XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)

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No, definitely not. Lucario will get banned to Ubers before it ever goes to UU. And if it ever does, then it will probably be banned faster than Landorus. With a Swords dance set, it will have priority Bullet Punch, and with a Nasty Plot set, it will swipe through teams with Vacum Punch. Not to mention its many options once it's main threats are gone.
But it's different then landorus as though it is versitile and powerfull, it can be countered by what set luke is running. For example, the physical set can be countered easily by deticated physical tanks such as phyisicaly deffensive swampert, hippowdown, arcanine, doublade, mega aggron and non-crunch variants are beaten by slowbro, jellisent, victini. And the special variant can be counterd by special tanks like again, jelliscent, assult vest slowbro, zados or even cresslia. As for checks, without it's mega evolution it's not the fastest(base 90 speed) pokemon or the bulkiest. So unless it caries priority like extreme speed (which it most likely will) it can be beaten by scarf users like rotom-h, jirachi, darmantian, victini, magnezone, mienshao or priority users like CB crawduant, diggersby or genually fast pokemon can beat it. All the pokemon stated in bold letters can counter/check it depending on what set it is running. You just gotta know what set it is running (which is the hard part..).
 
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Lucario's base 90 speed and frailty makes it hard to sweep with relying on base 40 priority moves TBH. Anything that can tank a hit and has a ground/fire type coverage move can KO it. I think it would be pretty balanced and an interesting drop if it does indeed drop in like april/may(Most feasible time for drop IMO)
 
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Arkian

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I honestly can see Lucario dropping from OU if Lucarionite gets banned (it probably will). In UU, it will definitely be one of the premiere Fighting-types (Megacham will go sooner or later, whether it be by ban or moving up to OU usage). It can run two very effective boosting sets and has the correct moves to utilize them with. Slowbro and Doublade will be a massive pain for sets that use Crunch < Extreme Speed or Vacuum Wave < Dark Pulse. Justified is also an excellent ability to have, and will probably make it the best Weavile check in the tier. Lucario's Speed tier is unfortunately lacking though, and Agility sets are kinda weak imo. Overall, Lucario will be a very useful late-game sweeper, but not an overpowering one.

As for Salamence, this thing will be a menace in UU. It can run many effective sets; from Dragon Dance sweeping sets to ScarfMoxie cleaners. Heck, it might even be able to successfully use a defensive set with Intimidate and Wish. It has huge offenses and a decent Speed tier, which lets it act as a very nice mixed attacker. The only thing that I can see effectively stopping Salamence would be Florges and Mega Gardevoir, and both can actually be beaten by a +1 Earthquake (._.) Ice Beam might actually become a common move for Slowbro to use, or else it will be fishing for a Scald burn, and if it doesn't get it, Salamence can very well sweep through the remains of its team. Overall, I personally do feel that Salamence would be overpowered in UU since it has virtually no counters (aside from Ice Beam Slowbro, but then again, even that only has a 68.8% chance to OHKO a healthy Mence).

What I DO want to drop, though, is Sableye. Sableye counters Mega Medicham very well, and also soft checks many other dangerous physical attackers like Diggersby and Haxorus with priority Will-O-Wisp. However, Sableye dropping to UU will make UU even more anti-stall. Sableye did gain a weakness to Fairy-types though, and Florges, a common Pokemon on stall teams, beats it easily as well, although it doesn't like burn's residual damage or being locked into Moonblast for three turns. Even Mega Gardevoir can counter it since it isn't 2HKOed by Foul Play and easily OHKOes back with Hyper Voice. Still, Sableye would make an excellent stop to a lot of the physical Pokemon running throughout the tier.

On another note, I have been wondering which Pokemon is better: Assault Vest Metagross or Assault Vest Escavalier. They both have their pros and cons, but honestly I just do eenie meenie minie mo to see which one I should use ._. What are your opinions one which is better?
 
