Topic of the Week #12 - Shielding Moves

[Laga]

This post will address how the lack of / nerf of gems and the offensive moves will affect the metagame,

I started off by thinking very negatively about not having gems, and I am still pretty bummed about not having my slap-on items. That aside, I actually think this whole gem hype is kind of a nostalgic thought process about thinking back to the good old kill or be killed mindset that was so omnipresent in gen V. I personally think the absence or potential nerf (30% instead of 50%) of gems could be a positive affect to the metagame, since it will encourage better teambuilding skills alongside the general nerf to offense.

Basically, teambuilding in gen 5 was just asking yourself a bunch of questions to end up at an item:

Is my Pokemon a supporter? yes = Sitrus Berry
Is my Pokemon an offensive supporter? yes = GEM (or in rare cases, Sitrus Berry)
Is my Pokemon a bulky attacker? yes = GEM
Can my offensive Pokemon take one or two neutral hits? yes = GEM (or LO sometimes)
Is my Pokemon a glass cannon? yes = Sash or Life Orb. Sometimes even GEM
Does my Pokemon use hit-and-run? yes = GEM

etc. etc. etc; gems were a complete binding point of teambuilding in gen 5, something that almost every Pokemon could use to "go big or and then go home". Now that they won't be playing such a big role anymore, we will obviously see more of Life Orb, Focus Sash, and even Choice items. I find myself particularly interested in Choice items, since they are the only items that can provide as good a boost as gems did, which means that literally nothing else will be able to fulfill all those awesome calcs we had with gems in gen 5. Life Orb and Sash are the no-brainers though, as they where like the next-most popular offensive items after gems in gen 5.

The point I am trying to explain (and clearly failing at) is that the absence of gems combined with the nerf to the most powerful offensive moves (120 BP -> 110 / 95 -> 90) might just go and influence the metagame to focus more on bulky offense with a bunch of supporters, obviously making games longer and more filled with prediction and teambuilding, thus ultimately making it more competitive. This is, of course, just a theory, but if I am right, I am definitely glad that gems where removed / maybe nerfed. I think we'll see more Sitrus Berries and Resistance Berries, and hopefully more Choice items to make games more unpredictable :)

 

[Ultimathunder]

I feel like the most important offensivee item- and most important item in general from last generation are the Gems. Having a 50% one time boost to an attck was great in a fast paced metagame like doubles. However, with their nerf and lack of availability, a major item in doubles is gone.
All the Pokemon that utilize gems well however, get 3 main alternatives- Life Orb, Type Resist Berries, and Plates.

Life Orb provides as much power as gems do now, and does it continuously, at the cost of 10% health per attack. This is good for fast, frail attackers who will die quickly anyway, and need all the power they can get. An example of this would be Greninja.

Type resist berries are for bulkier Pokemon who would appreciate the ability to take a super effective hit and retaliate. A nice example would be Hydreigon, who like holding Chople berry to take a fighting attack and retaliate.

Plates are for Pokemon who would like to either bluff items such as choice items, or for Pokemon who would like power similar to life orb but do not like the recoil.

Other good good items in doubles for more defensive Pokemon would be Sitrus berry, Mental herb, and in some cases leftovers.

 

[Nollan]

Basically, teambuilding in gen 5 was just asking yourself a bunch of questions to end up at an item:

Is my Pokemon a supporter? yes = Sitrus Berry
Is my Pokemon an offensive supporter? yes = GEM (or in rare cases, Sitrus Berry)
Is my Pokemon a bulky attacker? yes = GEM
Can my offensive Pokemon take one or two neutral hits? yes = GEM (or LO sometimes)
Is my Pokemon a glass cannon? yes = Sash or Life Orb. Sometimes even GEM
Does my Pokemon use hit-and-run? yes = GEM

etc. etc. etc; gems were a complete binding point of teambuilding in gen 5, something that almost every Pokemon could use to "go big or and then go home".

