Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[kay]

The point I was trying to make in the OP was about how well the meta adapted to it. My other points were a bit weaker, and are not something I'd like to


Edit: There is still some argument for how well the meta has adapted to this mon. My other points besides the meta shift are far weaker and should be ignored.

 

[Dentricos]

OK time for some most likely unpopular opinions :/

S ---> A+

Personally I agree with Sir Kay's point that gatr should move down from S rank. Although it is true that you will have problems with gatr if you do not bring some proper stops to it the thing is... if you don't bring those stops to gatr then you would probably get destroyed by many other water type sweepers as well such as samurott, gorebyss, carcosta, or even barbaracle. Gatr is definitely agreed to be the best of those but the checks are necessary on your team whether feraligatr is in the tier or not.

Also on top of that I wouldn't consider the dragon dance to good considering aqua jet hits most things that out speed gatr and when people set up with gatr people will switch into things with enough bulk to handle sd gatr. The extra speed would end up quite irrelevant at that point.

A+ ---> A

As good as seed is with it's and good at setting hazards it is I think it should move down.

Yes it is good. It has access to both stealth rock and spikes. It has amazing bulk before getting hit by knock off and it's ability is EXTREMELY annoying on it making it unbeneficial to u-turn on on it especially with hazards up which it is good at doing itself. It can also use leech seed for annoying recovery.

However you really can't just overlook the lack of offensive presence in an A+ ranked mon. It has nothing to get past xatu or even get any momentum for the team off of it. This creates a huge problem for seed teams. Also when u get rid of hazards via defog or rapid spin which has become highly possible now that people have learned to play around things like pawniard and spiritomb is no longer in the tier.

A+ ---> ???

I keep seeing people talk about how good this is and how it should stay in the same ranking as typhlosion. But whenever I use this or play against it... it is just extremely easy to deal with. Unless your opponent plays it perfectly it can be quite easy to deal with, which is true for many things between B and A rank. To be honest I really don't understand why it is over hyped. Not that it's a bad mon I just feel it is way to high for it's uses.

A+ ---> S

I know this point was already brought up but I think uxie deserves to be with her sister considering it runs so many great sets that can support teams like dual screens, stealth rocks, memento, u-turn, knock off, heal bell, yawn, t-wave, toxic and basically anything you need to fill in the gaps on your team. People have even got calm mind uxies to work and they seem to work better then calm mind mespirit (In my experience).

A- ---> A/ A+

Oh my god this things niche just works so well. As the only magic bounce user in the tier, bar natu, this can solidly switch in on any spike setters that are commonly used in the tier, IE: Garbodor, ferroseed, Crustle, Quilfish, Dragalge, and Weezing. Although there are some mons that set rocks that are too dangerous for xatu to switch in that doesn't really make it's benefits, as a switch in with offensive calm mind presence, irrelevant.

 

[Evan.]

OK time for some most likely unpopular opinions :/

S ---> A+

Personally I agree with Sir Kay's point that gatr should move down from S rank. Although it is true that you will have problems with gatr if you do not bring some proper stops to it the thing is... if you don't bring those stops to gatr then you would probably get destroyed by many other water type sweepers as well such as samurott, gorebyss, carcosta, or even barbaracle. Gatr is definitely agreed to be the best of those but the checks are necessary on your team whether feraligatr is in the tier or not.

Also on top of that I wouldn't consider the dragon dance to good considering aqua jet hits most things that out speed gatr and when people set up with gatr people will switch into things with enough bulk to handle sd gatr. The extra speed would end up quite irrelevant at that point.

Gatr should definitely still be S imo. Let's go by the definition:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Feraligatr is definitely a mon that can sweep the majority of the metagame with little support using it's feared SD set. It has it's checks as every mon does but the majority of the meta falls to it's incredible bulk, set-up moves and priority STAB. Most people believe that SD is the only set that Gatr can run. Feraligatr can actually run 2 very effective sets with 2 different types of checks. Most offensive teams run an offensive grass type as their gatr check, almost all of which (scarf lilli >.>) lose to Dragon Dance Gatr. The fact that it can run 2 perfectly viable sets that have different checks as well as being one of the bulkiest set up sweepers allow it's flaws to be thoroughly mitigated by it's substantial strengths, and cements it's place in S-Rank imo.

