Resource USUM NU Viability Rankings (Old)

[Salemjuggernaut]

-> A-
I don't have a very strong opinion on this Pokemon, so I'm probably not going to write much. Cryogonal is one of those Pokemon that if there were a tier between B+ and A-, I would put it there. With the absence of Emboar, it's capabilities as a Spinner have increased quite a bit, and it is also a great check to Heliolisk and Venusaur as well. Right now, it seems that the list of reasons to use Cryogonal is certainly increasing, so I do think it should rise to A-.

-> A-
The more I seem to thing about this nomination the more I seem to agree. Houndoom right now works great against bulkier teams, being able to shut down a lot of passive Pokemon like Altaria and Mega Audino with Taunt, and that's just with the Nasty Plot set. It also pretty much 6-0s stall for the most part, although Pyukumuku can obviously cause issues. Despite that though, Nasty Plot is so great to use against bulkier teams, although I still think the problem lies with Houndoom within offense teams which carry faster Pokemon. With Pokemon like Slowbro and Venusaur becoming so much more common, I think Houndoom is a great addition to have on your team. The Scarf set is also really cool, being able to Pursuit trap a varaiety of the tier's Psychic and Ghost-types, such as Delphox and Mismagius. Not much as really changed for the Scarf set in my opinion, although Destiny Bond variants can stop Z-Celebrate Venusaur now. It can also run Toxic as a fourth move, so you're not completely useless against bulkier Pokemon like Mega Audino. Therefore, I think Houndoom should rise to A-.

-> UR
I actually ran a workshop where we built around this Pokemon, and we found the main thing that prevents this Pokemon from doing anything at all for the most part, is the ever-potent Slowbro. Slowbro seeing much more usage and rising in ranking invalidates Tauros completely, and while you could run a Work Up set to deal with Slowbro, Tauros rarely gets the opportunity. On paper, Tauros seems great, but in practice, it really fails to do what you want it to do most of the time. Checks like Sneasel and Heliolisk also give it hell. With that in mind, I do think that Tauros should be unranked. Side note: It's definitely not unusable, but honestly I don't see the point of having it ranked.

-> UR

-> C+
I don't really care for these nominations too much, however I'd probably unrank Aggron but keep Dugtrio where it is.

Definitely don’t unrank Aggron. Choice Band Head Smash basically OHKOs/2HKOs everything in the tier that doesn’t resist it and is bulky. It only got better with Emboar and Virizion being absent in NU so unranking it makes no sense.

Tauros is able to outspeed and check most offensive threats which is a nice niche to have. And the claim that Heliolisk and Sneasel check Tauros is false cause Heliolisk doesn’t even outspeed Tauros and secondly, Sneasel fails to OHKO it so that shouldn’t be considered a check. I get that Slowbro being such a prominent threat in NU which hinders its wallbreaking capabilities by 11. But it can still be backed up by Pursuit trappers and hazards (As well as Whimsicott and Heliolisk). C- is fitting for it at the moment. Especially since it got better for the same reasons as Aggron

 

[quziel]

Hariyama: B+ = > A- / A_

So, Hariyama is seeing a ton of play in the post boar meta, partially due to the new Protect/Toxic Set coming into its own, and party due to checking Incineroar, Sneasel, Houndoom, and Vanilluxe (well, this one is shakier) in one slot. Thanks to its reasonable defenses, and amazing resistances, it compresses a ton of roles that many teams need currently, while still providing a rather nice offensive threat thanks to 120 base attack and CC. The Toxic set lets you even annoy the everliving hell out of slowbro, as that mon hates being toxic'd, and protect lets you 1v1 Incinium-z Incineroar more easily.

That is not to say that AV and Flame Orb aren't great, in fact, they are, but they aren't new. AV trades damage on Slowbro for the ability to check Vanilluxe much more consistently, taking 26% max (+Hail) with the max SpDef spread, while not needing much support at all, and just being fairly safe to use. In the age of Toxic spam, Guts yama, specifically the Flame Orb set is proving rather useful, with its raw power allowing it to 2hko Slowbro after rocks with Facade, and abusing several of the silly passive mons that are rising a tad in usage such as Silvally Steel or Type:Null.

TL:DR
-Incineroar rising gives it a good reason to be used on balance, being one of the more reliable answers to that mon on fat.
-Old reason such as Sneasel, Houndoom and Vanilluxe are increasing in prominence thanks to pig being gone.
-Pro-Tox set is really cute for Toxic'ing Slowbro very reliably, which is a win condition in itself

Edit2: Electric Boogaloo

Delphox is spooks, pls move down, it doesn't like incineroar existing.

 

[Venomben]

So as far as rankings in my experience are concerned I have to say they are pretty solid...

I believe Hariyama should move up solely based on major bulk and resistance to a ton of threats, making it very splashable. It has an unfortunate speed tier, but variance in its sets and bulk and threat potential/movepool/access to priority give reason for me to say it works well on balanced teams, especially in the current meta.

For me, Clawitzer is a special mon, so I might be biased in suggesting it too moves up, but I will. Specs Claw is absolutely devastating and I would personally say its about as strong at wallbreaking as Vikavolt is. It does not get access to a good recovery move or an easy switch and is still injured by spikes, but a C+ ranking is absurd for a pokemon that slams slowbro and is seeing increased usage. In addition, AV sets are interesting checks to pokemon like Delphox, Typhlosion, Sigilyph, and Guzzlord. Expert belt sets are viable but barely so imo. Also, Max HP Spa sets provide nice bulk for survivability. Again, Wallbreaking is really nice, especially in this meta.

Golbat is weird. I like it a lot, it combats most fighting types (bar medicham) all poison types that aren't named psychic Whimsicott, and most poison types as well. Defog is not truly that great, but it is usable. As of recent times, I've tried a physical attacking set... It kinda works great. I know it doesnt sound it seeing as loses to rock and steel types, but a super fang/bb/poison fang/roost (or swap out Pfang for a better move like Toxic) with legit physical investment is super cute. And as a moderator is named... I like cute things

After experimentation, I have also determined that Gurdurr is not viable. Gurdurr is immensly outclassed no matter what set it runs and I am shocked that it gets usage.