This is a bit much... Gems were certainly very popular, but nowhere near that popular in the 5th Generation. Bulky Attackers usually utilized Type-Resist Berries (see Chople TTar, Occa Metagross, Yache Garchomp, etc). And several Pokemon such as Heatran utilized Leftovers alongside Substitute. Not to mention Choice Scarf Tyranitar was a very popular set. Gems were really just the ultimate filler for when you weren't in any need of other items or wanted a ton of power (i.e. Latios used Dragon Gem for more power on Draco Meteor; Scizor often ran Steel Gem (sometimes Bug Gem) since Occa Berry only helped against weak Fire-type attacks and other than that it didn't really have any notable weaknesses defensively).

Other than that, I agree with Laga. With Gems currently out of the picture, the metagame has become a tad slower paced, as alongside several power nerfs on moves (130bp Draco Meteor, 110bp Blizzard, etc), it is easier overall to survive attacks in the metagame (until we discover that Mega Mawile and Mega Charizard Y hit so hard that they don't need items to kill things, but the metagame has generally slowed down somewhat).

I am interested to see how EV spreads will shift due to the lack of Gems and how this in return will affect item choices. For example, if people start to EV their bulky Rotom-W to survive a LO-boosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, then Specs Hydreigon might become somewhat popular since it can grab unexpected OHKOs/2HKOs (similar to Modest Latios last generation, though it wasn't incredibly popular it caught people off guard).

I feel that Draco Meteor abusers were the hardest hit by the loss of Gems. Draco Meteor used to outright OHKO many Pokemon, but with the Gem power nerf, that list has narrowed (though this is also due to Fairy-types and the nerf to Draco Meteor itself). They still have Life Orb, but some Dragon-types had enough bulk to feel hurt by the recoil like Hydreigon and Salamence (the latter thanks to Intimidate), further compounded by the fact that the Dragon-type has good resistances. This loss is more notable in the Pokebank metagame where Latios exists and the Dragon-type is better defensively (thank you Heatran, Jellicent, Thundurus, and Zapdos).

I can actually see a good number of Dragon-types (particularly Latios when it comes into play as Specs was a fairly viable item choice on it last generation) making use of Choice Specs for raw power. With Fairy-types around it will take good prediction to make use of Choice items on Dragon-types, though (otherwise they will probably flat-out fail).

 

[youngjake93]

This is a bit much... Gems were certainly very popular, but nowhere near that popular in the 5th Generation. Bulky Attackers usually utilized Type-Resist Berries (see Chople TTar, Occa Metagross, Yache Garchomp, etc). And several Pokemon such as Heatran utilized Leftovers alongside Substitute. Not to mention Choice Scarf Tyranitar was a very popular set. Gems were really just the ultimate filler for when you weren't in any need of other items or wanted a ton of power (i.e. Latios used Dragon Gem for more power on Draco Meteor; Scizor often ran Steel Gem (sometimes Bug Gem) since Occa Berry only helped against weak Fire-type attacks and other than that it didn't really have any notable weaknesses defensively).

Other than that, I agree with Laga. With Gems currently out of the picture, the metagame has become a tad slower paced, as alongside several power nerfs on moves (130bp Draco Meteor, 110bp Blizzard, etc), it is easier overall to survive attacks in the metagame (until we discover that Mega Mawile and Mega Charizard Y hit so hard that they don't need items to kill things, but the metagame has generally slowed down somewhat).

I am interested to see how EV spreads will shift due to the lack of Gems and how this in return will affect item choices. For example, if people start to EV their bulky Rotom-W to survive a LO-boosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, then Specs Hydreigon might become somewhat popular since it can grab unexpected OHKOs/2HKOs (similar to Modest Latios last generation, though it wasn't incredibly popular it caught people off guard).



I can actually see a good number of Dragon-types (particularly Latios when it comes into play as Specs was a fairly viable item choice on it last generation) making use of Choice Specs for raw power. With Fairy-types around it will take good prediction to make use of Choice items on Dragon-types, though (otherwise they will probably flat-out fail).

It's nice to see a response with expansive knowledge of the higher-level metagame rather than several posts nerdgasming over gems. I mean I even see people saying things like "dragons are not even viable in gen 6" just because they have been much less popular on the ladder.