 

[Pooch13]

OK time for some most likely unpopular opinions :/

A- ---> A/ A+

Oh my god this things niche just works so well. As the only magic bounce user in the tier, bar natu, this can solidly switch in on any spike setters that are commonly used in the tier, IE: Garbodor, ferroseed, Crustle, Quilfish, Dragalge, and Weezing. Although there are some mons that set rocks that are too dangerous for xatu to switch in that doesn't really make it's benefits, as a switch in with offensive calm mind presence, irrelevant.

As a frecuent user of Xatu (CM set, LO offensive)I can tell you that you are selling it for a higher price than its worth. Garbo, Crustle pack rock blast for it, relaxed ferro s gyro ball does a good amount of dmg, Quilfish can P jab on the switch and poison it, i carry electric coverage on Galge and a STAB sludge bomb or pulse will do a lot of dmg. Weez cant really carry T spikes as it NEEDS wow, pain split, STAB and coverage or haze. Also the rise in popularity of moldbreaker Rampardos makes it harder to use and common setters like Rhydon and Toad /Slash (packing knock off) handle it better.

The only setters that Xatu has no trouble at all with are SW setters but SW sucks in NU rn. I absolutely love Xatu but i feel that the meta too has adapted in some kind of way to magic bounce.

Also keep Gatr on S. Can eh and Teddeh summed it up completely so i have nothing to add but support for it to stay S rank.

Agree on Ferro and Uxie tho and i dont use pyroar much but like said in all the posts before, keeping it in the same rank as Typh seems both logical and fair

 

[ryan]

The fact that people run checks and counters to Feraligatr doesn't make it more solidly S-rank. The more a metagame adapts to a Pokemon, the less effective it is, which is why Feraligatr isn't even very good anymore. Teddeh is totally right that unprepared teams get steamrolled by Feraligatr. Unprepared teams also get steamrolled by Mr. Mime and Swoobat. That argument is terrible. It's one of the most used Pokemon in NU. People prepare for it.

You can't just slap a Feraligatr on a team and expect results. The same cannot be said for Mesprit or Typhlosion, which both have viable ways of beating their own checks and counters. Natural Gift Feraligatr is nothing more than a shitty gimmick, while Extrasensory Typhlosion and HP Fighting Mesprit are both fine sets.

Feraligatr is weak without Life Orb (or while in Torrent range) and easier to take out with it, so it absolutely needs a decent amount of support before sweeping a significant portion of the metagame. Its movepool is hardly diverse, with Crunch hitting like two things the rest of its coverage can't, Superpower hitting only Ferroseed, Natural Gift hitting one check one time, etc.

Feraligatr is the most reliable Water-type sweeper in the tier, but that doesn't make it S-rank.

 

[soulgazer]

Gatr doesn't even need Natural Gift/Crunch/Superpower go get past his 'counters'. IDT Superpower is a gimmick tho(its actually good since u can smack Seismitoad and Poliwrath with that while hitting Ferroseed), but Crunch and Natural Gift are lol. Who cares if Gatr's movepool isn't diverse when you just need to decide between Frustration, Ice Punch, and sometimes Superpower and cover what the coverage can't with teammates (which isn't even hard by the way)?

Feraligatr isn't weak either

 

[Dentricos]

Most offensive teams run an offensive grass type as their gatr check, almost all of which (scarf lilli >.>) lose to Dragon Dance Gatr

I do want to point out that the dragon dance set really doesn't work as well. If the gatr check is an offensive grass type that outspeeds it then sd gatr can kill that thing on the switch in. If they don't immediately switch in sd gatr can still put in work on the mons that don't switch. By all means gatr is good but it really is not as scary as people make it out to be. I don't see very many high ladder players get 6 -0d by gatr or consistantly lose their win condition because of it.
Mespirit is on a different level then gatr imo considering how difficult it is to play around and how it has the ability to destroy things that would be a switch in to a differtent set. On top of that it's a reliable rock setter :/

Garbo, Crustle pack rock blast for it

Although this is true defensive xatu can live pretty consistantly nd then roost to make rock blast less effective. If they keep staying in then you can set up a few calm minds if you are using that set.

relaxed ferro s gyro ball does a good amount of dmg

No.... no it doesn't lol XD

0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 84-100 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Quilfish can P jab on the switch and poison it

That relies a bit to much on hax tbh but it wouldn't matter anyway considering how easy it is to use heal bell/ aromatheropy in this tier with mons like uxie, plume, granbull. Ect. Quilfish can't afford to stay in or it will get bopped so roost is inevitable.