My overall opinion on several potential drops
Lucario- See above post

Salamence- I think that Salamence could be broken. While we don't really know without testing it, Mence has 135/110/100 offenses which are REALLY good. Pretty much the only reason why it's even on the border is because of so many new dragons among other factors (Megazard X says hi) but either way its offenses are going to make an impact. It's speed tier while not very good for OU, (Lol 100 speed not being good anymore:pirate:) is still good for UU especially with so many opportunities to set up DD. Also, unlike Haxorus, it has a very usable special attacking stat to allow it to get by physical walls hence making it even more threading than Haxorus. Additionally, it has moxie for icing on the cake. Status=BL

Forretress- The defog buff has really hurt the iron pinecone because setting up hazards isn't as safe as it once was. It will also have to compete with top-tier established spikers like Roserade and Chesnaught who bring offense to the table as well. Not all things are looking bad for it because it can still rapid spin/set-up all hazards except sticky web. Additionally, it has base 140 defense so it can be a solid physical wall. It does't have reliable recovery unfortunately and setting up hazards IS its main job and that is just getting harder to do. Status=UU(Middle tier threat)

Sableye- Just annoying. Nuff said. Status=UU (Top tier most likely)

Thundurus- If it's A+ on the OU viability ranking thread, I shudder to think what it can do in UU… Status=BL

Starmie- I think that Starmie would be pretty balanced. It has really nice speed (115) and a usable special attacking stat (100). It would be good as a fast rapid spinner but I think it's greatest set would be offensive LO. Starmie has GREAT coverage and with 115 speed behind it, it could be difficult to stop. Unfortunately, psychic typing is kinda a drag these days and it isn't exactly bulky. The pro's still definitely out weigh the cons however. Status= UU top tier

Tentacruel- Tentacruel would be a really interesting drop. It has a really nice special defense stat, and can Rapid spin and set up toxic spikes. It's typing is pretty good defensively too. It has a low defense stat however and its offenses are kinda low and it just doesn't seem like it will have a place in the metagame. Status= UU (Middle-low tier)

I know that there are potential drops that I missed but these are the most likely in the coming months because people will still use things like Trevanant and Galv and Smeargle even if they aren't that viable because that's just how the ladder works.
 

nv

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My overall opinion on several potential drops
Lucario- See above post

Salamence- I think that Salamence could be broken. While we don't really know without testing it, Mence has 135/110/100 offenses which are REALLY good. Pretty much the only reason why it's even on the border is because of so many new dragons among other factors (Megazard X says hi) but either way its offenses are going to make an impact. It's speed tier while not very good for OU, (Lol 100 speed not being good anymore:pirate:) is still good for UU especially with so many opportunities to set up DD. Also, unlike Haxorus, it has a very usable special attacking stat to allow it to get by physical walls hence making it even more threading than Haxorus. Additionally, it has moxie for icing on the cake. Status=BL

Forretress- The defog buff has really hurt the iron pinecone because setting up hazards isn't as safe as it once was. It will also have to compete with top-tier established spikers like Roserade and Chesnaught who bring offense to the table as well. Not all things are looking bad for it because it can still rapid spin/set-up all hazards except sticky web. Additionally, it has base 140 defense so it can be a solid physical wall. It does't have reliable recovery unfortunately and setting up hazards IS its main job and that is just getting harder to do. Status=UU(Middle tier threat)

Sableye- Just annoying. Nuff said. Status=UU (Top tier most likely)

Thundurus- If it's A+ on the OU viability ranking thread, I shudder to think what it can do in UU… Status=BL

Starmie- I think that Starmie would be pretty balanced. It has really nice speed (115) and a usable special attacking stat (100). It would be good as a fast rapid spinner but I think it's greatest set would be offensive LO. Starmie has GREAT coverage and with 115 speed behind it, it could be difficult to stop. Unfortunately, psychic typing is kinda a drag these days and it isn't exactly bulky. The pro's still definitely out weigh the cons however. Status= UU top tier

Tentacruel- Tentacruel would be a really interesting drop. It has a really nice special defense stat, and can Rapid spin and set up toxic spikes. It's typing is pretty good defensively too. It has a low defense stat however and its offenses are kinda low and it just doesn't seem like it will have a place in the metagame. Status= UU (Middle-low tier)

I know that there are potential drops that I missed but these are the most likely in the coming months because people will still use things like Trevanant and Galv and Smeargle even if they aren't that viable because that's just how the ladder works.
Here are my thoughts:
Lucario- Hell no. Keep it in OU.

Forretress- Seems legit. A great spinner/hazard setter for stall. UU for sure.

Sableye- Still annoying af. Was UU last gen, will most likely make it to UU this gen as well (plus nothing helped it in the gen shift...if anything it hindered with it gaining a weakness and all).

Thundurus- Hell no. Keep in OU please.

