Well. I forgot about Gyarados. Facepalm.
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Pokémon Keldeo
- Thread starter garchomp11111
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Specs keldeo hp flying is a guaranteed 2hko on mega venusaur if you hit it on the switch, assuming it's physically defensive. I don't have the calcs, but that's what it says on the analysis for keldeo in OU.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
(assuming level 100). That is all. HP Psychic is a bad idea since you have to sacrifice speed for those who suggest it for whatever reason.
it is guaranteed after stealth rock damage.
I forgot about the rocks. OK then, now I see the merit in HP Flying. But HP Electric helps with Azumarill AND Gyarados while HP Flying is only really helpful for Mega Venusaur.
HP flying hits Breloom and Chestnaught pretty hard too.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 272-320 (103.8 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chesnaught while it isn't OHKO'd by Icy Wind isn't a very common pokemon.
It basically comes down to hitting Azumarill/Gyarados or Venusaur. Electric would be my choice for hidden power especially since you need stealth rocks for HP Flying to guarantee the 2HKO on Venusaur (doesn't really matter much since I am a cartridge player and refuse to Pokegen/Action Replay a pokemon into the game).
Well Keldeo is an offensive mon and should be relying on raw power to OHKO/2HKO threats. It shouldn't really be relying on Scald (albeit it's a nice alternative to surf since it's not that much stronger though). I would run Hydro Pump, Secret Sword, HP Electric, and Icy Wind personally.
Is scarf Keldeo really as useless they say it is? I know birdspam shits over it and the power creep makes specs much more appealing but so does outspeeding other fast pokes.
What does scarf Keldeo beat that specs doesn't? +1 Zard can survive a hydro pump, +1 dragonite can use extreme speed, Thundurus can prankster Twave you, Tornadus-T can survive your attacks, specs icy wind already beats the Lati@s, Gengar can't OHKO you, and other scarfers can be played around. You might net a surprise kill on Greninja that pack extrasensory, and it makes revenge killing mega Zam/Aerodactyl easier, but that's about it.
Late game sweeper? That's when hitting first matters the most and Keldeo's common sets don't even let it hold leftovers so Keldeo wears down very quickly if he's allowed to take hits.
And it might be gimmicky but beating scarfers who except specs is an advantage imo.
And it might be gimmicky but beating scarfers who except specs is an advantage imo.
Keldeo hits first on the majority of the metagame anyway. The things that are faster I listed above, and a scarf doesn't help with any of those. Other scarfers are rare and not worth sacrificing the power of specs/life orb or the utility of leftovers.
Even if you do face a scarf Garchomp or something, you can survive any attack it has and KO back with icy wind.
Even if you do face a scarf Garchomp or something, you can survive any attack it has and KO back with icy wind.
Scarf Keldeo is good but I think Specs Keldeo is much better as it has Good Speed and it almost outspeeds most of the pokemon this Gen and still Scarf Keldeo is Good but Specs keldeo has very good Sweep chance has with Specs Keldeo it can Almost kill any Pokemon with Hydra pump and it may 2hko venasaur on switch with Hidden power flying.
so i suggest Choice Scarf < Choice specs
I've been running this Keldeo set lately
Keldeo @ leftovers
Timid Nature
8 HP 248 SpA 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Icy Wind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
The HP EVs are for the SR / Sub #.
I don't think it's as widely useful as the choice sets, but has a nice niche for sure. Bring in Keldeo on something that it forces out and set up a substitute. A combination of Icy Wind and Subs beats the Lati twins if they run Life Orb.
Against anything else you can fire off a Scald before they break your substitute and hope for a burn. I don't sub up if my opponent has something that completely walls me like Slowbro, because having a sub up in that situation is completely worthless if it starts Calm Minding in my face. Keldeo does force a lot of switches though so it's nice to have the free attack after their switch rather than trying to predict and hit their switchin with the appropriate move
Keldeo @ leftovers
Timid Nature
8 HP 248 SpA 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Icy Wind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
The HP EVs are for the SR / Sub #.
I don't think it's as widely useful as the choice sets, but has a nice niche for sure. Bring in Keldeo on something that it forces out and set up a substitute. A combination of Icy Wind and Subs beats the Lati twins if they run Life Orb.
Against anything else you can fire off a Scald before they break your substitute and hope for a burn. I don't sub up if my opponent has something that completely walls me like Slowbro, because having a sub up in that situation is completely worthless if it starts Calm Minding in my face. Keldeo does force a lot of switches though so it's nice to have the free attack after their switch rather than trying to predict and hit their switchin with the appropriate move
Might as well run CM over Icy Wind on that set and run something to trap Latis.
Keldeo @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Aqua Jet
- Poison Jab
Once again bringing innovation to the table, this time with a physical Keldeo set. Whether you need something to absorb Knock Off or just the most original Azumarill lure in the book, Swords Dance Keldeo is your man/horse. We have SD to boost your attack to semi-high levels, and a +2 Close Combat demolishes anything that doesn't resist it. Another cool move is Aqua Jet as you can do a lot of damage to Sand Rush Excadrill and Scarf Landorus-T before they can hit you. Other options in the last slot are X-Scissor to OHKO Celebi or Hydro Pump for a mixed attacker.
physical keldeo is bad, especially because it lacks serious power.