I carry electric coverage on Galge and a STAB sludge bomb or pulse will do a lot of dmg.

Not sure about thunderbolt but I know xatu can handle sludge bomb ok and start setting up calm minds. I think if u don't predict the switch then roost will take care of tbolt along with outspeeding xalm minds and psychic stab to scare dragalge away.

Weez cant really carry T spikes as it NEEDS wow, pain split, STAB and coverage or haze.

This is true u can never be to careful. Xatu switches into its stab sludge bomb pretty well and can bounce back WoW and t-spikes.

Also the rise in popularity of moldbreaker Rampardos makes it harder to use and common setters like Rhydon

Rhydon don't give no fucks anyway. You def can't switch xatu in on that fucker unless u hope to get lucky.

And Toad /Slash (packing knock off) handle it better.

Just saying after the initial knock off they can't do enough damage to bring below 50% it can start setting up or just flat out be at full HP for the next switch.

 

[Kiyo]

You can't just slap a Feraligatr on a team and expect results.

i actually disagree with this. even teams with 1 gatr "counter" and 2 "checks" can easily be worn down over the course of the match and can be beaten fairly easily 1v1. unless your opponent is running frillish or shedinja you're probably going to be able to boost past the checks and counters as anything that supposedly walls gatr gets set up on.

 

[Dentricos]

Even teams with 1 gatr "counter" and 2 "checks" can easily be worn down over the course of the match and can be beaten fairly easily 1v1.

Gatr is a threat to be considered while you play the game. It isn't too much of a hastle to make sure ur counters and checks stay in good health granted that gatr also needs to be kept in good health. Torrent range gatr is strong but gets rekt by priority.

 

[soulgazer]

Gatr is a threat to be considered while you play the game. It isn't too much of a hastle to make sure ur counters and checks stay in good health granted that gatr also needs to be kept in good health. Torrent range gatr is strong but gets rekt by priority.

lol.

The vast majority of the Pokemon used to check Feraligatr aren't only used for Gatr. There's so much stuff that they will switch into and they are bound to get worn down, which just makes it easier for Gatr lol. That's why you often see Gatr with stuff that forces in its checks or that can easily beat them since most of Gatr's checks and 'counters' do not have reliable recovery.

If you think you can just keep your Grass-types in the back and expect to never have to bring them in until Gatr comes in.. you are damn wrong.

@ your reply: hello? Gatr doesn't care if it isn't at full anymore lol. It can still take hits easily at 70-80%, Swords Dance, and have Torrent boosted STABs. Do you even play NU?

 

[Pooch13]

I do want to point out that the dragon dance set really doesn't work as well. If the gatr check is an offensive grass type that outspeeds it then sd gatr can kill that thing on the switch in. If they don't immediately switch in sd gatr can still put in work on the mons that don't switch. By all means gatr is good but it really is not as scary as people make it out to be. I don't see very many high ladder players get 6 -0d by gatr or consistantly lose their win condition because of it.
Mespirit is on a different level then gatr imo considering how difficult it is to play around and how it has the ability to destroy things that would be a switch in to a differtent set. On top of that it's a reliable rock setter :/



Although this is true defensive xatu can live pretty consistantly nd then roost to make rock blast less effective. If they keep staying in then you can set up a few calm minds if you are using that set.



No.... no it doesn't lol XD

0 Atk Ferroseed Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 84-100 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery



That relies a bit to much on hax tbh but it wouldn't matter anyway considering how easy it is to use heal bell/ aromatheropy in this tier with mons like uxie, plume, granbull. Ect. Quilfish can't afford to stay in or it will get bopped so roost is inevitable.