Anyway, it was clear that gems made the doubles meta much more fast paced and centralized on OHKOs. I don't really even see them being viable at 30% though when there are Life Orb and Choice items. It would have been much more interesting at say, 40%.
I have seen a much higher usage of choice pokemon, especially scarf this gen. Also, Leftovers seems more viable+common since it is harder to get sniped down in a single turn now after gem+power nerfs

 

[Darkmalice]

I can actually see a good number of Dragon-types (particularly Latios when it comes into play as Specs was a fairly viable item choice on it last generation) making use of Choice Specs for raw power. With Fairy-types around it will take good prediction to make use of Choice items on Dragon-types, though (otherwise they will probably flat-out fail).

I've tried Specs. It's still good. Alas it has more problems this generation. More Pokemon shrug off Draco Meteor this generation (fairies, Aegislash), making it less than desirable to be locked into. Especially Togekiss, who can not only switch into choice-locked Draco Meteor but force out the Dragon thanks to Follow Me rendering them useless. Giving up Protect is also less desirable in a metagame where the Dragons are more vulnerable, partly due to Fairy-types, partly due to priority being more common. Generally I found Life Orb to be better in most cases.

I haven't tried it on Hydreigon yet though, who could potentially use it well thanks to bulk, having a second STAB to use it with that nets good coverage (take that Aegislash!) and resisting Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak.

 

[Joim]

I could see Choice items working on some sets on some Pokémon. Choice Band Dragon Claw or Fusion Bolt from Kyu-b is devastating. Choice Scarf is a big no imo due to the existence of Tailwind and Trick Room. Choice Specs... besides Rotom, which was already mentioned, there are few users, its main use will be tricking it onto defensive or physical mons.

I can see a more defensive meta overall, but this is also a chance to use the new items on Assault Vest and Weakness Policy that are already being discussed on other threads.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Another thing I find interesting is the Pokemon that like the loss of gems and the general move towards a bulkier metagame.
Naturally bulkier Pokemon enjoy it most as it increases their general 'staying power' and longevity.
Looking more towards a few named examples, the best example of this in my opinion is:

Tyranitar ~

Towards the end of Gen V Fighting Gem Hitmontop was everywhere and it was the bane of Tyranitar. Now, with the loss of this gem we may see a return of Chople Berry Tyranitar which can now comfortably bulk a 252+ Hitmontop Close Combat. Obviously, not every Tyranitar will want to carry a Chople Berry. Many teams will opt to run Tyranitarite and a spread I think will be worthwhile running is 252 HP / 136 Def. This allows Tyranitar to survive support Hitmontop's Close Combat (64 Atk) as well as a LO Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch.

The Assault Vest has been mentioned by a couple of users but I'm gonna share my thoughts anyway.
I think it's a really unique item that affects the doubles metagame very differently to that of the singles metagame. For one, many of the Pokemon who are bulky enough to make use of it will not one to run it as it really restricts their ability to support the team which is often a make or break factor. In addition to this, Pokemon with a poor movepool will find themselves forced to run redundant coverage just to carry the vest. The final drawback is the loss of Protect which is really vital in doubles. However, I still think it has a solid place on certain Pokemon, a more in depth look at them can be found here.

The other item I haven't really looked at is the Weakness Policy. I can't really see much place for this in the meta but if anyone would like to prove me otherwise, I'm all ears.

 

[Nollan]

The other item I haven't really looked at is the Weakness Policy. I can't really see much place for this in the meta but if anyone would like to prove me otherwise, I'm all ears.

I've actually seen Weakness Policy Tyranitar, funnily enough.

Honestly, bulky attackers can make fairly efficient use of Weakness Policy. One example is Aegislash, who can easily take a super-effective attack with its 60/150/150 defenses, get a +2 boost, then proceed to kill things in its blade forme.

 

[Doom Lich]

I've actually seen Weakness Policy Tyranitar, funnily enough.

