Maybe on Blissey you get a 2HKO, but I don't even use that much of a physically defensive spread on Chansey and Thundurus's superpower only does around 50%, unless you get crits, that's not a 2HKO.
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Thundurus-T
- Thread starter Afti
- Start date
NP Thundurus-T is indeed a great Wall breaker. I've been using:
Thundurus-T@Lum Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
Evs: 4Hp/252 Sp.Atk/252Spd
-Nasty plot
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power[Ice]
it's been one of the sweepers of my team. However the Speed loss is an issue. and Focus Sashe'd Mamoswines hinder it. But usually I leave mamo to something else on the Team.
Thundurus-T@Lum Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
Evs: 4Hp/252 Sp.Atk/252Spd
-Nasty plot
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power[Ice]
it's been one of the sweepers of my team. However the Speed loss is an issue. and Focus Sashe'd Mamoswines hinder it. But usually I leave mamo to something else on the Team.
Honestly I don't think lum berry is worth it, I was running calc the other day, at first I beleived my Chansey could actually take a +2 focus blast, but then I realized that life orb allows a clean 2HKO. It may be a similar story for Blissey.
I've been running a team I playfully refer to as "Sundurus" which is abusing Taunt Lefties Thundurus to keep Rain teams on lock-down and bring in Ninetales at my own leisure.
That's one thing I really missed about Thundurus; his universal appeal regardless of weather and I'm glad that Thundurus-T still has that.
That's one thing I really missed about Thundurus; his universal appeal regardless of weather and I'm glad that Thundurus-T still has that.
Modest Thundurus is doing just great for me. Blissey just needs a little wear and tare and a few threats from Keldeo to nab it with Thundurus's Super power. Life orb or expert belt Thundurus in rain with a spinner could do a great deal of damage, but right now I'm using Leftovers for my Rock problem. Modest Thundurus OHKO's Scizor and Rotom-W (offensive) after rocks and sometimes before rocks depending on the set. Jirachi walls timid Thundurus T (no boosts) Pretty well, but I think Modest has just enough power to only be held back by Gastrodon and Blissey if you aren't using Nasty Plot or Life Orb. I am really liking Thundurus T's speed nerf, because now he will probably stay in OU! He's definitely easier to handle and can't abuse priority thunder wave, taunt, and sub. Modest Thundurus T's Hp ice 2hkos many threats and Ohkos Breloom, which will probably never be bulky again thanks to Technician Breloom.
Who needs Nastly Plot when you have so much freaking power from Modest under a sub, which isn't hard to get up! I also like it's look!
Who needs Nastly Plot when you have so much freaking power from Modest under a sub, which isn't hard to get up! I also like it's look!
So guys...
How are you dealing with screen+gorebyss+thundurus-t?
Quite scary, if you ask me
How are you dealing with screen+gorebyss+thundurus-t?
Deoxys-D @ Light Clay Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
Gorebyss (M) @ White Herb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Ice Beam
Thundurus-T (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash/Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Grass Knot
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
Gorebyss (M) @ White Herb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Surf
- Ice Beam
Thundurus-T (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 32 Atk / 224 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash/Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
- Grass Knot
Quite scary, if you ask me
Uhh...
+2 Focus Blast vs Chansey: 46.9% - 55.4% (It's a clean 2HKO with SR)
+2 Focus Blast vs Blissey: 61.3% - 72.3%
Lum Berry allows you to destroy Chansey and Blissey and not have to worry about Toxic abuse whatsoever.
The set that Exc4libur is using is really powerful.
I use a more specially defensive spread of 116 HP / 140 SpD calm
Still... (43.28 - 51.04%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Although that could be played around with considering I have a spinner and focus blast misses a good deal of the time, but with life orb, you could just guarantee it.
Still... (43.28 - 51.04%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Although that could be played around with considering I have a spinner and focus blast misses a good deal of the time, but with life orb, you could just guarantee it.
With Life Orb, you can pretty much defeat Thundurus-T with Blissey after a Toxic smart switching. Lum Berry means you'll have to rely on luck to win, and if the Thundurus-T user is "doing it right" he/she might not even need luck.
In short, Lum NP Thundurus-T robs banks, steals candy from children, lies and cheats, is just a very awesome pokemon in general.
In short, Lum NP Thundurus-T robs banks, steals candy from children, lies and cheats, is just a very awesome pokemon in general.
I'm running the exact same moveset except I'm running Hasty nature with Life orb. I might switch to naive considering I want to live priority. I don't recon the NP set is very, well. Put it this way, you won't have time to NP at times. I know someone who tried an NP set and couldn't set it up in 5 consecutive battles. And any choice set is way too restrictive for me. Though truth be told, I actually had focus blast the past few battles.
Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Superpower
Been using that on my Rain Offense team and it works like a charm, Clean OHKO on Ttar, 2HKos Blissey/Chansey.The other moves are typical of the man.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
NP isnt even needed a lot of the time, it is often just the icing on the cake
The sub nasty plot set has been working for me yeah agility is nice and all but i just love the sheer power this thing has after a nasty plot, thunder under rain boosted +2 KO's all non resistent threats barring chansey and blissey for me so far tho it takes out 60%, dont have the exact calcs but around that range with focus blast. heres the set i use on my rain team
Thundurus-T@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Evs: 252satk, 252spe
Move:
Substitute
Nasty plot
Hp Ice or focus blast
Thunder
Thundurus-T@Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Evs: 252satk, 252spe
Move:
Substitute
Nasty plot
Hp Ice or focus blast
Thunder
I've been running the agility set, and the amount of times I've swept opponents is amazing. And I would have had many more if it wasn't for focus miss. Only problem I have had is the lack of bulk, but the sheer power Thundurus-T possess more often than not makes up for that. Pair this thing up with his brother Tornadus-T and you have a extremely powerful offensive core.
IMO the scarf set it the best, as far as rain teams go, since in WIFI OU it can run volt switchh thunder hp ice and focus blast with 100% accuracy
a very good wifi ou pokemon
a very good wifi ou pokemon
WiFi OU is the same as regular OU. Focus Blast still has 70 accuracy.
Anyway, Agility Thundurus-T has been winning so many games for me. It's awesome for cleaning up and it can also just punch some holes when necessary.
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Agility
Runs enough Speed to outspeed Timid Heatran (and incidentally tie with Adamant base 90s) before a boost and Choice Scarf base 115s (and also tying with Scarf base 120s). So yeah, except for stuff like Scarf Dugtrio (half the time) and Scarf Aerodactyl (lol) it isn't getting outsped. The bulk can always go to something.
Anyway, Agility Thundurus-T has been winning so many games for me. It's awesome for cleaning up and it can also just punch some holes when necessary.
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Agility
Runs enough Speed to outspeed Timid Heatran (and incidentally tie with Adamant base 90s) before a boost and Choice Scarf base 115s (and also tying with Scarf base 120s). So yeah, except for stuff like Scarf Dugtrio (half the time) and Scarf Aerodactyl (lol) it isn't getting outsped. The bulk can always go to something.
After using Honko's nifty calculator for OU, I've been using this set:
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
Naive/Hasty
-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Superpower/Focus Blast
-Grass Knot
With this set only Jirachi, Latias, Pink blobs, Ferrothorn (Don't count Ferrothorn if you use Focus Blast) can be considered as viable counters. Even then, without recovery, Latias/Ferrothorn can't wander in on a HP Ice/Super Power more than once and Chansey/Blissey barely evades the 2HKO. Considering this, Scizor makes an excellent partner as he counters all of these threats, except Jirachi, while forming a very powerful Volt Turn duo. On top of that, his infamous Bullet Punch also helps in downing many of Thundy's revenge killers. Defensive Donphan plugs up the remaining holes by countering Jirachi and spinning/setting up Stealth Rocks. Just using a quickly slapped together team with this core has made laddering an easy ride. It's disgusting just how fast, versatile, and powerful this set is. (I've even seen this thing take an HP Ice from a Landurus-I after Rocks)
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
Naive/Hasty
-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Superpower/Focus Blast
-Grass Knot
With this set only Jirachi, Latias, Pink blobs, Ferrothorn (Don't count Ferrothorn if you use Focus Blast) can be considered as viable counters. Even then, without recovery, Latias/Ferrothorn can't wander in on a HP Ice/Super Power more than once and Chansey/Blissey barely evades the 2HKO. Considering this, Scizor makes an excellent partner as he counters all of these threats, except Jirachi, while forming a very powerful Volt Turn duo. On top of that, his infamous Bullet Punch also helps in downing many of Thundy's revenge killers. Defensive Donphan plugs up the remaining holes by countering Jirachi and spinning/setting up Stealth Rocks. Just using a quickly slapped together team with this core has made laddering an easy ride. It's disgusting just how fast, versatile, and powerful this set is. (I've even seen this thing take an HP Ice from a Landurus-I after Rocks)
Having your main STAB only at 70 Base Power is quite dissapointing. Taking an HP Ice from Landorus isn't that impressive considering it is an unSTABED 70 BP move coming from uninvested special attack. Chansey isn't going close to being 2hko'ed considering the attack drop.
The best way to use Thunderus is just to use that monstrous SpA attack stat and using his awesome STAB. Don't go mixed because that coverage only hits Blissey/Chansey which you can just smash through anyway. Consider this: a +2 Timid Thunderus with Life Orb has the ability to 2HKO Calm Chansey with Thunder after Stealth Rock.