 

[Venomben]

Also as far as potential Blastoise placement is concerned; it only has 2 sets, is outclassed by many bulky water types, can only run well on stall/balanced teams (tho that is the meta) and generally is not that great...which is disappointing cuz its my favorite starter.

I'd say a solid B would be generous but decent place to start it since it does have nice bulk and access to powerful coverage moves

 

[Stoned M&M]

Clawitzer isn’t a horrible mon, but it’s just not great at what it wants to do most of the time. Specs is strong, sure, but at the same time it’s slow and has a hard time switching into offensive threats. For example, max speed Clawitzer gets 2HKOd by Delphox’s and Houndoom’s Psychic/Psyshock and Dark Pulse, respectively. Like other offensive waters in the tier, it’s hurt by Toxicroak’s and Venusaur’s rise in popularity, as well as Heliolisk’s existence. It faces competition from an already declining Samurott, considering they have similar damage outputs with the special set being able to 2HKO SpDef Venu with Ice Beam, can 2HKO Slowbro if it runs Grass Knot, and has a better speed tier. Samurott’s can even bluff an SD set, yet is still only sitting in B because of all the recent meta-trends going against it.

AV sets faces problems with it not being able to switch into much as well. It gets worn down quickly while having no access to recovery, getting 3HKOd by the small number of things it’s aiming to check and loses a lot of its wallbreaking power. Compared to other slow mons such as Vikavolt, it doesn’t offer much to team synergy, being able to reliably switch into prominent mons like Slowbro and Steelix and heal off any damage.

Really, the main problem with Clawitzer doesn’t check as many things as you would want for a mon that is only base 59 speed, leaving it difficult to justify a team slot over another wallbreaker with some defensive utility. With things like Toxicroak and Venusaur on the rise, I think Clawitzer (and other offensive waters) are only going to decline more than they already have.

 

[rhydonphilip]

I somewhat recently already made a post regarding Vikavolt, Miltank, Cryogonal and Silvally-steel but looking at the B+ ranking again I noticed some other pokemon I would like to see more debate spark on and some I think are worth ranking up to A- and some down to B mid.

Rotom-N from B+ to A-
Hariyama from B+ to A-

Hitmonlee from B+ to B mid
Altaria from B+ to B mid/B- even

Rotom-N is something I really want to see more debate on as most people don't want to talk about it or argue the utility yet keeps popping up in league and tour format showcasing verious strong utility traits nothing else in the tier could provide the way it does; 90+ speed, pivot, ghost, defog, will-o/hex utility and offensive z-move user with decent enough stats to make that work. These traits give it very usefull offensive pressence as a defogger, prevents common pokemon such as Steelix while providing a check to Zangoose/Vivillon and other stuff and only really sees negative light with Scarf Houndoom and Sneasel who can punish it with Pursuit. It will-o's down most of our sr setters and from there can be a serious threat to most teams if it plays its volt switches right.

Hariyama is a bit obvious with current meta trends and even defense invested hariyama showcases utilities because of Incineroar, Sneasel and still answering Vanilluxe/Houndoom properly. Maby less of a blank special wall because of it but certainly valid. Toxic-protect is cute but i don't think that set is the thruth even if it does some chip damage on bro and acts as a nice lure for important 2HKO's like thunder punch from jolly medi and such.

Hitmonlee is along the same line of a post I made a while ago where I go in detail for how little

As much as I agree with most of the mentions it has some that seem very out of place;

Hitmonlee for good reason hasn't been needed or as usefull ever since US/UM and the reasoning can be boiled down to Medicham not only doing most of what it does better but almost compleatly outclassing everything it does exept for Mach Punch and Rapid Spin. The last of which with US/UM's addition of defogers has simply gotten out of need for most people. While Hitmonlee isn't a bad spinner it's only an offensive spinner while most of our setters have enough durability to outlast it like Miltank, Drudd punishes the spinning and as much as I dislike Pallosand, people do use it to where it hitmonlee has to wory about not being able to actually spin vs it unlike Cryogonal who walls it to oblivion and back. Mach Punch is actually the only reason to use Hitmonlee over Medi in current meta alongside outspeeding the 80 bench + Toxicroak (not like it beats toxicroak 1v1 but whatev). Mach Punch however alongside still insanely powerfull fighting type strength(infact Adamant LO HJK does about the same as LO Medi's HJK) so it still has a middle ground of reasoning to be used, just not as consistenly much as before and I think the VR should represent this. You also mentioned Slowbro but while it's highly important a single 100% wall shouldn't suggest the mon can't do anything as we do have plenty of amazing pokemon who got better in current meta like Vikavolt, SD Incineroar and other pokemon who ease up your ability to break past it, from where they often don't have any answeres left. (Medi does this by itself but you often can still use a team mate for that).

It's just not as good as it was at one point and even by these standerds I think its not placed in the right spot.


As for Altaria; it's inexplicably passive to where anything advantages from it with set up. The amount of times it is forced out by SD pokemon like Toxicroak/Incineroar or more agressive set up like Omastar is just absurd. Sure it has defensive pressence with Nature cure, can't be toxicated yadayada but who cares when it is still forced to roost every second turn and relies on toxic to deal with most pokemon leaving it vulnerable vs poison types who wall it to oblivion. Not even going in on how piss weak flamethrower is. Issue it has is that if it doesn't run flamethrower Venusaur runs it over harder, lix laughs in the things face as if curse doesn't already and lastly ice types ruin it too.

Hide

0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 98-116 (32.5 - 38.5%) -- 97.6% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dry Skin Toxicroak: 85-101 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Vanilluxe: 102-120 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Steelix: 136-160 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Altaria Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whimsicott: 124-146 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO
Just some common stuff it really shouldn't do so little against when threatning them.