Honestly, bulky attackers can make fairly efficient use of Weakness Policy. One example is Aegislash, who can easily take a super-effective attack with its 60/150/150 defenses, get a +2 boost, then proceed to kill things in its blade forme.

I would've never thought of Weakness Policy TTar, but it does take any non fighting SE on the chin. My main problem is with mediocre speed can it take advantage of that boost after a big hit.

Honestly, as I see it the best user of WP is Dragonite, which is a common sentiment. Multiscale makes it easily take the first hit to burn it's policy, it's a common target for super effective hits, and if you open with DD or Agility you have a helluva fast threat. It's probably not nearly as effective in doubles as singles for a number of reasons, but it should still do work.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

I would've never thought of Weakness Policy TTar, but it does take any non fighting SE on the chin. My main problem is with mediocre speed can it take advantage of that boost after a big hit.

Honestly, as I see it the best user of WP is Dragonite, which is a common sentiment. Multiscale makes it easily take the first hit to burn it's policy, it's a common target for super effective hits, and if you open with DD or Agility you have a helluva fast threat. It's probably not nearly as effective in doubles as singles for a number of reasons, but it should still do work.

I still think Dragonite is kinda shitty, there's so much stuff that can eat it, even after the boost. Maintaining Multiscale is also difficult and can force you to make dumb plays that aren't the best options, just to ensure Dragonite (which may well be irrelevant for the battle) has a better chance of setting up. Fake out and Scarfers carrying Ice coverage are just to common in the doubles metagame to make Dragonite work well. Mamoswine, Weavile and Abomasnow should all be carrying Ice Shard imo and that fucks Dragonite's shit sideways too.



The real issue I see with Weakness Policy is that most Pokemon with the bulk to activate it are too slow to utilize it efficiently. Perhaps using it in conjunction with Trick Room would be the best option.

Edit because dumb

 

[Darkmalice]

I still think Dragonite is kinda shitty, there's so much stuff that can eat it, even after the boost. Maintaining Multiscale is also difficult and can force you to make dumb plays that aren't the best options, just to ensure Dragonite (which may well be irrelevant for the battle) has a better chance of setting up. Fake out and Scarfers carrying Ice coverage are just to common in the doubles metagame to make Dragonite work well. Mamoswine, Weavile and Abomasnow should all be carrying Ice Shard imo and that fucks Dragonite's shit sideways too.



The real issue I see with Assault Vest is that most Pokemon with the bulk to activate it are too slow to utilize it efficiently. Perhaps using it in conjunction with Trick Room would be the best option.

I've used Dragonite with Multiscale. I found it to be the best item you could use with Dragonite. Dragonite's low Speed sometimes can actually work to its advantage with Weakness Policy. You get outsped, hit by a super-attack, activate Weakness Policy, and then hit back with twice the power before your opponent knows what's coming. With Dragonite's high attack and excellent coverage, that boost often means the difference between a KO or not. If you were to be faster, the opponent would be aware of Weakness Policy before you attack with it, giving him a turn to prepare for it.

There are ways around Fake Out and Ice-type attacks. They are Protect and switching. You should not be losing Dragonite before it attacks or you're playing it wrong, especially with what is essentially guaranteed survival from at least one attack. I also have no idea how Multiscale forces you to make dumb plays - there are no disadvantages to using it other than not using Inner Focus.

You also make it seem like you need to get off a sweep to make Weakness Policy worth it... it's a +2 to both Atk and SpA! That's more than a Gem boost in 5th gen! If you land even only one attack with Weakness Policy, it has done its job.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Personally I think Choice items will be really cool on some Pokemon this generation, but I doubt it'll become a more widespread thing even with the loss of gems. You're still locked into a move, and not to many Pokemon have moves that they could/would like to spam for as long as they're in. I've been enjoying a set that kingofkongs told me about, which is Scarf Gardevoir. With the increased speed it is really able to catch a lot of otherwise dangerous Pokemon out and KO them pretty easily.

