XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Limitless]

What set does Toxicroak run that makes it A-? I've not seen any in use yet O.O

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Obviously, it can setup on Keldeo. It does an insane amount of damage to most of the physical walls in the metagame (Chesnaught, Slowbro, etc.) All in all, it's just a great breaker who can setup fairly easily and deal a lot of damage to its "counters."

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Obviously, it can setup on Keldeo. It does an insane amount of damage to most of the physical walls in the metagame (Chesnaught, Slowbro, etc.) All in all, it's just a great breaker who can setup fairly easily and deal a lot of damage to its "counters."

Ohhh, I've not seen it. It's kind of like a Bisharp replacement. I have never seen it being used, but in theory it looks like it could dish out really powerful hits. Is the special set viable at all?

 

[termi]

Ohhh, I've not seen it. It's kind of like a Bisharp replacement. I have never seen it being used, but in theory it looks like it could dish out really powerful hits. Is the special set viable at all?

The special set is usable I suppose, but you're really just better off with the physical set pretty much all the time.

 

[reale]

Serously, Gligar is C-? It takes on nearly any physical attack from any attack in the tier.

It has access to Roost, Stealth Rock, U-Turn, Toxic, and Defog. With titanic physical defense it should never be in C-. Immunity is also a great option to avoid Toxic Stalling. It may not have the best Special typing or Stats, and its not like it should be in A+ rank, but at least make it B+ to B-.

agreed it should be higher, but probably only C/C+ maximum because:
- low attack stat (75 isn't enough, not even ohkoing m.doom)
- no recoveries, forced to run roost
- hawlucha sd on it and basically anything flying say hello to it
- roost cost a momentum, and make it vulnerable to grass attack (mind super drain)
- lose 1-on-1 against most walls (florges, vaporeon, chansey, slowbro, milotic, swampert, amoongus, gastrodon, jellicent, gourgeist, quagsire, slowking, tangrowth)
- afraid of knok off like it's cryptonite

on another note, gligar do learn knock off, taunt, tailwind, power trick, sword dance, rock polish, hone claw, substitute and baton pass. (C'mon, imagine rock polish+power trick)

also no further nomination for snorlax to be higher?
I mean, since everyone has a special tank, that means snorlax is useful against everyone no?
body slam paralysis switch-in is annoying, return+curse is powerful, assault vest is viable and the traditional restalk is not that bad. full ev on def is possible, very powerful coverage moves in crunch/pursuit, eq, brick break/superpower, elemental-up punches, rock slide, gunk shot, heavy slam and outrage(lol).

I know it's gimmicky but anyone tried belly drum/sitrus berry+covet?

 

[elitesalamander]

It's pretty neat that this generation quagsire has risen as the king of water ground Pokemon. It seems to mainly be because quag has a more defined role and also walls all the other water grounds he comes across

 

[Loudo]

What set made Magnezone jump to S rank?

 

[Brammi]

Ohhh, I've not seen it. It's kind of like a Bisharp replacement. I have never seen it being used, but in theory it looks like it could dish out really powerful hits. Is the special set viable at all?

Can also run
Nasty Plot / Vacuum Wave / Sludge Wave / Dark Pusle

 

[Timpsu]

One of the reasons Croak usually goes physical is that more often than not, u are relying on a strong priority, since Toxicroak's Speed isn't all that great. After a boost, Sucker Punch becomes your strongest priority, and goes well with Toxicroak's dual STABs coveragewise. Sucker Punch really gives you the ability to sweep, whereas a special set would most likely concentrate only on wallbreaking.

 

[ninetimesnine]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Obviously, it can setup on Keldeo. It does an insane amount of damage to most of the physical walls in the metagame (Chesnaught, Slowbro, etc.) All in all, it's just a great breaker who can setup fairly easily and deal a lot of damage to its "counters."

Okay. I would just like to point out that Specs Secret Sword from Keldeo 2HKOs that set so be careful.

 

[Porce]

Why is Seismitoad ranked, and in B- at that? Is it his defensive water absorb set, offensive swift swim set, or something else?

I'll probably test out Bouffalant to see if it deserves a ranking. Running his choice banded reckless set through the calc machine he 2HKOs every physically defensive pokemon in A- rank and above except Shuckle and Mega Aggron, OHKOs most specially defensive pokemon, and OHKOs most faster, frailer threats (not all of these are dead certain, many require stealth rocks). He wins 1v1 against even the sturdiest of physical walls like Hippowdon, and in theory looks like a really solid wall breaker.