I will expend on this in more detail with calcs when I have more time so expect this to be edited in 3 hours, for now I did like to hear more general discussion on these mons.

 

[Realistic Waters]

--> A- / A

Haven't posted in a while so sorry if my post is bad but I'd like to make a nomination.
Defiant is incredibly useful at the moment. People always seem to be oblivious to the fact that clicking defog or parting shot against Braviary means your attack goes to sky high levels but it's also able to take advantage of Incineroar's intimidate since its usage is pretty high up there thanks to its new ability.

But you aren't just limited to one set and while choice scarf isn't a bad set since it's a good revenge killer, I want to talk about it's other sets which take complete advantage of the current meta since it's focused around bulky balance (Slowbro, Venusaur, Steelix, Audino, Altaria or any boring balance mon) which is one of the other reasons I'd Braviary to be ranked higher.

Specially Defensive Bulk Up sets serves as an amazing mid/late game sweeper taking advantage of every passive mon that can't break your subs and offensive Bulk Up Z move serves as a great lure since everyone expects a choice scarf if you don't have leftovers. Steelix will usually try to switch in and click Stealth Rocks or attack but Superpower followed up by Brave Bird take it down while it can't affect you too much. (main lure target)

+1 252 Atk Braviary All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 324-382 (92 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[quziel]

Mega Post of my thoughts on the current meta:

Delphox: A+ => A/A-

This mon does not benefit from current meta trends, its scarf set is setup bait for two very spooky mons in Houndoom and Incineroar, its easily trapped, and while its CM set is still good, that's honestly the only one of its sets really deserving of an A ranking. Additionally, Pursuit Rhydon is super scary for any non-CM set, as it trivially removes Delphox if it ever clicks anything but Grass Knot, while also annoying the hell out of the wish/tect set, which is notably easily pressured thanks to how much it is often expected to do and Stealth Rock. Not much to say other than that current meta trends have made some of its answers rather prominent, and its hurting as a result.

Klinklang: A+ => A

Not nearly as sure on this one, but Steelix is in a great place, Slowbro is in a great place, and many mons that soft check it such as Incineroar and Hariyama are present in the meta. Real iffy on this one, just mainly nomming based on gut feelings and the prevalence of certain answers. That and the fact that Venu, a mon its occasionally needed to check deals way too much with LO Leaf storm (50% min). Again, real iffy on this one.

Steelix: Agree with A => A+

Basically, Sneasel is as common as ever, its typing remains useful as ever, and it heavily annoys Maud, which has gotten more prominent as of late. Not too much really changed for this mon other than the discovery and popularization of alternative sets such as Curse, but its just generically good in the meta, and that does a ton for it.

Rhydon: A- => A

Ok, so this mon benefits heavily from a number of meta trends, being the only good rocker that can beat Incineroar 1v1 (+2 252+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 337-397 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) even after rocks, though it needs to be at really high HP to do so, forces Houndoom to blow its Z-Move to bypass it (very possible to outpredict, and not even a guaranteed OHKO, can even ev to avoid), and with Pursuit, it can straight up remove stuff like Delphox, Choice Scarf Rotom, and providing excellent support for the rising star of NU, Venusaur.

Houndoom: Agree with B+ => A-

This is imo one of, if not the best Scarfers in the current meta, providing great utility with Pursuit and a last ditch Dbond, and good stab coverage with its well, stabs in Fire and Dark, letting it be one of the more reliable ways to revenge kill Celebrate Venusaur after its set up (252 SpA Houndoom Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 216-254 (71.7 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, only needs a bit of chip). The prevalence of the scarf set has also majorly benefited the NP set, which can use that to bluff a scarf and get some set up. Note, I honestly think this rise should be due to how good its scarf set is, and how that benefits its other sets so much.

Incineroar: B+ => A

This mon has proven itself insane in recent play, having great bulk letting it be a useful utility check even when uninvested to a bunch of really scary stuff such as Venusaur, literally any fire type, or Sneasel, while Malicious Moonsault and Z-Flare Blitz provide it unmatched wallbreaking prowess, letting it put in insane work. It punishes essentially anything slower than it very heavily with its insane power and stab combo. Considering the meta is somewhat balance focused atm, this is a good thing. Basically, good defensive typing atm (provided you can control SR), matches up impeccably vs anything fat, and just high enough of a speed tier to outrun anything defensive makes it great.

Braviary: Agree with B+ => A-

Agree with what waters said above, its a great scarfer atm, and non-scarf sets threaten fat well, while matching up well vs Venusaur.

Piloswine: B+ => A-

This mon is one of the few Ice resistant rockers atm, which can be incredibly useful for role compression on many teams. Additionally, its stab coverage remains really annoying to face if you somehow aren't using a Slowbro, and reasonably strong priority on a rocker can be invaluable on many teams. Not too much has changed for it, just figure its ranking should reflect its place in the meta as a rocker with good offensive presence, which provides a very unique defensive niche.

Rotom: Agree with B+ => A-

Honestly, the main reason I believe this should move up is because it is honestly the best defogger in the current metagame with its Colbur Hex Defog set, which comes in essentially for free on Steelix, while punishing many potential switch ins with either a Volt Switch or a Willowisp. Yes, it is annoyed by the Fire/Darks rising up in prevalence, but being a defogger that comes in for free on the most common mon in the tier without sacrificing momentum is amazing atm.

Hariyama: B+ => A-/A

Read what I wrote above for my thoughts on the matter.

Zangoose: B+ => B

This mon is barely used for a reason: the costs of building around it are often greater than its rewards, as to use the Belly Drum set effectively, you need very effective Pursuit support, and you often are almost forced to run a Memento user to allow Zangoose to set up, which can be incredibly telegraphed. Additionally, and more damningly, Colbur Slowbro generally tanks a hit even after Belly drum, and does enough that if you even take 20% damage when setting up you die (0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zangoose: 130-154 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after toxic damage). Basically, it ain't amazingly favored by meta trends, and while its alternative set, Toxic Orb breaker is very usable, I don't believe either set necessitates a B+ ranking.