Starmie- Would be a great addition to UU for HO teams. Beats the current speed tier (sitting at 108) and destroys Keldeo (a main UU threat atm). Here's Calc:

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 312-369 (96.5 - 114.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 224-264 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Tentacruel- I feel this would be a great addition to UU as another bulky spinner that doesn't take up a mega-slot (looking at you, MegaToise, <_<). However, what really killed this poke was the weather nerf so I doubt it could even do well in UU but who knows.

I am curious to see the drops once they are revealed.
 
He is one of the best offensive Mega? The 135 base isn't that impressive compared to other Megas. Sure, it's hands down the best spinner allowed in UU but:
1. That doesn't say much.
2. It TAKES up the Mega Slot. This may sound like an RBY in-game discussion, but Venusaur and Charizard both are a lot better as a defensive and offensive Mega respectively. Also, it just occurred to me we should probably not discuss potential drops/rises.
WTF no this is so wrong

Mega Launcher effectively gives STAB on all the relevant coverage moves that Blastoise will want to run (Aura Sphere, Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse), with the exception of Ice Beam. This pretty much gives Blastoise a relevant niche already (hint: he basically hits harder than a Pokemon of the same SpAtk running a Life Orb), especially when Dark Pulse laughs in the face of spinblockers.

The mega argument can pretty much be argued for every mega around. Should we say that Mega Absol is shit because it prevents you from running Mega Medicham? Is Jolteon better than Mega Manectric just so that I can run Mega Gardevoir? Every damn mega in the game has an opportunity cost tied to it, so this shouldn't be a point against Blastoise.

Blastoise may not be the best choice for a mega, but what's important is that Blastoise does his damn job effectively as a spinner.

Back on topic...

re: possible drops

Salamence - very interesting drop. Salamence has a very good movepool and excellent offensive stats, as well as a couple of great abilities. Of course, it's really hard to say whether its broken: given that going mixed was one of Salamence's best niches in the past, I can see that being a good option here too. Of course, there's Kyurem, but his movepool is god awful, so...

Forry - Best non-HP Fire Roserade counter, between x4 resist to Grass, immunity to poison, and Overcoat to block Sleep Powder. Other than that, it's a decent switchin to all the fairy types in the tier. Still dies to Gardevoir though.

Luke - I'm really really doubting this will drop, but if it does it'll be a threatening addition. 110/115 offenses are great and guessing the wrong set is bound to be painful. Rohail does kind of show what Luke's impact on the meta will be though

Sableye - lolfuckyougodieinahole

Donphan - no shit. Donphan doesn't really perform much in UU, losing to the best spikestacker in the tier, and having really severe competition in the form of his fellow spinners and Mega Blastoise, and all the random defoggers like Crobat and Latias. Maybe Donphan can do something. IDK.

Thundurus - He's not really very bulky, but Prankster Thunder Wave will be very infuriating to face. Brings a ton of support to slower teams. I dont think it'll be as stupid as Landorus, but its still worth a look.

Starmie - Basically a weaker but faster version of Blastoise. Possibly a decent tradeoff, given that Blastoise's speed is pretty meh for the tier.

Tentacruel - Eh, I don't mind. Bulky spinners are never a bad thing, and Tentacruel brings a lot of it to the table. A decent addition. Toxic Spikes is also helpful: a reasonable alternative to Roserade.
 
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Ununhexium

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salamence: will end up BL imo. ive used him well in OU and he will just smash teams to bits in UU

forry: he will be good in UU but he will not be broken. he will finally be at home

lucario: ok can someone please explain to me why this was used in OU like ever. its slow and its attacking stats arent way to crazy either. it will be decent in UU i guess but eh

sableye: annoying as ever, sableye is a tough call it might end up in BL imo

donphan: lol

thundurus: i havent played with him much so i cant really say

starmie: he will fit in fine with UU. he will be a major pokemon that teams need to prepare for, but he wont be broken

tentacruel: with the fall of weather, he may drop to UU. he will do fine as bulky spinners are always welcome. also, toxic spikes are always nice (can he learn spikes i always forget)

EDIT: on a different note how is mega banette. he doesnt seem very good to me
 
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EDIT: on a different note how is mega banette. he doesnt seem very good to me
It's not, and if Sableye drops there will be even less of a reason to run it.

Priority Destiny Bond is the only reason you'd want to run it, and that's not enough of a reason if it means you can't run the far more powerful megas. I tried to use it but the only thing it could accomplish consistently was bringing something down with it.
 
