The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

[Paltheos]

That quick sleep is what Scarfrai leads are handing on a thread with. Soon, people will abuse Lum Berry random things and end Darkrai's leading reign. I've started to do this with Lum Berry Scizor, which was/is pretty effective at decimating Darkrai leads (and has the added bonus of smacking Deoxys-A leads as long as they don't have Counter).

I've also encountered a few players clever enough to switch from his own Scarfrai to Wobbuffet "because it's that predictable". Personally though, I still use Scarfrai because I loathe Deoxys-s leads with a passion.

As for variety...uhhh...this isn't quite the most interesting topic to work with. Apparently the uber metagame suffers from people running the same sets over and over again it becomes ridiculous (Specs Kyogre and Scarf Palkia being the main ones), and thus reduces the amount variety that could be harnessed by some of these Pokemon's massive movepools. Sure they can be the best sets...but would it hurt to try something different? Because I'm certain they can't be the best set forever. So I'd like to redirect all of you who just skipped posts to read reachzero's post.

It's not one a metagame, just to clarify for people unfamiliar with the game. For stuff like Palkia though, there was a good time where you could just assume it was scarfed pretty much all the time and you'd be fine. Most pokes usually shuffle between only two or three sets (with some variation) a metagame, and they're usually identifiable pretty quickly. (On a miscellaneous note, I've felt Dialga is an exception to this rule. I've felt it runs a greater variety of sets per metagame than any of its peers. I don't have any proof; I'm going by the uncertainty I feel when it comes out)

This is a Palkia set I've been using with some great results

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Aqua Tail
- Spacial Rend
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

Nifty. On that note:

As darknessmalice mentioned, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia and Darkrai are the most common Pokemon in the uber metagame at the moment. For me, though, I haven't seen a lot of Rayquazas lately, and I don't know why. I'm just guessing that Rayquaza's main force is that it takes advantage of choiced moves and sets up, and if people are starting to be more cautious about it, Rayquaza's time to set up becomes more limited. That can be both good or bad. Good in the fact that the metagame's finally shifting, bad in the fact that I love Rayquaza and if he can't find time to set up I'm sad :(

As you know, I've been running Mixquaza the past month to great success. A simple Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Extremespeed/Outrage @standard spread messes shit up and is just a blast to use. That Palkia set looks pretty sweet though. Great for my purposes. ;)
(Ironically, Lugia is the only thing that walls both of them, I believe)
(PPS: I too love Ray. Might be my favorite uber.)

Rock Polish Groudons I see nowadays run a whole bunch of Speed. I don't know how much exactly, but they often outran my Giratina-O, who is uncomfortably sitting at 254 Speed.

Scarf Darkrai still outspeeds after a RP if they don't invest in speed.

At one point I got ticked off at a person whose Rayquaza survived my Palkia's Spacial Rend.

That shouldn't be possible without nearly maxing out a defensive stat (yes, I just ran the calc; also, "even then", the odds are slim), so that's pretty understandable lol.

More I want to say, but I've gotta go for now.

 

[Fabbles]

I guess I feel obligated to comment since I've stuck with Ubers since the ladder on Official and have had some great success.

Ubers, although not a metagame with the most diverse pokemon, has the most diverse teams and strategies. It is extremely rare in Ubers to find two people using mirror images of teams, which I find leads more to the "fun" factor.

I've probably used almost every single set imaginable for nearly all pokemon that can be competitive in Ubers. I love the creativity that defines the metagame. Sure, Specs Kyogre is very common and still very dominant, but things such as Anti-Lead Dialga and Mix Palkia and Rayquaza (All of which I've been using for the past year and half) make Ubers what it is for all those who play. Although someone earlier said that it was very hard to win in Ubers with a team slapped together with 6 pokemon, I must disagree. Ubers is such a high risk and reward metagame that if you can cause a single misplay by your opponent, sweeps are easily conceivable.

