LC CCAT--I have to Axew a question (FINISHED)

[danilo]

Koffing
Koffing is really underrated for good reason. It's really difficult to use. But, when used properly, Koffing walls all of the things that give this team problems right now, that being Scrafty and Drilburr. For these reasons Koffing is my choice :)

 

[Ray Jay]

Timburr. Koffing's a good secondary check to Drilbur and Scraggy, but it cannot reliably handle the former late game and is rather overrated in its ability to take the latter at all. We need something with priority, something that keeps offensive pressure (read: Koffing and Shelmet don't do this). We need help against Misdreavus, Timburr does that. We need something that prevents Murkrow from getting a free switch-in late game, and Timburr 2hkoes LO variants with the combo of Drain Punch + Mach Punch. What's not to like?

 

[Chieliee]

Timburr because of what I said earlier, and rayjay's point about murkrow is a good one too

 

[prem]

timburr
Timburr is the most offensive mon that isnt bad there, so obviously id pick it! anyway its a great check to most of the things on rayjays list a few pages back, and murkrow is something thats incredibly difficult to switch into anyway. i kinda have an issue with the ev spread, but that can be easily fixed so no issue wiith that. its a great check to scraggy and a lot of defensive mons in the tier, especially with the rise of flame body everything, and best of all ITS NOT MIENFOO

 

[spuds4ever]

Timburr

I was initially considering shelmet, but axew only really needs SR to do his job and offensive pressure is something we want to preserve as much as possible on this team. I would like to suggest a more physically defensive spread, though, or we'll just end up dying to a +1 zen headbutt from scraggy.

 

[Good_Luck!]

I was leaning towards Koffing 'cause I really like him, but my vote goes for Timburr as he has everything to keep offensive momentum and with the rise of burning as the prevalent status in the meta it's really great. Priority is something we lack and the bulk is something I love from it :). Vullaby could be a great choice (luring Chinchou and resisting a lot of physical attacks) but we already have issues with Toxic (Lileep is countered by it and Ponyta won't stand much if SR is up AND is toxic'ed) so~ a status absorber is what we need, we don't want another Toxic-weak pokemon.

 

[Rowan]

Timburr

For the majority of reasons already stated. The other pokemon just don't have enough of an offensive presence. Timburr is bulky enough to deal with threats yet powerful enough not to lose momentum.

 

[LUST]

Timburr

Because of its excellent bulk and access to priority to retain the offensive momentum. Timburr also covers other annoying threats such as Misdreavus and Murkrow to an extent, making it a better teammate for Axew compared to others.

 

[blarajan]

Timburr wins. Ill edit later when I'm home and off my phone.

 

[blarajan]

All right guys, I'm sorry for letting this thread die. But my finals are finished, etc, and I'm ready to go!

As stated previously, the winner of the last nomination was Timburr!

The team currently looks like this:

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Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage

Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day

move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Rock
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe

Timburr (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 Atk / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SpA)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback

Now, the only issues we should have now regarding the current lineup: Do we like Timburr's spread? Do we want to use Rock Slide > Payback to hit Larvesta and Shelmet for more, or are we okay with Payback? I personally think Larvesta is a huge dick, but we do have Ponyta, probably the best Larvesta check in the tier, so that's probably unnecessary. The spread might want to be changed though, but I hear this one is pretty good.

Now the question lies: what next?

Timburr provides a solid Scraggy check along with better outs against Murkrow, Drilbur, Snover, Lileep, etc, along with a solid status absorber. With its addition, our current core of Ponyta / Lileep / Timburr seems incredibly solid. However, I do currently see issues with Mienfoo (particularly, Sir's penis of a LO set), along with opposing Timburr. We should also note that we currently have four grounded Pokemon. Aside from that, though, I like how this team is currently going, as it is honestly quite solid. If opposing Axew or Dratini or something get up to +1 before us, though, against Lileep or Ponyta (primarily Shed Skin Dratini), though, then we are in for a world of hurt. Clamperl is also a huge penis. Omanyte / Tirtouga not as much since we have Lileep / Timburr, but Clamperl is honestly just a huge penis.