Elemental plates (or items like Mystic Water or Blackglasses) will be fairly useful as a gem alternative this gen imo, especially since you don't take the recoil you would from a Life Orb or something. You could even bluff another item potentially (spent a whole game bluffing Choice Scarf on Diggersby when it was really Soft Sand, so I was able to take advantage of the surprise to set up a substitute) which is pretty cool. An item I think could potentially start getting more use is Rocky Helmet. There are plenty of good physical attackers right now so the 12% every time they attack you adds up. It could be especially cool on a bulky Garchomp that strips 50% from Mega Kangaskhan every time it tries to attack Garchomp. Rocky Helmet also lets you break sashes which is pretty cool (sashes themselves are a little better actually since recoil weathers now only last 5-8 turns so you could potentially preserve the sash user till after the weather has passed.

 

[Aasgier]

Well, has nobody something to say about Leftovers? So many items passed but Leftovers are ignored.

Obviously, not many mons can use it - Sitrus Berry is on many offensive mons the better choice, but there ARE some good users though they can be counted on one hand.

Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn is a thorn (heh) in the side of many players and can stay alive for very long periods of time if there aren't any powerful Fire- or Fighting attacks around to dispatch it, often even a dozen turns or longer. Aided by Leech Seed, Leftovers provide half-decent recovery for it and are certainly better than a Sitrus Berry or anything else considering Ferro has a tendency to stay alive for very long times. Not always, but it is one of those mons which has absolutely no reason to run any other item in Doubles.

Cresselia: A bulky behemoth that can stay alive for a VERY long time, and if it isn't a Sun/Screen setter there is no reason not to run Leftovers on it. It has reliable recovery and various support moves to use and if your Cresselia can't stay alive for so many turns you are doing it wrong.

Heatran: Substitute variants greatly enjoy the passive recovery and have a tendency to stay alive for a very long time. They commonly run Leftovers and not without reason - I have never seen a Substitute Heatran that did not stay alive for less than 4 turns unless it somehow switched into Conkeldurr or Lucario or something similarly stupid. Other variants of Heatran will prefer an attack boost over Leftovers though.

Hitmontop: Now Gems are out of the picture, Hitmontop greatly appreciates the longevity added by Leftovers compared to something like Life Orb (and a Plate doesn't net any OHKO's AFAIK), especially since you probably won't use Close Combat that often, since it switches pretty often to abuse Intimidate, uses Wide Guard as well as Fake Out and possibly another priority move to buy time for additional recovery.


Other good users include Florges and Blissey, but they aren't good in Doubles outside of some specific niches.

 

[BlankZero]

I disagree on Lefties Cress, mainly due to Scizor and (Mega)TTar being such strong counters to it offensively. Sitrus offers a much better solution to TTar (Scizor can eat that Berry with Bug Bite in PokeBank), while Cress would prefer EBelt Hp Fire for Scizor.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Yeah, for the most part Sitrus, Expert Belt, or Chesto Berry are all items I'd choose before Leftovers on Cresselia. On Hitmontop too I'd probably rather have Sitrus Berry, since living through a crucial hit and having your Hitmontop for later is probably more valuable than the 6% every turn. Substitute users are the ones with the most promise in regards to Leftovers. As you mentioned, SubTran works fantastically with Leftovers since it can stay on the field for a long time when it's played right, and the healing gives it more opportunities to set up Substitutes. Substitute users in general should definitely give consideration to Leftovers, especially with Gems out of the way so that's one less way to power up your attacks since you can't really use Choice items or Life Orb. Due to that narrowed set of options, something like Leftovers should probably seem even more appealing given the benefits it posessess with Substitute even when you're not considering the fact that there are less item options for Substitute users than there were last gen.

 

[youngjake93]

Well, has nobody something to say about Leftovers? So many items passed but Leftovers are ignored.

Obviously, not many mons can use it - Sitrus Berry is on many offensive mons the better choice, but there ARE some good users though they can be counted on one hand.

Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn is a thorn (heh) in the side of many players and can stay alive for very long periods of time if there aren't any powerful Fire- or Fighting attacks around to dispatch it, often even a dozen turns or longer. Aided by Leech Seed, Leftovers provide half-decent recovery for it and are certainly better than a Sitrus Berry or anything else considering Ferro has a tendency to stay alive for very long times. Not always, but it is one of those mons which has absolutely no reason to run any other item in Doubles.
Cresselia: A bulky behemoth that can stay alive for a VERY long time, and if it isn't a Sun/Screen setter there is no reason not to run Leftovers on it. It has reliable recovery and various support moves to use and if your Cresselia can't stay alive for so many turns you are doing it wrong.

Heatran: Substitute variants greatly enjoy the passive recovery and have a tendency to stay alive for a very long time. They commonly run Leftovers and not without reason - I have never seen a Substitute Heatran that did not stay alive for less than 4 turns unless it somehow switched into Conkeldurr or Lucario or something similarly stupid. Other variants of Heatran will prefer an attack boost over Leftovers though.

Hitmontop: Now Gems are out of the picture, Hitmontop greatly appreciates the longevity added by Leftovers compared to something like Life Orb (and a Plate doesn't net any OHKO's AFAIK), especially since you probably won't use Close Combat that often, since it switches pretty often to abuse Intimidate, uses Wide Guard as well as Fake Out and possibly another priority move to buy time for additional recovery.


Other good users include Florges and Blissey, but they aren't good in Doubles outside of some specific niches.

This is one that is going to bring out the skeptics, but in my experience Leftovers Sky Drop Dragonite has done fairly well. Due to Multiscale, bulky Dragonite often can receive as little as <10% dmg from resisted attacks. Sky Drop takes big threats out of the equation while Leftovers reactivates Multiscale. Also, due to Sky Drop taking one of the opponents off of the field, Dragonite is rarely double-targeted so it doesn't need/want to utilize the immediate recovery of Sitrus. As noted by a few people that I battled, this is more viable than it sounds because base 60 STAB coming off of 134 base attack fully invested isn't THAT weak(about 7% stronger than Tyranitar's Rock Slide), Flying has pretty decent coverage and taking half the field out of the equation on your terms is pretty useful.
I believe Dragonite is a Pokemon that can make pretty good use of Leftovers.

 

[BlankZero]

This is one that is going to bring out the skeptics, but in my experience Leftovers Sky Drop Dragonite has done fairly well. Due to Multiscale, bulky Dragonite often can receive as little as <10% dmg from resisted attacks. Sky Drop takes big threats out of the equation while Leftovers reactivates Multiscale. Also, due to Sky Drop taking one of the opponents off of the field, Dragonite is rarely double-targeted so it doesn't need/want to utilize the immediate recovery of Sitrus. As noted by a few people that I battled, this is more viable than it sounds because base 60 STAB coming off of 134 base attack fully invested isn't THAT weak(about 7% stronger than Tyranitar's Rock Slide), Flying has pretty decent coverage and taking half the field out of the equation on your terms is pretty useful.
I believe Dragonite is a Pokemon that can make pretty good use of Leftovers.

That screams Gimmick

 

[Aasgier]

I disagree on Lefties Cress, mainly due to Scizor and (Mega)TTar being such strong counters to it offensively. Sitrus offers a much better solution to TTar (Scizor can eat that Berry with Bug Bite in PokeBank), while Cress would prefer EBelt Hp Fire for Scizor.

Mega TTar does not 2HKO Cresselia with Crunch after two rounds of Leftovers and Scizor's U-Turn won't do much either while you proceed and go with Icy Wind / Toxic.

LO Bug Bite from Scizor as well as Escavalier's Megahorn do 2HKO, but Sitrus Berry won't help against either of those. It helps against common variants of Chandy, but Chandelure won't 2HKO either after two rounds of Leftovers.

And we are talking about pretty damn powerful SE hits at this moment.

 

[Darkmalice]

Mega TTar does not 2HKO Cresselia with Crunch after two rounds of Leftovers and Scizor's U-Turn won't do much either while you proceed and go with Icy Wind / Toxic.

LO Bug Bite from Scizor as well as Escavalier's Megahorn do 2HKO, but Sitrus Berry won't help against either of those. It helps against common variants of Chandy, but Chandelure won't 2HKO either after two rounds of Leftovers.