Not sure about thunderbolt but I know xatu can handle sludge bomb ok and start setting up calm minds. I think if u don't predict the switch then roost will take care of tbolt along with outspeeding xalm minds and psychic stab to scare dragalge away.



This is true u can never be to careful. Xatu switches into its stab sludge bomb pretty well and can bounce back WoW and t-spikes.



Rhydon don't give no fucks anyway. You def can't switch xatu in on that fucker unless u hope to get lucky.



Just saying after the initial knock off they can't do enough damage to bring below 50% it can start setting up or just flat out be at full HP for the next switch.

Well all your calculations for CM defensive Xatum just keep in ñind it can do other sets as well as defensive CM and if thast set doesnt pack heat wave, ferro walls it
+2 0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 70-83 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 96% chance to 4HKO while Xatu is 4HKOed

Also GL trying to roost off if it gets 5 hits vs Crsutle

252 Atk Crustle Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 186-222 (55.6 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Garbodor Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 132-162 (39.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Garbo can 2HKO with 4 hits qnd it cqn even explode qfter thqt if it reqlly wqnts to get rid of xatu

The P jab thingy on Quil is true but it its a suicide set i can just D bond your xatu away.

Its also true it can roost off the knock off damage and be at full health vs the switch in but it ll lack its iteñ so hes already at a disadvantagee.
252+ Atk Sandslash Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And true it can roost off Dragalge Sludge boñb or Tbolt, if it is a defensive dragalge, if its a specs one, Xatu is dead probably.

Finally Weezing isnt a common spike setter so thats more a ñatchup vs a wall than a hazard setter.

Im not saying Xatu isnt good or anything but you certainly cannot just szitch it in willingly without scouting a bit of yoiur opponents set as you can pay a high price. Didnt do the calcs for Calm or Timid xXatus but if defensive takes the hits ñediocrely those other setswont take it nicely either.

 

[Dentricos]

The vast majority of the Pokemon used to check Feraligatr aren't only used for Gatr. There's so much stuff that they will switch into and they are bound to get worn down, which just makes it easier for Gatr lol. That's why you often see Gatr with stuff that forces in its checks or that can easily beat them since most of Gatr's checks and 'counters' do not have reliable recovery.

If you think you can just keep your Grass-types in the back and expect to never have to bring them in until Gatr comes in.. you are damn wrong.

You don't really need to keep them in the back for them to stay in good health. However gatr on the other hand will need to stay in decent shape for it to be most effective.

It certainly is a very good mon, nobody can deny that, but in order to be S rank you have to be a bit more then very good...

 

[Dentricos]

Well all your calculations for CM defensive Xatum just keep in ñind it can do other sets as well as defensive CM and if thast set doesnt pack heat wave, ferro walls it
+2 0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 70-83 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 96% chance to 4HKO while Xatu is 4HKOed

Also GL trying to roost off if it gets 5 hits vs Crsutle

252 Atk Crustle Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 186-222 (55.6 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Garbodor Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 132-162 (39.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Garbo can 2HKO with 4 hits qnd it cqn even explode qfter thqt if it reqlly wqnts to get rid of xatu

The P jab thingy on Quil is true but it its a suicide set i can just D bond your xatu away.

Its also true it can roost off the knock off damage and be at full health vs the switch in but it ll lack its iteñ so hes already at a disadvantagee.
252+ Atk Sandslash Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And true it can roost off Dragalge Sludge boñb or Tbolt, if it is a defensive dragalge, if its a specs one, Xatu is dead probably.

Finally Weezing isnt a common spike setter so thats more a ñatchup vs a wall than a hazard setter.

Im not saying Xatu isnt good or anything but you certainly cannot just szitch it in willingly without scouting a bit of yoiur opponents set as you can pay a high price. Didnt do the calcs for Calm or Timid xXatus but if defensive takes the hits ñediocrely those other setswont take it nicely either.

I only have tried the defensive calm mind set with psyshock, heat wave, and roost lol.

Garbodor can't kill it either way and since rock type isn't se after a roost the recovery is a given. If crustle doesn't hit all five times it is also a problem.

