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Chandelure and DW tier
- Thread starter Matthew
- Start date
To further reiterate, this will influence Chandelure's tiering in the DW OU Ladder. I'd like to point out that as the heads of this, we realize the following:
People play DW OU to escape from Wifi OU, and Chand is obviously DW OU only
So please, post your opinions solely on the basis of "is it broken or not" with solid reasoning. Posts of "People play DW OU to use shit like him!" isn't what we are looking for, and if that is true, it will be reflected by the votes anyway.
People play DW OU to escape from Wifi OU, and Chand is obviously DW OU only
So please, post your opinions solely on the basis of "is it broken or not" with solid reasoning. Posts of "People play DW OU to use shit like him!" isn't what we are looking for, and if that is true, it will be reflected by the votes anyway.
I don't have a problem with Chandelure. He's a revenge killer and a great team supporter, can be revenged himself with pursuit-trapping easily, sucks in rain and sand, and is weak to Stealth Rock. Team Preview means you can watch what choiced moves you use before Chandy's out, but hey, everyone runs U-turn anyway! If you predict right, you can deal with Chandelure.
At the same time, I'm not sure if he's healthy for the matagame. Chandy's presence turns everything into a mindgame. Whoever wins it, wins the battle. Plus, in a metagame where Soul Dew Lati@s gives Specially Defensive Steels and Genesect the spotlight, Chandy being able to trap and kill them to allow Lati@s to sweep entire teams just isnt right. My bro Blaziken sympathizes.
I say we should do some focused suspect testing, perhaps with and without the Soul Dew legal, and see what happens. Maybe even test with Excadrill in the tier to see if that helps. Excadrill = more sand = more T-tar = less Chandy. Then again, Excadrill = more fighting moves = more Chandy. Though Iron Fist Conk without a CB can beat both with MachPunch + Payback provided he's healthy enough... ugh. Chandy's complicated.
At the same time, I'm not sure if he's healthy for the matagame. Chandy's presence turns everything into a mindgame. Whoever wins it, wins the battle. Plus, in a metagame where Soul Dew Lati@s gives Specially Defensive Steels and Genesect the spotlight, Chandy being able to trap and kill them to allow Lati@s to sweep entire teams just isnt right. My bro Blaziken sympathizes.
I say we should do some focused suspect testing, perhaps with and without the Soul Dew legal, and see what happens. Maybe even test with Excadrill in the tier to see if that helps. Excadrill = more sand = more T-tar = less Chandy. Then again, Excadrill = more fighting moves = more Chandy. Though Iron Fist Conk without a CB can beat both with MachPunch + Payback provided he's healthy enough... ugh. Chandy's complicated.
IDK who would use that as an argument, but I promise I never will. I take DW OU very seriously.
My argument hasn't changed one bit:
Another pokemon that absolutely needs to GTFO is Chandelure. Yeah, its usage has dropped quite a bit since its inception, but this isn't fooling anybody. Chandelure is most definately the single most broken pokemon in DW OU history. You thought Shaymin-S was uncompetitive? Chandelure makes that thing look like Whimsicott since its often 2 kills on its own. You thought Darkrai was impossible to check? Chandelure makes that look like Swampert. Because you can't even kill stuff without worrying about a Chandelure coming in next turn to pick you off. You thought Drizzle+Swift Swim was overpowered? Chandelure makes that look like Hail Hyper Offense Offense. Because Chandelure can give almost any kind of support you want. You though Deoxys'A was hard to switch into? Chandelure makes that look like Virizion. Because you're not even allowed to switch out unless you carry Shed Shell.
