Scarfed chandelure/lucario ASSEMBLE!!!!
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Ice, Ice, Baby - Hail Discussion
- Thread starter Cshadow
- Start date
Take it from me, running mono-Ice on a Hail Team generally isn't the smartest idea. Your team is not only very Stealth Rock weak, but they also share a lot of weaknesses as well. You generally want 2-3 ice types on a hail team and then have the others cover your weaknesses as a team.
Has anyone used Arcanine on a hail team yet? I'm going to make a hail team soon, and Arcanine seems like a good choice. Good defenses (90 80 80 + Imtimidate) and Great offense (110 100 95). Has Flare Blitz to get rid of opposing ice types and steels, Close combat for tyranitar and steels. Gets Wild Bolt as well for water types, and extreme speed for revenge killing. Also has access to Roar, Will-o-wisp, and toxic for a more support oriented set. Unfortunately, morning sun only heals 25% in hail.
breh
強いだね
I did, but it was really... meh. Neither it nor heatran was much good TBH.
Also no MS hurts, especially with hail and suicidal moves being what nine is made of.
If anything else, Arcanine's Flash Fire could come in handy. I've wondered how Chandelure would work as a Flash Fire user, but Shadow Tag has many merits in itself. Trapping and killing Scizor is something that a hail team loves to have onhand.
Hmm! Just saw this topic (I posted the other hail topic, having not seen this one before. My bad!) I read the first and the last post, and will work my way through the other 6 presently.
Something to note (if it hasn't been before) is that both tyranitar and hippowdon have a lower base speed than Abomasnow, and as such will negate Abomasnow's weather if they both lead.
What's the feeling of, say, using a lagging tail or metal orb to slow Abomasnow down. It'll go second, but resists a fair bit of their moves, and will be able to unleash a blizzard that nothing really wants to take.
Something to note (if it hasn't been before) is that both tyranitar and hippowdon have a lower base speed than Abomasnow, and as such will negate Abomasnow's weather if they both lead.
What's the feeling of, say, using a lagging tail or metal orb to slow Abomasnow down. It'll go second, but resists a fair bit of their moves, and will be able to unleash a blizzard that nothing really wants to take.
breh
強いだね
Then T-tar uses stone edge....
Abomasnow is a horrible lead. Inability to set stealth rock (therefore not being able to do anything useful as a lead) and having bad matchups against every single weather lead means more often than not the hail team loses the lead battle. A dedicated lead such as Froslass would fair much better in general.
Mamoswine in particular seems to be consistently ignored in this hail thread and it seriously needs more love. While it's typing is probably the worst defensive speaking in the entire OU metagame. However, I feel that it's offensive strengths more than make up for this as it can provide major support against any type of weather team. Ice Shard completely wrecks all 3 genies after SR as well as most chlorophyll boosters (but no grasser is OHKOed sadly). Earthquake + Icicle Drop mauls SS teams as even SpDef Ferrothorn can be KOed if it switches in on EQ or sometimes even Icicle Drop. Hippowdon is is 2hit koed by Icicle Drop. Ice Shard also provides great insurance against any dragon.
Mamoswine in particular seems to be consistently ignored in this hail thread and it seriously needs more love. While it's typing is probably the worst defensive speaking in the entire OU metagame. However, I feel that it's offensive strengths more than make up for this as it can provide major support against any type of weather team. Ice Shard completely wrecks all 3 genies after SR as well as most chlorophyll boosters (but no grasser is OHKOed sadly). Earthquake + Icicle Drop mauls SS teams as even SpDef Ferrothorn can be KOed if it switches in on EQ or sometimes even Icicle Drop. Hippowdon is is 2hit koed by Icicle Drop. Ice Shard also provides great insurance against any dragon.
From my experience, Abomasnow can OHKO Hippowdon with his Grass move (I run Giga Drain) or Blizzard, if you get lucky (only 70% accuracy in Sand). I'm not about T-tar though.