Sadly, I am finding that Ubers is slowly moving towards a faster pace every month. In the beginning, teams with 6 sweepers were fairly non-existent. I remember players such as Maniclyrasist and Train Man along with myself using highly defensive teams with much success. I am not saying that Stall can't be successful now, but I feel as if players are sticking more with the common pokes such as Scarf Darkrai and Scarf Palkia instead of trying out the highly successful and fun sets such as Mix Palkia or SD Darkrai. Hopefully, players who are getting into Ubers will find that they CAN use that Weavile or Bronzong and win consistently.

My message to all Uber players or those who want to get into Ubers is simply: Be creative while remaining competitive and you'll have great success in Ubers. Don't dismiss those insanely powerful creations such as Specs Kyogre, but don't ignore those useful Pokemon such as Anti-Lead Weavile, too.

I'm happy to see that many sets that I used in the very beginnings of D/P, such as SD T-Wave Groudon, have now become common. Hopefully players will continue to find useful sets and be able to use them competitively!

I hope Ubers will grow and thrive into a common metagame for many users on Shoddy!

One last note: I feel that Ubers has always been centralized around Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Darkrai, and formerly Deoxys-A. Even though some members like Dialga and Palkia may have higher usage, I feel that this is due the other Ubers being used to account for those 4 threats I mentioned. If you build a team with those 4 pokemon in mind, then I feel that the team should perform well almost instantly.

 

[Darkmalice]

The uber metagame unfortunately hasn't moved a whole lot during the past few months, but I can smell progress. The once famed Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A leads are shooting downwards at meteor like speed, and are now replaced by Scarf Darkrai leads. However, as great as it is at the moment, it's holding on by a single thread. Its previous purpose was to destroy the Deoxys leads, which are vanishing, and now its main purpose as a lead now is to induce a quick sleep.

That quick sleep is what Scarfrai leads are handing on a thread with. Soon, people will abuse Lum Berry random things and end Darkrai's leading reign. I've started to do this with Lum Berry Scizor, which was/is pretty effective at decimating Darkrai leads (and has the added bonus of smacking Deoxys-A leads as long as they don't have Counter).

I agree with this entirely. Scarf Darkrai leads have demolished Deoxys leads. Lum Berry will become more popular; Scizor is becoming a more popular lead, but sadly, it fails against many other leads, most notably Kyogre. And thanks to Darkrai's dam high speed, only a poke with at least 127 base speed can outrun it. It led me to creating a Mewtwo Scarf Lead that can smash Scarf Darkrai (and Deoxys as well).

 

[Train Man]

The variety and movesets available for Ubers is what gives the metagame such diversity. Even if there are only so many sets for each Uber listed in the Analysises (while still alot), by tweaking a moveset or an EV spread, you can easily confuse people who think they have uncovered your set.

Not to mention all the niches OU pokemon can wriggle into, adding to that idea of surprise.

For example, Gengar despite popular theory that it is heavily overshadowed by Mewtwo and Darkrai is in fact a very potent threat in Ubers. It's typing perfectly complements Dialga as it is immune to Fighting and Ground. STAB Shadow Ball works terrifically in a metagame dominated by Psychic Types.

As most Latias and Lugia do not invest max Speed EVs, Gengar will almost always outpace these guys and more. It's ghost-typing also makes it a good revenge-killer against SD Ray as well as 'walling' the common WishBliss set, that utilises SToss and Toxic. And with options like Explosion and HP Fire, it just packs more of a surprise, even those who run to their Scizors and Blisseys can be in for a little hurt.

Also, i'm finding the position of Bulky Grass type (Celebi and Shaymin) are far more effective than in other tiers (except for maybe UU with the Vileplume and whatnot). Their 5 weaknesses, Ice, Fire, Bug, Poision and Flying are actually alot easier to deal with. Kyogre or Manaphy can cover Ice/Fire while Bug can be dealt with the plethora of Dragon-types. Poision and Flying see practically no game time, lol.