Also yeah xatu isn't a 100% reliable switch in to dragalge I'll give u that XD

 

[kay]

Well all your calculations for CM defensive Xatum just keep in ñind it can do other sets as well as defensive CM and if thast set doesnt pack heat wave, ferro walls it
+2 0 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 70-83 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- 96% chance to 4HKO while Xatu is 4HKOed

The standard CM Xatu set has heat wave. And even if it doesn't run heat wave for ferroseed, you can just pp stall the gyro balls and set up on it. Ferro isn't a good stop to Xatu.

Also for your point about knock off, Colbur is almost standard on it.

 

[Kiyo]

The standard CM Xatu set with with heat wave. And even if it doesn't run heat wave for ferroseed, you can just pp stall the gyro balls and set up on it. Ferro isn't a good stop to Xatu.

Also for your point about knock off, Colbur is almost standard on it.

i'd disagree with colbur being standard, leftovers is probably most common followed by rocky helmet. you dont really need colbur to beat anything since spiritomb left its really only good for a potential surprise kill on sawk, other than that you beat everything that carrys knock off already (mainly seismitoad and hariyama)

EDIT:
Rocky Helmet 33.755% | | Colbur Berry 27.274% | | Leftovers 22.861% those are the actual stats, and while i feel that leftovers is still the best item only 1/4 of xatus are running colbur and i'd venture a guess that most of them are offensive xatus

 

[Punchshroom]

The fact that people run checks and counters to Feraligatr doesn't make it more solidly S-rank. The more a metagame adapts to a Pokemon, the less effective it is, which is why Feraligatr isn't even very good anymore. Teddeh is totally right that unprepared teams get steamrolled by Feraligatr. Unprepared teams also get steamrolled by Mr. Mime and Swoobat. That argument is terrible. It's one of the most used Pokemon in NU. People prepare for it.

It does still stand as one of the most solid wincons in NU. There is also the fact that most SD Gatr checks can get sideswiped by the DD set, which can make it trickier to respond to, compared to Typhlosion and Mesprit which don't seem to have much set variants that are nearly as punishing. The slight shift towards offense I detect in the meta (especially the Fire-type influx) only seems to play into Gatr's favor.

You can't just slap a Feraligatr on a team and expect results. The same cannot be said for Mesprit or Typhlosion, which both have viable ways of beating their own checks and counters. Natural Gift Feraligatr is nothing more than a shitty gimmick, while Extrasensory Typhlosion and HP Fighting Mesprit are both fine sets.

Well yes, that usually is what happens whenever I slap a Gatr onto my team. Even if Gatr can't find time to set up, the SD set can check things with Aqua Jet or function as a good physical tank that can effectively trade blows, while the DD set can make use of its wider arsenal of coverage moves to make it more difficult to switch into. Being a Water-type with good neutral bulk and has ways to get around that middling speed helps a lot in that respect.

Feraligatr is weak without Life Orb (or while in Torrent range) and easier to take out with it, so it absolutely needs a decent amount of support before sweeping a significant portion of the metagame. Its movepool is hardly diverse, with Crunch hitting like two things the rest of its coverage can't, Superpower hitting only Ferroseed, Natural Gift hitting one check one time, etc.

Crunch is honestly rather worthless since its two targets (Frillish and Shedinja) are hardly relevant at all. I wholeheartedly disagree with Gatr's coverage not being diverse, as access to moves such as Ice Punch, Earthquake, and Superpower (better than SD Samurott's coverage) can make a good deal of Gatr checks pause (only Poliwrath and Tangela can switch in with complete impunity), not to mention the threat of them being boosted in power.

Feraligatr is the most reliable Water-type sweeper in the tier, but that doesn't make it S-rank.

Praytell, what would one of the most effective / dangerous late-game sweepers need more to be S Rank? It's honestly one of the easier setup sweepers in the tier to support (given Probopass's popularity in trapping Seeds), while the Fire-type mons can prove to be just as effective wallbreaking allies as they are easy Gatr targets.

 

[Pooch13]

I only have tried the defensive calm mind set with psyshock, heat wave, and roost lol.

Garbodor can't kill it either way and since rock type isn't se after a roost the recovery is a given. If crustle doesn't hit all five times it is also a problem.

