You all need a wake-up call. I'm reiterating the threat of Specs Shaymin NOW.

Jugrenae

Why not choice scarf if it is too slow? Then again, this is a thread of SPECS shaymin..

The seed flare is a killer. We all know that. But lets say... it goes against a zapdos, doens't low sp def, switches to blissey, doesn't lower sp def. Then what? Hit it again- doesn't lower sp def. Softboiled. Now, by this time, it would most likely have had a lowered sp def effect. But just to say, in the uber area, a judgementing Arceus could probably 1-2hko it, while shaymin would probably 2hko it, but since it is slower, Arceus would ko first.
 

Fenikkusu

Jugrenae said:
Why not choice scarf if it is too slow? Then again, this is a thread of SPECS shaymin..

The seed flare is a killer. We all know that. But lets say... it goes against a zapdos, doens't low sp def, switches to blissey, doesn't lower sp def. Then what? Hit it again- doesn't lower sp def. Softboiled. Now, by this time, it would most likely have had a lowered sp def effect. But just to say, in the uber area, a judgementing Arceus could probably 1-2hko it, while shaymin would probably 2hko it, but since it is slower, Arceus would ko first.
Click to expand...
Hopefully you're not randomly leaving Shaymin out on things while your opponent switches back and forth willy-nilly. That's just bad playing.

Why are you bringing arceus up at all? A judgementing arceus is going hurt nigh anything in OU...
 

Jugrenae

They would be. :P Let's move them up! * moves up* I am satisfied. :D

Back on topic. I guess that if yo u put this thing in the OU environment, it would be good. But priority moves fuck it.
 

umbarsc

is a Contributor Alumnus
Er... how so? 100/100 defense is more than sufficient to take random priority moves, possibly barring Mamoswine's Ice Shard.
 

Hazmat

She's strong, but not reliable. This is a wee bit out of context, but everyone acts like garchomps 20-28% (with sandstorm) is off the chart crazy evasion (kills his counters 20-28% of the time) while most people fail to notice her 15% miss rate. It can and will throw games and sweep potential out of the window. if you factor in accuracy her average move power is 180(0.85) or 153 (270 -> 229 w/ specs). Garchomp is such a beast because he has this % working for him, rather than against him.

tl;dr not much, just that accuracy matters
 

travisurfer

Ok, the defense drop from such a strong attack is good but just think about it.
Seed Flare: 180 power after STAB
Accuracy: 85%
% SPDEF Drop: 40%
OK, so lets see how this works out.
Adjusted Power for Seed Flare: 153
% Chance for SPDEF Drop with Each Use: 34%
8 pp Max: Avg. of 6 to 7 Hits per Game

What I'm trying to say is that, while Seed Flare is amazing, it doesn't make automatically make this thing the greatest poke ever. Do you see Specs Starmies using Hydro Pump or Surf? They use Surf because its more reliable. Now, if you were to suggest a slightly bulkier spread like the following, then I'd jump on the bandwagon.

Here you have two major options.

Shaymin@Life Orb
6 HP/252 SPATK/252 SPD
Modest
-Seed Flare
-Psychic/HP Fire
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

You can run a Life Orb set with Psychic/HP Fire, Rest, and Sleep Talk to make up for the HP drop. Timid is an option over Modest but you still don't really outspeed that much more so the extra special attack is a must. The biggest plus here is that you can Sleep Talk Seed Flare so you don't have to worry about Shaymin running out of PP and just fainting because it can't do anything else. If you really want the extra power, you can team this up with a Calm Mind Baton Pass chain to ensure a clear victory.

Shaymin@Leftovers
252 HP/252 SPATK/6 SPD
Modest
-Seed Flare
-Leech Seed/Aromatherapy
-Substitute
-Synthesis

Or, you could take a bulkier route with Seed Flare, Leech Seed, Synthesis, Substitute because Shaymin is capable of 101 subs to take care of Bliss Seismic Tossing. We can't forget about the possibility of Shaymin being an Aromatherapist on the bulkier spread either. This just provides for a more reliable spread to support the team.

Hopefully, this will help you see my point and open up some different uses for the use of Shaymin. It still does have some specific niches that it can fill to great success so I hope that this will help some of you.
 

Semicolon cancer

Shaymin is pretty good, I guess its the fact that seed flare isn't the most reliable attack, and its small movepool that bumps it down to BL. This pokemon really pulls through alot, though its hard for me to use it in DP...
 

Perfection

RaikouLover said:
No, its not. I'll gladly switch Blissey, Zapdos, etc. into it.

Oh wait, seed flare lowered my special defense....
Click to expand...
You could say the same for Psychic's effect on Celebi too, who can by the way take a HP Ice and Recover, then hit you with a STAB Psychic.

Lets take a closer look:

Seed Flare + STAB+ SPECS= 120 x 1.5 = 180 x 1.5 = 270

Vs NVE Zapdos = 270/ 2 = 135


STAB Psychic on Life Orb Celebi:

90 x 1.5= 135 x 1.3 = 175.5


This Makes Psychic almost as Strong as a non-specs Seed Flare, plus it also has a chance to lower Special Defense (Although not as much and not as often, it doesn't need to lower it by 2 stages because it does nuetral damage, and has an overall higher Base Power vs Zapdos).

Due to Accuracy, Seed Flare only has a 34% chance to lower your Special Defense. Celebi has a 10% chance to lower your Special Defense, and has a better base power b/c Zapdos resists Seed Flare.

If you were to calculate the Special Defense drop:

Seed Flare's power would double (Essentially countering Zapdos' resistance) and do 270 damage.

Celebi's Psychic power would increase by x1.5 and deal 263.25 damage; less than 7 points less.

So the only time Seed Flare does more is when it makes Zapdos lose 2 levels of Special Defense, which only occurs 24% more often than Psychic, and who is to say it wont miss Zapdos in the first place (on the switch)?
 
Bologo

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
I think the fact that you just showed that a NVE Seed Flare can do more than a NEUTRAL Psychic proves the power of Seed Flare even more, if anything. That, and Celebi needs a Life Orb to even compare Psychic's power to Seed Flare's, so I'm not sure what you're getting at by comparing the two anyway.

EDIT: travisurfer, I do agree with you the Shaymin can go the bulky route too. There are a lot of sets for something that has a pretty bad movepool like Shaymin, and should say a lot about the little guy.
 

Jugrenae

Then you call em a mofo. :)


On topic: The shaymin is a threat. But lets get it down. If you put an arcinane with Focus sash or something, and made it use fire fang/ whatever with max atk, and then Extremespeed the next turn, there is more than a chance that Shaymin is gone..
 
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