So I've been messing around with Pokemon Online, seeing what works on a hail team and whatnot. I've been trying to get a good Beartic set going, and here's what I've come up with:
Beartic @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
Adamant: 252HP/252Atk/4Speed
-Substitute
-Protect
-Focus Punch
-Icicle Crash
This has been a lot more effective than I thought it was, although Beartic certainly isn't perfect. Sub-Punching with Snow Cloak on really goes a long way when setting it up, and having Toxic Spikes on the field allows you to semi-stall on your own. Nothing really likes eating a Focus Punch at all, and in the event you run into someone slower than you (i.e. Reuniclus) Icicle Crash allows you to try to get some flinch hax in. He does take a great deal of prediction to get the most out of (though that goes for all Pokemon, really), but he's quite capable of dishing out damage and generally being annoying with Snow Cloak.
The set mentioned in the first post of this thread is pretty solid; it takes advantage of his STAB options while giving him the means to stall if need be.
Beartic @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
Adamant: 252HP/252Atk/4Speed
-Substitute
-Protect
-Focus Punch
-Icicle Crash
This has been a lot more effective than I thought it was, although Beartic certainly isn't perfect. Sub-Punching with Snow Cloak on really goes a long way when setting it up, and having Toxic Spikes on the field allows you to semi-stall on your own. Nothing really likes eating a Focus Punch at all, and in the event you run into someone slower than you (i.e. Reuniclus) Icicle Crash allows you to try to get some flinch hax in. He does take a great deal of prediction to get the most out of (though that goes for all Pokemon, really), but he's quite capable of dishing out damage and generally being annoying with Snow Cloak.
Abomasnow's a great lead on his own, but I highly recommend you slap a Shed Shell on it. With team preview people are gonna want to send out their Chandelures first so they can easily trap and kill your hail starter from turn one.
The set mentioned in the first post of this thread is pretty solid; it takes advantage of his STAB options while giving him the means to stall if need be.
I've been doing fine with an Abomasnow lead. Giga Drain pretty much OHKOs Hippowdon, and Abomasnow draws out Fire attacks which lets me switch to Heatran and get a Flash Fire boost. When I see Tyranitar in the team preview, I send out Honchkrow to take him down with T-Tar (and I can hit T-Tar pretty hard with Focus Blast on Aboma anyway).
I find that when I lead with Froslass or someone else, I forget that I lack Hail and then I can't Blizzard with 100% accuracy. I like setting up hail and then switching.
I've actually had a fair bit of success using Gastrodon on a hail team. Here's the set I've been running:
@Leftovers
Storm Drain
Calm
212HP/252Def/44Speed
-Surf
-Blizzard
-Toxic
-Recover
Thanks to Storm Drain's improved usefulness, you can switch this thing into water attacks and get a nice boost off of it. People often expect a ground attack and switch Salamence or another flyer into it, only to be greeted by an icy cold Blizzard. He effectively stops all water and electric attacks cold at once, and is fairly bulky as well. Toxic is great as it really helps your other members to stall their way to victory. Recover's great as a way to keep you healthy.
@Leftovers
Storm Drain
Calm
212HP/252Def/44Speed
-Surf
-Blizzard
-Toxic
-Recover
Thanks to Storm Drain's improved usefulness, you can switch this thing into water attacks and get a nice boost off of it. People often expect a ground attack and switch Salamence or another flyer into it, only to be greeted by an icy cold Blizzard. He effectively stops all water and electric attacks cold at once, and is fairly bulky as well. Toxic is great as it really helps your other members to stall their way to victory. Recover's great as a way to keep you healthy.
Great core for any hail team:
Mandibuzz @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
Overcoat
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic/Whirling (if running toxic spikes)
This set takes of Special attacker and opposing walls. Ferrothorn (a huge pain in the ass for hail stall) can be taunted, have its lefties knocked off, and the just roost off its damage as hails kills it for you.
