Another important thing about the edited version of comatt6's set is that we can be very flexible with the moveset once we have our 6th member. We're obviously going to need Shadow Ball and Pain Split but we may find ourselves moving towards a Nasty Plot + Hidden Power Fighting set or a Taunt set as Ray Jay sandstall teams seem like they're annoying thus far. And blara update the OP!
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LC CCAT--I have to Axew a question (FINISHED)
- Thread starter blarajan
- Start date
- Status
All right guys, we have had a bunch of cool ideas here! It's time to get on with the voting! So let's see!! As per usual, post your vote in bold and explain your reasoning!
Here are the nominations!
Croagunk
Natu <==We will definitely be working on the set
Choice Scarf Staryu
Bulky Misdreavus
Here is the team as it is now for your convenience!
Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage
Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Rock
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe
Timburr (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 Atk / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SpA)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
Here are the nominations!
Croagunk
Natu <==We will definitely be working on the set
Choice Scarf Staryu
Bulky Misdreavus
Here is the team as it is now for your convenience!
Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage
Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Rock
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe
Timburr (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 Atk / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SpA)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
Bulky Misdreavus
Croagunk offers very little utility outside of helping us handle Clamperl. Clamperl's a threat, but not big enough to dedicate a redundant team slot to it. Misdreavus helps our team stand as a whole and does not limit our last slot as any of the other nominees do.
Croagunk offers very little utility outside of helping us handle Clamperl. Clamperl's a threat, but not big enough to dedicate a redundant team slot to it. Misdreavus helps our team stand as a whole and does not limit our last slot as any of the other nominees do.
Misdreavus
Misdreavus does a lot of what this core needs it to do. It gives us a Fighting-type switch-in and helps us with our Spikes weakness. We can also be very flexible with its moveset after we've decided our last mon. Being weak to Clamperl doesn't really matter since it's rarely used and we can fit in a better Shell Smash counter as our last mon if need be.
Misdreavus does a lot of what this core needs it to do. It gives us a Fighting-type switch-in and helps us with our Spikes weakness. We can also be very flexible with its moveset after we've decided our last mon. Being weak to Clamperl doesn't really matter since it's rarely used and we can fit in a better Shell Smash counter as our last mon if need be.
Misdreavoues
Misdreavus because of all the previous reasons given. I hope I don't have to explain myself twice!
Misdreavus
Sorry guys, I wasn't home for a day and thus I neglected the CCAT. Well, right now...we have a winner in Misdreavus. Currently, the team looks like:
Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage
Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Rock
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe
Timburr (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 Atk / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SpA)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Heal Bell / Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Pain Split
Now, there are a lot of things with the last addition we must talk about. First, the lack of speed. This is a minimum speed Misdreavus, so we must use this current spread only with the knowledge that we will always lose the base 19 Speed ties. The bulky Misdreavus spread that I use is: 36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SAtk / 80 SDef / 240 Spd and a Timid nature. It's obviously much less bulky than the current spread, but with it I maintain 19 Speed, which is important enough for me to lose the bulk. Furthermore, we must discuss Misdreavus's moveslot options. A set of Heal Bell / Shadow Ball / Toxic / Pain Split is rather unusual, and I am most concerned about the slot hosting Toxic. Would Will-o-Wisp be more prudent? Furthermore, there is a slash of Heal Bell / Thunderbolt...what do we want?
Thus, before we nominate the next Pokemon, I propose we take a look at the team as now. What do we look weak to? What do we have problems with? Is there anything we need further to assist an Axew sweep? We should do this in order to figure out 1) Do we change Misdreavus's spread? and 2) What moves do we keep?
Any customizations would change the number of threats to the team; thus I think we should focus on discussing the current Misdreavus before moving on to the final member.
Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage
Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Sunny Day
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Rock
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 144 Def / 28 SpA / 64 SpD / 16 Spe
Timburr (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 196 Atk / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SpA)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
Misdreavus (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 156 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Heal Bell / Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Pain Split
Now, there are a lot of things with the last addition we must talk about. First, the lack of speed. This is a minimum speed Misdreavus, so we must use this current spread only with the knowledge that we will always lose the base 19 Speed ties. The bulky Misdreavus spread that I use is: 36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SAtk / 80 SDef / 240 Spd and a Timid nature. It's obviously much less bulky than the current spread, but with it I maintain 19 Speed, which is important enough for me to lose the bulk. Furthermore, we must discuss Misdreavus's moveslot options. A set of Heal Bell / Shadow Ball / Toxic / Pain Split is rather unusual, and I am most concerned about the slot hosting Toxic. Would Will-o-Wisp be more prudent? Furthermore, there is a slash of Heal Bell / Thunderbolt...what do we want?
Thus, before we nominate the next Pokemon, I propose we take a look at the team as now. What do we look weak to? What do we have problems with? Is there anything we need further to assist an Axew sweep? We should do this in order to figure out 1) Do we change Misdreavus's spread? and 2) What moves do we keep?
Any customizations would change the number of threats to the team; thus I think we should focus on discussing the current Misdreavus before moving on to the final member.
I think that running max Speed on Misdreavus is very reasonable although I'll look into a different EV spread. Additionally, I think that Toxic is an excellent option mostly because in my experience, no one is keeping their Mienfoo in on Will-O-Wisp and Mienfoo is the prime WOW target. Toxic is cool for crippling Porygon, who can take a hit from Axew and retaliate with a Tri Attack or Ice Beam.
Now, i think that we're really weak to a well played Scraggy. Our only check is Timburr, who has to pray that it switches in on Dragon Dance as HJK does a ton. Thus, I think we need a second Scraggy check or counter.
Now, i think that we're really weak to a well played Scraggy. Our only check is Timburr, who has to pray that it switches in on Dragon Dance as HJK does a ton. Thus, I think we need a second Scraggy check or counter.
Will-O-Wisp seems to be almost a necessity in the slot currently noted as Toxic. I also use a similar set to blarajan, and would highly recommend it (consistently losing to Staryu really is a bummer, especially when you're a spinblocker). I don't see Heal Bell being necessary; sure, Toxic is a bummer on a lot of our team, and Thunderbolt helps little when Lileep does pretty well against Murkrow. For this reason, maybe Taunt would be more prudent. Without a spinner, a fast Taunt user (especially one that beats Bronzor) could be quite useful to our team, especially due to how well it synergizes with our team so far. With Timburr, HP Fighting isn't really necessary, and with WoW / Shadow Ball / Pain Split we have the extra slot, so let's go for Taunt!
Who's with me?!
*awaits cricket chirps*
Who's with me?!
*awaits cricket chirps*
Rayjay, you bring up some very solid points. Thunderbolt really is not necessary on Misdreavus because I like Lileep's switch in on Staryu better, but I still think Heal Bell should be the move in the first slot. If Lileep gets hit by Toxic and Pontya by paralysis, it would be hard for them to function properly, so they would much rather be able to have utility if Misdreavus can remove their statuses. Only Timburr enjoys getting statused on this team, but even if it takes a Toxic, it still only has a limited amount of turns to act, especially so against other Misdreavus and faster threats such as Larvesta (assuming Stealth Rock is not up). With Heal Bell, these problems would be gone.
Now, I do agree with you that Will-O-Wisp should be in the third slot. Because this team plays pretty defensively, it might be prudent to slow down the opponent's attacking power down to a halt to let Lileep soften up the opposing team before Axew comes in for its sweep.
EDIT: I am content with either EV spread.
Now, I do agree with you that Will-O-Wisp should be in the third slot. Because this team plays pretty defensively, it might be prudent to slow down the opponent's attacking power down to a halt to let Lileep soften up the opposing team before Axew comes in for its sweep.
EDIT: I am content with either EV spread.
