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Prankster
- Thread starter Korski
- Start date
No, nothing does. From what I can tell the Chimchar line are the only Pokemon with Assist and Stealth Rock.
Alright good point. I've updated the OP. The thing with Volbeat, Illumise, etc. is that, since all MH users have terrible defenses, it's hard to switch them in, especially this generation, so I wouldn't get too overexcited about most of these guys. What makes Erufuun so appealing, in my opinion, is its Speed. Erufuun can not only Encore fast set-uppers with priority (like Infernape) on top of set-uppers without priority, but it can also switch in very reliably on other MH users (Volbeat, Illumise, e.g.) and shut them down completely.
Yes the new Dark-type cat gets assist and mischievous heart, but it still misses out on stealth rock. that's still not gonna stop me from running my team of dragon tailers though :D.
Unless you can 2hko volbeat with a priority move (which wouldn't be too hard with volbeats defenses), he can be guaranteed a +3 sp atk baton pass if you give it a focus sash. That's downright awesome.
Reperadusu
Mischievous Heart
- Assist
- Snatch
- Thief/Covet
- Protect
To assist (no pun intended)
Choroneko
Mischievous Heart
- Assist
- Snatch
- Thief/Covet
- Protect
- Same as above, except you can do it twice
Weavile @ Choice Band/Scarf
- Assist
- Thief
- Feint
- Counter/Protect
Doesn't get priority (and is vulnerable to several priority moves), but is so fast it may as well. You could do the same with persian or purugly, but they're slower and vulnerable to mach punch/vacuum wave. Infernape is probably too slow, but isn't vulnerable to common priority moves and has more than enough attack to do the scarf variant.
Ambipom
Technician
- Covet (Now has 60 BP)
- Thief
- Counter
- Protect
Chatot @ Choice Specs
- Chatter
- Sleep Talk
- Mimic/Mirror Move
- Protect
Those two get decently powerful reliable STAB attacks that aren't assistable
Other good attacks to have in the team:
Trick/Switcheroo (AFAIK only mew gets both that and dragon tail)
Destiny Bond (AFAIK only giratina gets dragon tail too)
Focus punch (Though assist can select substitute, so its usefulness is limited)
For the dragon tail user, I'd probably pick tyranitar as it can put up sand to hurt the opponent more. It means giving the leopard leftovers, but if you give it protect it can do 12.5% to a pokemon every time it switches in. However dragon tail has 90% accuracy, and sand-veil users would compound the problem.
If you only give one pokemon assist, the leopard itself could use some decent moves.
Mischievous Heart
- Assist
- Snatch
- Thief/Covet
- Protect
To assist (no pun intended)
Choroneko
Mischievous Heart
- Assist
- Snatch
- Thief/Covet
- Protect
- Same as above, except you can do it twice
Weavile @ Choice Band/Scarf
- Assist
- Thief
- Feint
- Counter/Protect
Doesn't get priority (and is vulnerable to several priority moves), but is so fast it may as well. You could do the same with persian or purugly, but they're slower and vulnerable to mach punch/vacuum wave. Infernape is probably too slow, but isn't vulnerable to common priority moves and has more than enough attack to do the scarf variant.
Ambipom
Technician
- Covet (Now has 60 BP)
- Thief
- Counter
- Protect
Chatot @ Choice Specs
- Chatter
- Sleep Talk
- Mimic/Mirror Move
- Protect
Those two get decently powerful reliable STAB attacks that aren't assistable
Other good attacks to have in the team:
Trick/Switcheroo (AFAIK only mew gets both that and dragon tail)
Destiny Bond (AFAIK only giratina gets dragon tail too)
Focus punch (Though assist can select substitute, so its usefulness is limited)
For the dragon tail user, I'd probably pick tyranitar as it can put up sand to hurt the opponent more. It means giving the leopard leftovers, but if you give it protect it can do 12.5% to a pokemon every time it switches in. However dragon tail has 90% accuracy, and sand-veil users would compound the problem.