 

[Taehl]

Why is magnezone s-rank? I tried it, and it really wasn't that good for me. It can't switch into much with all the fighting and fire types running around, and it's just too slow to be really efective this in meta.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Why is Seismitoad ranked, and in B- at that? Is it his defensive water absorb set, offensive swift swim set, or something else?

I'll probably test out Bouffalant to see if it deserves a ranking. Running his choice banded reckless set through the calc machine he 2HKOs every physically defensive pokemon in A- rank and above except Shuckle and Mega Aggron, OHKOs most specially defensive pokemon, and OHKOs most faster, frailer threats (not all of these are dead certain, many require stealth rocks). He wins 1v1 against even the sturdiest of physical walls like Hippowdon, and in theory looks like a really solid wall breaker.

The problem with Bouffalant is its sustain. The recoil damage leaves it more vulnerable to Revenge killing and to counterattack from Pokemon who can survive Head Charge. Doesn't really help that it's pretty slow.

Seismitoad is kind of like a Gastrodon with more versatility and access to Stealth Rocks. He can go down a defensive route and tank a surprising amount of hits (no sustain though) or go with a Rain Dance set and Swift Swim sweep. The problem is that Seismitoad is jack of all trades, master of none. He can do them all sufficiently, but not reliably. This versatility in role packed with a decently high speed for a Defensive Pokemon merits him B-/C+, though personally I think he's more of a C+ simply because his most useful set (Defensive) is mostly outperformed by Tank Swampert.

 

[Garchomp for president]

I didn't even mention anything about Choice Banding it or it revenging...I am saying that it has to revenge to get to +1. So I disagree with you, you're gonna try to mock me?

If you guys feel so strongly about Honk being A ranked, then by all means. I just think it isn't right for A-ranked, but I'm not gonna be a dick about it. Apparently, when people can't argue, they just call people stupid or resort to mockery. Pokemon 2014

Dude I wasn't even Mocking you. I was just saying that Honk is very hard to sweep with. Chill.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Why is magnezone s-rank? I tried it, and it really wasn't that good for me. It also can't switch into much with all the fighting and fire types running around, and it's just too slow to be really efective this meta.

After testing stuff in the Research Week thread, a lot of people found Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone super-strong right now.

 

[EonX]

Why is magnezone s-rank? I tried it, and it really wasn't that good for me. It also can't switch into much with all the fighting and fire types running around, and it's just too slow to be really efective this meta.

As eaglehawk alluded to, I believe that it's Magnezone's Choice Specs Analytic set. It uses Magnezone's respectable bulk and low Speed to its advantage to hit super hard. I could also see an Assault Vest Analytic set being decent due to Magnezone's decent defensive typing, but I haven't tried that set out much, so that's more theory from me than anything else.

 

[Loudo]

Am I reading the same thread as you guys?

These are the last comments from the Research Week thread:

Ok so I did Specs Magnezone, and while being almighty powerful and all, it does have its drawbacks. It not very easy to Sweep with so its more of a Wallbreaker at best. With Analytic as its ability, you get a boost to Moves if you move last or the opponent switches. With that being said, it's going to take some hits if its going to do damage so Max Hp is optimal. You need to support Magnezone as best as you can if you want it to funtion properly.

Magnezone doesn't always do very much in my experience but when he does he is fantastic.

The main difference between S-rank and A-rank is that S-rank are supposed to be reliable in what they do. A Choiced Pokémon who is by design supposed to be outsped by the majority of the meta looks way too inconsistent to be S-rank.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Nominating Lanturn for A-/A rank

As this thing is a fantastic wall and defensive pivot and counters many common volt turn pokemon such as mega manectric rotom-h tornadus-t and many more and has two useful immunities in water absorb and volt absorb. It can also beat crawdaunt 1vs1 if water absorb as it can take a knock off and switch in then get healed by a aqua jet. All this being said it is only A-/A as it has no recovery outside of lefty's and rest talk/abilities.

 

[Taehl]

After testing stuff in the Research Week thread, a lot of people found Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone super-strong right now.

If something something is super-strong, it doesn't mean it's super-good.
Is Slaking strong? Yes.
Is slaking good? No.