Speaking of Shed Shell, every fucking steel type on Earth carries this now just because of Chandelure. In fact, even a lot of non steel types carry Shed Shell now, because Choice Scarf Chandelure is basically a kill against anyone except a scarfer/ +1 speed poke. Its absolutely retarded how much overcentralization Chandelure causes. Think of it as (Magnezone+Dugtrio+Wobbufett)x12000000. The scarf set can be tailored to remove anything you want. Since its gigantic base 145 Special Attack means it might as well be carrying a Specs. Need to win a weather war? Slap some combination of Energy Ball, Hidden Power Fighting, or Hidden Power Ground or something on, then just sack something useless to the opposing weather inducer. Game, Set, Match. Need to plow a path for your dragons to sweep? Screw 4Drag2Mag. Just slap on a Chandelure and go with 5Drag1Chan. Chandelure does the job of taking out steels better than Magnezone ever could. Ferrothorn can shrug off HP Fires in the rain right? Well Chandelure just says screw that and kills it with a STAB Fire Blast. Chandelure also conveniently picks off troublesome threats such as Slowbro, Hippowdon and Quagsire with Shadow Ball and Energy Ball. It takes no skill whatsoever to use 5Drag1Chan. Just take a Scarf Chandy, slap on 5 random dragons, and spam Outrages/ Draco Meteors, takng out steels and Hippowdon and crew with Chandy whenever necessary.
Then there's Sub CM Chandelure. Or as I like to call it Sub 2 surefire KOs Chandelure. Choice Band Conkeldurr seems like a great way to deal with Excadrill doesn't it? Think again. Just throw in Chandy, SubCM your way to +6 and take Conk down. Your opponent sends in his fire/ghost resist? Well Chandelure says fuck you anyways. 145 base SpA Modest is just going to plow straight through anyways. You thought the Choice Scarf set provided obscene team support right. Well there is actually one other pokemon that can match that. What is it? Its still fucking Chandelure. Need to break stall? Just slap on a SubCM Chandelure and laugh as your opponent flails around uselessly. Have a specially based Hyper Offense team, but don't want to deal with Blissey? Just slap on a Chandy. Come in on Blissey and get your two surefire kills. Have only 5 pokemon and can't think of anything for the last slot? Just slap on an Air Balloon onto Chandy, come in on a Choiced Ground move, and take your two free kills. Now its 5 on 4. Isn't that nice?
Speaking of Shed Shell, every fucking steel type on Earth carries this now just because of Chandelure. In fact, even a lot of non steel types carry Shed Shell now, because Choice Scarf Chandelure is basically a kill against anyone except a scarfer/ +1 speed poke. Its absolutely retarded how much overcentralization Chandelure causes. Think of it as (Magnezone+Dugtrio+Wobbufett)x12000000. The scarf set can be tailored to remove anything you want. Since its gigantic base 145 Special Attack means it might as well be carrying a Specs. Need to win a weather war? Slap some combination of Energy Ball, Hidden Power Fighting, or Hidden Power Ground or something on, then just sack something useless to the opposing weather inducer. Game, Set, Match. Need to plow a path for your dragons to sweep? Screw 4Drag2Mag. Just slap on a Chandelure and go with 5Drag1Chan. Chandelure does the job of taking out steels better than Magnezone ever could. Ferrothorn can shrug off HP Fires in the rain right? Well Chandelure just says screw that and kills it with a STAB Fire Blast. Chandelure also conveniently picks off troublesome threats such as Slowbro, Hippowdon and Quagsire with Shadow Ball and Energy Ball. It takes no skill whatsoever to use 5Drag1Chan. Just take a Scarf Chandy, slap on 5 random dragons, and spam Outrages/ Draco Meteors, takng out steels and Hippowdon and crew with Chandy whenever necessary.
Then there's Sub CM Chandelure. Or as I like to call it Sub 2 surefire KOs Chandelure. Choice Band Conkeldurr seems like a great way to deal with Excadrill doesn't it? Think again. Just throw in Chandy, SubCM your way to +6 and take Conk down. Your opponent sends in his fire/ghost resist? Well Chandelure says fuck you anyways. 145 base SpA Modest is just going to plow straight through anyways. You thought the Choice Scarf set provided obscene team support right. Well there is actually one other pokemon that can match that. What is it? Its still fucking Chandelure. Need to break stall? Just slap on a SubCM Chandelure and laugh as your opponent flails around uselessly. Have a specially based Hyper Offense team, but don't want to deal with Blissey? Just slap on a Chandy. Come in on Blissey and get your two surefire kills. Have only 5 pokemon and can't think of anything for the last slot? Just slap on an Air Balloon onto Chandy, come in on a Choiced Ground move, and take your two free kills. Now its 5 on 4. Isn't that nice?