Even special sweepers with super-effective moves can't do much to you. Starmie's thunderbolt and Ice beam due roughly 50% which allows you to life orb, hail stall them with roost.
The EVs allow you to outspeed and taunt all (non-gimmick) versions of Skarmory and the rest offer maximum tanking.
Reuniclus @Leftovers/Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
Magic Guard
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Shadow Ball/Psychic/Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball/Psychic/Focus Blast
Everyone knows the benefits of this guy. But he's great on hail as he takes care of that pesky fighting weakness ice has.
These 2 have great synergy with Mandibuzz covering Reuniclus's Ghost/Dark troubles. Just make sure you have something to deal with rock types somewhere.
Mandibuzz @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
Overcoat
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic/Whirling (if running toxic spikes)
This set takes of Special attacker and opposing walls. Ferrothorn (a huge pain in the ass for hail stall) can be taunted, have its lefties knocked off, and the just roost off its damage as hails kills it for you.
Even special sweepers with super-effective moves can't do much to you. Starmie's thunderbolt and Ice beam due roughly 50% which allows you to life orb, hail stall them with roost.
The EVs allow you to outspeed and taunt all (non-gimmick) versions of Skarmory and the rest offer maximum tanking.
Reuniclus @Leftovers/Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
Magic Guard
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Shadow Ball/Psychic/Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball/Psychic/Focus Blast
Everyone knows the benefits of this guy. But he's great on hail as he takes care of that pesky fighting weakness ice has.
These 2 have great synergy with Mandibuzz covering Reuniclus's Ghost/Dark troubles. Just make sure you have something to deal with rock types somewhere.
breh
強いだね
Er... I don't see why you use Surf over perfect coverage Earth Power...I've actually had a fair bit of success using Gastrodon on a hail team. Here's the set I've been running:
@Leftovers
Storm Drain
Calm
212HP/252Def/44Speed
-Surf
-Blizzard
-Toxic
-Recover
I agree with this. Mamoswine counters the main speed devils of this gen, like the genies and scarf dragons. It also immune to electric moves, takes no damage from hail or sandstorm, and its ability snow cloak makes it function similar to garchomp in the sandstorm.
Cool guide, I've been lurking here for a while.
Anyway, I think Jellicent is a good pokemon to use a Hail team, Immunity to Fire and Fighting, and it can act as a Spin Blocker.
His abilities are 2 useful ones, although Cursed Body get the preference here as Water can be taken by most Ice pokemon as well. Cursed Body allows Jellicent to beat Reuniclus (big threat to both Stall as offensive teams).
Anyway, I think Jellicent is a good pokemon to use a Hail team, Immunity to Fire and Fighting, and it can act as a Spin Blocker.
His abilities are 2 useful ones, although Cursed Body get the preference here as Water can be taken by most Ice pokemon as well. Cursed Body allows Jellicent to beat Reuniclus (big threat to both Stall as offensive teams).
Ugh, you know what I mean, resistance to Fire.
Ice types are mostly Water types (Lapras, Walrein, ...), that's why I say most. And before you post another comment, by that I meant that Water attacks aren't an issue for Hail teams.
You shouldn't ever run 5 ice-types. You should always have a minimum of one though because you're running Abomasnow. A Hail team should not run more Ice-types than needed because the only benefit it gets is the 100% accurate Blizzard and the sparse distribution of Ice Body.
Hail should be used as a way to completely ruin the opponent's of their own weather, it really can't be run as anything more than an anti-meta strategy because Hail doesn't have enough benefits of its own to try and compete with Drizzle, Sand, or Sun in any other way.
Hail should be used as a way to completely ruin the opponent's of their own weather, it really can't be run as anything more than an anti-meta strategy because Hail doesn't have enough benefits of its own to try and compete with Drizzle, Sand, or Sun in any other way.