(I think the main problems currently are Clamperl, opposing Dragon Dance Pokemon, Mienfoo, and Timburr, along with a growing Spikes / Toxic Spikes weakness)

So let's get on that fifth mon! What do you think can handle that shit, along with maybe current other problems you see and I don't?

We are currently nominating the fifth member of our team

 

[Chieliee]

arrrrr

Croagunk (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SAtk / 116 SDef (i have a tendency to mess up gunk's spreads)
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Fake Out
- Shadow Ball
- Drain Punch
- Vacuum Wave

(is this move combo legal? i'm not sure, lol)

This thing beats Clamperl, shits on Mienfoo and zhbless scraggy, DD dragons are killed, or weakened to the point where Timburr can finish them off. It also removes toxic spikes. Fake out is just a really cool move to have, dark pulse beats missy, drain punch gives you boom full health back, vacuum wave is cool cuz priority.

EDIT: thanks rayjay :>

 

[Ray Jay]

Dark Pulse is indeed illegal with Drain Punch; use Shadow Ball instead.

 

[Trakyan]

Croagunk is really hard to beat for this :/ given that its pretty much a perfect choice.

Well, here it goes

Natu (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 116 HP / 236 Def / 40 SAtk / 80 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Featherdance
- Roost
- Wish
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Well, feather dance helps against DD as it lowers their attack twice as fast as they boost while HP flying is a 2HKO on scraggy, wish can give axew a second wind(or timburr) while roost is instant recover+takes away weaknessses. This thing also loves it when the oponent uses hazards and just bounces them right back. Alternatively max speed could be used to lower scraggys attack before it can DD or lower dwebbles attack before it can rock blast you/mienfoo before it stone edges(well, its a speed tie). The spread is to maximise its ability to sponge hits from mienfoo and timburr. We change the spread to 116 HP / 76 Def / 40 SAtk / 76 SDef / 200 Spe for maximum wish size and speed as well as having decent bulk, the defensive EVs could be dropped for SAtk EVs though gain no KOes i can think off. This cant do a thing to clamperl though :/ but i reckon wish which can really support timburr and especially axew giving it the option of switching out after outrage times out and sweep again later.

 

[Rowan]

Natu is an okay suggestion although I think max speed is pretty much necessary to out-speed Dwebble, so I'd change the spread a bit. I also question whether wish is worth it in LC. And if you are going to run it, you might as well run protect instead of roost. In my opinion I'd change wish to u-turn to gain momentum.
Also, Natu isn't a very good check to LO Mienfoo. Even a -2 Stone Edge 2HKO's. So if Natu doesn't win like 2 speed ties in a row, it's going to lose.

Croagunk is also a good suggestion as it can beat pretty much all the threats that blara mentioned, although it still leaves us pretty hazard weak. Although we still have one more member after this one.

 

[spuds4ever]

Well, croagunk seems like the obvious choice, but there are still viable options in our rather shallow metagame.

Staryu @choice scarf
EVs: 36 HP, 200 SpA, 240 spe
Natural Cure, Timid
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt/psychic
-Rapid spin

Yup, choice scarf staryu is legit, no, this isn't a troll. While it doesn't get the wonderful volt switch of chinchou or the bulk or fighting resistance of croagunk, staryu has a lot of niche things going for it. It can safely revenge kill dragons (and just about everything that is weak to boltbeam and water), which croagunk can't reliably do, spin, absorb status, and late game clean. The latter two are very useful when used alongside axew and the former will be pretty much mandatory on this team if we don't take natu. Psychic is slashed with thunderbolt if we want to nail croagunk, but it won't guarentee a OHKO on clamperl.

 

[danilo]

Uhhh Scarf Staryu is not really great on our team.
1. The fact that Staryu can revenge kill Dragon-types isn't incredibly relevant as they're not very common in Little Cup and they need to be weakened significantly for a weak Ice Beam to take them out before they get up another dance.
2. Running Rapid Spin on a Choice Scarfer is just asking for something to set up on Staryu
3. We don't need another late game cleaner, Axew and Timburr are both great at that.