I would suggest max speed, missy hits the 19 speed mark so i think we should use that(at the moment only ponyta on our team does). As far as the set goes im thinking Shadow Ball/Pain Split/Will-O-Wisp/Heal Bell to be honest. This team hates status(axew with a burn, ponyta paralysis, lileep toxic and missy itself also.) aside from timburr. With an extra point into special attack we can also 2HKO standard staryu since t bolt is only a 2HKO anyway from the same SAtk stat so t bolt seems redundant just for checking staryu if we opt for that extra point in special attack(which comes in handy in a few places)(and staryu can only recover stall with repeated minimum damage rolls and no special defense falls). Will-O-Wisp is better than toxic in my opinion, it still does damage but halves the attack of things like croagunk which could otherwise revenge kill axew with ease, its generally a good move, that and burned pokemon tend to be easier for axew to set up on. Maybe substitute over Will-O-Wisp to make a subsplit missdrevous.
With a status absorber such as Timburr on your team, the only excuse for needing Heal Bell is poor switching. Lileep should not be trying to wall something that can Toxic it. I guess there is the danger of Axew getting burned by Larvesta, but I thought we added Ponyta as it is an incredible Larvesta counter. The utility from Taunt (which, keep in mind, could protect Lileep or Misdreavus from Toxic for a few turns) would also keep hazards off the field, which is a bigger threat than status. Why do I say that? When Bronzor comes out, it almost always uses Stealth Rock before Toxic. Dwebble? It doesn't even run a status move, and the same goes for Ferroseed most of the time and opposing Lileep probably about half the time. You can make the argument for Heal Bell, and I get it, but I just think we should be using a combination of Timburr, Taunt, and wise switching to stop status rather than repeatedly making Misdreavus take unnecessary hits while it uses Heal Bell.
While I see the utility of Heal Bell, I think this team is more offensively oriented than defensive, ergo Taunt is a much better option for Misdreavus as it keeps the pressure on the opponent.
I see it like this: if Lileep gets toxic'ed you waste turns trying to get Missy to heal it; if Misdreavus taunts a Bronzor, opposing Lileep, Hippo, Dwebble, it's the opponent who wastes turns to free itself from the taunt. Heal Bell keeps the team healthy, yes, but Taunt keeps status, statboosts, hazards AND recovery on walls at bay, which will greatly help wearing down those walls in order to allow Axew to sweep. Taunt is a much better option IMO, especially if it stops speed boosts like Dragon Dances.
In the same tone WoW is better than Toxic as it wears down the opponent faster than Toxic and pairs well with Taunt.
Also, Trakyan suggestion on Max Speed seems logical as we need speed in order to keep offensive presence and a fast PainSplit is quasi-reliable against many threats.
I see it like this: if Lileep gets toxic'ed you waste turns trying to get Missy to heal it; if Misdreavus taunts a Bronzor, opposing Lileep, Hippo, Dwebble, it's the opponent who wastes turns to free itself from the taunt. Heal Bell keeps the team healthy, yes, but Taunt keeps status, statboosts, hazards AND recovery on walls at bay, which will greatly help wearing down those walls in order to allow Axew to sweep. Taunt is a much better option IMO, especially if it stops speed boosts like Dragon Dances.
In the same tone WoW is better than Toxic as it wears down the opponent faster than Toxic and pairs well with Taunt.
Also, Trakyan suggestion on Max Speed seems logical as we need speed in order to keep offensive presence and a fast PainSplit is quasi-reliable against many threats.
So let's take a vote!
1) 36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 240 Spe | Timid or 196 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD | Calm
2) Will-o-Wisp or Toxic
3) Taunt or Heal Bell?
Let the votes look like this:
36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 240 Spe | Timid
Will-o-Wisp
Taunt
For the record, that is my vote.
1) 36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 240 Spe | Timid or 196 HP / 116 Def / 156 SpD | Calm
2) Will-o-Wisp or Toxic
3) Taunt or Heal Bell?
Let the votes look like this:
36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 240 Spe | Timid
Will-o-Wisp
Taunt
For the record, that is my vote.
36 HP / 40 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 240 Spe | Timid
Will-O-Wisp
Taunt
Will-O-Wisp
Taunt
- Status