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Other The official pokemon top 10s! [CHECK POST 240]
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
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Most ice type moves are non-STAB and SpDef Breloom eats them up and responds with a Leech Seed (you can win 1v1 vs LO Thundurus pretty easily). It can even win vs SpDef Heatran if you catch him with a Leech Seed on the switch. Of course, Latis, Talonflame and most physical attackers just dump on it but it's pretty nice for taking Scalds and using Spore. The major problem more than its typing is that you will be spamming Protect which leads to free switches
It's not a great defensive mon by any means but it can stall/check a decent number of things. I'll agree that it probably won't get votes, so I'm not for or against allowing it just thought I'd leave my two cents
It's not a great defensive mon by any means but it can stall/check a decent number of things. I'll agree that it probably won't get votes, so I'm not for or against allowing it just thought I'd leave my two cents
I'm not exactly too concerned with what's allowed to be perfectly honest cause the terms used here are extremely generic with half the pages trying to sort out definitions and concepts that half the people don't understand or just sets cherry picked to handle certain things that are practically unviable to begin with. Feel free to suggest and accept whatever you'd like but let's not make the pages full of arguments over stuff really unviable to begin with. Use some common sense.
Jernmax, can have a rule to not critizize other people's choices on this thread. Just Pm the builder to make suggestions, as useless one liners like "slash toxic in the last slot" just clutters the thread with useless arguments and suggestions. If your posting here, it should be to reserve a Pokemon, make a nomination, or vote (or make a request, like this one).
If the OP proves Breloom viabillity i'll add it. For the moment it's black listed. But hey, there's a ton more stall mons to add, especially the megas. Keep 'em coming
Well tbh we should be trying to post Pokemon and then discuss about them, and by doing this, we'll be cutting down on discussion. Also "slash toxic in the last slot" isn't really useless, since it's constructive criticism and can help newer players learn about things.
Also Jernmax I doubt breloom will ever be viable as a stall mon :/
Yes, it's constructive criticism, but unless your making a legitement post, their is really no reason to just make one liner "slash toxic on the last slot" and leave it like that.
Discussion is fine, but super short posts telling You to make one small change just clutters the thread. If have something like that to mention, simply pm the builder rather then writing a one liner (which the forum rules demotes).
As a suggestion, could the next topics be a bit more specific? With such a broad topic like "Stallmons", it is going to be very difficult to vote. The previous topic was perfect since there aren't so many stallbreakers and you can vote based on how well they break stall. In other words, they all have the same role pretty much. However, in stall, each pokemon have their own distinct roles, such as physical wall, special wall, hazard clearer, wish passer etc. It is literally impossible to compare things like Chansey to Skarmory. I know someone else made this some suggestion, but I think it warrants further discussion.
As it's caused much controversy, i'll delete my Breloom post. I'll cook up something else in a bit!
Discussion: How do you feel about potentially switching up the format where I suggest 10-15 pokemon inside of a certain and we discuss which one is better for that weeks role. It will create more discussion and hopefully not leave this thread so... lacking.
Thoughs?
Thoughs?
I think the idea of making the topics narrower is a good one. Perhaps rather than voting we should discuss each nomination in turn to decide where/ if it sits in the top 10, also if we accepted somewhere between 11-15 nominations for each topic that gives us some room for discussion.
There's still a ton more walls/stall mons to nominate for this week. Especially mega pokemon, there's a plethora of them.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake/Flareblitz/Fire punch
- Dragon Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
Speed evs let you outspeed bisharp, adamant gyarados, and other base 70s with max speed. hp for bulk. 248 gives you an odd number for SR. Rest in SPD because this set mainly checks Special attackers.
roost for recovery. Wisp burns things ie lot of common switch ins: lando, altaria, azumarill, tyranitar etc... Dragon claw stab. EQ lets you beat heatran, but flare blitz also acceptable.