Also yeah xatu isn't a 100% reliable switch in to dragalge I'll give u that XD

If itsthesuicide lead garbo set it can rockblast then explode and seeing how explode does 70 % ... And those calcs were for crustle hitting 3 times not 5 lol . Btw stone edge crustle can cause him more troubles but i prefer rock blast so i went for that.

The standard CM Xatu set has heat wave. And even if it doesn't run heat wave for ferroseed, you can just pp stall the gyro balls and set up on it. Ferro isn't a good stop to Xatu.

Also for your point about knock off, Colbur is almost standard on it.

I thought the standard set runned dazzling gleam as psychic/fire is resisted by grumpig lol but still it just forces ferro out but there are many mons that can switch in and 1hko (rock bird thingy) but i see your point.

sg edit: how does Grumpig even beat CM Xatu lol

Also i agree that colbur is not the main item haha i KNOW you love colbjr with a passion kay but lefties is optimal as it ll be more usefull than colbur on more scenarios.

 

[kay]

Rocky Helmet 33.755% | | Colbur Berry 27.274% | | Leftovers 22.861%

Colbur gets more use then lefties on Xatu in NU. So it's not just me ;)

And people don't run D-Gleam since Tomb left the meta. Heat Wave/ Giga Drain have since taken it's place.

 

[Kiyo]

Rocky Helmet 33.755% | | Colbur Berry 27.274% | | Leftovers 22.861%

Colbur gets more use then lefties on Xatu in NU. So it's not just me ;)

And people don't run D-Gleam since Tomb left the meta. Heat Wave/ Giga Drain have since taken it's place.

yes but not all xatu's are defensive xatu's... i'd like to think around 50% of the offensive xatus run life orb and the other half run colbur. at least enough run colbur that those stats are skewed from the xatu set we've been discussing. also basically no one runs giga drain on defensive xatu because while it gives you an easier time with toad, you're still walled by things in the tier such as pawniard and ferro. again if you're looking at the usage stats thats more than likely an offensive xatu running giga opposed to a defensive one.

 

[kay]

I personally run Giga Drain when I feel the need to make sure hazards stay off my side of the field. I wouldn't jump as far to say that no one runs it.

And you're right in that offensive Xatu do run Colbur around 50% of the time, giving more of a sample size for Colbur to take 27% usage. But that doesn't take away the point that Colbur are on a lot of CM Xatus, and are one of the 3 items they run. Thus they should be taken into consideration.

 

[Teddeh]

Roight, something i've just noticed and it needs changing in my opinion.
Musharna B -> A-/A/A+
Well most of you know that musharna is S rank in PU, and I've used it enough in NU to realise that with little team support, you can sweep the majority of things in the tier and in my opinion is the most reliable calm mind setup sweeper. Now I really don't want Mushy to get popular, but it's sad seeing it sat at B rank when it deserves a hell of a lot more credit.
For starters, do you want a switch in to Archeops? a rare thing in this tier? Acrobatics does around 45% MAX to a mushy where it can recover with moonlight and reply with psyshock doing a solid 50% hitting it into defeatist. Kanga? Setup fodder. frustration from silk scarf kanga does 35% and double edge does 44%, meaning you can moonlight up any damage done.
Now that's just the first real overview of mushy but there are so many more things it can do. It's such a widely diverse pokemon that it can do anything really aswell as be a SOLID switch in to every psychic setup sweeper such as mesprit, xatu, uxie and can beat them in calm mind wars by taking less damage from psyshock and doing more in return.
It has a wide variety of sets, calm mind sweeper with heal bell, calm mind baton pass, curse pass, defensive mon with access to t-wave, heal bell, toxic, reliable recovery and a variety of moves. Hell, you could even run charge beam as coverage and run it with psychic stab as the boosting move. It's too diverse.
It's still just as safe a switch in to fighting types as you can switch it in happily on hariyama, scarf sawk, gurdurr. knock off doesn't do nearly enough unless they are banded or at +1 with guts etc. Either way, Musharna needs more love, it's too good in this tier and is amazing on balance, stall and even hyper offense with its curse + calm mind passing.
In all honesty, it's even better this gen since you don't have liepard pursuit trapping on every team, in fact I never see pursuit. It's so strong in the current meta and needs to be higher.