Altaria: Agree with B+ => B/B-

Ok, so this mon is setup bait for legit like the entire tier, is a SR weak defogger, and while yes, its probably the easiest way to deal with Slowbro in the tier, it doesn't really do anything off of that, with both mons just sorta Toxicing eachother and setting there, with Alt being essentially unable to do anything off of that besides sit passively and Flamethrower/Toxic stuff, while also being setup bait for legit like everything threatening atm, see Incineroar.

Omastar: B => B+

Ok, hear me out; this mon turns many choice locked attackers into set up bait, threatens a lot of fatter teams thanks to nearly unparalleled power once set up, and thanks to Delphox plummeting out of omnipresence, its a lot more annoying to revenge kill. Thanks to Z-Moves, it can fairly reliably bypass many common water checks, (+2 252 SpA Omastar Breakneck Blitz (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 454-535 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO), and in general, Weak Armor means that even if you can't set up, you can still contribute very effectively vs more frail teams. Yes, it is weak to priority such as Mach Punch, but like, the main Mach Puncher in the tier, Hitmonlee is at record lows of usage, and Toxicroak, a mon that should answer it, is OHKO'd with a lucky roll after SR with Ice Beam (+2 252 SpA Omastar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 254-299 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), or just using your Z-Move on it, while it can't even do 50% with Sucker in return.

Vaporeon: B => B- (maybe lower)

Ok, so legit, what does this mon excel at atm, other than inviting in Venusaur, Toxicroak, and Heliolisk in for free? Sure it can Heal bell, but there's so much Toxic spam being thrown around atm that 8 PP often isn't enough, and the opportunity cost of letting in 3 of the Tier's most threatening breakers in for free is rarely worth it outside of very specific balance teams, which are often ok with having Slowbro. This and the fact that Vileplume also does the Aromatherapy thing while being Toxic immune and having broken move Strength Sap.

Don't really want to spend much time on C-ranks as they're huge, and this post is already getting long, but:

Golbat: C+ => B-/B

Ok, so this is the hardest counter to Venusaur in the tier, and legit you have to struggle to lose to Venu when using this mon if you have even acceptable hazard control. Sure its generally only an ok at best Defogger, but the Stallbreaker bat set with Taunt/Brave Bird/Toxic or Super Fang/Roost can put in great work vs a lot of fatter styles that are floating around currently, while nearly countering Venusaur and Toxicroak, which can be absurdly useful for many teams atm. Its insane bulk and great typing are just so useful atm that I struggle to justify ranking it in the C ranks.

Kabutops: C+ => B-

Ok, so if you ever hit Kabutops with a Knock Off it becomes faster than your entire team, and immediately threatens everything with the SD/Stone Edge/Waterfall/Aqua jet set, notably OHKOing Slowbro after rocks with a +2 Z-Edge. Yea, its worse than Omastar, but having priority is insanely useful at some times, letting you provide an emergency check to stuff like Houndoom, dealing 75% min, while Z-Stone Edge is strong enough to OHKO would be counter Toxicroak after a SD.

There are more changes I could suggest, but tired atm.

 

[Ampharo]

Vileplume C+>B-: Don't get me wrong, I think Venusaur is much better, but I think Plume's niche is overlooked too much. Vileplume is undoubtedly the better choice on fat/stall teams thanks to access to aromatherapy and recovery with more PP than synthesis. I know that seems like a questionable niche when Maudino can run heal bell, but what makes Vileplume such a cool cleric is the fact that it's immune to toxic and hence doesn't find itself getting tox'd again right after heal belling or continually heal belling as your opponent continues clicking toxic.

Magmortar B>B+: Seriously wavy mon that could basically be called a fire type Vanilluxe. Delphox falling off is pretty nice for it, as it had nothing particularly great for it and psyshock was devastating for Magmortar, but with it falling off it's in a pretty nice position due to it being able to win 1vs1 against the other relevant fire types and disable traditional fire type checks with focus blast and thunderbolt. This mon has very few switch ins for a mon that is only ranked B, with the only existing ones being Slowking, Hariyama, Druggidon, Altaria, and Vaporeon.

Some Calcs:
252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 60 HP / 0 SpD Magmortar: 243-286 (79.4 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Houndoom: 334-394 (114.7 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Incineroar: 306-360 (92.4 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Magmortar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Magmortar All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 196 SpD Guzzlord: 546-644 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Magmortar All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 374-442 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Miltank: 256-302 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Louna]

unranked-> C+

so with incineroar/sneasel/houndoom being literally everywhere poliwrath offer a nice role compression, being able to check these three mons as well as soft checking klinklang, scrafty, being able to cthrow sd type:null and malamar away, offer a nice piloswine switch in thats not slowbro, all these cool traits in one slot is really cool, it even has the possibility to hold a rocky helmet to punish av incineroar while he's trying to gain momentum, and basically every physical attacker in the tier thats not a bird, while still having decent special bulk, with circle throw and scald, its far from being a setup bait against most threats, being able to run a resttalker set mean its not that threatened by status even tho being toxic'd is never good

 

[Thigh-High Fruit Loop]

boom (Hypno) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/Fire Punch
- Hypnosis
- Zen Headbutt
(no this isn't really a joke) Hypno - Unranked --> C-
I'm perfectly aware with this is a gimmick, but hey, It sets up on a hell of a lot of things if you hit hypnosis and it can be a almost ok late game sweeper
At 1.5 times speed (gotten from z-hypnosis), Hypno reaches 384. Which is enough to outspeed every non-scarfer (besides accelgor) and it hits pretty hard after a belly drum (unsuprisingly)
Hypno's special bulk also lets you take a hit or two, to set up.
It's just a fun set and I've had alright success with it.

some defensive hypno bulk calcs

252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 208-246 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (cannot use sleep powder on you)
252 SpA Vivillon Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 204-242 (65.5 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 255-300 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 206-246 (66.2 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 204-240 (65.5 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 188-224 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

hypno hitting hard

+6 252 Atk Hypno Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hypno Drain Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 242-286 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Hypno Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 315-372 (77.5 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Hypno Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 486-574 (123.3 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

a few replays untill i get more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-717586478
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-717516425
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-718054886

i should probably make a real team around this..

