No. He is too slow and too "frail" (not the word I'm trying to use, but if you run offensive you can't take hits like a boss like the normal Trevys) to run that. And why run that set if it is outclassed by the standart, defensive sets?
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Pokémon Trevenant
- Thread starter Scotti
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Exactly. Taunt is a solid menace to that set, and while currently rare one must be wary of it. I can't really understand why my post was "removed from public view", it was a legitimate question.
Another menace to that set is the ability Unnerve, which renders Trevenant unable to wake up instantly from Rest or to sponge statuses. Neither Unnerve is common, but it's worth mentioning.
because if you move last and are not in danger of getting OHKO'd you will always have a substitute next turn. you can then protect for the regen, ahave over 50% health, and you can proceed to curse stall.
Now imagine this situation against mons that can barely 2 hit or 3 hit KO. it's pretty powerful
Sounds interesting, could probably work. It could run Natural Cure + Rest, too. A free turn would let it heal back up to full HP, and absorb status.
This set is definitely a bit gimmicky, but I'm interested to try it out to see if it has any merit.
Trevenant@Custap Berry
Harvest
240HP/252At/12SpD
Adamant Nature
-Power-Up Punch
-Phantom Force
-Substitute
-Horn Leech/Wood Hammer/Earthquake/Protect
I'm undecided as to how I want to round out the moveset. It's a tricky strategy. Basically you switch into a normal-type or fighting-type attack, or something that Trevenant resists and won't take much damage from, and use a combination of Substitute and Power-Up Punch until your HP is down below a quarter. From there, Custap activates and allows you to go first with an attack other than Phantom Force and surprise KO them. Or, you use Phantom Force with priority, and your opponent's attack misses. Then, you have a 50% chance to harvest your Custap berry back. If you don't, your opponent's attack misses again and you hit them, taking no damage over two turns.
The looming problem is that the harvesting of Custap berry is unreliable and can ruin you if you don't get it, or even be counterproductive if you harvest at the wrong time. Also, faster priority users such as Mamoswine will tear it apart. Hopefully you can still have a last sub up and get one kill.
The last move is a tough call. Horn Leech as a powerful STAB move to regenerate some HP for another sub? Wood Hammer to help get to the Custap threshold faster? Earthquake to hit Normal and Dark types hard? Or Protect to help your chances of harvesting a Custap berry when you need it? I'm gonna battle test this and see if it has any sort of potential.
Trevenant@Custap Berry
Harvest
240HP/252At/12SpD
Adamant Nature
-Power-Up Punch
-Phantom Force
-Substitute
-Horn Leech/Wood Hammer/Earthquake/Protect
I'm undecided as to how I want to round out the moveset. It's a tricky strategy. Basically you switch into a normal-type or fighting-type attack, or something that Trevenant resists and won't take much damage from, and use a combination of Substitute and Power-Up Punch until your HP is down below a quarter. From there, Custap activates and allows you to go first with an attack other than Phantom Force and surprise KO them. Or, you use Phantom Force with priority, and your opponent's attack misses. Then, you have a 50% chance to harvest your Custap berry back. If you don't, your opponent's attack misses again and you hit them, taking no damage over two turns.
The looming problem is that the harvesting of Custap berry is unreliable and can ruin you if you don't get it, or even be counterproductive if you harvest at the wrong time. Also, faster priority users such as Mamoswine will tear it apart. Hopefully you can still have a last sub up and get one kill.
The last move is a tough call. Horn Leech as a powerful STAB move to regenerate some HP for another sub? Wood Hammer to help get to the Custap threshold faster? Earthquake to hit Normal and Dark types hard? Or Protect to help your chances of harvesting a Custap berry when you need it? I'm gonna battle test this and see if it has any sort of potential.
The good news is, it's not as hard to get going as I'd thought. Just have to wait for an opponent to switch in a slower pokemon, or find an opportunity to force a switch. Bad news is, sandstorms takes it down in a very short time. Also, Phantom Force doesn't kill much so you have to get lucky with the Custap berry, and more than once, too. Not viable for OU but still funny to play mind games with opponents.
I am currently using this mon with following setup.