And we are talking about pretty damn powerful SE hits at this moment.

252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 218-258 (49 - 58.1%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO. Keep in mind that sandstorm damage acts before Leftovers recovery, so it's a guaranteed 2KHO. Cress also usually won't be max/max Def. You'd be better off with Sitrus Berry against Ttar.

It's also not a good argument to say Sitrus Berry won't help against threats like Escavalier when Leftovers wouldn't either, especially in scenarios when Sitrus Berry are more likely to be helpful because your opponent has two Pokemon to attack Cress with instead of just the said threat - I rather take the Sitrus Berry to help with both attacks. Same for Hitmontop.

A better argument would be that you're consistently switching Cress in and out so that it avoids super-effective attacks or hard-hitting attacks so that it does reliably last a long time and you make use of the Leftovers. I did this in 5th Gen. It's harder to do that this gen though with Mega Evos giving us some very hard-hitting attackers.

You also have to keep in mind that the Pokemon doesn't gain Leftovers if it's on full HP - Cress could be untargeted for 6 turns, then be double-targeted and go down to 10% in 1 turn. Despite more turns, Sitrus would be much more helpful here.

Leftovers, however, should be considered for defensive boosters like Stockpile Gastrodon provided you have some team support to help them set up reliably. All in all though, none of the Pokemon who would have used a Gem would be appropriate to shift to Leftovers.

 

[Aasgier]

I can usually keep Hitmontop alive long enough to profit more from Leftovers, even moreso because of the fact that Hitmontop WILL be switching often because of Intimidate, and since it attracts plenty of attacks including faster Fake Outs, it will often spend more than just a few turns below 100% HP.

And Cresselia is something that switches out pretty often too, and it carries Moonlight if you are going to stall anyway. Not that helpful against T-Tar but it is against non-SD Scizor. Ofcourse, there are plenty of Cresselia that have something better to do than stalling, Cresselia isn't even that good on 'stall' because Jellicent exists, which outclasses Cresselia in such a role (and so does Jirachi, and even Florges).

 

[cxinlee]

Weakness policy: The thing is it’s very predictable on Dragonite, and very easy to play around. Still, it is very dangerous once activated, and can probably get a kill or 2.

Life Orb: Life Orb is my main item for hard hitters like Hydreigon, Latios, Chandelure, Mamoswine, etc, giving immense power and not locking you into a move like Choice items.

Shell Bell: ALL HAIL ARON, KING OF DOUBLES.


Sitrus Berry: I usually run this with bulky attackers like Hitmontop, Togekiss and Rotom-wash. That extra 25% hp really helps.

I prefer it over lefties mainly because Doubles is so fast paced, most mons aren’t going to last longer than 4 turns (even thought there are rare exceptions like Moonlight Cresselia).

Also Trevenant and Exeggutor can abuse Harvest to make them extremely hard to break down.

Aasgier: Hitmontop is actually not that bulky and even though it keeps switching it doesn't last very long considering its 50 Hp stat (Plus the fact that megas introduced a lot of strong offensive threats like Char Y).


Weather Items: With the weather nerf, Damp Rock for example becomes a viable option on Politoed to increase the number of turns of rain.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Weather Items: With the weather nerf, Damp Rock for example becomes a viable option on Politoed to increase the number of turns of rain.

With regards to the weather items, I can only see Politoed running one of the turn boosting rocks. Even then it's got stiff competition from other viable items like a Sitrus Berry to add to bulk.
Given how outclassed Ninetales is by MegaZard who requires the use of a Megastone I doubt we'll see any Heat Rock Ninetales floating about. Even support Pokemon carrying Sunny Day won't really want to use it as items providing more bulk are generally favorable.
Smooth Rock seems outclassed by other options like Chople or a Megastone for Tyranitar. That said, if your team is dedicated to a pokemon such as Excadrill it probably wouldn't be a bad option.
Hail doesn't really need more than 5 turns in my opinion, it's not like Abomasnow is sticking around to long and a damage resist berry is generally favorable.