Calcs:
252 Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 117-138 (32.5 - 38.4%)
252 Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 94-112 (26.1 - 31.1%)
0 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 180-214 (66.1 - 78.6%)
0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 432-510 (158.8 - 187.5%)
0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 270-320 (99.2 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
EQ doesn't ohko, but usually you just spam wisp and roost.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Taunt / Roar
- Stealth Rock
Although Heatran's typing leaves it open to common Ground, Water and Fighting type moves, it does have lots of resistances and an immunity to Fire, thanks to it's ability Flash Fire. It's a great check to lots of mons like Zard Y, MGarde, Talonflame, Clefable, Zard X without EQ, Suicune etc. Speed EVs can creep mega venu and suicune, while the rest is dumped into bulk. 248 HP EVs lessens hazards damage. Lava Plume has a nifty burn chance, Toxic can cripple mons like Zard Y and X, and Talonflame. Taunt lets you shut down mons like SD Talonflame and Clefable, but roar can be used to phaze them out. Heatran is a very effective SR user thanks to it's good defensive typing and decent bulk.
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I present, Special Wall Sylveon!
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
This set takes on Sylveon's already potent Special Defense and pours all your points into making it even heavier. Alternatively you can choose to pour into Defense and have a Bold nature for a more even defensive spread.
Wish is the recovery move on this set, which can be passed to teammates as well. So Sylveon can support the team as well as keep itself in play.
Protect gives space for your leftovers and Wish recovery.
Calm Mind allows you to boost Sylveons Special Defense even higher, as well as providing a helpful boost to your Special attack to give Sylveon some offensive prescence.
Hyper Voice is the obligatory STAB which benefits from Pixiliate and works off your CM boosts/ Sylveon's workable Special Attack.
The big benefit for Sylveon over Walls such as Chansey are that it isn't entirely incapacitated by Prankster Sableye with Taunt, and can KO back with Hyper Voice, as per the calc shown below.
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 386-456 (126.9 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Your biggest problem here is Heatran though, as it's Fire/Steel typing gives it a double resist to Hyper Voice. Also, Sylveon's base 65 defense means you're leaving it open to Physical assaults from Steel and Poison moves, as well as taking a large dent from neutral physical sweepers and wallbreakers.
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Yeah dude, go for it. Just make sure it's 24 hours apart, up until the final hour. Then you can post as many you want, as quickly as you want.
Surprised no one did this one yet.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Blissey is one of the best special walls and clerics in OU. Because of Blissey's great HP and Special Defense, there are few special attackers that can break through it. With Natural Cure Blissey is also a great status absorber, and its amazing HP makes it one of the the best Wish passers in the game. Since Blissey evolves from a gen 1 Pokemon its movepool is also terrific, with a lot of moves you could use over the standard cleric set above, such as Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Heal Bell, and even Healing Wish if you're into that. Blissey is very passive, however, so it can end up just being set up fodder, which is why some people don't like using it. Blissey also faces a lot of competion from its its little sister Chansey, which has more physical and special bulk due to Eviolite but a Knock Off weakness which makes it worse at taking on Landorus-I, is a free switch-in for Gengar if using Seismic Toss, and kills momentum so it only fits on stall teams. That said, Blissey is definitely worth using over Chansey because of its better offensive presence making it better able to take on Landorus-I and Gengar, and is a great choice for all stall teams.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Blissey is one of the best special walls and clerics in OU. Because of Blissey's great HP and Special Defense, there are few special attackers that can break through it. With Natural Cure Blissey is also a great status absorber, and its amazing HP makes it one of the the best Wish passers in the game. Since Blissey evolves from a gen 1 Pokemon its movepool is also terrific, with a lot of moves you could use over the standard cleric set above, such as Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Heal Bell, and even Healing Wish if you're into that. Blissey is very passive, however, so it can end up just being set up fodder, which is why some people don't like using it. Blissey also faces a lot of competion from its its little sister Chansey, which has more physical and special bulk due to Eviolite but a Knock Off weakness which makes it worse at taking on Landorus-I, is a free switch-in for Gengar if using Seismic Toss, and kills momentum so it only fits on stall teams. That said, Blissey is definitely worth using over Chansey because of its better offensive presence making it better able to take on Landorus-I and Gengar, and is a great choice for all stall teams.
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Literally the first post xD Blissey is open and it has the niche of taking on GengarSurprised no one did this one yet.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
Chansey is without doubt the best special wall and cleric in OU. Because of Chansey's great HP and Special Defense, there are few special attackers that can break through it. The Eviolite coupled with full Defense investment makes Chansey capable of taking physical hits as well. For example, it gets 3HKOed by Garchomp's Outrage. With Natural Cure Chansey is also a great status absorber, and its amazing HP makes it the best Wish passer in the game. Since Chansey is a gen 1 Pokemon its movepool is also terrific, with a lot of moves you could use over the standard cleric set above, such as Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, Heal Bell, and even Healing Wish if you're into that. Chansey is extremely passive, however, so it can end up just being set up fodder, which is why some people don't like using it. It also has a Knock Off weakness, is a free switch-in for Gengar if not running Thunder Wave, and kills all momentum so it only fits on stall teams. That said, Chansey is an amazing Pokemon and a great choice for all stall teams.
