Celever
no longer hibernating
Armaldo is bad. Do not use Armaldo. Cryogonal is by far the best spinner in the tier, and Torkoal is the best spinner for phazing or stall teams. Sandslash is probably best for balanced teams. Armaldo just shouldn't be used lol.I would like to seeFlappy birdPelipper move up to C+ or even B-.
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Hurricane/Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
I'm probably going to be made fun of because of this, but hear me out. There's actually a legitimate reason to use Pelipper: Defog. Shiftry is gone, and hazard spammers like Crustle, Qwilfish and Ferroseed are running rampant in the tier. There's only a few other good Defoggers in the tier (Vullaby, Togetic, Swanna) and like two usable spinners (Sandslash and Armaldo). Spinning kinda sucks because they can't beat Spiritomb who's everywhere, and either way these spinners are pretty bad in general.
All Klinklang run Wind Charge, lol. And Swanna actually has power against things like Gurdurr and Hariyama, and is one of the best checks or counters I've found for Gurdurr in the tier. I think you are underestimating how good Pelipper actually is against these Fighting-Type Pokémon, since it doesn't OHKO them. While this may not matter as it is quite bulky, the unreliability of Hurricane and the fact that pretty much every Fighting-Type can learn Thunder Punch to counter the thing leaves it some to be desired as a counter. Also the rest of this argument is fairly unneeded. You wouldn't use Pelipper on an offensive team just as you wouldn't use Swanna on a defensive team; they go two-in-two, as one outclasses the other depending on the team archetype. The Knock Off argument also doesn't matter that much because the point of having these Pokémon on your team is getting rid of hazards for the rest of your Pokémon to switch in all the time (besides Swanna, who would be on an offensive team and would also require switching often). Togetic and Vullaby resist Knock Off and don't take too much damage from it, but more importantly it gives them a chance to use Defog. Plus, Swanna isn't even reliant on Life Orb. I pack a Damp Rock variant on my main team and it still does more than enough damage lol.As for Defoggers, there's Swanna who's very similar to Pelipper except it trades bulk for speed and power. While that can be useful, Pelippers bulk allows it to check things like Klinklang without Wild Charge and come in easier on stuff like Gurdurr and Hariyama. Pelipper is also great at absorbing Knock Off, unlike Vullaby and Togetic who really hate losing their Eviolite. And Swanna without Life Orb is pretty much a worse Pelipper, not to mention Knock Off does over half so you have to either Defog, Roost up but you also want to keep offensive pressure and attack because that's the whole point of using Swanna over Pelipper. All of that is less of an issue for Pelipper.
I also noticed how you deigned to mention Drifblim in this paragraph, who is Pelipper's biggest competition and is the highest ranked Defogger in NU right now. Drifblim does fit best on balanced teams (which is a team archetype Pelipper also fits well on) but trades sheer bulk for utility. But Drifblim also has good bulk. Drifblim is B-, but is better than Pelipper except for on fully defensive teams where Togetic or Vullaby probably outclass this pelican. Not to say that Pelipper doesn't fit on certain teams and can't perform well, I'm just saying that it gets a little bit lost in all of the other defoggers in the tier.
You know who also beat Rhydon and Crustle? Swanna and Drifblim. Drifblim burns them pretty much nullifying them for the rest of the match outside of the fairly rare clerics in the tier. Swanna has much more offensive presence than Pelipper, something which you acknowledged above.Pelipper also has a Water-typing allowing it to beat stuff like Rhydon and Crustle better than the other two bulky birds (Vullaby and Togetic), and it has good offensive presence with Scald and Hurricane (the other two have like no offensive presence whatsoever).
Actually, from experience, Swanna is somewhat bulky just by virtue of typing. You just have to use it well, but the reward is higher than Pelipper because it dishes out damage faster. Also, you mention here that being able to switch is important to a support Pokémon. I don't see how the set you listed above is support. It looks more like an offensive defogger set to me. If you use Knock Off is could be classified as Support I guess, but that set looks quite poor in practice because Surf doesn't pack enough power coming off of a Pelipper, and Knock Off packs no power coming off of a Pelipper, lol. Drifblim is a support or utility Pokémon, packing status moves, Haze/Clear Smog, Destiny Bond and the like, and if you want a Defog Support Pokémon you should go for Drifblim. If you want a defensive defogger for a stall team you should go for Togetic or Vullaby. If you want an offensive defogger you should go for Swanna. If you are on a bulky offense team you should go for either Drifblim or Pelipper, and the same goes for balance. But Drifblim is better than Pelipper about 70% of the time... That's why Drifblim is two ranks higher than Pelipper right now, and that's why it should stay that way lol.There's probably people going to say that Swanna is better than Pelipper, but Pelipper does have to advantage of being able to switch in on stuff while Swanna gets wrecked by anything really because its so frail. And that's very important for a support mon, especially a Defogger that needs to come in repeatedly to keep hazards of the field for the whole duration of the game. Both mons have an excellent defensive typing (look at Gyarados for example) as well as Roost, but only Pelipper has the stats to make good use out of it. Pelipper fulfills the support role better, while Swanna is better offensively. It's not really fair to compare the two.
Also it seems quite apparent to me that you've never used a Swanna. I agree with you that it is silly comparing the two, but you are seriously down talking it. If I could have my way I would put Swanna a rank above Pelipper, because after using both I find Swanna to be the better Water/Flying Defogger, but I can see both arguments and I think they should be in the same rank.
Mentioning Lumineon is pointless, no one would have brought it up. Mantine is better for bulky offensive defogging because it's more powerful, and not having reliable recovery isn't very detrimental on a bulky offense team. Because of Roost, Pelipper is the best Water/Flying Defogger for stall or mostly defensive teams, I will give you that. For bulky offense and balance it suffers harsh competition from Mantine and Drifblim, but mainly Drifblim for balance and Mantine for bulky offense. For offensive teams it is almost completely outclassed by Swanna and LO Swift Swim variants of Mantine. BTW, please don't put Mantine on the same level as Lumineon again, as Mantine is better than Armaldo, which you listed above as being one of the best spinners in the tier.I guess there's Mantine and Lumineon, but they don't have reliable recovery. Lumineon is awful besides Defog, while Mantine has much more special bulk but lacks recovery besides Rest-Talk which makes Pelipper the better choice overall. Pelipper forSC+/B-.
Basically, Pelipper shouldn't move up. This isn't because it is a bad Pokémon, per se, it is because it has difficult standing out in this tier. It is at least partially outclassed at almost all teams it tries to fit on, and on the ones where it is not outclassed it faces stiff competition. The main times I can see Pelipper being used are to check Knock Off, honestly. But then again, Pelipper is pretty darn weak as is since most Knock Off users are bulky. You'd be better off taking the hit with an offensive Pokémon and KO'ing the Knock Off user back. Pelipper can be a good Pokémon, but it has difficult standing out, which is why it is a good fit for C rank.
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Yellow Cheese just pointed out that Pelipper is in C+ rank now. Nominating Pelipper for C rank for the reasoning listed above.
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