 

[EonX]

Um, Specs Analytic Magnezone is not supposed to sweep Loudo . It's supposed to break walls and take some hits. Speed can matter, but it doesn't make or break a Choice user. I speak from experience with that since I played RU in BW and two of the best CB users were/are Druddigon and Escavalier (Druddigon being Top-S and Esca being Low-S in RU Viability Rankings) Anyway, back to Magnezone and the here and now, base 60 Speed isn't sweeping anything. There aren't many Steel-types that it can reliably trap, so why not use the low Speed and respectable bulk to your advantage? Magnezone has more than enough resistances to get in on and start dishing out some serious damage. I don't know if it should be S-rank or not as I haven't used it enough to have a good opinion on it, but I don't think it's fair to just say something along the lines of "It can't outspeed many things as a Specs user, so it can't do well."

 

[Timpsu]

I don't have experience with Magnezone in UU, but I've used it to some extent in OU, and it did work out pretty well there. One thing people haven't brought up that in addition to hitting hard, Magnezone works great as a pivot, given the opponent does not have Ground-types lurking in. It hits incredibly hard, and u get to keep the momentum on your side. Most Ground-types don't like taking a strong Flash Cannon to their face, so that's a plus too. Hidden Power goes to what u need really, but it will hit hard those u wish to hit hard. That said, I'm not sure if Magnezone is straight up S-rank, since it realy does need some prediction to work well. But its rank isn't certainly dropping because it doesn't hit extremely hard.

 

[Taehl]

Um, Specs Analytic Magnezone is not supposed to sweep Loudo . It's supposed to break walls and take some hits. Speed can matter, but it doesn't make or break a Choice user. I speak from experience with that since I played RU in BW and two of the best CB users were/are Druddigon and Escavalier (Druddigon being Top-S and Esca being Low-S in RU Viability Rankings) Anyway, back to Magnezone and the here and now, base 60 Speed isn't sweeping anything. There aren't many Steel-types that it can reliably trap, so why not use the low Speed and respectable bulk to your advantage? Magnezone has more than enough resistances to get in on and start dishing out some serious damage. I don't know if it should be S-rank or not as I haven't used it enough to have a good opinion on it, but I don't think it's fair to just say something along the lines of "It can't outspeed many things as a Specs user, so it can't do well."

It might be really good at that, but look at the S-Rank descrpition:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Like Loudo already quoted:

You need to support Magnezone as best as you can if you want it to funtion properly.

So that alone doesn't fit the description of an S-Rank Pokémon.
He also quoted these:

it does have its drawbacks. It not very easy to Sweep with

Magnezone doesn't always do very much

Like you can see, Magnezone isn't very reliable or consistent. Let's look a the S-Rank description again:

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Magnezone has quite a lot of flaws e.g. Low speed, weak to common types, unreliability. Just a lot of power doesn't make up for all of those flaws.
Now, let's look at the A-Rank description:

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

This description fits Magnezone perfectly.

Magnezone S --> A+

 

[Turtleye]

I think Magnezone is a pretty amazing wallbreaker. Specs Analytic hits hard, turning a downside into an advantage. Because Magnezone is slow, it can get an analytic bost most of the time. Besides that, it has very decent bulk and a very good defensive typing to go along with it. While being 4x weak to ground sucks, as well as having a weakness to Fire and Fighting, Magnezone shouldnt stay in on any of those types of attacks.
Besides being a wallbreaker, Magnezone can also act as a pivot thanks to Volt Switch.

The main difference between S-rank and A-rank is that S-rank are supposed to be reliable in what they do. A Choiced Pokémon who is by design supposed to be outsped by the majority of the meta looks way too inconsistent to be S-rank.

The fact is slower than a majority of the meta doesnt really make 'Zone inconsistent. in fact, it makes it more reliable actually, as you can get the boost often thanks to all the faster 'mons running around (i.e. Latias, Crobat, etc).

 

[C AllStar]

After using Wallbreaker Shaymin for a while, I am incredibly impressed. I think it deserves A+ Rank.

Before actually using it, I have doubt on a wallbreaker having measely base 100 offensive stats and no 170 BP STAB move. However, I was wrong and I found it to be one of the most reliable wallbreakers. STAB Seed Flare is the key of using Shaymin. The high base power of Seed Flare allows it to even have a slight chance to 2HKO standard Florges after rocks. However, the 40% of SpDef fall is what make it incredibly dangerous, allowing it to easily 2HKO anything in the tier apart from Chansey with appropriate coverage. This gives huge pressure to its opponents and is even more fatal with hazards, not to mention Zapdos is the only hazard remover relatively safe from it.