Note: Much of this will be based off of PO's DW which has Soul Dew, SS+Drizzle (I believe), and (now) Chandy banned. It also contains no team preview
I don't know if it was the no-preview that did it (though most teams could be assumed to have one), but Chandy is not super-powerful, nor is it too difficult to deal with, but it allows for the easy trapping and killing of multiple pokemon on the other team. After it has done this job, one can switch in a resist an gain momentum as Chandy switches out but they still lost a prime member of their team. Team preview may help ease prediction but the fact that you are almost commiting suicide by using a resisted choice move/anything chandy can KO doesn't exactly set you at ease. Chandy is extremely unhealthy for the metagame as it requires multiple checks to it on every team and it has a place on a large majority of teams.
I forgot the exact number but before it was banne on PO, the usage percent was something crazy like 45%.
I didn't mind it on PO, simply because I prepared for it, but when it wa banned, the change in the meta was extremely noticable and positive. Now it is extremely diverse with the top threats (chandy, swift swim, etc.) taken out and many of the top teams, are indeed non-weather.
Therefore, Chandy should be banned... not neccesarily because it is over powered, but because it plays too large of a role in the meta to promote diversity, and the results of a non-chandy meta speak for themselves.
On another note: If Soul Dew was banned (I don't see why it is in OU in the first place), it would provide for an even cleaner, more diverse meta.
I suggest having a suspect test for Soul Dew, Chandy, and Swift Swim... or even testinf out the meta without them for a few weeks an see how it works (on PO, chandy was a temp ban, just to see how it would work and the results were just too good to resist)
I don't know if it was the no-preview that did it (though most teams could be assumed to have one), but Chandy is not super-powerful, nor is it too difficult to deal with, but it allows for the easy trapping and killing of multiple pokemon on the other team. After it has done this job, one can switch in a resist an gain momentum as Chandy switches out but they still lost a prime member of their team. Team preview may help ease prediction but the fact that you are almost commiting suicide by using a resisted choice move/anything chandy can KO doesn't exactly set you at ease. Chandy is extremely unhealthy for the metagame as it requires multiple checks to it on every team and it has a place on a large majority of teams.
I forgot the exact number but before it was banne on PO, the usage percent was something crazy like 45%.
I didn't mind it on PO, simply because I prepared for it, but when it wa banned, the change in the meta was extremely noticable and positive. Now it is extremely diverse with the top threats (chandy, swift swim, etc.) taken out and many of the top teams, are indeed non-weather.
Therefore, Chandy should be banned... not neccesarily because it is over powered, but because it plays too large of a role in the meta to promote diversity, and the results of a non-chandy meta speak for themselves.
On another note: If Soul Dew was banned (I don't see why it is in OU in the first place), it would provide for an even cleaner, more diverse meta.
I suggest having a suspect test for Soul Dew, Chandy, and Swift Swim... or even testinf out the meta without them for a few weeks an see how it works (on PO, chandy was a temp ban, just to see how it would work and the results were just too good to resist)
Stratos
Banned deucer.
I've tried stating this in the other thread and I'll say it again:
The problem with Chandelure isn't Chandelure itself; the problem is the threat of Chandelure. When you see him on Team Preview, suddenly, everything becomes a game of not getting yourself stuck in a situation where Chandelure can come in, because once he does it's Hotel California all over again. Every move you make in the DW tier is governed by the thought, "If I do this, will I lose my Pokemon to a revenge kill?" There is no escaping the Big Brother Chandelure. The only ways to net kills anymore are fast Pokemon with Scarves using Rock, Dark, or Ghost type moves (not at all helped by the [until very recent] presence of Soul Dew), Specially Bulky Pokemon with Dark/Rock/Ghost moves, or U-turn and Volt Switch. Just the act of having Chandelure in your party puts an immense, near-insurmountable pressure on your opponent, because if he lets momentum slip for one second, he's basically fucked. That's why Chandy has to go.