 

[youngjake93]

That screams Gimmick

Not at all. Using Sky Drop to control which Pokemon are targeted is no more gimmicky than using Fake Out, Follow Me or Protect; it just works differently. You essentially get to use Protect against everything slower that turn and you get a Protect the next turn(that they already know about) against faster threats turn 2. You could say that the turn 2 "Protect" is more similar to having your partner use Follow Me. You also either get a pseudo Fake Out turn 1 against slower threats(cool against TR users) or a turn 2 Fake Out that they know is coming, but can't switch out. On top of that, you do decent damage.

In fact, using Sky Drop to control the field and eventually reactivate Multiscale plays very similarly to reactivating Substitute on Heatran. You use Protect, Fake Out and wait for the right opportunities.

 

[Deoxymoron]

I've been messing around with some mons to test out the new items. Yeah, we all know that sitrus berry is good and that mega stones will change the meta, but some of the other items need some love.

Assault Vest: This thing was destined to get a bad rep in Doubles because it means no Protect, no Substitute, no Trick Room. The first of those three is the most apparent, and it's what holds a lot of the most prominent users down. However, I think I have found the perfect user of this move.

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Everyone's a Hero (Scrafty) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide/Ice Punch

(Tagging Arcticblast because he's the only one who's going to get the name reference)
This set is one of the funnest I've ever used. The combination of Assault Vest and Intimidate make Scrafty insanely fun. The EVs are obviously meant for Trick Room, but he functions just as well outside of it, which isn't something most pokemon can claim. Fake out and Intimidate give Scrafty a surprising amount of utility, meaning that he can still provide team support without status moves. Drain Punch is a great STAB that gives him decent recovery, and it definitely leaves a mark on super-effective mons, even at base 90 Atk. Knock Off is, in my opinion, the crux of this set. It gets rid of Dusclops's eviolite, Cresselia's Sitrus Berry, and Aegislash's Weakness Policy- without activating it. In addition to scoring tons of 2HKOs on things it shouldn't be able to 2HKO, it is also effective against any mon or switch-in, just because everyone hates to lose their item. Rock Slide and Ice Punch both provide good coverage- I like Rock Slide to deal with MegaZard Y that think they can wreck me. The only things it really fears are Fairy-types and burn, but considering its insane bulk, it can switch in and out easily enough.

252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scrafty in Sun: 205-243 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scrafty: 220-264 (65.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scrafty: 244-292 (73 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Choice Scarf)
252 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scrafty: 93-109 (27.8 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Weakness Policy is also very interesting. The best user definitely seems to be Aegislash- what makes him so good, besides his whole mega-bulk to mega-offense shenanigans, is that there are only two types that he is not weak or resistant to. Two. That means that he can come in on any non-electric/water move, and either tank it like a boss or start sweeping. Dragonite is a decent user, especially with Multiscale, but the prevalence of Sand really hurts its viability.

Then, there's the runt of the litter, the one that everyone ignored, the little item that could- Safety Goggles. In all honesty, they're not great. However, it does make the user immune to Hail, Sandstorm, Spore, Sleep Powder and Rage Powder. The only reason to use this item is because Safety Goggles have the adverse effect of making Amoonguss pretty much useless. Therefore, a mon like Hitmontop could use this item to gain immunity to Rage Powder and Spore.

Then there's Snowball, which boosts Attack once if hit by an ice-type attack. It's decent against Blizz spam, but I can't see it ever being more useful than Life Orb. Kee Berry and Maranga Berry boost Def and SpD when hit by a Physical or Special attack, respectively. Although a bit gimmicky, these could be interesting on Cresselia, just to make it even bulkier than it already is. Great for setting up Trick Room against stuff like Scizor and Tyranitar.

 

[BlankZero]

Safety Goggles on anything with a ton of powerful Single Target moves might work well, so long as it can threaten Togekiss. I'd like to see Scizor trying it. While it is immune to Sand already, being able to dodge around Spore/Rage Powder is something it would greatly benefit from, as would the previously mentioned Hitmontop.