 

[Venomben]

View attachment 105345
boom (Hypno) @ Psychium Z
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch/Thunder Punch/Fire Punch
- Hypnosis
- Zen Headbutt
(no this isn't really a joke) Hypno - Unranked --> C-
I'm perfectly aware with this is a gimmick, but hey, It sets up on a hell of a lot of things if you hit hypnosis and it can be a almost ok late game sweeper
At 1.5 times speed (gotten from z-hypnosis), Hypno reaches 384. Which is enough to outspeed every non-scarfer (besides accelgor) and it hits pretty hard after a belly drum (unsuprisingly)
Hypno's special bulk also lets you take a hit or two, to set up.
It's just a fun set and I've had alright success with it.

some defensive hypno bulk calcs

252 SpA Vivillon Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 208-246 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (cannot use sleep powder on you)
252 SpA Vivillon Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 204-242 (65.5 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 255-300 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 206-246 (66.2 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 204-240 (65.5 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hypno: 188-224 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

hypno hitting hard

+6 252 Atk Hypno Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Hypno Drain Punch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 242-286 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Hypno Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 315-372 (77.5 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Hypno Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 486-574 (123.3 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

a few replays untill i get more

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-717586478
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-717516425

i should probably make a real team around this..

Hey, there's a forum page specifically for unmeta mons (not necesarily meme sets but sets that have an uncommon niche) which would benefit from this post :)

This is the link: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nu-creative-underrated-sets-thread.3609222/

 

[dodmen]

Skuntank shouldn't have been unranked, it can actually switch into what it traps unlike Houndoom and Sneasel and having a really strong Sucker Punch + Aftermath gives it great utility against offense. And just because it doesn't beat Rhydon and Steelix doesn't make it useless as a Defogger, although I don't even run Defog. Basically with Taunt / Pursuit / Sucker Punch / Poison Jab it's an effective revenge killer/trapper against offense and decent disrupter against fatter stuff like Audino. Although I run Black Sludge, Lum Berry is also useful to potentially trap Slowbro with Taunt + Sucker + Pursuit while avoiding a burn, also useful for Rotom.

Hide

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-714670618 despite being burned, it wears down Delphox to let Specs Whimsicott sweep and as a bonus blocks Prankster Defog to keep my hazards up.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-714665762 chip + revenge kill on Braviary, kills Rotom, Aftermath damage on Hariyama although that didn't matter.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-720055329 traps Slowbro (!!), prevents rocks from going up which won me the game, Aftermath damage on Xatu to get it into Whimsicott range
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-698714293 cleans up an offensive team with hazards up lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-698708042 traps CB Trevenant, "traps" Delphox, bonus damage on Clawitzer for dodging a Fire Blast

I'd put it around B-, it's certainly better than Spiritomb which is in C+, and performs about as well as the others in B-.

 

[Ampharo]

Skuntank shouldn't have been unranked, it can actually switch into what it traps unlike Houndoom and Sneasel and having a really strong Sucker Punch + Aftermath gives it great utility against offense. And just because it doesn't beat Rhydon and Steelix doesn't make it useless as a Defogger, although I don't even run Defog. Basically with Taunt / Pursuit / Sucker Punch / Poison Jab it's an effective revenge killer/trapper against offense and decent disrupter against fatter stuff like Audino. Although I run Black Sludge, Lum Berry is also useful to potentially trap Slowbro with Taunt + Sucker + Pursuit while avoiding a burn, also useful for Rotom.

Hide

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-714670618 despite being burned, it wears down Delphox to let Specs Whimsicott sweep and as a bonus blocks Prankster Defog to keep my hazards up.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-714665762 chip + revenge kill on Braviary, kills Rotom, Aftermath damage on Hariyama although that didn't matter.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-714665762 traps Slowbro (!!), prevents rocks from going up which won me the game, Aftermath damage on Xatu to get it into Whimsicott range
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-698714293 cleans up an offensive team with hazards up lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-698708042 traps CB Trevenant, "traps" Delphox, bonus damage on Clawitzer for dodging a Fire Blast

I'd put it around B-, it's certainly better than Spiritomb which is in C+, and performs about as well as the others in B-.

Problem is, it's hardly threatening enough offensively to effectively pursuit trap. Delphox can laugh at your pursuit if colbur berry and deal way too much damage back, rotom burns you then switches out, and while you do effectively pursuit trap both mismagius and sigilyph, Houndoom can switch into both relatively safely and pursuit trap as well. It's a pretty bad defogger as well, being able to only find very few opportunities by threatening mons out offensively and unable to take on any setter 1vs1, the scope of it's bad MU's against rockers extends way past rhydon and lix, it also loses to some omastar variants, piloswine, druggidon, probopass, and some garbodor variants.

252 Atk Skuntank Pursuit(40) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Delphox: 69-82 (23.6 - 28%) -- 89% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 246-289 (70.6 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Skuntank Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Rotom: 66-78 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+
252 Atk burned Skuntank Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Rotom: 64-76 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Your Skuntank got burned and Rotom successfully switches out

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 203-239 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sigilyph: 218-260 (76.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You win 1vs1 but you cannot switch in like you're trying to claim

Although it might be slightly fat with HP investment it just isn't enough to safely get rid of your speed tier. I'm assuming you use a fat skuntank, but it definitely doesn't live up to the tank in it's name enough to sacrifice it's speed tier. It's a lose lose, run fast skunk and be unable to "switch in and pursuit trap" or run full HP and still only be able to switch in occasionally on what it's trapping while losing badly to the max speed 60-80 powerhouses.