252 SPE / 252 Atk / 4 HP
@sitrus berry
Horn Leech
Leech Seed
Substitute
Will-o-Wisp
I use either a defensive nature or an attack nature I will double check. I love this set as sitrus berry usually activates twice in a turn thanks to harvest and with either Leech Seed/Horn it gathers just a bit more to be usefull as a stall. Ontop of this I setup subs to get in the way and then Will-o-Wisp for extra chip damage. I can usually go through 1.5 mon - 2 mons and once I did pass through i think 4.
I have also seen the rest + berry combo work extremely well but if Harvest doesn't kick in the pokemon is usually screwed.
252 SPE / 252 Atk / 4 HP
@sitrus berry
Horn Leech
Leech Seed
Substitute
Will-o-Wisp
I use either a defensive nature or an attack nature I will double check. I love this set as sitrus berry usually activates twice in a turn thanks to harvest and with either Leech Seed/Horn it gathers just a bit more to be usefull as a stall. Ontop of this I setup subs to get in the way and then Will-o-Wisp for extra chip damage. I can usually go through 1.5 mon - 2 mons and once I did pass through i think 4.
I have also seen the rest + berry combo work extremely well but if Harvest doesn't kick in the pokemon is usually screwed.
Speed is next to worthless on him. Better he has good enough defenses to actually make use of Sitrus Berry
No it isn't. A small amount of speed is almost required on all sets to outspeed major threats to trev otherwise.
I prefer the defenses, personally. Although I mainly use him as a near-foolproof spin blocker, so my investment is to survive hits from Excadrill and Tentacruel.
I think most people would prefer burning TTar before it maims them.
I think most people would prefer burning TTar before it maims them. Spin blockers are even better when they can deal with Pursuit users.
If you were going for Offensive Trev then I say use Lum/Rest over Cutsap/Sub because you have the better longevity overall and Lum/Harvest covers Burn/Toxic. Also you could run dual-stab or use RockSlide instead of a grass attack cause RS is an OHKO on Talonflame if you catch it on the switch
Ttar doesn't maim max defense Trevenant
0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 192-228 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 254-300 (67.9 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, it does.
Compare this to faster variants, and a burned Ttar and...
0 Atk burned Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 139-165 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk burned Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 186-219 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
Those are basically the two most common spreads you are going to see. I didn't run banded calcs because I'm not 100% of its usage/viability this gen. Basically, burning Ttar before it can hurt you is huge.
Edit banded calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Trevenant: 378-446 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 276-325 (73.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even 0 defense investment fares much better, allowing for the ability to neutralize special threats with sdef investment. Plus it prevents you from being screwed by pursuit, a huge accomplishment.
Been using this guy a lot, this set is very effective:
Trevenant@Lum Berry
252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def
Careful Nature (+Sp. Def -Sp. Atk)
Harvest
-Leech Seed
-Will-o-Wisp
-Rest
-Horn Leech
Great for special threats like Mega Blastoise, and burn helps with the physical attackers. Lum Berry+Harvest for extended stall time with rest and for stopping toxic stallers. Works especially well in conjuction with Mega Charizard Y for 100% Harvest.
Trevenant@Lum Berry
252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def
Careful Nature (+Sp. Def -Sp. Atk)
Harvest
-Leech Seed
-Will-o-Wisp
-Rest
-Horn Leech
Great for special threats like Mega Blastoise, and burn helps with the physical attackers. Lum Berry+Harvest for extended stall time with rest and for stopping toxic stallers. Works especially well in conjuction with Mega Charizard Y for 100% Harvest.