There's no chance in hell Sableye is gonna be BL. It wasn't even close to overpowered last gen, and this gen has a new typing that can hurt Sableye badly. Victini/Darm are still relevant and are immune to WoW (2 of the biggest checks to Sableye last gen). We also have a very nice cleric in Florges that can undo any burns Sableye does as well as threatening it out with a Fairy STAB.

I'm just hoping the rapid spinners find their way down here. There are just so few good rapid spinners in UU, and there's some chance that OU will take our good rapid spinner away from us. Last gen, rapid spinners were kinda overvalued so you got stuff like Donphan sitting in OU. That was understandable as non-water rapid spinners were a rarity. But this gen, you've got excellent defoggers as well as excellent spinners in Blastoise and Excadrill. I mean, I can see how Donphan and Forry can fit into an OU team, but I'm just kinda surprised that these guys see so much usage. I see them as kinda niche. They can fit into the right team, but they don't fit into enough teams to justify OU usage. Blastoise, Starmie and Exca are just so much easier to fit on teams that I'm a bit surprised that anyone other than those 3 find their way above the OU cutoff

Which megas do you think are gonna fall into RU? I don't really see any megas that are bad in UU (well, I don't really know how to use Banette, that's a tricky one), but there are gonna be the ones that fall down. Kinda like how stuff like Blastoise and Medicham are excellent in OU, but they aren't universally game changing enough to be easily fittable onto a team.

I'm seeing Banette, Manectric and Ampharos in RU. These guys are all good enough for UU. They just won't make the cutoff
 

Aragorn the King

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It's not, and if Sableye drops there will be even less of a reason to run it.

Priority Destiny Bond is the only reason you'd want to run it, and that's not enough of a reason if it means you can't run the far more powerful megas. I tried to use it but the only thing it could accomplish consistently was bringing something down with it.
Don't underestimate its offense; 165 Base Attack is amazing. It has better bulk than Sableye (if only slightly), has offensive potential, and has the same prankster abusable moves as sableye, in addition to Destiny Bond. The negatives are no recovery and costing a mega, but if you want to base a team around it I think it's better than Sableye.

There's no chance in hell Sableye is gonna be BL. It wasn't even close to overpowered last gen, and this gen has a new typing that can hurt Sableye badly. Victini/Darm are still relevant and are immune to WoW (2 of the biggest checks to Sableye last gen). We also have a very nice cleric in Florges that can undo any burns Sableye does as well as threatening it out with a Fairy STAB.

I'm just hoping the rapid spinners find their way down here. There are just so few good rapid spinners in UU, and there's some chance that OU will take our good rapid spinner away from us. Last gen, rapid spinners were kinda overvalued so you got stuff like Donphan sitting in OU. That was understandable as non-water rapid spinners were a rarity. But this gen, you've got excellent defoggers as well as excellent spinners in Blastoise and Excadrill. I mean, I can see how Donphan and Forry can fit into an OU team, but I'm just kinda surprised that these guys see so much usage. I see them as kinda niche. They can fit into the right team, but they don't fit into enough teams to justify OU usage. Blastoise, Starmie and Exca are just so much easier to fit on teams that I'm a bit surprised that anyone other than those 3 find their way above the OU cutoff

Which megas do you think are gonna fall into RU? I don't really see any megas that are bad in UU (well, I don't really know how to use Banette, that's a tricky one), but there are gonna be the ones that fall down. Kinda like how stuff like Blastoise and Medicham are excellent in OU, but they aren't universally game changing enough to be easily fittable onto a team.

I'm seeing Banette, Manectric and Ampharos in RU. These guys are all good enough for UU. They just won't make the cutoff
Currently the RU megas are, in order of usage, Ampharos, Houndoom, Banette, and Abombasnow. Manectric is actually #5, even above Absol. Additionally, with the banning of Mega Heracross, I'm guessing some of those four megas will rise in usage in February. Ampharos was close to making UU last month, and my guess is it (along with maybe Houndoom) will be saved from RU.
 
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There's no chance in hell Sableye is gonna be BL. It wasn't even close to overpowered last gen, and this gen has a new typing that can hurt Sableye badly. Victini/Darm are still relevant and are immune to WoW (2 of the biggest checks to Sableye last gen). We also have a very nice cleric in Florges that can undo any burns Sableye does as well as threatening it out with a Fairy STAB.

