge a quarterback. Can you guess who led the league in 4th quarter touchdown passes last year? It was no other than "Mr. Clutch" Tony Romo! Yes, Tony Romo, the man with the greatest 4th quarter passer rating in NFL history!
Eli Manning, in general, is good under pressure. However, he can just as easily choke away a playoff berth as he can lead his team to a Super Bowl title. Eli Manning is an above average QB because of his 2011 season and only because of his 2011 season. Other than that, he has benefited greatly from an all-time great coach, a wonderful defense (aka the reason why the Giants won in 20o7), and a good clutch gene. But he choked away this season down the stretch while Robert Griffin III, a rookie, stole the division from right under his nose. It's hard to call Eli a top-10 quarterback when there are easily 10 quarterbacks that could have taken this Giants team to the playoffs.
While i could destroy your entire argument i'll just lay some things down for clarification. I do blame some of 2012 on Eli, but let's keep it fair.
I am not hyping Eli going into this year that much only because he didn't earn it. Romo did in 2012... Whose 2012 was almost identical to Elis 2011 season. Minus a few things. But thats not what i'm going to talk about. So i'm already losing focus. Damn it. Anyways, while his season was mediocre, Eli himself remains just as good. It was not his fault the Giants didn't win against the Ravens and Falcons. The Giants at that point were a injury riddled mess and still had not done anything to fix the offense. If you saw the Ravens game you would remember that the Giants, in complete desperation, played mostly using 4 LBs to try and take Rice outta the game. You get why this is a problem right? The Giants' current administration doesn't believe in the position! It's literally the worst position group in the team. When the season was going on i joked how it had 1 NFL caliber starter... Now that hes been released and isn't even on a team i realised the Giants had no NFL caliber LBs last year haha! Only career backups or players out of position. Now, back to the Ravens game. The Giants that game decided to put their 4 worst defensive players on the field from the start. Admitting they couldn't stop Rice otherwise and challenging the Ravens receivers to make crazy catches against them. Well it happened.. Chris Canty also went out that game. And while he didn't play the first 6(iirc 7) games of the season and playing the rest injured, he was at least there. But nope he went down. Making him the 5th DT to go down for the Giants for some time. The Giants were left with a useless, beyond awful Justin Tuck, an overworked LJ and the dominant JPP. Only two out of the Giants DL were any good last year. And LJ was mostly ineffective by the end of the season due to the lack of any rotation. Once the DL goes so does the D in general. LBs are garbage and Webster was having his worst year ever. The D was ranked 28th overall. Just sayin'. Not good at all.
Next is the offensive injuries. You guys probably don't remember but right after the first Egg game i predicted the offense would collapse completely. Despite Eli throwing for 300 yds i saw some very dark things. Mainly that teams can control Cruz and the Giants offense isn't going to change despite Nicks not being there. So i predicted the collapse that followed, including a 3(4?) week stretch without TDs for Eli. How did i know this? It's simple, the Giants offense is all about that big ass 50 yd play. It has no consistency because it doesn't need it. The offense is built on beating the other team with 4-5 big plays per game. It's also built so that a big play kick starts the offense. When it isn't happening the play calling gets horrendous and desperate... But how did i know the big plays would stop coming thus shutting down the offense completely? Nicks injury mostly. As you all might remember i also panicked when Nicks got injured before the season started and was ready to throw in the towel. Why so fast? Nicks is the best receiver on the team. The offense doesn't work without him. Sure, the team can deal with his absence for ~3 games per season but not the entire year. While he didn't miss too many games, the dude was tarrible all season. He was slow as hell and limped after every play. He was worse than most backups. And thats a problem, the Giants had an injured player playing because of desperation. Then throughout the season you had the 3rd receiver on the team coming in and out with injuries. Losing Manningham ended up being the Giants undoing offensively basically.
Let's assume Nicks was healthy. He would EASILY(and i mean STUPID EASILY) have gotten 400~500 more yds and say 5 TDS min. That would put Eli for the season at about ~4500, 30~33 TDs and 15 INTs. Another great season by the QB. And i didn't even mention the TE getting injured during the Browns game. Making the TE position almost irrelevant beyond that point. It was basically Cruz and Eli. Had Nicks been healthy it would have been a really good season for the QB. But he wasn't and it didn't turn out as expected.