So since you can bypass Chansey with Thunder, you can drop Focus Blast making room for the SubPlot set that was mentioned early. What I really like about SubPlot is that it bypasses priority and speed which (seems) Thunderus has issues with. To those who say SubPlot has coverage issues, you have the potential to get to +2 behind a Substitute no? Thunder has insane power behind a Substitute, just smash with your STAB's alone! This is with a Timid, +2, Life Orb Thunderus-T
Thunder vs Standard Ferrothorn: 204-240 (57.95 - 68.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thunder vs Standard (252 HP/252 Def) Calm Blissey: 387-456 (54.2 - 63.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thunder vs Standard (252 HP/252 Def) Calm Chansey: 322-379 (45.73 - 53.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Thunder vs Sp. Def Jirachi: 406-478 (100.49 - 118.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO (yeah don't rely on jirachi to check Thunderus)
Your best bet against this monster in OU if you don't have a Gastrodon is Tyranitar. Brings in Sand to mess with Thunder's accuracy and resists Hidden Power Ice. Have fun though with the Focus Blast miss chance of living.Thunder vs Sp. Def Ttar 399-469 (98.76 - 116.08%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with Rocks). Ninetales is in a similar boat with a 50% chance to live Thunder.
tl;dr Fuck coverage just use SubPlot smash with Thunder
It is disapointing but when you can 2HKO everything with the moveset listed why bother? Scizor is an excellent example of how a hard hitting utility outclasses brute force.
Honestly I can't remember the exact Chansey calc, I just remember Blissey was close to a 2HKO so I figured a Pursuit from Scizor would put an end to Chansey's possibility of walling.
Superpower isn't just for the blobs, there's Tyranitar and Sand Terrakion, too.
Although it is viable, the speed nerf has severly hurt Thundy's sweeping capabilities. There are just too many faster threats that making use of that Nasty Plot is difficult. You're better off being an offensive pivot that doesn't mind a switch out and can pretty much 2HKO the meta. Scizor takes care of the few counters a lot better than a Nasty Plot would.
Honestly I can't remember the exact Chansey calc, I just remember Blissey was close to a 2HKO so I figured a Pursuit from Scizor would put an end to Chansey's possibility of walling.
Superpower isn't just for the blobs, there's Tyranitar and Sand Terrakion, too.
Although it is viable, the speed nerf has severly hurt Thundy's sweeping capabilities. There are just too many faster threats that making use of that Nasty Plot is difficult. You're better off being an offensive pivot that doesn't mind a switch out and can pretty much 2HKO the meta. Scizor takes care of the few counters a lot better than a Nasty Plot would.
Because:
1. You have the capability to sweep, which you can't do with Volt Switch
2. You have the luxury of Substitute which bypasses Speed issues and more importantly priority
3. You aren't using a 70 BP move as your main STAB
4. You can actually beat Jirachi, Ferrothorn/Blissey (Superpower vs Focus Blast), and Chansey which your set can't.
Thunderus doesn't provide any utility other than switch initiative so I don't know where you get that from at all. The utility that Scizor provides that is unique powerful priority and strong Pursuit trapping (of course switch initiative). Considering that switch initiative can be provided by anything that slaps on U-turn/Volt-Switch, I would say the utility Thunderus provides (if any at all) is very weak.
That is why you use Substitute, to get past any speed/priority issues. It isn't just filler. No o.o , Thunderus-T is going to mind the switch out because Life Orb+SR is taking out a huge chunk of health. You will be switching out a lot because you are depending on Volt-Switch as your STAB move. Ok you use Rapid Spin, but now you are depending on your spinner to be able to use your main STAB move, which isn't good. With how easy it is to lay down SR and how hard it is to spin in an offensive meta, it isn't worth it.
Oh, sorry I just realized how unclear I was. I was talking about the choice of Volt Switch vs. Thunderbolt/Thunder not of the set as a whole. For the switching out part, I was talking about how SubPlot risks losing the boost it wasted a turn for when a faster threat comes in whereas LO Thundy has been dealing damage. So switching out for switching out, at least some dents have already been made. Anyways, that was just for clarification. I was thinking general situations and not realizing that in reality, anything slower gets beaten down by boosted Thunders (Including weather inducers) whereas anything faster isn't bulky enough to survive after breaking Thundy's sub. Thanks for the corrections, I'm going to go screw around with SubPlot until I get tired of seeing rain. So if I've got this right, what Thundy T lost in speed he gained with power. Allowing him to forgo the coverage move that Thundy-I needed, for Substitute which allows him to maintain the role of a deadly and difficult to revenge rain sweeper that other weather inducers fear.