I'm just hoping the rapid spinners find their way down here. There are just so few good rapid spinners in UU, and there's some chance that OU will take our good rapid spinner away from us. Last gen, rapid spinners were kinda overvalued so you got stuff like Donphan sitting in OU. That was understandable as non-water rapid spinners were a rarity. But this gen, you've got excellent defoggers as well as excellent spinners in Blastoise and Excadrill. I mean, I can see how Donphan and Forry can fit into an OU team, but I'm just kinda surprised that these guys see so much usage. I see them as kinda niche. They can fit into the right team, but they don't fit into enough teams to justify OU usage. Blastoise, Starmie and Exca are just so much easier to fit on teams that I'm a bit surprised that anyone other than those 3 find their way above the OU cutoff

Which megas do you think are gonna fall into RU? I don't really see any megas that are bad in UU (well, I don't really know how to use Banette, that's a tricky one), but there are gonna be the ones that fall down. Kinda like how stuff like Blastoise and Medicham are excellent in OU, but they aren't universally game changing enough to be easily fittable onto a team.

I'm seeing Banette, Manectric and Ampharos in RU. These guys are all good enough for UU. They just won't make the cutoff
besides those three, the only other mega i can see falling is abomasnow
 
After Lucarionite is banned it's really likely that one or more of the megas in UU will rise up. Because of that, all of the other megas in UU will go to OU. Gardevoir, Blastoise and Medicham are all taking ~10% usage, if one or more of them leaves it'll make a lot of room for other megas. When everything settles down I can only see Banette and Abomasnow going to RU, both of them are just so underwhelming.
 
While everyone else is giving their opinions...

salamence: BL. Salamence is just far too dangerous. There is very little that can claim to stop salamence at +1 and of that, most pokemon that do are quite subpar, such as cresselia. Even megavoir and florges lose as Rohail already stated. If it does drop, weavile will get a decent usage spike to go along with it, as one of the best revenge killers (until some smart-arse thinks to use a yache berry...)

forry: Meh. I mean bug/steel is cool typing, but with defoggers and rapid spinner that can actually beat ghosts now, it still has its work cut out for it. Pain split just isn't enough for recovery when we have dangerous spikers like roserade. A slow volt switch looks tempting until one realises most ground types block it without fear.

lucario: I think the deal breaker for Lucario would be in terms of the number of pokemon that can outspeed it and tank a +2 Extreme Speed before revenging it. Luckily Luke has to run a jolly/timid nature in UU since there is a lot of max speed jolly/timid pokemon around the base 90 mark making adamant a poor choice (especially chandelure).

sableye: Perfectly fine. It's still enraging as ever but its never been something that can't be beaten. Special attackers are still going to make it run. Faeries as well now, come to think of it.

donphan: Honestly, I could see donphan going to RU. Unless you're building a team that can afford to run multiple ground pokemon, it just isn't worth a team slot. I only expect this to get any usage at all due to the SR/RS in the same set niche that claydol had. Sturdy just isn't a good enough reason, when you could use more reliable scarfed revenge killers.

thundurus: The biggest issue with thundurus will be trying to revenge-kill it. Off the top of my head, only 3 pokemon can outspeed while being immune to thunderwave, and none of them are good options (scarf flygon, raikou and jolteon for reference). If we did have this monster in UU, I'd be forseeing NP + 3 Attacks, NP T-wave or even the double boosting set Thundy-T runs. Plenty of way to score unpredictable kills with it, and I could see it headed back to BL, though I'm not certain on that.

starmie: Probably not broken, but will be difficult to deal with. Fantastic speed tier and a good amount of high powered coverage moves. Would make for yet another quality rapid spinner to enter the ranks of UU. Would really force a rethink for several fire and fighting types thinking to forgo a choice scarf. Reliable recovery is also nice.

tentacruel: Fine. Would be one of the few rapid spinners that can at least beat some variant of roserade, as defensive roserade will hate liquid ooze tentacruel. Typing is great but let down by lack of reliable recovery. Would be viable, but needs a bit of support to operate in UU (wish support at the top of the list).
 