Next is Eli himself. And what he does for the team. Eli is the most elusive QB in the league. He greatly helps average OLs look better than they are. Despite their good grades on websites, the Giants OL were pretty bad pass blocking. Eli has transformed avoiding the rush into an artform. The OL does deserve some credit for remaining healthy, but as 2011 proved a turnstile could do their job. Being the least sacked QB in the league is almost wholly Elis achievement. He was on a whole other level early in the season, but the lack of offensive talent really slowed him down in the later games.
So in conclusion, just how i don't blame other QBs for a teams failure(mostly, there are exceptions) Eli deserves no blame for the 2012 season. He does deserve some praise for putting up 3900 yds, 26 TDs with no offensive weapons and the second half of the season being absolutely horrendous. Putting up 4000 yds and 30 TDs is second nature for Eli at this point. Even with horrendous injuries he still almost did that. So yeah still top ten, if only for his damn elusiveness. While i'm still a little disappointed i know that those losses weren't his fault. It was coaching and mediocrity of the team in general. He was the Giants one bright spot most of the season tbh. But thats only clear if you watch the games as his magic is currently not a mainstream stat.
I am not hyping Eli going into this year that much only because he didn't earn it. Romo did in 2012... Whose 2012 was almost identical to Elis 2011 season. Minus a few things. But thats not what i'm going to talk about. So i'm already losing focus. Damn it. Anyways, while his season was mediocre, Eli himself remains just as good. It was not his fault the Giants didn't win against the Ravens and Falcons. The Giants at that point were a injury riddled mess and still had not done anything to fix the offense. If you saw the Ravens game you would remember that the Giants, in complete desperation, played mostly using 4 LBs to try and take Rice outta the game. You get why this is a problem right? The Giants' current administration doesn't believe in the position! It's literally the worst position group in the team. When the season was going on i joked how it had 1 NFL caliber starter... Now that hes been released and isn't even on a team i realised the Giants had no NFL caliber LBs last year haha! Only career backups or players out of position. Now, back to the Ravens game. The Giants that game decided to put their 4 worst defensive players on the field from the start. Admitting they couldn't stop Rice otherwise and challenging the Ravens receivers to make crazy catches against them. Well it happened.. Chris Canty also went out that game. And while he didn't play the first 6(iirc 7) games of the season and playing the rest injured, he was at least there. But nope he went down. Making him the 5th DT to go down for the Giants for some time. The Giants were left with a useless, beyond awful Justin Tuck, an overworked LJ and the dominant JPP. Only two out of the Giants DL were any good last year. And LJ was mostly ineffective by the end of the season due to the lack of any rotation. Once the DL goes so does the D in general. LBs are garbage and Webster was having his worst year ever. The D was ranked 28th overall. Just sayin'. Not good at all.
Next is the offensive injuries. You guys probably don't remember but right after the first Egg game i predicted the offense would collapse completely. Despite Eli throwing for 300 yds i saw some very dark things. Mainly that teams can control Cruz and the Giants offense isn't going to change despite Nicks not being there. So i predicted the collapse that followed, including a 3(4?) week stretch without TDs for Eli. How did i know this? It's simple, the Giants offense is all about that big ass 50 yd play. It has no consistency because it doesn't need it. The offense is built on beating the other team with 4-5 big plays per game. It's also built so that a big play kick starts the offense. When it isn't happening the play calling gets horrendous and desperate... But how did i know the big plays would stop coming thus shutting down the offense completely? Nicks injury mostly. As you all might remember i also panicked when Nicks got injured before the season started and was ready to throw in the towel. Why so fast? Nicks is the best receiver on the team. The offense doesn't work without him. Sure, the team can deal with his absence for ~3 games per season but not the entire year. While he didn't miss too many games, the dude was tarrible all season. He was slow as hell and limped after every play. He was worse than most backups. And thats a problem, the Giants had an injured player playing because of desperation. Then throughout the season you had the 3rd receiver on the team coming in and out with injuries. Losing Manningham ended up being the Giants undoing offensively basically.
Let's assume Nicks was healthy. He would EASILY(and i mean STUPID EASILY) have gotten 400~500 more yds and say 5 TDS min. That would put Eli for the season at about ~4500, 30~33 TDs and 15 INTs. Another great season by the QB. And i didn't even mention the TE getting injured during the Browns game. Making the TE position almost irrelevant beyond that point. It was basically Cruz and Eli. Had Nicks been healthy it would have been a really good season for the QB. But he wasn't and it didn't turn out as expected.