Then again, he can only make one kill before a revenger or wheather inducer switches in cutting off his sweep (Unless you want to keep pushing your luck with a focus miss like Thunder). Which makes me wonder why not use agility over Substitute. Thundy-T isn't bulky enough for that sub to serve as anything other than an ease for prediction. By opting for agility, you can pervent any opportunity to revenge kill in exchange for just having to click the right boost on the switch in.
One last thing, the blobs still counter the set as they can tank one boosted Thunder and cripple with a Toxic.
Afterthought edit: Feorrothorn can do the same with leech seed if you choose Agility over Substitute. Is that why you prefer SubPlot?
After-afterthough edit: Modest Lum Double Dance Thundy-T sounds delicious.
Then again, he can only make one kill before a revenger or wheather inducer switches in cutting off his sweep (Unless you want to keep pushing your luck with a focus miss like Thunder). Which makes me wonder why not use agility over Substitute. Thundy-T isn't bulky enough for that sub to serve as anything other than an ease for prediction. By opting for agility, you can pervent any opportunity to revenge kill in exchange for just having to click the right boost on the switch in.
One last thing, the blobs still counter the set as they can tank one boosted Thunder and cripple with a Toxic.
Afterthought edit: Feorrothorn can do the same with leech seed if you choose Agility over Substitute. Is that why you prefer SubPlot?
After-afterthough edit: Modest Lum Double Dance Thundy-T sounds delicious.
I use a scarf set with 4 evs in attack and run superpower instead of focus miss just to destroy to fat blobs named blissey and chansey even though the nerfed attack isn't great for the set im running.
Now that I'm not on my DSi, I went ahead and ran the calcs myself and you messed up on Sp.Def Ttar. You forgot to factor in the Sandstream bringing the damage from Thunder to 65.59 - 77.47%, which is only a 2HKO. Mixed Ttar takes 68.81 - 81.43% and CB Ttar 96.84 - 114.21%. I'm not sure whether or not to call Ttar a counter because Sp.Def and Mixed don't run SE so they can't OHKO even after one turn of Sandstorm and Life Orb damage. You can try Thunderbolt over Thunder, but then you'll miss the 2HKO against Blissey/Chansey and Ferrothorn along with the 1HKO against Sp.Def Jirachi. Jolteon also only takes 112-133 (41.32 - 49.07%) from an unboosted HP Ice. (assuming you Subed on the switch) So I would count him as a solid counter too. His LO Hidden Power Ice will do 213-252 (71.23 - 84.28%) so after busting that Sub and tanking the Hidden Power, he can kill you off.
I've tried both the Scarf and Agility sets and both work well for what they're intended to do. The Scarf set is great at revenge killing many threats and can clean up with STAB Thunder(bolt) should electric resists be removed and/or weakened. The Agility set just destroys offensive teams without Mamoswine and the only way it seems to get stopped if Mamoswine isn't around is Focus Miss doing what it does best. Pink blobs can also give it major issues if they pack Toxic. Haven't tried any Nasty Plot variation yet, so I'll stop short of saying anything about something I have yet to try myself.
I tried NP, and it wasn't that good. I had issues setting up on stuff as even Forretress was doing 35% with Gyro Ball. Coupled with LO recoil and priority, it actually goes down much too fast. Also, HP Ice is actually weaker than a resisted Tbolt, so it's ridiculous to suggest HP Ice does 70-80% to a Ferrothorn. In fact, I COULDN'T set up on Ferrothorn without Focus Blast, as I was simply Gyro Balled to death. +6 Thunderbolt, unsuprisingly, can't even OHKO it.
In my opinion, Scarf was pretty underwhelming as well. Aside from sporting a fast Volt Switch, and outspeeding positive base 100s like Salamence, it really wasn't doing anything useful. It doesn't revenge Volc, for one, and HP Ice is way too damn weak unboosted. (HP Rock doesn't let you hit Gliscor or Land-T)
LO is probably by far the best set. Agility is devastating if your opponent doesn't have Mamo, and Sub is similarly hard to play around.
In my opinion, Scarf was pretty underwhelming as well. Aside from sporting a fast Volt Switch, and outspeeding positive base 100s like Salamence, it really wasn't doing anything useful. It doesn't revenge Volc, for one, and HP Ice is way too damn weak unboosted. (HP Rock doesn't let you hit Gliscor or Land-T)
LO is probably by far the best set. Agility is devastating if your opponent doesn't have Mamo, and Sub is similarly hard to play around.
Sandstream didn't do any calcs and just pulled numbers out of his ass unless he is referring to Focus Blast which is slashed with HP Ice (but that's not good). But you can beat Ferrothorn with Thunder. You don't set up on a wall, you set up on something you force out (such as Gliscor). I.E. Force Switch-->Sub-->Breaks Sub as you NP.