On the other hand, key resistances to Water, Ground and Electric give them the niche to counter the likes of Kyogre and Groudon.


But i'm not saying you should be using OU pokes for the sake of it, and especially not to boast and say, "I beat you and I wasn't even using all UBERS". OU Pokes are a great way to explore and exploit certain weaknesses of Ubers and as they are commonly not seen, most opponents may assume a simple OU Set instead of your own custom-tuned set, solely for Ubers. But you have to make sure that even without the element of Surprise, you can still pose a threat using a combination of Prediction and Ability.

 

[Jibaku]

(Ironically, Lugia is the only thing that walls both of them, I believe)

Ehh...not exactly :D...if there's Stealth Rock and Lugia's slower (and apparently people only run to 319 nowadays, forgetting about Garchomp).

With SR down, I believe Aqua Tail 2HKOes 252 HP / 4 Def Bold Lugia in the rain.

 

[never_again]

But i'm not saying you should be using OU pokes for the sake of it, and especially not to boast and say, "I beat you and I wasn't even using all UBERS". OU Pokes are a great way to explore and exploit certain weaknesses of Ubers and as they are commonly not seen, most opponents may assume a simple OU Set instead of your own custom-tuned set, solely for Ubers. But you have to make sure that even without the element of Surprise, you can still pose a threat using a combination of Prediction and Ability.

heheh
I recall one team I made for the hell of it
it was, if I recall: Lead DeoS, Scarf Gengar, Scarf TTar, Scarf Metagross, Scarf Garchomp, and Blissey.

It actually worked surprisingly well, I beat some people with it, and lost 0-1 to a respected player.

But your completely right, OU Pokemon are completely viable in Ubers, as I can only hope to incorporate Pokemon like Shiftry and Primeape in Ubers like Articanus did against me.

 

[faint]

But your completely right, OU Pokemon are completely viable in Ubers, as I can only hope to incorporate Pokemon like Shiftry and Primeape in Ubers like Articanus did against me.

Just mentioning that if anyone would like an example of this they should take a look at this http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45066

It's a perfect example of how any tier Pokemon can do well in Ubers. It also uses Primeape which as of now is one of the few Pokemon capable of stopping ScarfRai right in its tracks.

 

[Kir]

Wtf?

Anyways what exactly is this thread trying to explain/show?

It is an attempt to get more people playing the uber metagame. As I said in the OP, ubers have been somewhat forgotten with the release of Platinum.

I'm basically trying to highlight the fun things about ubers, so more people will at least give it a shot. Sometime soon I plan on editing the OP with some things that have been mentioned by others that I forgot/wasn't fully aware of. I'm still pretty new to ubers too, though I will say I'm doing really well so far xD.

Thanks for all of the good comments.

 

[ChiboSempai]

iv always found it sort of interesting to try out OU pokemon in a Uber environment, seeing how well you can stack up to them. Then again it is pretty fun to finally be able to use pokemon like Darkrai and such. I've never really tried ubers that much, but perhaps il give it a shot.

 

[SkarmBlissFTW]

Uhm, what? I'd edit my post and sig if I'd be you...

Anyway I've always found the uber metagame to be quite appealing. I guess the main reason why I play it is so can use those badass legendary beasts (Kyogre, Deoxys, you know the drift).

 

[never_again]

This is a Palkia set I've been using with some great results

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Aqua Tail
- Spacial Rend
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

Alright apparently due to the commoness of Scarf Palkia people start sending in their Blisseys to wall the living daylight out of it. That or some Steel to take Spacial Rends. This set says no.

With only 6 Special Attack EVs, coupled with Lustrous Orb, Spacial Rend coming from this Palkia will appear to do the same amount of damage as a standard Scarfkia's Spacial Rend, and thus often fakes people out into thinking that it is a Scarfer. Whatever they send in to take the Spacial Rend can eat a 339 Atk Lustrous Orb Aqua Tail in the rain.