Next is Eli himself. And what he does for the team. Eli is the most elusive QB in the league. He greatly helps average OLs look better than they are. Despite their good grades on websites, the Giants OL were pretty bad pass blocking. Eli has transformed avoiding the rush into an artform. The OL does deserve some credit for remaining healthy, but as 2011 proved a turnstile could do their job. Being the least sacked QB in the league is almost wholly Elis achievement. He was on a whole other level early in the season, but the lack of offensive talent really slowed him down in the later games.
So in conclusion, just how i don't blame other QBs for a teams failure(mostly, there are exceptions) Eli deserves no blame for the 2012 season. He does deserve some praise for putting up 3900 yds, 26 TDs with no offensive weapons and the second half of the season being absolutely horrendous. Putting up 4000 yds and 30 TDs is second nature for Eli at this point. Even with horrendous injuries he still almost did that. So yeah still top ten, if only for his damn elusiveness. While i'm still a little disappointed i know that those losses weren't his fault. It was coaching and mediocrity of the team in general. He was the Giants one bright spot most of the season tbh. But thats only clear if you watch the games as his magic is currently not a mainstream stat.
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Ignores every single point about Eli's CAREER, and blames injuries.
If Eli's bad performances were at all rare, I'd look for outside reasons like injuries to teammates, but they fucking aren't, because he's fucking actually inconsistent.
If Eli's bad performances were at all rare, I'd look for outside reasons like injuries to teammates, but they fucking aren't, because he's fucking actually inconsistent.
Ben Roethlisberger plays behind one of the worst lines in the league that is constantly injured, and he still manages to stay relatively consistent. I don't want to hear you blaming Eli's problems on injuries when he's been one of the least hit QBs in the league over his entire career.
If someone jumps to the elite group, besides Matt Ryan who is in a really hard place to contextualize right now, it has to be a young guy (RG3, Kaepernick, Newton, less likely than those three Wilson...less likely than all 4 Luck, everyone believes in him the most but whatever)....we know that Roethlisberger, Romo, Weak Manning, and Phillip Rivers are not real contenders now. Romo looked poised post 31/10 to jump to that group, but every time he threw for 400 yards this season his team lost. Roethlisberger is in that Steve McNair "always injured" territory and had never previously made a jump to elite to begin with. 26/15 is who Eli is, he got a free Victor Cruz that helped luck him into another ridiculous championship, but we know who he is as as quarterback.
Kaepernick with rushing threw up like 17 TD 3 INT in 7 games...and also fumbled like an incredible 9 fucking times. Newton is the best long passer out of these three guys, and actually one of the most efficient long passers the league has ever seen. RG3 is definitely the best passer out of the three no matter how much he passes short or how simple his system is, but he is also the one with by far the most dangerous running style :(
Matt Ryan went for 32 TD/14 INT, which used to be auto-elite numbers and is still pretty close. His team also wasted a massive amount of resources to buy him a WR and I am not sure how much 32 TD actually means in the NFL anymore...still a lot but ehhhh. kd24 pointed out to me that he had a 0 TD 5 INT game (against an overall quality Arizona secondary), if he simply went 0/0 that game his statistics would be being constantly jizzed about by everybody for the low INT factor. The winning level in Atlanta last 5 years has been insane, especially when they have to face NO twice a year. Two years ago Rivers and Romo looked pretty fucking good too though, and Stafford just recently had the most confusingly "on paper good, but his opponents were terrible" season of all time, so I personally want to be skeptical of Ryan.
tl;dr my favorite for a jump to "elite" is still Newton 8===D no matter how much people want to call it fanboying or something, I just believe that if he can bring his best more often it will be unbelievable. I still hope for all the best for Romo, he still had the best second half of 2011...but if 2012 is what it looks like when he is always trying to win games on his own then idk...