If you only give one pokemon assist, the leopard itself could use some decent moves.
exactly, and really, most pokemon who use priority are slow.
the only thing hitting it is pretty much extremespeed users like lucario dragonite and arcanine, weaville with ice shard, and infernape with mach punch, unless your opponent is running something random like Floatzel or Sharpedo with aqua jet or Max speed jolly hitmonlee with mach punch, which is highly unlikely.
So common priority attackers like Scizor, Metagross, and Breloom, along with most every other non-priority user, are easily set up on.
and even on things like lucario and infernape that can try and kill Volbeat with bullet/mach punch, they have to worry about focus sash + thunder wave.
and of course not to mention, if the opponent doesnt have these on the field, its open game. if they do try to swich one of them in, thats a free setup move right there. Volbeat is more versatile than people are giving him credit for. Fireflies are IN this season.
Funny...Im listening to the song firefly 0_o.
Yah and i kind of also want to vouch for this little guy's effectiveness.If you can get it in safely then you'r almost guaranteed a +3 most of the time and even +6 sometimes.The only thing it lacks is probably Taunt which could help a lot but heh...Cant have everything.And ive also tried using it like SDGliscor with screens and the result has been quite impressive.Generally stuff like Lucario/Infernape can be quite annoying in both cases as they can hit hard ans fast killing Volbeat as well as hit the poke to which the boosts are being passed to pretty hard as well so Screens help a lot there.
All i had to say ;o.
Ive even thought of Volbeat possibly being a lead as it would be very effective to start without having to switch in on an attack. if not, i would suggest saving him for after one of your pokemon go down, so you can also get in without worrying about damage. he works well on a clean slate.
For Assist Teams:
Infernape: @ Choice Scarf
Stealth Rock
Assist
Focus Punch
Roar
Reparudasu: @ Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Choroneko: @Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Persian: @ Leftovers
Technician
252 Hp / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Roar
Thief
Switcharoo
Purugly:
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Roar
Skarmary:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roar
Counter
This way, you always Roar first... Skarmary is so you can set up Spikes against a foe, and let it die, Whirlwind and Roar will lessen the chance you will use Spikes/Stealth Rock.
Infernape: @ Choice Scarf
Stealth Rock
Assist
Focus Punch
Roar
Reparudasu: @ Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Choroneko: @Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Persian: @ Leftovers
Technician
252 Hp / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Roar
Thief
Switcharoo
Purugly:
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Roar
Skarmary:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roar
Counter
This way, you always Roar first... Skarmary is so you can set up Spikes against a foe, and let it die, Whirlwind and Roar will lessen the chance you will use Spikes/Stealth Rock.
Does anyone know if Mischievous Heart gives Night Shade/Seismic Toss priority? Because if it does, Sableye might be my new favorite Pokémon.
Im pretty sure that it didn't because Seismic Toss/Night Shade are considerred to be Dammaging moves and they do not get blocked by taunt.
The problem there is it that assist has a 50% chance of using spikes or stealth rock, and during that time you're vulnerable (or they could put a sub up and ruin you). Dragon tail and dragon tail alone is probably the best option on such a team. Also Weavile is the fastest user of assist, and it has very high attack and gets a strong STAB thief if necessary.
I'd use:
Leperadusu
Infernape
Persian (with switcheroo and choice band/scarf)
Weavile
A ghost (for absorbing mach punches and using destiny bond)
A dragon tail user (if using set in ubers I can use giratina for both of the above and add in purugly for a 5th dragon tail abuser)
They'd need some way of dealing with extremespeed users. Counter would probably work fine. Also, the 90% accuracy is quite a problem, though wide lens would work a treat. The team could get hit 128-160 times before it even gets to use an attack if done right. I can see this working especially well in the likely dragon heavy uber tier.
I could seriously imagine this set being so good that they pass a vote to have assist be unable to select dragon tail.