The problem with Chandelure isn't Chandelure itself; the problem is the threat of Chandelure. When you see him on Team Preview, suddenly, everything becomes a game of not getting yourself stuck in a situation where Chandelure can come in, because once he does it's Hotel California all over again. Every move you make in the DW tier is governed by the thought, "If I do this, will I lose my Pokemon to a revenge kill?" There is no escaping the Big Brother Chandelure. The only ways to net kills anymore are fast Pokemon with Scarves using Rock, Dark, or Ghost type moves (not at all helped by the [until very recent] presence of Soul Dew), Specially Bulky Pokemon with Dark/Rock/Ghost moves, or U-turn and Volt Switch. Just the act of having Chandelure in your party puts an immense, near-insurmountable pressure on your opponent, because if he lets momentum slip for one second, he's basically fucked. That's why Chandy has to go.
I just made myself a random DW OU team with a Chandelure on it, and the first thing I noticed is that it just works wonders on any team. It can come right on in on Blissey and set up 6 Calm Minds and a free substitute as Blissey can only sit there and try to break its substitutes, only to fail.
I run a SubCM Chandelure and, by definition, you can't counter it, and checking it is really difficult. It basically says "fuck you" to the face of Blissey.
The team I built doesn't even have much synergy, but Chandelure somehow makes it so effective it isn't funny.
So, yes, Chandelure needs to get out. That thing is broken.
I run a SubCM Chandelure and, by definition, you can't counter it, and checking it is really difficult. It basically says "fuck you" to the face of Blissey.
The team I built doesn't even have much synergy, but Chandelure somehow makes it so effective it isn't funny.
So, yes, Chandelure needs to get out. That thing is broken.
Chandelure has shit bulk with a combo of his naturally low HP and average at best defenses + numerous weaknesses. Essentially, the threat of shadow tag chandelure forces people to think more and make better predictions. If you screw up, you lose, same as any other situation. Sure, now you cant play your precious choiced fighting/normal pokemon, boo hoo. If you play into being trapped by a chandelure like that, you deserve to lose. And then there is the item shed shell, which lets you switch. Slap it on a steel, and now you're safer from chandelure and magnezone. And in a metagame the way weather tier "OU" has turned out, I see absolutely no problem with having chandelure in to fight against what weather brings. It helps against weather teams and makes non weather more viable in fact. I do not believe that Chandelure is broken. He's just a mon that you have to play around in order to beat. Don't be a complete dumbass and use choiced bug/fighting/normal attacks, learn the viability of shed shell as an item on pokemon that could benefit from it (in an environment where it is VERY relevant), and learn to predict, not much to say. Scarf chandy is a revenger sure, but the thing is, it makes it even more predictable when it will switch in on you.
Slap a Shed Shell on something and you lose whatever benefits you could get from having a better item like Life Orb or Leftovers.
That's the thing about Chandelure. There's just so many ways you could go wrong and lose a crucial member of your team.
Also, can you imagine how much Lucario would suck if you had to run a Shed Shell on it just so it wouldn't get killed by Chandelure? It completely loses the benefits of Life Orb!
I remember from PO's old DW, which still had Chandy OU. It dominated the metagame, and checked rain. Everyone ran tyranitars (who would be nailed by the anti-meta specs hp fighting).
If you didn't run ttar, chandelure would just destroy, picking away at your pokemon, one by one with it's choice scarf. Water/grounds (gastrodon problems?), steels (skarmory/bronzong problems?), and other things like breloom, gengar, you name it all got revenge killed by chandelure. It was ridiculous. Things like chansey also got destroyed >_>
If you didn't run ttar, chandelure would just destroy, picking away at your pokemon, one by one with it's choice scarf. Water/grounds (gastrodon problems?), steels (skarmory/bronzong problems?), and other things like breloom, gengar, you name it all got revenge killed by chandelure. It was ridiculous. Things like chansey also got destroyed >_>
This thing is far more threatening than Dugtrio and Magnezone simply because it can trap and kill more things that just ground-weak pokemon and steels.
Dugtrio is pretty much only useful for trapping and KOing ground weak pokemon, and even then those pokemon have to be weakened a little first before it can KO due to Dugtrio's mediocre attack.
Magnezone only traps steel types. Chandelure can trap anything. Including steel types, and easily KO them too, in addition to other pokemon that are weak to Ghost or Fire.