Also Rivers needs a team jump more than anyone in the league. Some parts of his statistics (Y/A, completion %) seem patently random right now considering how he improved TD/INT this season while performing "worse" otherwise. To me that indicates a guy with a fragile psyche who feels overburdened with his job. Ending up on the Raiders or Bills will ruin his life (no D), ending up on the Browns, Dolphins, or Vikings and he would give them +2 wins a year over the next three years while being gushed over endlessly again I think. Being on the Chargers for three more years might ruin him to the point it ends his career then and there :/
Kaepernick with rushing threw up like 17 TD 3 INT in 7 games...and also fumbled like an incredible 9 fucking times. Newton is the best long passer out of these three guys, and actually one of the most efficient long passers the league has ever seen. RG3 is definitely the best passer out of the three no matter how much he passes short or how simple his system is, but he is also the one with by far the most dangerous running style :(
Matt Ryan went for 32 TD/14 INT, which used to be auto-elite numbers and is still pretty close. His team also wasted a massive amount of resources to buy him a WR and I am not sure how much 32 TD actually means in the NFL anymore...still a lot but ehhhh. kd24 pointed out to me that he had a 0 TD 5 INT game (against an overall quality Arizona secondary), if he simply went 0/0 that game his statistics would be being constantly jizzed about by everybody for the low INT factor. The winning level in Atlanta last 5 years has been insane, especially when they have to face NO twice a year. Two years ago Rivers and Romo looked pretty fucking good too though, and Stafford just recently had the most confusingly "on paper good, but his opponents were terrible" season of all time, so I personally want to be skeptical of Ryan.
tl;dr my favorite for a jump to "elite" is still Newton 8===D no matter how much people want to call it fanboying or something, I just believe that if he can bring his best more often it will be unbelievable. I still hope for all the best for Romo, he still had the best second half of 2011...but if 2012 is what it looks like when he is always trying to win games on his own then idk...
Also Rivers needs a team jump more than anyone in the league. Some parts of his statistics (Y/A, completion %) seem patently random right now considering how he improved TD/INT this season while performing "worse" otherwise. To me that indicates a guy with a fragile psyche who feels overburdened with his job. Ending up on the Raiders or Bills will ruin his life (no D), ending up on the Browns, Dolphins, or Vikings and he would give them +2 wins a year over the next three years while being gushed over endlessly again I think. Being on the Chargers for three more years might ruin him to the point it ends his career then and there :/
Yeah, I'm not really sure who is "overrating" Matt Ryan. The only arguments people ever use against him are "he'd be trash without Roddy/Gonzalez/Julio" or "he chokes in the playoffs!!!" ignoring anything else about his actual play level. And honestly, if I ever hear anyone say he's too weak to throw the deep ball, I'm gonna have to choke a bitch.
Here's some context.
Last year's season for Ryan was not a fluke, it's the beginning of the new norm. Ryan has improved every single year save his disappointing 2009 season. He's been ahead of the curve for any quarterback his age, possibly ever. His ceiling is just as high as those other three names. If you want to pin this all on the talent around him rather than claim any of it to his credit - fine.
There's one other quarterback that was left off the list. Two years his senior but a starter for the same period of time, Aaron Rodgers has been phenomenal throughout his career. Here's his numbers through five seasons as a starter:
As you might recall, Rodgers had an amazing breakout postseason in 2010, following up by an amazing year in 2011 where he completed over 68% of his passes for 45 TDs and only 6 interceptions, all of this after his 28th birthday. Is it too much to expect Ryan to take a step forward in the same vein?
Man that game was crazy as hell. At least two of the interceptions were batted balls, pretty sure one went through Roddy's hands on like the first play of the game and at least one other bounced off a helmet or something crazy. Not to mention the fumble out of bounds that got saved on what was basically the defensive play of the year. I'd personally hold Ryan's 1-3 game against Oakland against him way more.
He was 1-8 in those two games, and a combined 31-6 in his other 14 regular season games. He was also 6-3 in the playoffs against two great defenses, which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.
A slight improvement and the elimination of a couple of bad games, and I think another step forward with a 35-10 season is well within reach. I know some people will never change their "elite" list, and I don't personally care for it, but calling him anything but a top 5 QB after next season will be a mistake. I for one think he's there right now.
I know this post is long enough, but all you have to do to talk up Cam Newton is take his stats over the last 8 games and double them. 26-8 TDs-Ints, over 3900 yards, and another almost 800 yards and 8 TDs on the ground. All he'd have to do is improve on his 58% passing and he's basically elite! They just have to get him someone else to pass to, preferably before Steve Smith's legs fall off.
Here's some context.
- Matt Ryan has been in the top 5 in QBR and Pro Football Focus's QB grading 4 out of 5 years, the odd year out being his inconsistent sophomore campaign where he was injured and played injured the last month of the season (it was a bad year regardless, though).
- Over those four years, he's been rated 5th (2012), 6th (2011), 5th (2010), and 7th (2008) in Football Outsider's DYAR.