We can also try something unexpected like:
Riolu - Mischievous Heart - Leftovers
Substitute
Overhead Throw
Screech / Toxic
Swagger
use this to try an force switches and abuse entry hazards (especially stealth rocks). you can use Swagger (which would work better on special threat like jolteon or azelf) to try an annoy the opponent into switching, hopefully causing damage the turn it is used do to confusion. after that initial turn you can either put up a substitute while they try to attack you or switch out, or you can use overhead throw immediately. If they did happen to switch out, not only does their counter receive entry hazard damage, but they get a 60BP+STAB fighting attack and are forced out again, causing their next pokemon after that more entry hazard damage.
Screech and toxic are to annoy the opponent into switching as well. Screech to threaten to hit them harder with overhead throw and overall weaken their defenses, or Toxic to spread a status and start crippling tanks and such, causing switches as well. if not, toxic+swagger can also be used to cause residual damage that will also infuriate the foe, which would then put him in the position again of having to switch by choice or by force. (the point is to make them want to switch, predicting that and using overhead throw at the same time)
ghosts wall this so its best to get rid of their token ghost pokemon early on. thoughts on the set? it also has access to foresight but i think getting rid of the ghost with other pokemon is more useful
Riolu - Mischievous Heart - Leftovers
Substitute
Overhead Throw
Screech / Toxic
Swagger
use this to try an force switches and abuse entry hazards (especially stealth rocks). you can use Swagger (which would work better on special threat like jolteon or azelf) to try an annoy the opponent into switching, hopefully causing damage the turn it is used do to confusion. after that initial turn you can either put up a substitute while they try to attack you or switch out, or you can use overhead throw immediately. If they did happen to switch out, not only does their counter receive entry hazard damage, but they get a 60BP+STAB fighting attack and are forced out again, causing their next pokemon after that more entry hazard damage.
Screech and toxic are to annoy the opponent into switching as well. Screech to threaten to hit them harder with overhead throw and overall weaken their defenses, or Toxic to spread a status and start crippling tanks and such, causing switches as well. if not, toxic+swagger can also be used to cause residual damage that will also infuriate the foe, which would then put him in the position again of having to switch by choice or by force. (the point is to make them want to switch, predicting that and using overhead throw at the same time)
ghosts wall this so its best to get rid of their token ghost pokemon early on. thoughts on the set? it also has access to foresight but i think getting rid of the ghost with other pokemon is more useful
U guys r wrong... Mischievous Heart's going to make Assist have priority, therefore, Assist (since it makes all moves regardless of their usual priority go with 0 priority) will make Roar have Priority since it only activates through Assist, which activates through Mischievous Heart at +1 Priority.
Additionally, Spikes and Stealth Rocks do not have a 50% chance of activating... The reason Whirlwind and Roar are on so many Pokemon is because Assist has an equal shot at 1st- Ignoring moves that are unusable on a teammate, 2nd- randomly selecting a teammate with at least 1 usable move, 3rd- selecting a move on that teammate that is usable.
Since Assist works like this, multiple teammates having Roar or Whirlwind increases the chance of using them, and since only 1 teammate has Spikes or Stealth Rock, then the chance of Selecting those diminishes, since Roar/Whirlwind being spread out diminishes those chances.
*If Assist picks Skarmary, then Spikes can only be selected a 33% of the time (since Roar and Whirlwind are also selectable).Since there are 5 teammates (Assist even picks fainted ones), Skarmary has a 1/5 or 20% chance of being picked, then from that 20% you divide it by 1/3 since Spikes, Roar, and the third move Whirlwind all are selectable. This makes that 20% turn into 6.67%.
Infernape's Stealth Rock does have a 50% of being Selected since it is either than or Roar, but then again... there is only a 20% of Infernape being selected in the first place, then cut that by 50%, and you end up with 10%. So you have a 10% chance of Selecting Stealth Rocks.