 

[Ares]

Roight, something i've just noticed and it needs changing in my opinion.
Musharna B -> A-/A/A+
Well most of you know that musharna is S rank in PU, and I've used it enough in NU to realise that with little team support, you can sweep the majority of things in the tier and in my opinion is the most reliable calm mind setup sweeper. Now I really don't want Mushy to get popular, but it's sad seeing it sat at B rank when it deserves a hell of a lot more credit.
For starters, do you want a switch in to Archeops? a rare thing in this tier? Acrobatics does around 45% MAX to a mushy where it can recover with moonlight and reply with psyshock doing a solid 50% hitting it into defeatist. Kanga? Setup fodder. frustration from silk scarf kanga does 35% and double edge does 44%, meaning you can moonlight up any damage done.
Now that's just the first real overview of mushy but there are so many more things it can do. It's such a widely diverse pokemon that it can do anything really aswell as be a SOLID switch in to every psychic setup sweeper such as mesprit, xatu, uxie and can beat them in calm mind wars by taking less damage from psyshock and doing more in return.
It has a wide variety of sets, calm mind sweeper with heal bell, calm mind baton pass, curse pass, defensive mon with access to t-wave, heal bell, toxic, reliable recovery and a variety of moves. Hell, you could even run charge beam as coverage and run it with psychic stab as the boosting move. It's too diverse.
It's still just as safe a switch in to fighting types as you can switch it in happily on hariyama, scarf sawk, gurdurr. knock off doesn't do nearly enough unless they are banded or at +1 with guts etc. Either way, Musharna needs more love, it's too good in this tier and is amazing on balance, stall and even hyper offense with its curse + calm mind passing.
In all honesty, it's even better this gen since you don't have liepard pursuit trapping on every team, in fact I never see pursuit. It's so strong in the current meta and needs to be higher.

While I agree with Musharna moving up, I think that it is not quite good enough to breach the A ranks. It is worn down way to easily through out a match, some of the stuff you listed that it can set up on can easily 2HKO it with either a status or hazards. Also your point about it being S rank in PU is irrelevant, the rankings of another tier dont affect the tiering of NU. Pretty much I support a rise to B+.

 

[Teddeh]

While I agree with Musharna moving up, I think that it is not quite good enough to breach the A ranks. It is worn down way to easily through out a match, some of the stuff you listed that it can set up on can easily 2HKO it with either a status or hazards. Also your point about it being S rank in PU is irrelevant, the rankings of another tier dont affect the tiering of NU. Pretty much I support a rise to B+.

Well consider the best set is the heal bell set and if used correctly with support, it can easily check these mons, no problem. Consider they don't normally have mons that can deal with them reliably in the tier and have recovery / sweeping oppurtunities, mushy fills that niche perfectly in the current meta.

 

[Deej Dy]

Also consider the heal bell set is setup fodder for ANY dark type in the tier, which makes it easy to abuse. The baton pass set isn't bad as you can pass out boosts when they switch in a dark type, but speed is still a concern and a taunter (Missy for example) can easily annihilate Musharna once it cant recover or set up.
Competition from the Psychic gods Uxie/Mesprit doesn't help either.
B+ sounds like a suitable rank, as i don't think mushy has moved since Shiftry left, as it should have.

 

[Teddeh]

Also consider the heal bell set is setup fodder for ANY dark type in the tier, which makes it easy to abuse. The baton pass set isn't bad as you can pass out boosts when they switch in a dark type, but speed is still a concern and a taunter (Missy for example) can easily annihilate Musharna once it cant recover or set up.
Competition from the Psychic gods Uxie/Mesprit doesn't help either.
B+ sounds like a suitable rank, as i don't think mushy has moved since Shiftry left, as it should have.

Deej, there is malamar, pawniard and liepard to worry about. There aren't any other dark types in the tier to worry about now spiritomb is gone, which makes this pokemon so deadly at the moment. And competition pfft, it should be up their with uxie and mesprit in my opinion since it has more bulk, more recovery options and more power. Yes it's slow, but the bulk makes up for it 10 fold.