- This might surprise some of you, but in 2010 Matt Ryan didn't have Julio Jones to throw to. He had neither Julio nor Gonzalez in 2008.
- Football Outsiders even ranked Julio and Roddy 29th and 17th, respectively, in DYAR in 2011. Tony Gonzalez was 4th that year for TEs.
- Last year, Roddy/Julio (9th/11th) weren't even the highest ranked duo in the league. That belonged to Thomas/Decker (3rd/4th) AND Colston/Moore (5th/6th).
- QB: Games played, Completions/Attempts (%), Yards (per game), YPA, TDs, Ints, Ratio
- Peyton Manning ('98-'02): 80, 1749/2817 (61.09%), 20,618 (257.7), 7.319, 138, 100, 1.38
- Tom Brady ('01-'05): 79, 1576/2545 (61.93%), 18,209 (230.5), 7.155, 123, 66, 1.86
- Drew Brees ('02-'06): 74, 1466/2336 (62.76%), 16,545 (223.58), 7.083, 105, 64, 1.64
- Matt Ryan ('08-'12): 78, 1654/2637 (62.72%), 18,975 (243.27), 7.197, 127, 60, 2.12
Last year's season for Ryan was not a fluke, it's the beginning of the new norm. Ryan has improved every single year save his disappointing 2009 season. He's been ahead of the curve for any quarterback his age, possibly ever. His ceiling is just as high as those other three names. If you want to pin this all on the talent around him rather than claim any of it to his credit - fine.
There's one other quarterback that was left off the list. Two years his senior but a starter for the same period of time, Aaron Rodgers has been phenomenal throughout his career. Here's his numbers through five seasons as a starter:
- Aaron Rodgers ('08-'12): 78, 1717/2606 (65.88%), 21,332 (273.49), 8.186, 170, 45, 3.78
- Matt Ryan: 48, 1126/1752 (64.27%), 12,601 (262.52), 7.192, 89, 35, 2.54
- Aaron Rodgers: 47, 1003/1552 (64.63%), 12,394 (263.70), 7.986, 86, 31, 2.77
As you might recall, Rodgers had an amazing breakout postseason in 2010, following up by an amazing year in 2011 where he completed over 68% of his passes for 45 TDs and only 6 interceptions, all of this after his 28th birthday. Is it too much to expect Ryan to take a step forward in the same vein?
Man that game was crazy as hell. At least two of the interceptions were batted balls, pretty sure one went through Roddy's hands on like the first play of the game and at least one other bounced off a helmet or something crazy. Not to mention the fumble out of bounds that got saved on what was basically the defensive play of the year. I'd personally hold Ryan's 1-3 game against Oakland against him way more.
He was 1-8 in those two games, and a combined 31-6 in his other 14 regular season games. He was also 6-3 in the playoffs against two great defenses, which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.
A slight improvement and the elimination of a couple of bad games, and I think another step forward with a 35-10 season is well within reach. I know some people will never change their "elite" list, and I don't personally care for it, but calling him anything but a top 5 QB after next season will be a mistake. I for one think he's there right now.
I know this post is long enough, but all you have to do to talk up Cam Newton is take his stats over the last 8 games and double them. 26-8 TDs-Ints, over 3900 yards, and another almost 800 yards and 8 TDs on the ground. All he'd have to do is improve on his 58% passing and he's basically elite! They just have to get him someone else to pass to, preferably before Steve Smith's legs fall off.
I think my biggest problem with Ryan is just that I want to see the jumps sustained. I think Roddy White is overrated and Julio Jones is not exactly out there catching 1500 yards or anything, so I am not saying we have to hold either of them against Ryan. You bring up Aaron Rodgers, but Rodgers has thrown less times every season while putting up gobs more touchdowns and interceptions. Brady threw 600 times once from 2001-2010. I mean for me I think you just have to in your mind reduce Ryan's statistics by 10% if you want to compare to past standards of what elite was (33+ TD every year with something like 17- INT was about the starting line, throw up 4000 yards and complete 63-65%), so Ryan's 32/14 this season was really more like a 29/12-13. That is a solid ass performance and he definitely might have already turned the corner, it is the type of thing you can talk and talk and talk about but no one really knows. No one is trying to take away from him that has a brain, although plenty of people are all LOL OLLOLOL DOESN'T EVER WIN NOT GOOD. The problem is that Matthew Stafford threw for 41 TD 16 INT with Calvin Johnson constantly catching everything for touchdowns, then the next season threw 70 more times and went for...20 TD 17 INT. You reallyyyyy have to take a broad minded, multi-year look at statistics now to try to figure out what is going on, not take out 2-3 games or just look at 8 games ;_; or alternately you can just guess and fanboy xD probably almost as solid a way to guess the future than anything else in the "everyone passing 600 times a season" league we have now.