Apart from Seed Flare, Dazzling Gleam and Synthesis are near essential for the set. Dazzling is a godsend for Shaymin, giving it coverage on the omipresent dragons as well as fighting types who mostly resist grass. Synthesis is what sets Shaymin apart from other wallbreakers. Unlike other wallbreakers, Shaymin has great bulk even univested. Even things like Slowbro's Ice Beam deals 45% max to Shaymin. The bulk truely seperates Shaymjn from others as it has much more chances to switch in and wreck havoc. Even mispredictions can be offsetted through Synthesis. It is highly likely that Shaymin can outlass its checks and counters and proceed to clean up late game.

The last moveslot is dependent on the team's need. Earth Power is usually the best option as it beats fire and steel types. Psychic is usable too if Roserade, Crobat and Venomoth is a problem. Alternatively, Air Slash hurts every bug and grass type resisting it STAB. If Escavlier is particularly a problem, hp fire can be used to 2HKO it while maintaining coverage on steel and grass types, but thw lowered speed makes it an less appealing option.

Overall, Shaymin is a powerful wallbreaker capable of switching in through out the match with its incredible bulk and break pass every defensive core in UU lacking Chansey. 4MSS may be a problem sometimes but it doesn't stop it from pressuring the opposing team before all of its moves are revealed. A+ Rank is better for Shaymin.

On the topic of Magnezone, I am not really sure of its placement. On one hand it has handy resistance that allows it to switch into things like Florges and Mew with ease and Specs Analytic hits insanely hard and can OHKO or at least 2HKO the majority of the tier. Volt Switch hits hard while gains momentum. I usually have positive experience when using it.

However, its typing is a double edged sword. In the S/A ranks, the only offensive pokemon failing to OHKO it without a boosting item is Latias (LO Draco still does up to 45%), Zapdos (LO Heat Wave nearly OHKOs, Modest has a 40% chance to OHKO), Jirachi (U-turns out everytime), Roserade (Sleep Powder), Mega Absol (Night Slash+Fire Blast 2HKOs 99% of the time) and Mega Manectric (Manectric wins anyway). Basically it has a hard time switching in and doing work against offensive teams.

Defensive teams usually contains pokenon with only their STAB, giving Magnezone many switch ins. However, Magnezon's biggest nemisis, Chansey exists in every stall team, walling Magnezone to hell and back. Moreover, there are still many threats capable of walling or at least swich in relatively safely against Magnezone. Those include SpDef Celebi, Umbreon, AV Tangrowth, Snorlax, Gastrodon etc. Although in these cases, Magnezone can still get a switch advantage while hitting with Volt Switch. I am not quite sure about Magnezone now.

 

[Kingler]

Saying Chansey exists on every stall team is a wrong statement. However, there are many tanks/walls in stall, including Grass-types such as Celebi and Roserade, Hippowdon, etc that can take Thunderbolts easily. However, if Magnezone uses Flash Cannon, they're screwed. Answer? Simple: switch to a Steel-resistant Pokemon, which there are loads of (Mega Aggron, Slowbro, Zapdos, and so many more). On offense, Latias is a good check to it, albeit not on all teams, and offensive teams struggle to take a hit from it. However, Magnezone's bulk is pretty meh versus offense, leading to few switch-in opportunities. I guess Magnezone can also run a Steel trapper set, which is cool (I was talking about Specs earlier). I think A or A+ Rank suits it fine.
EDIT- Also what the posted below me said.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Saying Chansey exists on every stall team is a wrong statement. However, there are many tanks/walls in stall, including Grass-types such as Celebi and Roserade, Hippowdon, etc that can take Thunderbolts easily. However, if Magnezone uses Flash Cannon, they're screwed. Answer? Simple: switch to a Steel-resistant Pokemon, which there are loads of (Mega Aggron, Slowbro, Zapdos, and so many more). On offense, Latias is a good check to it, albeit not on all teams, and offensive teams struggle to take a hit from it. However, Magnezone's bulk is pretty meh versus offense, leading to few switch-in opportunities. I guess Magnezone can also run a Steel trapper set, which is cool (I was talking about Specs earlier). I think A or A+ Rank suits it fine.

Another great counter to magnezone is lanturn who is immune to one stab and resists the other.