And then there's Wobbuffet, but Wobbuffet can only guarantee one pokemon gets KO'd, then it can't really take many more hits. In order to guarantee Chandelure doesn't KO more than one pokemon, you have to either have a Pursuiter or have all your team not be weak to Chandelure.
When I play on DW I have Tyranitar with Pursuit and only 1 pokemon on my team hates facing it (2 if we're talking about Scarf Chandelure). I never really have much problem with it but I still think it's too far good.
Dugtrio is pretty much only useful for trapping and KOing ground weak pokemon, and even then those pokemon have to be weakened a little first before it can KO due to Dugtrio's mediocre attack.
Magnezone only traps steel types. Chandelure can trap anything. Including steel types, and easily KO them too, in addition to other pokemon that are weak to Ghost or Fire.
And then there's Wobbuffet, but Wobbuffet can only guarantee one pokemon gets KO'd, then it can't really take many more hits. In order to guarantee Chandelure doesn't KO more than one pokemon, you have to either have a Pursuiter or have all your team not be weak to Chandelure.
When I play on DW I have Tyranitar with Pursuit and only 1 pokemon on my team hates facing it (2 if we're talking about Scarf Chandelure). I never really have much problem with it but I still think it's too far good.
My thoughts:
If something has been banned from OU in the past (Skymin, Darkrai, Deo-n, Excadrillm Garchomp, etc), it's been banned from DW OU at the same time. Thus, if we ban Chandy in DW OU, from past experience, we'd also have to ban it from Wifi OU (to keep the banlists the same as in the past). This is banning an UnderUsed Pokemon from OU. I feel that this is unnecessary, and am opposed to banning Chandelure more on principle than in terms of how broken it is. Chandelure is broken, though. Sreiously Broken. With a capital B. Yeah. I went there.
If something has been banned from OU in the past (Skymin, Darkrai, Deo-n, Excadrillm Garchomp, etc), it's been banned from DW OU at the same time. Thus, if we ban Chandy in DW OU, from past experience, we'd also have to ban it from Wifi OU (to keep the banlists the same as in the past). This is banning an UnderUsed Pokemon from OU. I feel that this is unnecessary, and am opposed to banning Chandelure more on principle than in terms of how broken it is. Chandelure is broken, though. Sreiously Broken. With a capital B. Yeah. I went there.
Well, my main thought process when I play DW and see an opposing Chandelure is: can I kill this pokemon, make this move, or switch this pokemon in and not be threatened by Chandelure after I kill it? It's very painful when I have to factor that in every time I make a move; some may say that a good player requires this, but a bit much when killing a pokemon guarantees the death of your own.
It's somewhat analogous to killing something with a pursuit weak pokemon. If you don't think your moves through carefully you'll be pursuit trapped the following turn and there's nothing you can do; except, in this case it applies to a much larger range of pokemon, and that, in my opinion, is reason enough for Chandelure to be removed.
It's somewhat analogous to killing something with a pursuit weak pokemon. If you don't think your moves through carefully you'll be pursuit trapped the following turn and there's nothing you can do; except, in this case it applies to a much larger range of pokemon, and that, in my opinion, is reason enough for Chandelure to be removed.
i don't like this line of reasoning...sure, not running shed shell is better in most situations, but why do most OU skarm run shed shell anyway? because, when they can get trapped and killed for free, shed shell is the better item. If you don't want to get your blissey trapped and killed, you simply have to run shed shell. If you don't want to get set up on and swept, you simply have to run shed shell (or sash alakazam with shadow ball :p)
I'm not the greatest battler ever, but i wonder whether the problem with chandelure is that it really is broken, or that it just changes the status quo. (reminds me of excadrill - did it really break the game, or did it just force us to change the way we play it? Is there even a difference between those two statements?)
(hell, both of these conversations remind me of the mk ban discussion over on swf, but thats a completely different story)
Skarmory runs Shed Shell so it can escape Magnezone's Magnet Pull, and Magnezone isn't really threatening to any non-Steel type. Chandelure can actually threaten Pokemon that aren't Steel-types.
Also, try running a Shed Shell on, let's say, Chansey. How the fuck are you going to take hits now?
