CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 6a - Ability Discussion

[Fuzznip]

Ok, we've hit the ability discussion stage. Discuss possible abilities for CAP 11 here. Please do not go off-topic and suggest random abilities that have no positive effect for this CAP.

Our CAP so far:

Name: Perfect Mate

General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.

Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
• What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
• What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
• Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate

Typing: Fighting/Dark
Stat Spread: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 80 Def / 105 SpA / 80 SpD / 110 Spe

My post regarding custom abilities.

The Rules:

• Do not polljump. Suggesting that there are possibilities that CAP 9 got x move is fine, but suggesting that it should get x move is not.
• Threadhogging -- don't do it. Get your point across, defend it, and move on. I shouldn't see the same people posting the same stuff over and over again.
• Keep the discussion fresh. Don't discuss the same thing over and over again. If you have something new to post, post it. If not, think a little bit harder on your post, and make sure you are not threadhogging. In other words, don't bandwagon.
• If you're going to submit a custom ability, back it up with justification. Don't just suggest one. Explain why we should make a new ability, what it has to offer for the concept/metagame, and why an already existing ability can't perform adequately.

Have at it everyone. This is a very important quality of our CAP, so think hard about the suggestions and decisions you make.

 

[tawp64]

I think natural care because the pokemon will be switching a lot, and can't afford some status affects. If it was poisoned for example, that would be the end of it. Then the combo wouldn't work well at all.

 

[HD]

I think natural care because the pokemon will be switching a lot, and can't afford some status affects. If it was poisoned for example, that would be the end of it. Then the combo wouldn't work well at all.

Togekiss can run Heal Bell btw, and CaP11 frees up a moveslot for Togekiss since it doesn't have to run Aura Sphere, so chances are, it will run Heal Bell.

 

[BetterThanYourGod]

I feel like this may already exist, but I searched and couldn't find it. An ability that has the same effect as the move Heal Block would work very well with a pokemon like this. Togekiss's two biggest counters are Zapdos and Blissy, both of which rely on healing moves for the majority of their movesets (Roost for Zapdos, Softboiled for Blissy).

 

[firecape]

This duo doesn't need Natural Cure, Togekiss has access to Heal Bell. I think a great ability would be Motor Drive. Motor Drive solves this duos problems with Jolteon and friends. It also gives CAP11 a unique niche in Baton Pass teams, being able to use Taunt (Dark Typing) Bulk Up (Fighting Typing) and the ability to pass speed boost with Motor Drive.( I'm hoping it will get Baton Pass because it could be pretty good with Togekiss in Baton pass chains). Motor Drive will also discourage Thunder Wave against Togekiss, for fear of giving CAP11 a Speed Boost. Some may argue it pairs better with Gyarados with this ability, but I don't really think that could be helped at this stage. At this point, we need to address the weaknesses we gave CAP11 at the typing poll: the ability for Jolteon to rip the duo apart.

 

[ssbbm]

I would like to suggest the ability Limber, as it helps prevent the most common method of stopping Togekiss and her partner - paralysis. I feel that this is better than Motor Drive, as I fear this will make it simply a partner to Gyarados, not Togekiss. This partnership can be avoided through a mixture of ability and movepool, but I believe if the ability is Motor Drive, it will become a Gyarados partner no matter what.

 

[tawp64]

Togekiss can run Heal Bell btw, and CaP11 frees up a moveslot for Togekiss since it doesn't have to run Aura Sphere, so chances are, it will run Heal Bell.

Well, togekiss' movepool is so great that it should be able to use something else. Heal bell seems like a waste of a slot when it could use something powerful, or stall worthy like toxic.
But if nobody agrees with me, intimidate could work to sponge physical attacks aimed for kiss. Then when a special sweeper is taken out, you can go to togekiss to absorb it.

 

[Adrialberto]

I'd like to propose Immunity as one of CAP11's abilities. Toxic is always a threat to end Togekiss' life, so this Pokemon could switch or be BPed into the Toxic user and scare it out.
The most common Toxic users would fear CAP11 and switch out immediately, because of STAB CC in the case of Blissey and Umbreon to a lesser extent and the assumed ability of CAP11 to eliminate Zapdos and Rotom-A.

 

[Arcanite]

I think Vital Spirit could be useful as it could absorb sleep moves thrown at Togekiss, which can be a way of stopping Togekiss sucessfully.

I also like the suggestion of Thick Fat.

 

[hyperbeem]

Im going to throw out adaptability. This pokemon has amazing coverage, and a stab boost would totally help take out togekiss counters. It also kind of makes sense with some of the drawings i have seen.