So u have a 84.33% chance of Selecting Roar, or Whirlwind.
Additionally, Spikes and Stealth Rocks do not have a 50% chance of activating... The reason Whirlwind and Roar are on so many Pokemon is because Assist has an equal shot at 1st- Ignoring moves that are unusable on a teammate, 2nd- randomly selecting a teammate with at least 1 usable move, 3rd- selecting a move on that teammate that is usable.
Since Assist works like this, multiple teammates having Roar or Whirlwind increases the chance of using them, and since only 1 teammate has Spikes or Stealth Rock, then the chance of Selecting those diminishes, since Roar/Whirlwind being spread out diminishes those chances.
*If Assist picks Skarmary, then Spikes can only be selected a 33% of the time (since Roar and Whirlwind are also selectable).Since there are 5 teammates (Assist even picks fainted ones), Skarmary has a 1/5 or 20% chance of being picked, then from that 20% you divide it by 1/3 since Spikes, Roar, and the third move Whirlwind all are selectable. This makes that 20% turn into 6.67%.
Infernape's Stealth Rock does have a 50% of being Selected since it is either than or Roar, but then again... there is only a 20% of Infernape being selected in the first place, then cut that by 50%, and you end up with 10%. So you have a 10% chance of Selecting Stealth Rocks.
So u have a 84.33% chance of Selecting Roar, or Whirlwind.
Yes as Aerodactyl with - Roar, Whirlwind
Or Drapion with Roar, Whirlwind will work. Additionally, Drapion can also use Toxic Spikes.
The advantage of Infernape is that if all your other Assist Pokemon faint, Infernape also knows Assist, (meaning it can Whirlwind and Roar first, especially with Choice Scarf). Also, since Infernape has Assist, and Stealth Rock, it will be more likely to get Assist Whirlwind, or Assist Roar, since now there is only 1 move that can be chosen besides those 2: Spikes.
Infernape can also use Roar on turns that it doesn't want to risk using Assist.
Having a Pokemon like Aerodactyl, means that if Aerodactyl wants to use Whirlwind or Roar is has to use it always going 2nd due to the reduced priority of the moves.
In the long run, Aerodactyl, Drapion reduce the teammates with Assist chance of using Spikes and Stealth Rock, but if those Pokemon faint (and they can with Priority moves like Extreme Speed, Magic Coat, etc.), then you are left with a an Aerodactyl that must survive a hit to force a switch since Whirlwind and Roar go 2nd...
TO NEGATE THIS: You can have a teammate that is Scarfed with Dragon Tail, but again, the accuracy is 90%, and it doesn't force a switch if the foe has Substitute.
THE ADVANTAGE, however, IS AVOIDING MAGIC COAT/TAUNT.
THE NEGATIVE is if you put Stealth Rock and Spikes on Skarmary, you rely on 1 Pokemon to set all entry hazards... and the first thing you want set is Stealth Rock...
So perhaps: For Assist Teams:
Onyx @ Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
[Onyx over Steelix for its 70 Base Speed; it is the fastest user of both Dragon Tail, and Stealth Rocks, plus Sturdy means it will always survive the first it. Additionally, with Choice Scarf and 70 Base Speed, it can avoid Taunt, and can Dragon Tail against counters before it is hit.]
Stealth Rocks
Dragon Tail
Roar
Reparudasu: @ Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Choroneko: @Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Persian: @ Leftovers
Technician
252 Hp / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Roar
Thief
Switcharoo
Purugly:
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Roar
Skarmary:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roar
Counter
This way, you always Roar first... Skarmary is so you can set up Spikes against a foe, and let it die, Whirlwind and Roar will lessen the chance you will use Spikes/Stealth Rock.
Or Drapion with Roar, Whirlwind will work. Additionally, Drapion can also use Toxic Spikes.