I've been playing DW and right now will tell you Chandelure is the BEST poke in the whole meta. No, not soul dew latios or latias. Chandy can revenge those too; from experience unboosted shadow ball can 2HKO both of them. Choiced pokes are basically nonviable, and many slower users weak to Chandy's attacks are essentially screwed. Wobb was Uber last gen just because of Shadow Tag; Chandy has a viable movepool, good stats, and Shadow Tag.
Also, people arguing to put shed shell on walls is kind of dumb; as lucarioarkz said are you really going to put shed shell on chansey and other walls? Especially walls like SpD tran without recovery; they NEED the leftovers bonus every turn. Don't compare this to normal OU, because if Shadow Tag Chandelure was released in Normal OU, I guarantee the very next suspect test would ban him.
Also, people arguing to put shed shell on walls is kind of dumb; as lucarioarkz said are you really going to put shed shell on chansey and other walls? Especially walls like SpD tran without recovery; they NEED the leftovers bonus every turn. Don't compare this to normal OU, because if Shadow Tag Chandelure was released in Normal OU, I guarantee the very next suspect test would ban him.
S-Tag chandy isn't unbeatable and only has 2 viable sets but shadow tag makes sub+CM so dangerous to play support pokemon like Bliss or a spikes layer without precious leftovers with s-tag chandy makes it really not a fun game to play.
it just makes the game boring maneuvering until chandy melts the foes team down or the other team takes it down.
that's not a really fun.
Meta would be much better without S-tag Chandy.
it just makes the game boring maneuvering until chandy melts the foes team down or the other team takes it down.
that's not a really fun.
Meta would be much better without S-tag Chandy.
DW Chandelure is the most broken pokemon in OU ever.
Everything slower than it with a weakness to Fire,Ghost,Grass,Ice and Fighting and evrything with a moderate S.Def that doesn't resist its STABs is a potential target.
That is more of the half meta.
Ah and also Chandelure can even get past its counters.
Even if the opponent is smart to double switch on let's say Ttar when you bring Chandelure in a Modest specs HP Fight is going to murder him.
The so called special wall(aka Bliseey)trembles in fear of the SubMind set.
And the only true counter to Chandy,Snorlax,unfortunately is not any good in the standart tier.
Anyway this thing is so freaking overpowered that i can't even understand why are we even discussing this matter.Every half decent player with DW OU will tell you how influential ST Chandelure is.
Everything slower than it with a weakness to Fire,Ghost,Grass,Ice and Fighting and evrything with a moderate S.Def that doesn't resist its STABs is a potential target.
That is more of the half meta.
Ah and also Chandelure can even get past its counters.
Even if the opponent is smart to double switch on let's say Ttar when you bring Chandelure in a Modest specs HP Fight is going to murder him.
The so called special wall(aka Bliseey)trembles in fear of the SubMind set.
And the only true counter to Chandy,Snorlax,unfortunately is not any good in the standart tier.
Anyway this thing is so freaking overpowered that i can't even understand why are we even discussing this matter.Every half decent player with DW OU will tell you how influential ST Chandelure is.
I am dedicating my first post on Smogon to make the point that ST Chandelure is WAY overpowered in OU and OBVIOUSLY needs to be banned to Ubers.
Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Judging by this characteristic. Chandelure is undoubedly Uber. If your opponent's walls are holding Leftovers, which they normally would had ST Chandy not existed, they would do a much better job taking hits. However, the mere presence of Chandelure forces things like Blissey to run a Shed Shell. These pokemon have much more offensive pressure on them and have a much more difficult time taking hits. Constant switching caused by Chandy ensures your wall will have no time to use their recovery move. Even worse, they don't have Leftovers to passively heal either, meaning sweepers will have little trouble punching through.
The worst part about Chandy is that it that with the right moves, it can be tailored to faciliate just about every pokemon's sweep. You got a Terrakion? Look at its threats: Slowbro, Celebi, Golurk, Scizor. Chandy can beat all of those. You got a Dragonite? Look at its threats: Mamoswine, Scizor, Hippowdon, Gliscor. Chandy can beat all those. You can say slap a shed shell on all you want, but you're sacrificing the ability to come in on the threats over and over again.