 

[Zyrow]

Well, I have a feeling this cap would be running a close combat set a lot in the metagame. The main problem with this is that it would quickly become frail due to defense and special defense drops. White Smoke would be great because it would prevent it from being finished-off by an otherwise weaker foe.

If anybody feels a bit whimsical and decides they don't want that blissey to switch out, it would be funny to give it Shadow Tag just for laughs.

It could also have Battle Armor in case of blissey's serene grace.

 

[Alexa888]

The obvious ability choice is Volt Absorb. Provides the eletric immunity Togekiss mate desperately needs, and provides some extra healing. The ability isn't too amazing, and reinforces the idea that CAP 11 works best when used with Togekiss.

 

[petrie911]

Motor Drive is very tempting. The electric immunity is great for switching in on Jolteon, Rotom-A, and Zapdos. With high base speed, the +1 isn't quite as helpful as Volt Absorb's excellent 25% heal. It does, however, open up the possibility of Togekiss passing a +2 to it, which would be devastating if the pass came in on an electric move. Perhaps being too good of a partner for Gyarados is concerning, though.

Intimidate helps CaP11 switch in on physical threats to Togekiss like Scizor, Tyranitar, and Scarfed physical attackers. Unfortunately it doesn't really help with Metagross, and to a lesser extent Gliscor.

If CaP11 wants to absorb status, Limber is always a good way to block paralysis. Quick Feet might also be of use here, giving more than just passive protection.

 

[firecape]

Ok most of you I think are missing the point here. We need an ability that helps Togekiss. We don't need random abilities like "Thick Fat" and "Adaptability", that are cool, but don't do anything for the Duo (Togekiss has no problems with the common users of Ice attacks, as we determined a while ago). Please, think "Will this really help Togekiss?" before you post an ability that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Adrialberto]

Well, I have a feeling this cap would be running a close combat set a lot in the metagame. The main problem with this is that it would quickly become frail due to defense and special defense drops. White Smoke would be great because it would prevent it from being finished-off by an otherwise weaker foe.

If anybody feels a bit whimsical and decides they don't want that blissey to switch out, it would be funny to give it Shadow Tag just for laughs.

It could also have Battle Armor in case of blissey's serene grace.

White Smoke doesn't work with your own attacks I think. And Battle Armor prevents CHs, not added effects. Serene Grace, the overshadowed ability in Blissey, boosts the likehood of added effects, but not CHs.
Sorry.

EDIT: OMG, I can't help to love the suggestion of Quick Feet. I just love Ursaring, and Quick Feet would absorb status incredibly well, as well as allow CAP11 to outspeed almost anything. Just don't give it Swords Dance nor Facade, please.

 

[jynx KB]

I propose a custom ability, basically the equivalent of Levitate for Electric Type moves. I say this for a couple of reasons.

Motor Drive and Volt Absorb handle the Electric-type issues that were discussed very heavily at the typing stage. However, gaining a boost of either a stat or recovery may break the CAP in favor of a Gyarados partner over Togekiss.

I also am interested in Motor Drive, as it does have a niche in Baton Pass teams that I think it would be a good experiment to explore, as mentioned earlier with Trap Passing and Bulk Up.

An equivalent of Motor Drive, upping a different stat is also looking into, but the bottom line is that I feel the ability should play a role in combating Electric attacks, as it is a major flaw that has not yet been addressed.

 

[hyperbeem]

My first choice is actually volt absorb, but it really does not make sense with any of the drawings. All volt absorb pokemon are electric, but a dark and fighting, really? Even lightning rod is a stretch. I have a question, does the ability need to be realistic for the pokemon? Adaptability actually does help togekiss, it makes it easier to KO counters of togekiss which dark/fighting beats, but doesn't help against other types.

 

[Snunch]

I reccommend a custom ability, currently untitled, which has the following effect:

When this Pokémon is affected by burn, paralysis, poison, or sleep, its Special Attack is increased by 50%

Status has been correctly identified as a major problem in this thread, but this is the best way to completely shut it down. We're making an offensive core, which won't leave room for heal bell on Togekiss. As a result, pokemon that the core is supposed to beat such as Blissey and Rotom-A can cause major problems, as CAP 11 can't safely switch into either fearing a toxic, thunder wave, or will-o-wisp. Common toxic stallers such as Vaporeon and Zapdos cause even more problems; even if they don't predict the switch, they can still toxic CAP 11 and withstand its STAB attacks. Even more importantly, this protects Togekiss very well. Personally, when I face a flinchax togekiss, my first instinct is to paralyze it, shutting down the possiblity of flinchax. If CAP 11 were to have the custom ability, opponents would be afraid to status togekiss, fearing the CAP 11 switchin, netting it a monster boost.