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 203-239 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skuntank: 246-289 (60 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Yea, this hardly helps.

The only thing I can really see going for it is being the best trapper for power gem mismag. Otherwise pretty bad mon and not worthy of B-

 

[dodmen]

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Skuntank: 144-172 (40.4 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Not sure how houndoom is better vs that when it's outsped and 2hkod, scarf doesn't even come close to killing and it's even more fucked by colbur or protect.

252 SpA Delphox Fire Blast vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Skuntank: 175-207 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Works if you don't mindlessly switch into Fire Blast, and if you check the replays I posted, it killed one Delphox easily and essentially killed another one by forcing it out with hazards.

It also was able to kill a Colbur Rotom after rocks in the replays despite having to take the burn, a trade teammates like Type Null, Zangoose etc are more than willing to make. I fucked up the third replay link but it works now, and you can see it successfully trapping a Slowbro in that one.

No idea what you need any speed investment for, everything you want to Taunt is slower than you (Type Null, Audino, rockers, other fat shit like Vileplume). It also checks Venusaur! At worst in a game, it's going to be a one time check to something like Vanilluxe or Heliolisk since it can take a hit and threaten back. But as I showed, it's usually able to do a lot more.

 

[Elias PSY]

Lanturn: UR to C-/C

Lanturn has a good niche as a check the common hazards setters such as steelix and rhydon .The assault vest set is a good answer to your choice locked and lo heliolisk, houndoom, golbat and bulky water (hello slowbro).He can also pivoting on them with volt switch,lure offensives venusaur with ice beam on switch or run various supports moves like toxic,heal bell,twave.

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 390-459 (85.9 - 101.1%) - 6.3% chance to OHKO (Lanturn has a good chance to retaliate with scald or just add spdef evs instead of hp to tank after stealth rocks)

252 Life SpA Orb Heliolisk Hyper Voice Vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 142-168 (31.2 - 37%) - 70.3% chance to 3HKO (Free momentum)
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice Vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 163-193 (35.9 - 42.5%) - guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 98-116 (21.5 - 25.5%) - 0.4% chance to 4HKO

+2 252 SpA Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 225-265 (49.5 - 58.3%) - 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 370-436 (81.4 - 96%) - guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Lanturn Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 152-180 (50.4 - 59.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Lanturn vs. Volt Switch. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Medicham : A to A+

Double priority,access to Thunder punch and Ice punch make medicham one the best wallbreaker on the tier.3hkoing resists like venusaur,garbodor and gourgeist,a good speed tier,and and threatening for many offensive pokémons.

Blastoise: UR to C+

It seems outclass by silvally(this one can pivoting and has more usefull options) but blastoise has refresh allowing him to toxic bulky mons without fear status.Also he is good on stacking hazards teams with rapid spin which he beat steelix,rhydon and palossand.

 

[lolbro]

Medicham : A to A+

Double priority,access to Thunder punch and Ice punch make medicham one the best wallbreaker on the tier.3hkoing resists like venusaur,garbodor and gourgeist,a good speed tier,and and threatening for many offensive pokémons.

Blastoise: UR to C+

It seems outclass by silvally(this one can pivoting and has more usefull options) but blastoise has refresh allowing him to toxic bulky mons without fear status.Also he is good on stacking hazards teams with rapid spin which he beat steelix,rhydon and palossand.

Agreeing with Stoise and Medi. Refresh stoise is something I have yet to use much of myself, but it's been used against me on ladder and shit and it's a pretty cool set. Takes advantage(?) of the mons that don't actually beat it with damage, but rather by clicking toxic. This kind of lets is beat other waters you'd think would wall it, in the sense that it just toxics them and the uses refresh which puts the enemy mon in a losing scenario.
I don't know in what world you run no psychic stab medicham, because zen for sure doesn't 3hko poison types, even if they're pdef. Anyway, Medicham is just a spooky motherfucker to try and stop for the more meta slower archetypes whom'st rely heavily on brolix and maud to check fighters.
[QU

 

[Venomben]

Lanturn: UR to C-/C

Lanturn has a good niche as a check the common hazards setters such as steelix and rhydon .The assault vest set is a good answer to your choice locked and lo heliolisk, houndoom, golbat and bulky water (hello slowbro).He can also pivoting on them with volt switch,lure offensives venusaur with ice beam on switch or run various supports moves like toxic,heal bell,twave.

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Houndoom Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 390-459 (85.9 - 101.1%) - 6.3% chance to OHKO (Lanturn has a good chance to retaliate with scald or just add spdef evs instead of hp to tank after stealth rocks)

252 Life SpA Orb Heliolisk Hyper Voice Vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 142-168 (31.2 - 37%) - 70.3% chance to 3HKO (Free momentum)
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hyper Voice Vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 163-193 (35.9 - 42.5%) - guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Grass Knot (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 98-116 (21.5 - 25.5%) - 0.4% chance to 4HKO

+2 252 SpA Delphox Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 225-265 (49.5 - 58.3%) - 98.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 370-436 (81.4 - 96%) - guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Lanturn Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 152-180 (50.4 - 59.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Lanturn vs. Volt Switch. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Just curious but like, where are the calcs for a steelix EQ or Rhydon EQ? If you want to say lanturn offensively checks cuz water beats ground/rock, fine but just as a point:

Calcs

252+ SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 340-408 (82.1 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
16+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 468-552 (119.6 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Steelix: 282-332 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 420-494 (107.4 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 204-242 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 464-548 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So its nice and does lots of damage but also dies instantly and cant even switch out if you lead with it. Sure, water absorb is nice, but its a toxic meta as well... Also, if you're volt switching on King/Bro, they get to recover most of the damage dealt by switching and you're getting no real opportunity to chip either. I like lanturn, dont get me wrong, but its simply not that good.

