He got the Sap sipper boost, and yes he was Scarfed lol .How can Jumpluff lose to Sawsbuck unless you got caught off guard by Scarf Double-Edge??
Then again, there are numerous grass-type counters. That list is growing long quick.
He got the Sap sipper boost, and yes he was Scarfed lol .How can Jumpluff lose to Sawsbuck unless you got caught off guard by Scarf Double-Edge??
Then again, there are numerous grass-type counters. That list is growing long quick.
Why gurdurr the only one there? he is as good as him and he deserbes to be there. Throh should be B-Rank .Throh for B-Rank
I'm not too sure about this. Yes, he's extremely bulky and can be a pain to take down, but when the most commonly used Poke in NU (Golurk) is a Ghost-type, his presence on a team can be a liability more times than not. In addition, I personally don't really like Circle Throw as a phazing move, due to its low BP, imperfect accuracy, and inability to break Substitutes, which can all be game-changing. Yes, RestTalk activates Guts and powers up Circle Throw, but it's an unreliable strategy and we're not exactly talking about the greatest Pokémon ever when it has to rely on RestTalk for recovery (it doesn't even get Drain Punch). Throh has its merits, but overall, I think Gurdurr is a much better bulky booster, and that's already in B-rank. So I don't think it's doing Gurdurr much justice if it shares the same rank as Throh. I think it should stay in C-Rank.
I'm sorry, what? If Throh can claim to deal with Golurk as easily as you so claim, tell me how Gurdurr, who possesses overall greater physical bulk via Eviolite and higher Attack (not taking investment into account!), cannot deal with Golurk in a similiar fashion?+1 0 Atk Guts Throh Payback (100 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 388-458 (107.18 - 126.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Whereas Gurdurr doesn't do shit vs Golurk, which is why Throh deserves at least B-rank.
Right. Gurdurr can tank hits better via Drain Punch.Throh is pretty much limited to the boosting role, whereas Gurdurr can boost, revenge kill and tank hits better than Throh via Drain Punch.
These calcs prove nothing as you have not stated whether it's specially or physically defensive (Charizard has Air Slash which can flinch you???), and if it's SDef I've nothing more to say really. Throh responds mediocrely / poorly against the majority of stronger special attackers combined with their follow-ups (from phazing or a KO), as it has no time to Bulk Up against them and must either phaze or (rarely) KO them since Rest won't save you. Then the physical attacker comes in and KOes you since you had no time to beef yourself enough or Rest before the attack. Gurdurr doesn't take special attacks well, but beats the majority of physical attackers one-on-one with health to spare, and can Mach Punch something as a final act of defiance if need be. Throh must constantly worry about getting critted during boosting to avoid getting bowled over or rendered useless, and thus must Rest more often and limit your freedom in choosing moves, limiting his use even further. Oh, and Throh has 4MSS: No Rest = dead in ~5 turns; No Payback = Ghosts wall you; No Sleep Talk = Sitting duck; No Bulk Up = Why are you even using this then?Right. Gurdurr can tank hits better via Drain Punch.
Pelipper (NU Rain Dance [Life Orb]) Hurricane 129.41 - 152.94%
Throh:
Pelipper (NU Rain Dance [Life Orb]) Hurricane 75.45 - 89.63%
So where does Gurdurr tank a hit better? Gurdurr's AMAZING special defense means it is OHKOed by neutral hits from special attackers in the tier:Charizard (NU Offensive [Life Orb] [Blaze]) Fire Blast 103.47 - 122.45%
Whereas Throh has the bulk to take neutral hits and phaze:
Charizard (NU Offensive [Life Orb]) Fire Blast 40.76 - 48.19%
So in which way exactly is Gurdurr better?
If anything, Gurdurr should go to C-Rank because any special attacker in the tier kills it unlike throh, who saving SE hits from Banded stuff can take pretty much anything neutral in the tier and phaze.
Follow ups meant the pokemon that comes in when you phaze/KO a threat after taking its hit, thus the "follow up" attack.Follow ups? I don't follow. For instance, after SR is set up, all Throh has to do is literally get in ONE Circle Throw and that's pretty much it for Charizard whereas Gurdurr has nothing it can do while Charizard roasts it.
Critical hits? LOL. The chance of a critical hit is SOO low you shouldn't be worrying about it. Ohh, IF it gets a critical hit it's gone. Yes, but why not mention that with uninvested 100 Base Attack, a critical hit off Throh(Misdreavus (NU Calm Mind) So you're saying it can't KO standard physical wall Misdreavus? Payback 45.06 - 53.08% without crit so after SR with crit, OHKO).
It's not fair to mention crits on one side without the other, one can only make a balanced analysis if factors are same for both. The chance of Throh getting a crit is EXACTLY the same as other mons, so mentioning crits is kinda useless.
If we assumed crits for everything Sawk is plain broken because with a crit CB Close Combat, anything NOT a ghost type is goners.
Since when has Base 100 Atk been Low? It's not like I'm comparing Shuckle to Kyurem-B, Gurdurr has only 5 more than Throh lol.Throh's low attacking stats
Crits happen. If Musharna gets hit with a crit, it can usually get back into the swing of things with Recover. If Alomomola gets critted, Wish+Protect can usually save it. If Throh gets hit with a crit, all its boosts are ignored. It can't immediately respond with a Rest. If it's asleep, it can't use it. If it's awake, it'll be finished off before it can Rest. Throh is a great Pokemon in PU and decent in NU, but Gurdurr is better for everything that you would use either for. You're not going to be walling Charizard with either of them. It doesn't matter that Throh can survive a fire blast and Gurdurr can't. A Flying Gem powered Acrobatics or Air Slash will do the trick on either.Critical hits? LOL. The chance of a critical hit is SOO low you shouldn't be worrying about it. Ohh, IF it gets a critical hit it's gone. Yes, but why not mention that with 100 Base Attack, a critical hit off Throh(Misdreavus (NU Calm Mind) Payback 45.06 - 53.08% without crit so after SR with crit, OHKO).
It's not fair to mention crits on one side without the other, one can only make a balanced analysis if factors are same for both. The chance of Throh getting a crit is EXACTLY the same as other mons, so mentioning crits is kinda useless.
If we assumed crits for everything Sawk is plain broken because with a crit CB Close Combat, anything NOT a ghost type is goners.
Honestly though, I'd like to know what this "niche" is: all I see in Throh is a punching bag :cloud: that is somewhat awkward in execution. The stronger metagame does Throh no favors as most threats can 3HKO him, making RestTalk a bad idea to rely on. Throh's moves are all important, but Sleep Talk is much too uncooperative (working for you 1/3 of the time in general) for Throh to be considered reliable. Whenever I use this thing, I don't think I'm an unstoppable bulky shuffler, I just think: "I swear to god if you pick Rest / the wrong move again, you're dead to me, literally!" Throh can work, but 2/3 of the time Throh just doesn't get his shit together and spends the entire match sleeping his ass away, trying in vain to get past +2.Ah, a flying gem might but if Charizard is carrying a Life Orb(more common), at least Throh has a chance?
Throh has it's own niche and simply for that and the fact that unlike most say, it's perfectly viable, makes it B-rank for me.
Well Dinamycpunch confusess.. but relying on confusion is kind of bad.. remember Swagger Liepard... Still what you said is right he has a very small niche, it should be evaluated if he should go higher.Talking about a completely different Fighter, would it be fair to push for Machoke into D or C-rank? STAB No Guard Dynamicpunch is a notable niche in and of itself.