BTW Jibs, w/o Surf or Draco Meteor, how does that Palkia fare against the likes of Mewtwo and Darkrai.
Under the rain, Aqua Tail probably KOs Darkrai but what about Mewtwo?

 

[Matthew]

Mewtwo isn't that bulky either, it's probably OHKO'd by Aqua tail as well.

Calm Mind Ogre seems to be making a huge impact in the game now a days, along with BU Dialga.

um...

Specs Dialga is actually a very over looked pokemon, especially since he can OHKO the majority of Ubers besides Blissey and Tyranitar

Dialga @ Choice Specs
Modest nature
252 SpAtk / 220 HP / 36 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse / Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Aura Sphere

there isn't anything that will survive a full powered Draco Meteor, blissey should take 30-40% damage from it.

 

[SkarmBlissFTW]

Specs Kyogre 1 or 2HKOs everything in the game, so I'd rather use that. Blissey takes about 60 % from Modest Water Spout.

 

[AbsolDeath]

Haha Ubers, my favorite tier. Not many people play this tier at all, agreeing with Mind about how darn long it takes to find a battle. And sadly agreeing with Jibaku here in saying that the metagame has been the same for a few months. What would help is when high ranked people played with a different style because nubs and just average players will look and be like "hey look at that, he's using a stall team in ubers. Perhaps I should try that." And bam, we could have a revolution in the Uber metagame.

Sweet thread 8 Ball. :)

 

[Jibaku]

Blissey takes about 60 % from Modest Water Spout.

Cool...but after it loses 25% or so Kyogre's Spout won't 2HKO Bliss. Specs Dialga is still pretty beastly because while people centralize their thoughts on Specs Ogre (Palkia, Latias), this stuff is forgotten and get a kill. Like the opponent can bring in Groudon and it dies to Meteor. One thing that could possibly give it away is when it swaps in and there's no recovery, but still. (PS: You can try to take advantage of this as well)

Mewtwo is very sadly not OHKOed by Aqua Tail. However, it does have a slight chance of being OHKOed (Read: very small) by Aqua Tail after SR. However, chances are greatly in Palkia's favor if Mewtwo's life Orbed.

 

[Flying Machine]

Thanks to everyone in this thread, new people start using things described above, which helped me further my CRE >:d j/k

anyway,

iv always found it sort of interesting to try out OU pokemon in a Uber environment, seeing how well you can stack up to them.

^ This is true since one guy used Articanus' angel, celebi, and other OUs and was able to stand up to uber threats. Celebi is also a great Darkrai sort of anti-lead, it can TWave Rai, without losing lefties recovery, because it can switch out of Dark Voids and eats a dark pulse pretty well too... ive found running 2 scarfers+1 steel wins you half the game with goood prediction, since only types i see now are dragon/fight/ground for attacks.
(and lugia isnt good anymore ;( )

 

[Matthew]

Parasect has found a nice space in my team

Parasect @ Focus Sash
Adamant Nature
252 Atk 252 HP 6 SpDef
Dry Skin
- X-Scissor
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Knock Off

He comes in on a Kyogre's Water Spout only to find out... nothing happened! It's Parasect, nothing bad can happen right? Wrong as soon as they go to a pokemon to counter your "threat" they're put to sleep. Then on the switch out of the sleeping pokemon, they get paralized. Top it off Knock off the paralized Pokemons item and switch out to maybe get a Kyogres Water Spout again! X-Scissor is a OHKO on Darkrai with Stealth Rock Support and no Leftovers recovery.
Damage: 91.13% - 107.09% for those who doubt me

 

[chuggaaconroy]

It does seem like it requires more strategy, but like there's much less options for strategy. Like, it is a lot more reliant on strategy, but there isn't a whole lot to choose from since how almost guaranteed it is to meet Darkrai in this metagame as a lead.

On a bit of an unrelated note, I find it funny how a little over a year ago when I lurked around here, I remember seeing so many people saying Garchomp sucks in Ubers... Yeah, if only we could have shown them the arguments of today.