On the Harvest/Lum/Rest sets, I think a Chesto Berry could function better. With a Lum Berry there is the possibility something faster than you (Ex. A Rotom) could status you to remove your lum berry so you are asleep instead of tanking. You become almost immune to status anyway because Rest rids you of status, and you are almost garunteed to get your full recovery without sleep (I say almost garunteed because knock off and hypnosis is a thing)
This actually proves you wrong. If you can survive that Crunch and Will-o-Wisp (which you just proved is a certainty), Sitrus Berry will activate and drive you up to an average of 46% HP after accounting for Sandstorm damage. A commanding majority of the time, you'll be able to survive the second hit and use Leech Seed and a combo of Protect and Harvest to get you back above KO range. Even in the worst-case scenario that Crunch does maximum damage, you're looking at Sitrus Berry getting you back to 39% HP after sandstorm damage, with a 50% chance of Harvesting a second Sitrus Berry at the end of the turn to pull you back up to 58% HP after Sandstorm damage. And even in the event that you don't get that Berry, you can use Protect again the next turn for another 50% chance to Harvest your Sitrus, which would bring you up to 52% HP, at which point you can use Leech Seed/Protect in tandem with Harvest to ensure that you're safe from being KO'd. So even in the very unlikely scenario that Crunch does within 2% of maximum damage two times in a row (highly unlikely), you still have a 75% percent chance of Sitrus keeping your HP high enough to handle Tyranitar with ease. Overall, the chances of me surviving a Tyranitar encounter are over 95%, which I would say falls well short of being "maimed". Even in the event that Crunch hits that very small chance of lowering my defense on the first try, having Protect gives me a 75% chance to switch out with over half of my HP remaining. I don't even need to tell you how pitiful Pursuit would fare against this Trevenant, not to mention that I have encountered exactly zero Tyranitars that run both Crunch and Pursuit. Additionally, I can't even recall the last time I ran into a Choice Banded Tyranitar, and the rarity of it is a risk I'm willing to take in order to know I can survive a Shadow Claw or a Swords Danced Earthquake from Excadrill.
What I'm saying I guess is that you can run damage calculations until you're blue in the face, but if you don't take the game mechanics into account, you're not proving anything. In this case, you've actually proven yourself wrong. In your defense, it seems as though you didn't consider that I might be running a Sitrus/Protect set, so maybe just don't go through all that effort next time unless you've checked all the facts of the set.
The zero defence one can do the same thing. Except this one is at ~60% due to sitrus. You have to keep in mind that you are running the same set and moves just not the same EVs. And most ones that have speed investeted have the rest invested in Defence so you also just proved yourself wrong. And if the damsge rolled minimum you are still at higher health with the speed invested one. If you are comparing EV spread you have to assume the same set. You can't say "Oh well I'm actually running this set and you aren't so gg"
I didn't prove myself wrong. My goal was to prove that my max defense Trevenant doesn't get maimed by Tyranitar, and I believe I did that very well.
I had the impression that you were trying to prove it superior, when in this case it ends in a shittier position then 0 defence
Two things wrong with that.
One. CBTar always ohko's the version you are praising, which, may i remind you, was one of the most popular sets of gen 5.
Two. Your scenario assumes you survive a crunch, and use leech seed. That puts you dangerously close to being ko'd by the next attack, even if you spam protect and harvest, ttar can eventually predict right and either use your own protect against you to bring in a free switch to something that threatens trev even more, or one of your attacks could miss and leave you one poke down.
Oh, and the only sets worthwhile are the harvest sets, basically, so don't say I don't know all the parameters.
I don't think you read my post thoroughly. I made a clear case that I'm not worried about Choice Band Tyranitar because nobody uses it anymore, and the other Pokemon I'm more worried about taking down.
Second, my scenario assumes that at around 60% HP I survive another burned Crunch (which will do a maximum of damage of 40%), then use Leech Seed, which will restore me to around 35% because of Tyranitar's huge HP stat. 50 percent chance at Harvest, and if that fails then I have Protect so I can restore more HP with leech seed next turn, and another 50% chance at harvesting sitrus.
And if you're talking about a scenario in which Tyranitar predicts a Protect and switches out, I've already accomplished my goal. Tyranitar is burned and my Trevenant is still alive, and there's a very good chance that my Trevenant has over 50% of its HP left. Furthermore, said Tyranitar can't serve as a viable counter to my Trevenant anymore.
My Trevenant not only cripples Tyranitar, but actually has the power to stay in against him an take him down, which yours has more trouble doing because even a burned Tyranitar is hitting you for over half your total HP. Not to mention my version serves as a much better counter to Shadow Claw Excadrill and literally every physical attacker that yours can't outspeed, because it can actually stay in against them.
So go ahead and use your speed to burn Tyranitar first. I'll take down every version of Tyranitar just as easily or more so, with the extremely rare exception of the Choice Banded set. I'm sure our respective Trevenant suit our respective teams equally well. But before you write it off, try my version and see how well it works for you for a while.
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