Chandy not only ensures sweeps, it ensures playstyles too. Sand teams especially can use it to take down Politoed, Ninetails, and Abomasnow and win the weather war. Baton Pass chains can use Chandy to get to +6 SpA/ +6 SpD/ +6 Def and a Substitute with Substitute, Calm Mind, Acid Armor, and Baton Pass.
Chandy is without a doubt broken under the support characteristic. In fact, if you push the argument, you can even say that Chandy is broken under the offensive characteristic. The SubCM set can very well destroy an entire team if played correctly.
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Judging by this characteristic. Chandelure is undoubedly Uber. If your opponent's walls are holding Leftovers, which they normally would had ST Chandy not existed, they would do a much better job taking hits. However, the mere presence of Chandelure forces things like Blissey to run a Shed Shell. These pokemon have much more offensive pressure on them and have a much more difficult time taking hits. Constant switching caused by Chandy ensures your wall will have no time to use their recovery move. Even worse, they don't have Leftovers to passively heal either, meaning sweepers will have little trouble punching through.
The worst part about Chandy is that it that with the right moves, it can be tailored to faciliate just about every pokemon's sweep. You got a Terrakion? Look at its threats: Slowbro, Celebi, Golurk, Scizor. Chandy can beat all of those. You got a Dragonite? Look at its threats: Mamoswine, Scizor, Hippowdon, Gliscor. Chandy can beat all those. You can say slap a shed shell on all you want, but you're sacrificing the ability to come in on the threats over and over again.
Chandy not only ensures sweeps, it ensures playstyles too. Sand teams especially can use it to take down Politoed, Ninetails, and Abomasnow and win the weather war. Baton Pass chains can use Chandy to get to +6 SpA/ +6 SpD/ +6 Def and a Substitute with Substitute, Calm Mind, Acid Armor, and Baton Pass.
Chandy is without a doubt broken under the support characteristic. In fact, if you push the argument, you can even say that Chandy is broken under the offensive characteristic. The SubCM set can very well destroy an entire team if played correctly.
I don't play much DW OU, but I will take thee time to support the Shed Shell argument. Saying that Shed Shell is bad because you have to lose leftovers is a crap argument. If an item gives you the best chance of winning, then it is the best item, regardless of whether it would be the best with Chandelure banned. You should make strategy for the metagame you are playing, not an idealistic one where a Pokemon your team is weak to is banned. If you are losing because you refuse to run the necessary item, then that does not mean Chandy is broken, it means your team is no good. Making people use different strategies is not broken. If and only if it would be broken even with people using such ways of beating it would I consider something broken. But if you are not trying to counter it because you think the way of doing so is stupid, then you deserve to lose.
The fact that it forces people to run shed shell for a single threat is more the argument rather than the inflexibility of players.
From what I've seen, Chandelure should be removed from DW because it centralizes the tier negatively, breaking defensive cores too easily, hindering the opponents actions way too much (mistakes WILL be punished) and forcing teams to use certain strategies to deal with it, which hinders teambuilding, and may leave you underequipped for other threats.
The Scarf set does not have power issues, as Chandelure cannot be switched into, removing the hit-the-switchin-with-the-right-move prediction. You're only going to trap stuff that can be KOed, making any lack of power neglegible.
Chandelure oppresses the tier similar to how Excadrill did. We can put up with it, but removing it will "free up the metagame," so to speak.
Genny, I like that you've undertaken the managing of DW. It's not the uber tier, moderation/suspect testing was needed.
The Scarf set does not have power issues, as Chandelure cannot be switched into, removing the hit-the-switchin-with-the-right-move prediction. You're only going to trap stuff that can be KOed, making any lack of power neglegible.
Chandelure oppresses the tier similar to how Excadrill did. We can put up with it, but removing it will "free up the metagame," so to speak.
I disagree. Shed Shell is useless against anything else, and without Leftovers, your wall fares worse against the much wider range of Pokemon it's supposed to check. Shed Shell is an inconvenient necessity that is a worse option than Leftovers.
Genny, I like that you've undertaken the managing of DW. It's not the uber tier, moderation/suspect testing was needed.