This ability isn't overpowered, as offensive checks like scarftar and starmie can still outspeed (assuming we go with Rising_Dusk's spread, the clear winner so far in the poll) and check CAP 11, even with the boost. In addition, paralysis still slows CAP 11 down and burn halves its attack, meaning switching into a Rotom-A's WoW when your opponent has a Blissey in the wings (a common scenario) will defeat the duo, and switching into a Blissey's twave will give CAP 11 a lot more power, but make it very prone to being revenge killed. While CAP 11 will have a good special attack, it won't be on par with the attack stats of already existing guts abusers, meaning a statused CAP 11 will be dangerous but still checkable.

An already existing ability cannot fulfill this role. Guts would only be used with an all-physical set, which will fail if CAP 11 does not get statused. Quick Feet is redundant, as CAP 11 is already very fast.

 

[GraffnTrix]

@Adrialberto: Every Pokemon can learn Facade. We can't not give it Facade. (Also, I have my moveset for this Pokemon more or less made, [took me a while], and just to say, mine does include Swords Dance.)

Besides, the Pokemon is more Special Attack oriented.

 

[tawp64]

Okay, so why is everyone posting electric abilities? We dont need that really, we need something to help against fighting moves.
Custom ability which for now will be called "dodgy combat". All fighting moves aimed at the pokemon will be dodged and will be sent back for half damage. For example:
Togekiss switches to CAP11
Hitmonlee uses CloseCombat
CAP11 dodges due to dodgy combat
Hitmonlee takes xxx (half of what it would've done to CAP11)

This ability will make fighters scared to use their STAB attacks around kiss and use other attacks. Prediction will be the whole match.

 

[Class]

Proposing Limber.

We need someone to absorb T-Waves.

Natural Cure would just be too good, in my opinion, I sadly can't give a real reason, but it just doesn't seem like it would fit.

Intimidate would be too powerful on its own.

Thick Fat would also promote usage on its own to sponge any ice or fire attacks. Good Heatran check then. And Abomasnow. Etc.

Motor Drive doesn't work with the typing and it will already most likely be a fast Pokemon. Volt Absorb wouldn't make sense either.

What tawp64 is proposing with "Dodgy Combat"... that is just broken on its own and helps Tyranitar and Blissey way too much.

 

[Hooker Punch]

To the people talking about Volt Absorb/Motor Drive, the core needs a weakness, and electric looks like the best there is. Plus, Rotom and Zapdos both are outsped by this guy IN ADDITION to the fact he's getting good special bulk from looking at the stat spread thread. The other thing I don't like about VA/MD is that they don't really fit a Dark/Fighting type in flavor, since neither of those types has any affinity to electricity.

However, Guts and Quick Feet both look good. Status is a big problem to Togekiss, so a partner who can take a paralyze or Toxic and turn it into a good thing would be incredibly useful. I personally think that Guts would be the better one to put on it, because CAP11 is looking to have really good speed already. With guts, it also opens up the idea to having a very powerful duo. Have Togekiss go in with the Special assault, then switch in on status and get a powerful physical hit in too. Quick Feet however means that he'll outspeed any non-scarfer, though.

 

[Viashino_wizard]

I'm also favoring the status-absorption train. Quick Feet would be a good fit, but since CAP11 is going to have a base speed of at least 105, it feels a little too powerful here. I feel that Guts (or a SpAtk variation thereof), Limber or Immunity would benefit CAPkiss the most.

There are also flavor-oriented abilities that could be put as a secondary ability, but those aren't worth discussing until the design is chosen.

 

[str1fe]

I'd like to second everyone proposing Limber as an ability. It has the perfect balance of being able to dodge T-Wave and not being as overpowered as Natural Cure. It makes competitive sense, and could also make great flavor sense depending on the art chosen.

 

[GMLW]

I really like Snunch's custom ability. Status shuts down all offensive sweepers, but Togekiss especially doesn't like toxic or paralysis, as these mainly shut it down. But this way, CAP 11 can switch in and deal with the status the Togekiss hates oh-so-much. What makes this different from Guts or Quick Feet for better pairing with Togekiss is the Sp. Atk boost. We all know that Blissey is the bane of all special sweeepers, and with a Sp. Atk boost, it should give CAP 11 the power to muscle past Blissey. You might say that Guts users would be better because Blissey folds to physical attacks, but when was the last time you saw Blissey stay in on a powerful Fighting-type physical attacker. Attacking more from the special side should lure in Blissey. This is similar to the double dragon strategy, using two very similar Pokemon while one weakens the counters/checks that will obviously switch in, and the other gets a chance to sweep without its counters being there.