Salamence - Looks like fun, but probably insta-ban. DD is too powerful, mixed WILL BREAK YOU, and Intimidate neuters physical attackers.
Forry - Good defensive spinner. It can set up all of the hazards, Rapid Spin, gain momentum with a slow Volt Switch, and just straight-up be a steel wall with utility.
Luke - I'm really really doubting this will drop, but it will be really good IF IT DOES. The Agility set you can't tell if it special or physical, the SD/NP break through walls, and it has great coverage.
Sableye - Please. I hate this. Just no.
Donphan - This can revenge dragons, hit hard with EQ, wall on the physically defensive side, set up SR, and tank Electric types. Not too outclassed.
Thundurus - Probably insta-ban. Not going to address.
Starmie - Only thing this has over the other two is BoltBeam, Psyshock, and speed. Recover could be useful if it was at all bulky.
Tentacruel - This looks interesting, but the only things it has over blastoise are it doesn't take up a Mega slot, and TSpikes.
 
With all this talk of ru, when will the beta version of it be playable on ps?
Also about fallers from ou, I could see all of them except for starmie and salamence. Both are too good for uu, idk how salamence is even being considered. It's like Haxorus but it hits an important speed tier, has the ability to run a mixed set, great coverage options and better abilities, along with the same movepool only better. And we all know how good Haxorus is. Starmie is a bit overshadowed by greninja, but it's typing, ability to spin, more resistance to priority, access to psychic, spin, and boltbeam keep it very viable and threatening. All the other drop candidates seem completely plausible. If Donphan trades ou with blastoise, roserade and Chesnaught are gonna go crazy in usage. They can set up their hazards much more freely without the threat of a strong ice beam by the spinner.
Please Donphan and Forretress come down and blastoise stay UU! We need spinners!
 
With all this talk of ru, when will the beta version of it be playable on ps?
Also about fallers from ou, I could see all of them except for starmie and salamence. Both are too good for uu, idk how salamence is even being considered. It's like Haxorus but it hits an important speed tier, has the ability to run a mixed set, great coverage options and better abilities, along with the same movepool only better. And we all know how good Haxorus is. Starmie is a bit overshadowed by greninja, but it's typing, ability to spin, more resistance to priority, access to psychic, spin, and boltbeam keep it very viable and threatening. All the other drop candidates seem completely plausible. If Donphan trades ou with blastoise, roserade and Chesnaught are gonna go crazy in usage. They can set up their hazards much more freely without the threat of a strong ice beam by the spinner.
Please Donphan and Forretress come down and blastoise stay UU! We need spinners!
When Molk decides.

Starmie isn't threatening. 100 Special Attack+Coverage=/=Broken in UU anymore. Roserade beats Blastoise regardless. Haxorus can't go mixed, but isn't easily revenge-killed like Mence. Salamence will probably be broken though.
 
Latias has 110 SpAttack, worse speed and has boltbeam+stab on Psyshock, and she seems to be fine in UU. Starmie's gonna be nice, but not broken.

I highly doubt Donphan would affect Roserade/Chesnaught usage. People run spinners in response to spikers, not the other way around
 
Latias has 110 SpAttack, worse speed and has boltbeam+stab on Psyshock, and she seems to be fine in UU. Starmie's gonna be nice, but not broken.

I highly doubt Donphan would affect Roserade/Chesnaught usage. People run spinners in response to spikers, not the other way around
But, they can take donphan on 1 vs 1 using their STABs and not to mention roserade can now as of gen 6, use sleep powder and chesnaught can use spikey shielto break sturdy and KO with wood hammer or taunt it from using SR. I think they will rise instead of the other way around. As they are the hazard setter that can reliably set up hazardd WHILE destroying the opposing spinner IF as kingpoleon said blastoise goes to OU
 
But, they can take donphan on 1 vs 1 using their STABs and not to mention roserade can now as of gen 6, use sleep powder and chesnaught can use spikey shielto break sturdy and KO with wood hammer or taunt it from using SR. I think they will rise instead of the other way around. As they are the hazard setter that can reliably set up hazardd WHILE destroying the opposing spinner IF as kingpoleon said blastoise goes to OU
This. There was a damn good reason Roserade was so strong in 5th Gen UU, and one significant reason of many was because it couldn't give less of a shit about any viable UU spinner unless one ran cryogonal (who was okay for roserade, but garbage defense when pursuit trapper snorlax was running around wasn't a good idea). Donphan has got nothing going for it in UU, only hitting chandelure on a predicted switch in (and chandelure really shouldn't be trying to switch in anyway). Megastoise only came close if it could predict OFFENSIVE roserade switching in, use ice beam, and would still need SR up for the OHKO.

That being said though, the defog buff hurts both chesnaught and roserade, as neither can deal with crobat or latias effectively, unless roserade hits them with sleep powder on a switch.