 

[Kittymew]

Parasect has found a nice space in my team

Parasect @ Focus Sash
Adamant Nature
252 Atk 252 HP 6 SpDef
Dry Skin
- X-Scissor
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Knock Off

He comes in on a Kyogre's Water Spout only to find out... nothing happened! It's Parasect, nothing bad can happen right? Wrong as soon as they go to a pokemon to counter your "threat" they're put to sleep. Then on the switch out of the sleeping pokemon, they get paralized. Top it off Knock off the paralized Pokemons item and switch out to maybe get a Kyogres Water Spout again! X-Scissor is a OHKO on Darkrai with Stealth Rock Support and no Leftovers recovery

This is a nice set; I've been running a similar one on Tangrowth, though Dry Skin definitely helps in Ubers sometimes. I'm surprised it has the firepower to accomplish what it needs though. I think it relies on two things:

1) them not countering it with groudon
2) them switching out their sleeping pokemon

Honestly, if I switched Groudon into Parasect and got Spored, I'd have to weigh staying in vs switching something into a possible stun spore, or a possible double-switch.

 

[Matthew]

Primeape @ Choice Scarf
Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 152 Spe / 106 HP
Vital Spirit
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Punishment
- U-Turn
- Ice Punch

With the given EV's Primeape out speeds Max speed Mewtwo along with Max speed Darkrai. U-Turn is going to be the selling point of this pokemon, as you can just U-Turn to a switch while giving Darkrai hell since you cannot be put to sleep. Close Combat is for late game, and Ice Punch I guess would be for Rayquaza(lol). Stone Edge is to hit Ho-Oh and Lugia for SE damage. Punishment can be used if you want to counter CM Mewtwo or CM Lugia. Other than that that;s about it

 

[Articanus]

lol I used to run Parasect in ubers. something like

Parasect @ Leftovers
Dry Skin: Adamant
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Sp. Defense
Spore
X-Scissor
Substitute
Swords Dance

I would laugh at Kyogres that didn't have Ice Beam =D

 

[Garganator]

I love to play ubers. But if you looks for interesting Water Absorber my proposition is... Quagsire. His really solid typing, which is even better with Water Immunity gives him many opportunities to switch on and do his job.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/78 SpD
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch / Earthquake / Ice Punch
~ Encore
~ Toxic

Those EVs almost guarantee, that Lugia won't break your sub with Ice Beam is she doesn't invest any EVs in SpA. But if you think that you need a bit more EVs in defences, go on. Max Attack help you in hurting some threats. Focus Punch for Blissey, Earthquake for solid STAB. Ice Punch for stall war against Lugia and Toxic is the most important for throwing status and cripple many switches. If you think that you don't need any Atk EVs, replace one move on Yawn, to force switches, especially if you have entry hazard on the field. Also Quagsire learns Encore, so it can Sub Up, Encore attack and help your deadly sweeper to switch in and start his sweep. To tell the truth I need to test it, but in theory it's quite interesting.

 

[Zoro]

I do have a question ( if it didnt get answered before ).

Is there any reliable way to counter this uber team ( dunno how its called, sth with Yu-Gi-Oh as I remember )

Suicide Lead Deo-E
Double Screen Zong
Double Screen Mewtwo
SD + RP + BP Mew
Groudon
sth else


I see no way in countering this team ( I've failed to do so ) so I hope there is some help =S

 

[Matthew]

Using a Scarf Darkrai lead will stop the Deoxy-E lead
Then Specs Kyogre will OHKO Bronzong through screens, as with Mewtwo.
It will 2HKO or close to OHKO the Mew and well severly damage the Goudon switch in. You then can switch to a pokemon to sacrifice go to Darkrai and Trick your Choice Scarf to him.

 

[Bourbon]

oh wow, with Dry Skin and leftovers, parasect would be recovering 18% a turn, that's pretty cool. Can it survive any other weaker uber attacks? It'd pretty much be at or near full health all the time thanks to the rain and whatnot.