Edit: I also wanted to point out that it doesn't really switch into rhydon that well but pilo and steelix it might if they don't click EQ

 

[banks]

b -> a-

Passimian has seen a slight influx in usage recently, easily finding a place on offensive teams that are in need of a choice scarfer with decent bulk and defensive utulity that forces out mons such as sneasel, inciroar, houndoom, heliolisk, silvally-steel, vanilluxe, type: null, scrafty with stab close combat, and even mons like whimsi, toxicroak or garb with useful coverag lying in eq and gunk shot. Additionally, Passimian, unlike any other fighting types, can easily U-turn on freely on expected defensive switch ins like slowbro and venusaur, giving you a huge advnatage over the opp, forcing them to give up momentum. Also choice band is very comptent withing itself, 2hkoing the majority of the tier and offering uturn over say medi.

strong

252 Atk Choice Band Passimian Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 161-190 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Passimian Close Combat vs. 176 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt: 150-177 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Passimian Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 197-232 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Passimian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Garbodor: 266-314 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Passimian U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Based on the fact of Passimian arguably being the best choice scarfer in the metagame, contending to be one of the best fighting types in the tier, and a fearsome breaker u-turn giving momentum, i believe passimian should rise to at least a-.

 

[Fragmented]

unrank to C/C-

Really good mon for the BroLix + Bat or Saur meta, filling in the empty hole that once was filled up by Virizion. Normal/Grass STAB hits almost everything for neutral in the tier, and coverage in Jump Kick or Stomping Tantrum pretty much completes the set. Sawsbuck has a higher attack stat than Virizion and hits much harder right of the bat, as well as useful abilities in Sap Sipper and Chlorophyll (or you could always run Scarf Headbutt :/). The things holding this mon back are its semi-decent bulk and speed tier that, while decent, still ties or is outsped by the threats that it wishes to kill (e.g. Delphox, Houndoom). Nice niche mon that performs better than Sceptile as a Grass SD sweeper, worth ranking IMO.

replay, i guess: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-723022551

 

[lax]

hi im back with another high quality post, sorry for bad formatting i got lazy this time

Blastoise: Unranked -> C
Toise is a pretty shit mon tbh.. abused by a ton of stuff like helio the ever prevalent venusaur etc. right now it’s just not fit for the meta. it does have a niche tho in countering bro w/ the refresh toxic set and beating most of the nu rockers. being forced to refresh/spin gives up a lot of momentum and most teams will have mons that wittle it down fast and easily pressure it so i don’t expect it to take off at all. z refresh is an ite set but no lefties sux too

Turtleman C- -> B
Yo this ranking is disgusting as fuck tbh. A rocker that beats all the other rockers and is a meatshield for most special attackers like whims and more notably heliolisk, it’s pretty damn good. Drawbacks include the 4x ice weakness and the fact that it loses to xatu unless u run some whack sd seed bomb set. Anyways torterra is pretty underrated so some examples of shit it does includes chewing whimsicott (rocks fodder if youre smart with the synthesis’s) venusaur (specs sludge bomb is annoying but life orb you should be able to heal safely even while and get the rocks up) own heliolisk of course and also living scarf phox/doom fire blasts and killing em with eq which is cool sometimes. Underrated mon that ive used quite a few times as a glue to some teams, also cuz im a huge pussy when it comes to heliolisk prep

Houndoom aka the dogmen B+ -> A
Now i was one of the dudes that called for doom dropping to b+ at the start of usum but now i think it’s really good. With emboar and viriz leaving, doom has a lot of untapped potential imo. I made a np z solarbeam set that can bait scarf and nuke the bro/rhydon/pyu/whatever you think really effectively. Taunt z dark is also a great stallbreaker much like sd taunt incin except doom has a nice speed tier as well. “Counters” to houndoom include av incin and type lul which arent that common nowadays too. They both get chipped fast 2 and type lul is forced to rest

Sandslash alola C- -> C+
Spdef alola slash is actually really great if you support it decently with a bulky water and fighting switch in. It counters a plethora of things like whimsicott, vivillon (with icicle spear for the sub/sash ones), venusaur and vanilluxe to an extent. It also beats xatu as a rocker and gets spin so that’s really useful as well.

Hm i support quziels noms on incineroar, yama, rotom and bat.

Some drops that arent too major but i support are
Type:nuLUL A+ -> A-: you would be thinking that the dog is even better with emboar and viriz gone but the truth of the matter is people just know how to handle it better. The rise of fighting types and ghost types mean practically every team now has solid counterplay rather than that time where some dudes were hard 6-0’d by it.
Slowking B+ -> B
people been saying oh just use king now bro isnt needed for boar haha but king can’t easily switch in to the physical attacks of many mons like brobro can. If sneasels gone, king instantly shoots into S rank imo cuz av will be unkillable but sneasels still here so king deserves a drop imo
Vaporeon B-> B-
Another minor one but there’s literally no reason to use him rn cuz 1. He has no regen 2. Fighting types still hit it strong and 3. u either run toxic and get fucked by other toxic mons or run heal bell and get walled by everything. oh croak and venu are super popular now so it’s even worse..

think that’s all for now, will wait for next vr update 3:

 

[etern]

New update! The nominations made in the last couple days will be voted on in the next slate.

Rises:
Houndoom: B+ > A-
Steelix: A > A+
Hariyama: B+ > A-
Rotom: B+ > A-
Rhydon: A- > A
Incineroar: B+ > A
Piloswine: B+ > A-
Golbat: C+ > B-
Kabutops: C+ > B-
Vileplume: C+ > B-
Magmortar: B > B+
Skuntank: UR > C-
Poliwrath: UR > C-
Blastoise: UR > B-
Passimian: B > A-
 
Drops:
Aggron: C- > UR
Tauros: C- > UR
Dugtrio: B- > UR
Hitmonlee: B+ > B
Altaria: B+ > B
Delphox: A+ > A
Klinklang: A+ > A
Zangoose: B+ > B-

Current Discussion Points:
Abomasnow: C- > UR
Torterra: C- > C+ / B-
Malamar: B > B+
Uxie: B- > C
Samurott: B > C+
Qwilfish: B- > C

 

[Venomben]

Ooooh, this new discussion jawn looks like fun...