Basically, if you're desperate to remove spikes, you're better off with defog this gen, at least until something like tentacruel drops, who forces somewhat of a stalemate with defensive roserade (not sure about offensive variants).

Oh and not to overlook chesnaught, but just because of an annoying tendancy of rapid spinners like shitmontop running toxic make it slightly less effective. its still good for spiking otherwise. Then again, no-one should be running shitmontop anymore anyways.
 
I actually find Salamence less threatening as a DDer than Haxorus. The speed difference only matters against scarf Hydreigon since other base 100s doesn't commonly run max speed or can't hurt the dragons. Haxorus's higher attack and better coverage matters much more in this metagame. +1 LO Poison Jab from Jolly Haxorus guarantees OHKO on Florges after rocks while +1 LO Earthquake from Naive Salamence maxes out at 65%. Mold Breaker is an awesome ability for Haxorus, allowing it to get pass Mega Aggron and somewhat Bronzong easier. Salamence's access to Fire Blast doesn't even come near to compensate that thanks to SpDef Aggron being a more effective spread while Bronzong just doesn't give a shit. Salamence's better bulk mean little when it has an arguably worse typing. It is easily KOed by random ice moves from Slowbro, Mega Aggron, Porygon2 etc while Haxorus can easily take one. SR weakness is also an issue. While its flying type gives it resistance to fighting, bug and immunity to ground, most of them can hit it hard with coverage (SE fighting, Return Diggy and... what are the bug and ground types besides Cross and Diggy lol). Basically, its only niche as a DDer is its great abilities. Intimidate gives it more opportunity to set up while Moxie steamrolls over teams provided it can get a kill and the opposite team has nothing faster (every faster scarfer can one-shot it after rocks). I can't see how it can perform as a Dragon Dancer well in UU.

As for Mixmence, while nothing in the tier can perform the same role, it doesn't help to get past its biggest counter, fairies. In addition, mixed walls like Hippowdon, Chansey, AV Slowbro gives it muc more trouble. It doesn't sound like a good wallbreaker to me.

Other viable sets like Scarfmence and Wishmence while being (possibly) great, obviously aren't broken at all. People are overestimating Salamence and it isn't even close to broken. Tbh, I woupd rather Haxorus to be BL since virtually nothing in stall teams can stop it. Salamence may be good but I just can't see the appeal for it being BL.
 
Knock Off still destroys most megas. Also itemless Crobat. That's funny. Seriously though, "Get Real", Knock Off has all the support viability it's always had, but now it can straight out Kill threats. So essentially you get crippled or you lose a pokemon.
sorry but if you are threatened by a 65 BP move than you shouldnt be playing this game competitively
 
There are plenty of relatively good cores in UU. Depends on whether you are going for a Defensive or Offensive core which you want to build around though.

As for me I still love my Hydreigon and Doublade core with Florges on the end rounding it off nicely. Complete type coverage between there weaknesses just between Hydreigon and Doublade for themselves, and these are 3 Pokemon which I have kept from the very beginning of UU.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
ok so here's a couple of things I could see getting banned:

Kyurem: Huge bulk, huge offenses, completely demolishes stall teams thanks to Pressure + SubRoost, the only reason why this thing is still around imo is because it's getting low usage (the noobs strike again). It's honestly not much more manageable than cube and deserves a ban.

Mega Gardevoir: I'll cut to the chase by giving you a list of UU viable mons that aren't 2HKO'd by either Hyper Voice or Psyshock:
- Chansey
- Metagross
- Magnezone
- Porygon2 (non-specially defensive variants are 2HKO'd after any layer of hazards though)
- Victini
- Cresselia
- Bronzong (if that's still a thing in UU, at least)
- Assault Vest users that aren't weak to either move, I suppose

Well, that's not a whole lot. Now consider the fact that of these Pokemon, Chansey, Porygon, Cresselia and most Assault Vest users can't actually KO back, that most of these are screwed over by Shadow Ball and that Mega Gardevoir tends to run Calm Mind to raise her SpA to even more absurd levels and you can see that you simply can't switch into her safely. Meanwhile, a good typing and high SpD means that she does have plenty of switchin opportunity, and her speed isn't too shabby either, making it simply too much of a force.

Mega Medicham: If you don't have Doublade, something dies. End of story.

There's just a couple of mons that I quickly found to be broken or at least worthy of a suspect. Have a nice day.
 
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