Lol how did I miss that. Editing to Blissey now.
Reserving Doublade.
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Sassy
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Sacred Sword / Pursuit
Eviolite Doublade counters Mega Gardevoir, as well as other wallbreakers such as Mega Heracross and Earthquake-lacking variants of Mega Metagross and Mega Pinsir (Note that Doublade is also able to check Fighting types such as Hawlucha, Terrakion and Breloom easily) . Gyro Ball is a strong STAB move for Doublade while Toxic is used to hit Talonflame, Charizard and bulky Waters who love switching into Doublade. Rest is it's only method of recovery so using it together with Wish support is recommended. The last slot is up to preference; Sleep Talk so you don't become set-up bait, Sacred Sword to not get walled by Bisharp and Heatran while Pursuit is used to trap Lati@s. When using Doublade, one needs to be carry checks for Landorus, Keldeo and Mega Charizard X who sets up on it no matter what.
Sadly, Doublade loses to Mega Lopunny 1 on 1 (stupid Scrappy) but it can survive 1 High Jump Kick and hit back for 67+ %
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Sassy
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Sacred Sword / Pursuit
Eviolite Doublade counters Mega Gardevoir, as well as other wallbreakers such as Mega Heracross and Earthquake-lacking variants of Mega Metagross and Mega Pinsir (Note that Doublade is also able to check Fighting types such as Hawlucha, Terrakion and Breloom easily) . Gyro Ball is a strong STAB move for Doublade while Toxic is used to hit Talonflame, Charizard and bulky Waters who love switching into Doublade. Rest is it's only method of recovery so using it together with Wish support is recommended. The last slot is up to preference; Sleep Talk so you don't become set-up bait, Sacred Sword to not get walled by Bisharp and Heatran while Pursuit is used to trap Lati@s. When using Doublade, one needs to be carry checks for Landorus, Keldeo and Mega Charizard X who sets up on it no matter what.
Sadly, Doublade loses to Mega Lopunny 1 on 1 (stupid Scrappy) but it can survive 1 High Jump Kick and hit back for 67+ %
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SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Rock-Move Hippowdon is an interesting pokemon on stall. Sand Stream makes it easier to wear down walls. Because of Stone Edge, Hippowdon can get past Anti-Stallonflame, Mega Pinsir and non-mega zard-x (Zard-X which hasn't mega'd yet to avoid EQ I mean). Outside of these 3 threats to stall, it also beats stuff like Terrakion. It has many options like Whirlwind and Protect, but the main reason to use this set is because of the rock move which helps with Pinsir and Talonflame.
Calcs
0 Atk burned Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 210-248 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 272-320 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 218-258 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 126-148 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 164-192 (39 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 252-297 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (You beat Zard-X because of recoil + sand damage)
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 318-375 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%) -- 28.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can also go mixed defensive so you can beat LO Thundy and check Mega Diancie (countered if full SpD)
Already posted. I don't see how you weigh up the effort of writing all of that other than just checking if it's been posted. hehe
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Whirlwind
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Rock-Move Hippowdon is an interesting pokemon on stall. Sand Stream makes it easier to wear down walls. Because of Stone Edge, Hippowdon can get past Anti-Stallonflame, Mega Pinsir and non-mega zard-x (Zard-X which hasn't mega'd yet to avoid EQ I mean). Outside of these 3 threats to stall, it also beats stuff like Terrakion. It has many options like Whirlwind and Protect, but the main reason to use this set is because of the rock move which helps with Pinsir and Talonflame.
Calcs
0 Atk burned Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 210-248 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 272-320 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 218-258 (73.4 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 260-308 (80.4 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 126-148 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 164-192 (39 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 70-84 (16.6 - 20%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 252-297 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (You beat Zard-X because of recoil + sand damage)
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 318-375 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%) -- 28.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can also go mixed defensive so you can beat LO Thundy and check Mega Diancie (countered if full SpD)
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