Uxie:

I like this mon a lot due to its highly variable movepool so its frustrating to admit that its relatively useless in this meta. Sneasel heavily hampers its existance and while it has a cool niche of heal bell and setting up rocks... thats miltank... Personally I think as a defensive psychic its upstaged by slowbro/slowking depending on what its supposed to be blocking and as far as rocks, there are far better rockers in the tier. Levitate is neat but not super helpful. The main role I see it playing is a stealth rocking trick room setter. Its unfortunate but C appears to be fair.

Torterra:

Interesting call getting bumped so much. I haven't seen blastoise that much and I feel like this is part of the reason. The other part might be due to Virizion leaving and that means a physical grass type could step up. Or maybe it just has a unique type advantage over other rockers. But that aside, it loses hard to cryogonal in all facets and pretty much cant beat ice as is. I dont entirely know what it does so I'll leave my comments at that and say if you want to bump it to C or C+ I get it but no higher than that. It just doesn't seem deserving of a B- ranking. I definitely wanna see/hear more about it though cuz I don't get its niche.

Qwilfish:

Man I straight up haven't seen this thing. Without emboar it feels empty. It gets destroyed by the slows and xatu. It has benefitted from a drop in usage from Delphox tho. I agree with the drop :)

 

[Moron5]

Palossand:
B- => B/B+ and maybe eventually A-
At the moment of making this nom, I believe that this is at least on par with Miltank and probably Piloswine as well as rockers. It's just such a great pick for your run of the mill balances/stalls being able to check so many mons like croak, cham, klang, hariyama, passiman, heliolisk, etc. while not even forfeiting your ability to beat Xatu having high sustainability at that. It also has excellent matchups against other popular rockers, pops silvally-steel and enjoys the decline of Altaria. I wouldn't even be opposed for it to rise to A- with Rhydon as I think they're on the same playing field. Anyway, B- is no justice for a top metagame rocker.

Sigilyph:
A- => B+
I want to like Sigilyph so much but goddamn if it wasn't so matchup-based. Going against a Sneasel instantly puts a hunter's mark on this puny little letter head and this is just a sitting duck to Type: Null. I appreciate its resilience to toxic spam being the best style atm, it certainly doesn't like that Incineroar is the GOAT rn and the fact that it's strapped as FUCK for moveslots. Like Rotom is just typically a better fogger purely because Sigilyph can only have 4 moves to hit a plethora of threats. Some combo of Defog/Energy Ball/Filler/Filler will get fucked by some other mon like Delphox, Guzz, Houndoom, etc. All-out-attacker sets with sash are usable on HO but cmon HO is hardly a great style. Cosmic Power CM is cool but easily stoppable for most teams with inherent answers like Vikavolt, Guzz... Incineroar... you get the idea.

Ferroseed:
C+ => B-
No justice for ferroseed as a hazard setter either. This hard counters Venu so hard you'd think this is like gamefreak's masterplan. Also annoys the fuck outta Slowbro bc fire blast is no move rn. B- is right cause it's a passive turd but it's utility to check 2 S ranks, a plethora of other mons (non-sub klang, whimsi, deters guzz from spamming draco, aromatisse, to name some) and get them rocks/spikes up is enough to warrant a rise as well as decent overall SPL usage.

 

[Adaire]

B --> B+/A-
After a recent surge of offensive teams, Omastar has been the one staple of consistency in an archetype that isn't. Recent trends have helped not just Omastar, but offense in general, however, it is not confined to offensive teams only and can very easily be used as a wincon on balance. The huge impact this mon has on the tier should not be disregarded as Omastar viciously abuses very standard pokemon in NU, the prime suspect being the ever prevalent Sneasel - as it sets up on any choiced move that isn't low kick - amonst other things. After a shell smash at +2, it outspeeds common scarfers such as passimian and braviary, it can break standard defensive cores such as BroLix and it isn't vulnerable to this tier's vast variety of priority such as sneasel ice shard, toxicroak sucker punch, and medicham bullet punch. Straying away solely from it's offensive presence, Omastar can also act as a great suicide lead scaring steelix, rhydon, palossand and piloswine while also teasing the risk of shell smash. Its defensive utility isn't anything to scoff at either, boasting a impressive defense it can take hits from a wide array of physical mons like sneasel and klinklang. Even without setting up, Omastar still threatens the majority of pokemon slower than it with the looming presence of Z Hydro Pump, however its speed and less than optimal sub-typing in rock restricts Omastar from being ever higher but it still deserves to be on par with other offensive threats in A-.

Unranked --> C-
This pokémon is a meme, albeit a fun meme and a meme you should pay attention towards. Bibarel can find its niche on certain teams as with Simple Swords Dance raising it's attack to 885 and a very good offensive typing, the transition from meme to monster is very quick. So now lets establish why Bibarel is the pokemon for you. Why use it over Zangoose? Sustainability during set up and the option to exploit aqua jet mean that Bibarel can set up on a lot without the need of memento support as well as being less prone to revenge ice shard by the spawn of satan sneasel and being able to hit rotom. With the addition of terrains, grassy seed is another viable gimmick that can be very threatening if played correctly and partners very well with unburden Sceptile, who sets up the bibarel "answers" so bibarel can knock 'em down. Bibarel boasts a surprisingly decent speed, being able to outspeed Jolly Incineroar and all below without the need of a positive nature so it doesn't have to resort to using it's weaker priority. Obviously it isn't all sunshine and roses, Bibarel still struggles to OHKO a lot of things with it's 40bp priority which can lead to being revenge killed, however, with the optimal support, I believe it can easily unnerve the standard balance and bulky offense of NU and deserves to be ranked for doing so.