Hidden power flying is most useful on calm mind sets, specs is probably better off w/ secret sword, scald, hydro pump and icy wind/hp electric, hp electric mainly to avoid being set up bait for sub gyarados. i've never felt particularly good with life orb keldeo as it kind of takes away from keldeos great, and often underestimated bulk. Specs keldeo is kindof slappable on most teams, as it's power, the ability to wear down defensive switch ins and finally the sheer amount of pokeon it checks such as megados, bisharp, scizor, heatran and more, all prevalent metagame threats.
Hidden power flying is most useful on calm mind sets, specs is probably better off w/ secret sword, scald, hydro pump and icy wind/hp electric, hp electric mainly to avoid being set up bait for sub gyarados. i've never felt particularly good with life orb keldeo as it kind of takes away from keldeos great, and often underestimated bulk. Specs keldeo is kindof slappable on most teams, as it's power, the ability to wear down defensive switch ins and finally the sheer amount of pokeon it checks such as megados, bisharp, scizor, heatran and more, all prevalent metagame threats.
That's an option. But the idea was to come up with something new. It's a pretty decent lure that can pair well with something that doesn't enjoy the Latis, but it doesn't have to be for that. Keldeo still has good speed and special attack without choice items or calm mind boosts
for a lure it wouldn't be very effective seeing as it would probably go like this
Keldeo comes out on heatran
Heatran goes to latias
keldeo uses substitute
latias uses psyshock, substitute destroyed
Keldeo uses icy wind, Latias takes
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 96-114 (30 - 35.7%) -- 29.4% chance to 3HKO
Keldeo uses icy wind again
Latias obliterates keldeo w/ psyshock
TL;DR keldeo cannot lure latias with icy wind. you need specs for that. and maybe not even then.
use something like knock off landorus-I if you want to lure latias.
U-Turn Lando-I is probably better since it guarantees a ScarfTar kill with Pursuit.
4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 177-208 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 150-176 (47 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
It also prevents coverage redundancy and does way more to Celebi and Cresselia (Cress being one of Lando's hardest counters).
It works on Latios. Icy wind, he breaks sub, you sub again to force LO recoil and then another Icy wind is a KO if you had SR up. If SR wasn't up you just sub up an extra time for more LO recoil
Latias beats it (particularly roost variants) but you can weaken it and lower its speed then switch out while losing very little HP in the process because of leftovers recovery behind the sub. It was just an experiment after all and also like I said it wasn't designed simply to beat Latias 1v1. Sub + 3 attacks is a fairly decent moveset on offensive pokemon anyway, especially considering Keldeo's final coverage slot would be Hidden Power which is fairly weak
EDIT: Ultimately I'm not going to argue this is as viable as Specs or Scarf. No way, but I've seen nothing to convince me that it's a bad set completely outclassed by another mon
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I think Keldeo got even better in the Greninja-Less Meta turning him into an even bigger threat. Some may claim that it lost a niche in being one of the best Greninja checks, but now that it has other viable sets instead of just Scarf, it can more freely run Sub CM and Specs or any other set so really Greninja's banning made it better IMO. It's very similar in terms of versatility and ability to be slapped onto teams to Landorus-T. He is also similar in the sense that although he is stopped by a good number of Pokemon(although less than Lando) the combined offensive and defensive utility it provides is amazing. Another of Keldeo's strengths is the ability to wear down or lure and weaken/kill his checks/counters because of the pressure he puts onto them. Also a lot of his checks and counters are able to be pursuit trapped, think the Lati twins, Slowbro and Celebi, meaning that running a pursuit trapper alongside Keldeo can enable him to run amok without putting in much effort to removing his check/counter. Not only that but Keldeo is quite often the only thing stopping teams offensive teams from being 6-0'd by Bisharp, Mega Dos and certain other threats, saving them from having to run a momentum killing defensive mon such as Chesnaught or a slow mon like Conkeldurr. In addition Keldeo is able to put in work against multiple playstyles (unless it's Scarfed in which case it's not doing much of anything vs Stall) while providing most of the advantages of a bulky water but with much more offensive presence and power.
Another thing that makes Keldeo so good is the incredibly synergy it has with a lot of top tier Pokemon. Mega Metagross is one of the big ones, we all know how good Mega Meta + Keldeo cores are atm. But also Heatran, Lati twins, Celebi, Talonflame, Bisharp, Megs Diancie, Ferrothorn, anything that hates Bisharp (and that is a lot of things), I could go in forever. So many common Pokemon pair up really well with it so you can pretty much put it on a team and almost guarantee it will fit there. In conclusion Keldeo is extremely easy to use, extremely easy to fit/slap on teams, comes with a good risk/reward ratio, benefitting most teams and almost always puts in work even if the opponent has multiple checks.
Another thing that makes Keldeo so good is the incredibly synergy it has with a lot of top tier Pokemon. Mega Metagross is one of the big ones, we all know how good Mega Meta + Keldeo cores are atm. But also Heatran, Lati twins, Celebi, Talonflame, Bisharp, Megs Diancie, Ferrothorn, anything that hates Bisharp (and that is a lot of things), I could go in forever. So many common Pokemon pair up really well with it so you can pretty much put it on a team and almost guarantee it will fit there. In conclusion Keldeo is extremely easy to use, extremely easy to fit/slap on teams, comes with a good risk/reward ratio, benefitting most teams and almost always puts in work even if the opponent has multiple checks.
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