The advantage of Infernape is that if all your other Assist Pokemon faint, Infernape also knows Assist, (meaning it can Whirlwind and Roar first, especially with Choice Scarf). Also, since Infernape has Assist, and Stealth Rock, it will be more likely to get Assist Whirlwind, or Assist Roar, since now there is only 1 move that can be chosen besides those 2: Spikes.
Infernape can also use Roar on turns that it doesn't want to risk using Assist.
Having a Pokemon like Aerodactyl, means that if Aerodactyl wants to use Whirlwind or Roar is has to use it always going 2nd due to the reduced priority of the moves.
In the long run, Aerodactyl, Drapion reduce the teammates with Assist chance of using Spikes and Stealth Rock, but if those Pokemon faint (and they can with Priority moves like Extreme Speed, Magic Coat, etc.), then you are left with a an Aerodactyl that must survive a hit to force a switch since Whirlwind and Roar go 2nd...
TO NEGATE THIS: You can have a teammate that is Scarfed with Dragon Tail, but again, the accuracy is 90%, and it doesn't force a switch if the foe has Substitute.
THE ADVANTAGE, however, IS AVOIDING MAGIC COAT/TAUNT.
THE NEGATIVE is if you put Stealth Rock and Spikes on Skarmary, you rely on 1 Pokemon to set all entry hazards... and the first thing you want set is Stealth Rock...
So perhaps: For Assist Teams:
Onyx @ Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
[Onyx over Steelix for its 70 Base Speed; it is the fastest user of both Dragon Tail, and Stealth Rocks, plus Sturdy means it will always survive the first it. Additionally, with Choice Scarf and 70 Base Speed, it can avoid Taunt, and can Dragon Tail against counters before it is hit.]
Stealth Rocks
Dragon Tail
Roar
Reparudasu: @ Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Choroneko: @Leftovers
Mischievous Heart
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Persian: @ Leftovers
Technician
252 Hp / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Roar
Thief
Switcharoo
Purugly:
252 HP / 252 Speed
Jolly
Assist
Protect
Roar
Skarmary:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Spikes
Whirlwind
Roar
Counter
This way, you always Roar first... Skarmary is so you can set up Spikes against a foe, and let it die, Whirlwind and Roar will lessen the chance you will use Spikes/Stealth Rock.
Doesn't dragon tail also have negative priority?
I suppose that fixes the 1 poke for all hazards problem and still has a 86.67% chance of success (still less than 90).
Also rampardos can learn roar, whirlwind, and dragon tail, making it the best srer. With it as the srer and skarmory as the spiker, you have an 88.33% chance of selecting roar/ww/dtail.
Also, smeargle would be the spiker giving the best chance of selecting a phazing move (boosting it up back to 90 with anothe rpoke using sr), but is unlikely to get up more than 1 or 2 layers. Smeargle is also the poke you would if you wanted a layer of tspikes (better than 2 with constant switching), but wuld lower the switch chance to 83.33% chance with rampardos and skarmory.
I'd also recommend having a tspikes absorber on your team (unfortunately none learn resist). Perhaps a smeargle for spikes and roar/ww/tspikes drapion then (83.33% chance). or you could just run drapion with roar/ww/counter/thief.
I suppose that fixes the 1 poke for all hazards problem and still has a 86.67% chance of success (still less than 90).
Also rampardos can learn roar, whirlwind, and dragon tail, making it the best srer. With it as the srer and skarmory as the spiker, you have an 88.33% chance of selecting roar/ww/dtail.
Also, smeargle would be the spiker giving the best chance of selecting a phazing move (boosting it up back to 90 with anothe rpoke using sr), but is unlikely to get up more than 1 or 2 layers. Smeargle is also the poke you would if you wanted a layer of tspikes (better than 2 with constant switching), but wuld lower the switch chance to 83.33% chance with rampardos and skarmory.
I'd also recommend having a tspikes absorber on your team (unfortunately none learn resist). Perhaps a smeargle for spikes and roar/ww/tspikes drapion then (83.33% chance). or you could just run drapion with roar/ww/counter/thief.