Guys definitely take seasons to evolve into something better. I have no problem with anyone who wants to peg Matt Ryan #5 and assume he is going to be a QB of the future. Based on my own biases I think 1-2 of the running guys will still become a better dude, I would definitely have future elite qb Ryan than future elite Luck though.
P.S. Maybe the greatest thing ever is that people hold against Rodgers he does not pass 600 times a season? Must mean he is a system qb who cannot really throw, all the statistics are fake!!!!
Guys definitely take seasons to evolve into something better. I have no problem with anyone who wants to peg Matt Ryan #5 and assume he is going to be a QB of the future. Based on my own biases I think 1-2 of the running guys will still become a better dude, I would definitely have future elite qb Ryan than future elite Luck though.
P.S. Maybe the greatest thing ever is that people hold against Rodgers he does not pass 600 times a season? Must mean he is a system qb who cannot really throw, all the statistics are fake!!!!
TheValkyries
proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I had literally forgotten that Tim Tebow is a Patriot for a good week or so there.
Having remembered, I've now entered a temporary depression.
Having remembered, I've now entered a temporary depression.
Let's face it Osi/Tuck really deserved the first Super Bowl MVP. I mean really using Super Bowl MVPs as an argument for a quarterback when they're basically guaranteed to get it if their team wins...
I really want him to hit a brick wall, literally, because I loathe Cam Newton as a human being.
Oh my God. Jaworski ranked Drew Brees sixth.
Wait, sixth? But who's ahead of him? Rodgers and Brady, yeah. Peyton's gotta be there too, and he hasn't called Matt Ryan's name either. That's, uh, one, two, three, four?
So who rounds out Wrong Jaworski's top five?
Joe Fucking Flacco, who has never thrown for 4000 yards in his life! Joe Fucking Flacco, who has posted a 90 passer rating once in his entire career! Joe Fucking Flacco, who is only even in the Top 10 conversation because of two great playoff games (@ Denver and the Super Bowl).
The amount of disrespect Jaworski is showing Drew Brees by saying he is worse than Joe Flukeo is unimaginable. Flacco is worse than Schaub. And Luck. And RG3. I could buy an argument for Flacco in the top 10, but that's it. He is clutch and has a big arm, but that's about it.
Top five bahahahahahahahaha
Wait, sixth? But who's ahead of him? Rodgers and Brady, yeah. Peyton's gotta be there too, and he hasn't called Matt Ryan's name either. That's, uh, one, two, three, four?
So who rounds out Wrong Jaworski's top five?
Joe Fucking Flacco, who has never thrown for 4000 yards in his life! Joe Fucking Flacco, who has posted a 90 passer rating once in his entire career! Joe Fucking Flacco, who is only even in the Top 10 conversation because of two great playoff games (@ Denver and the Super Bowl).
The amount of disrespect Jaworski is showing Drew Brees by saying he is worse than Joe Flukeo is unimaginable. Flacco is worse than Schaub. And Luck. And RG3. I could buy an argument for Flacco in the top 10, but that's it. He is clutch and has a big arm, but that's about it.
Top five bahahahahahahahaha
have you actually watched schaub play? the dudes straight garbage, texans aren't a threat at all until they find someone serviceable to replace him. flaccos way better than him.
also sources inside the pats were saying tebow is proly gonna get cut, i doubt there's any room for him, especially with the higher demand for skill position players now and the pats always going 2 qb... i'd be shocked tebow is on the roster
thinking eli manning is a top 10 qb is laughable, he's below romo. list of qbs id take over eli without a question:
the big 4
ryan
rg3
newton
wilson
kaepernick
luck
big ben if healthy
also sources inside the pats were saying tebow is proly gonna get cut, i doubt there's any room for him, especially with the higher demand for skill position players now and the pats always going 2 qb... i'd be shocked tebow is on the roster
thinking eli manning is a top 10 qb is laughable, he's below romo. list of qbs id take over eli without a question:
the big 4
ryan
rg3
newton
wilson
kaepernick
luck
big ben if healthy
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