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Wide / Quick Guard: New Mechanics
- Thread starter sarysa
- Start date
i've gotten into the habit of using stone edge over rock slide on non-STAB users anyway. sometimes i miss (literally) having rock slide when there's a togekiss and charizard on their side, but stone edge packs so much more power where it counts. topmoth is going to have a harder time this gen if people start using stone edge on everything instead of rock slide (unless rock resist berry/focus sash becomes the standard item on volc), since you might want to spend a turn to scout which move they have before trying to set up in front of tyranitar.
I don't think Quick Guard actually blocks Prankster status moves; at least, not those that do not target the enemy.
Today I was in a battle on wifi, where my Klefki used Light Screen. The enemy Meowstic used Quick Guard, but my Light Screen still came up. It probably would have blocked Swagger or Brave Bird, but my screens are safe. That also means that Quick Guard is not a total replacement for Fake Out, because you can use Fake Out to beat things like Trick Room and Tail Wind on the first turn.
Today I was in a battle on wifi, where my Klefki used Light Screen. The enemy Meowstic used Quick Guard, but my Light Screen still came up. It probably would have blocked Swagger or Brave Bird, but my screens are safe. That also means that Quick Guard is not a total replacement for Fake Out, because you can use Fake Out to beat things like Trick Room and Tail Wind on the first turn.
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Light Screen doesn't target the opponent, so Quick Guard doesn't affect it.
The threat of Wide Guard seems to have led to decreased usage of multi-target moves (that, and multi-target moves tend to not faint anything), but Quick Guard remains a star. Is it predictable? Yes. But I've managed to use it in multiple ways:
- To cover my taunter when countering Trick Room. (my taunter can also OHKO Aromatisse, hehe)
- To cover my attacker when I know they can get the faint in this turn, barring priority moves.
- As cover against any Belly Drum Azumarill that I failed to neutralize. :D
- Meowstic + Jolteon vs. annoying bird = dead bird or forced manual switch.
There's much more benefit to forcing alternate behavior from your opponent with Meowstic's +4 priority QG than there is with Wide Guard...especially if you have the speed advantage. (which you will if you break a trick room)
- To cover my taunter when countering Trick Room. (my taunter can also OHKO Aromatisse, hehe)
- To cover my attacker when I know they can get the faint in this turn, barring priority moves.
- As cover against any Belly Drum Azumarill that I failed to neutralize. :D
- Meowstic + Jolteon vs. annoying bird = dead bird or forced manual switch.
There's much more benefit to forcing alternate behavior from your opponent with Meowstic's +4 priority QG than there is with Wide Guard...especially if you have the speed advantage. (which you will if you break a trick room)
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That is actually pretty new, Quick Guard didn't block against Prankster boosted moves last gen only moves which had enhanced priority by default. Are you absolutely sure it worked like this in game?
As tested above, it only works on moves that target you. It does not work on priority roost/light screen, for example.
Quick Guard blocks the hell out of Talonflame, at least on Showdown, so I'd assume it's safe to say it works in-game this way as well.
I feel Scrafty is the best current user for Quick Guard atm. Great set of STABs, Intimidate, Fake Out, and now the ability to cockblock Thundurus (upon release), Talonflame, Scizor, etc.
I feel Scrafty is the best current user for Quick Guard atm. Great set of STABs, Intimidate, Fake Out, and now the ability to cockblock Thundurus (upon release), Talonflame, Scizor, etc.
I quite like Meowstic, actually. Prankster lets it block Fake Out with total reliability and allows it to choose between stopping anything that would outspeed the +1 status moves it has, or using a +1 status move (Charm on a physical attacker, for instance). Although it's great on Scrafty also for the ability to troll Talonflame particularly (hahahahaha good luck brave birding scrafty lol)
That is some horrifically backwards thinking, it works on Showdown so therefore it works in game?
I do agree Scrafty has the tools to be effective but I'd contest it being best anything, if anything a 4x weakness to fairy at the moment is probably the most fatal weakness to have on top of having both it's STAB's being resisted, Scrafty if anything is more of a liability this Gen. Meowstic is the king of support and priority abuse this gen with Hitmontop strongly contesting it still.
Oh wow just found this topic today trying to figure out if Quick Guard is capable of blocking Fake out (and I do bring this question up to anyone that knows or can confirm it doesn't have the same priority as it). 5th gen I had an Escavalier with it and it was unable to block fake out (which is really dumb). I hope this isn't the case this gen.
Anyhow, this is extremely nice info, I won't have to worry as much about Heatran using Eruption as much. And this makes Marowak even more usable in doubles now under trick room since he get's the niche of having the best single target ground move in the game bonemerang (with STAB and Thick Club, same power as earthquake though :v, but not multi-target and breaks/hits through sub).
Anyhow, this is extremely nice info, I won't have to worry as much about Heatran using Eruption as much. And this makes Marowak even more usable in doubles now under trick room since he get's the niche of having the best single target ground move in the game bonemerang (with STAB and Thick Club, same power as earthquake though :v, but not multi-target and breaks/hits through sub).
Your Escavalier was unable to block Fake Out because both moves have the same priority and your Escavalier was slower than the Fake Out users.
Wide Guard and Quick Guard fail if the user moves last, either because everything else switched out or used higher priority moves. This also applied to them in Gen 5 and is the case for all Protect-like moves.
I mean I hope that this gen, the priority for quick guard is higher than fake out this gen. Really lame that they both have the same priority and that the only way to actually stop it is get another fake out user that's faster or use innerfocus crobat (or protect, but that's essentially what fake out forces you to do, waste a turn) when the move is suppose to stop priority.
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Fake Out and Quick Guard both still have +3 priority so you're out of luck there. Only M-Meowstic has a +4 Quick Guard thanks to Prankster.
I haven't encountered a Rage Powder/Follow Me user yet so I'm curious to see if Quick Guard also stops those things...
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rage powder/follow me only have +2 priority so fake out will indeed always go first against said user thanks to its +3 priority.
Should have been more clear, meant Quick Guard vs Rage Powder/Follow Me.
Rage powder and follow me both aren't attacks. They're a status that is inflicted on the user that forces all single target moves to target the user of follow me/rage powder (assuming you're not a grass type or a oblivious mon) so quick guard will be useless against follow me/rage powder.
Wouldn't that kind of sucks though? since you have to sacrifice some coverage when you do that. Don't get me wrong the suprise factor might make it worth it but still after you use it then the move isn't really usefull anymore.
Also its pretty cool that you can see people's face through the internet.
Some Pokemon can afford to double up on STAB moves. Think Kingdra with both Muddy Water and Hydro Pump, Excadrill with both Earthquake and Drill Run, Charizard with both Heat Wave and Fire Blast. Since in Doubles you have an additional partner to compensate for any offensive shortcomings, having redundant yet different mode of offense can help the Pokemon's main STAB offense to be effective more often despite the opponent's attempt at neutering them with Wide Guard or Follow Me.
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mattj
blatant Nintendo fanboy
I forget that when smogon talks about doubles they're not talking about VGC. I actually did get to see some great facial expressions yesterday at the Missouri regional when I feinted their wide and quick guards and proceeded to do whatever I wanted to do. Also had someone use quick guard, then protect. Lots of "Wait, wait... how did that... I thought..." *blank stares*
I mean, if you can get it to work for you, have fun with that, but it sure does seem predictable to me.