My submission is Misdreavus

Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Heal Bell / Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Pain Split

Having used this set a ton in the past, I can attest to its strength. This thing laughs at Life Orb Mienfoo, cripples switch-ins like Porygon, blocks Rapid Spin, and is okay against Timburr. Misdreavus also stops Rapid Spin so incase we end up with a Spike-stacking team in the future, a spin blocker is ideal. Being weak to Clamperl really isn't a huge deal as no one really uses Clamperl.

 

[Trakyan]

Natu is an okay suggestion although I think max speed is pretty much necessary to out-speed Dwebble,

Natu still (Only) ties with max speed dweeble.

Edit: LO mienfoo is OHKOed by natu so it can hardly switch in on natu to kill it, that and stone edge isnt known for its wonderous accuracy. Also, jolly max attack LO mienfoo cant OHKO mienfoo with stone edge without a crit. The odds of a 2HKO are only 64% without crits and thats asuming natu doesnt win a speed tie and roost. Even if natu doesnt win a speed tie to roost and take less damage from stone edge mienfoo needs a max damage roll or two damage rolls of 17 to KO. The possible damage rolls are 15-18 (68-81%) with a 22 HP natu.

Wish could be removed for u turn but i think giving axew the option of switching out and potentialy sweeping again instead of leaving its fate to a coin toss with confusion from outrage. Feather dance could also be changed to u turn and wish/feather dance could be replace for sucker punch which is handy but it would need a new spread. I still think natu is a solid choice despite beind somewhat weak to clamperl which has among the lowest usage.

 

[Rowan]

@Trakyan
Natu reaches 17 speed, whilst Dwebble can only get up to 16. Featherdance is necessary to stop Dwebble from actually killing Natu and setting up hazards. Also, there is no way Natu can switch into LO Mienfoo. It can't check it at all.

 

[Trakyan]

My mistake, i thought dwebble hit 17.

Well, natu can switch into HJK or drain punch(which are likely to be the attacks it will use) and then take a stone edge before swiftly KOing with HP flying im pretty sure, though its not a perfect counter it can counter mienfoo it does the job.

 

[iss]

Stone Edge against your Natu: 72.72 - 90.9%
Hi Jump Kick against your Natu: 18.18 - 18.18%

With an average damage roll, Natu is going to die.

Hidden Power Flying against Mienfoo: 66.66 - 85.71%

Only has a small chance at an OHKO (15/16 times, it does 66% damage)

 

[Trakyan]

Really? my calcs say a 23-27 HP damage roll on non evio mienfoo which OHKOs the standard LO mienfoo. The nature could be changed to +Def if it needs to more solidly counter jolly LO mienfoo(and maybe ditch special defense invesment completely for HP investment) as max def natu takes 17 HP max and 15 HP min from jolly mienfoos stone edge (I cant factor in LO since my calc sucks, sorry)

 

[iss]

Yes, you are correct that Hidden Power Flying OHKOes Mienfoo. I forgot to remove Eviolite in my calc. However, your current Natu is still KOed 68.75% of the time by Stone Edge + Hi Jump Kick. 236 HP EVs are needed to give Natu a decent chance of surviving, and even then with a high damage roll it will die and any prior damage at all will cause it to lose. U-turn + Stone Edge will also easily kill any form of Natu.

 

[Trakyan]

The general idea is to switch into HJK not stone edge, its sorta on with prediction but you cant win a battle without the stuff. Anyway a spread with max HP/max Def could be used to deal with mienfoo as best as possible.

 

[iss]

If you switch into Hi Jump Kick, you will die the next turn to Stone Edge. Reread the calcs.

 

[Ray Jay]

Currently vouching for Coma6's earlier Misdreavus. I feel it makes the most sense here for a variety of reasons: immune to Spikes and Tspikes, synergizes fantastically with Timburr, beats most Mienfoo sets, and Pain Split varieties act as a nice lure to beat some if its typical defensive answers. Furthermore, it does not place any limitations on our last slot, as Missy basically synergizes with everything.