While the Rotom forms do make useful scarfer/specs users, lack of a ghost typing really hampers their effectivety. Have fun with your sub+Pain split, Cune never really needed pain split and neither did Rotom foms (that is, before the loss of ghost type). Pressure is also better with RestTalk sets, and Rotom is just less useful in veery class it would try to use. There are far better status-spreaders (Suicune still can burn half the time WoW would, not that he's a status spreader) and better scarfers, and better specs users, AND better screeners. So if you REALLY need a Scizor counter, then you might want to use it. In any other case, it is just outclassed
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Rotom Forms
- Thread starter Ditto
- Start date
I find rotom-h to be the most useful of all the rotom forms now. Granted, he's sr weak, but he has some very important resists and is one of the few usable fire types. I mean seriously, check this out. Resists fire, electric, grass, ice, flying, bug, x4 steel, immune to ground. If it wasn't for the sr weak, he'd probably be used way more, especially as a bulkier attacker, but at least it's got levitate to avoid spikes/tspikes.
I ended up using it after looking trying a ton of diffent pokes to counter those goddamn flying genies. Does it pretty well, with the exception of landlos, but he can't do much to me either.
I ended up using it after looking trying a ton of diffent pokes to counter those goddamn flying genies. Does it pretty well, with the exception of landlos, but he can't do much to me either.
I actually find Rotom-W to be one of the best water types available for this new metagame. It finds a special niche in effectively being able to tank and deal massive damage to both rain and sand teams. A defensive spread is a very solid counter to dory, being able to take a +2 rock slide and OHKO'ing back with a stab hydro pump. I have been using restalk + stabs which allows it to last a long time while still being a potent threat.
please tell me you're joking
you can't even compare suicune to rotom-w for reasons already mentioned, they serve different purposes...
edit: forgot, not all cunes have rest, so offensive variants will get beaten up by tspikes
and suicune cannot even hope for defeating or keeping at bay threats like vaporeon,gyarados landlos,doryuuzu and the list goes on...if suicune is not on full life it dies to landlos and doryuuzu at +2 cannot do much to vaporeon unless carrying hp electric and calm mind(which only offensive suicune does) and again cannot check well bulky gyarados without hp electric or roar..also rotom-w resists bounce which is a nice thing.and after a burn rotom-w has better defence than suicune(suicune only burns 30% of the time and rotom burns 75% of the time)...
so to sum things up...if suicune is offensive it really gets hampered by all entry hazzards especially t-spikes,has an electric weakness,has really poor coverage options compared to rotom(neutral t-bolt from rotom equals to a super effective hp electric from suicune,not to mention rotom has better offense) and finally doesn't have trick...
defensively rotom-h has will-o-wisp,t-wave,discharge,t-bolt,more resistances and immunities,better healing mekanism(pain split on such a low hp poke is nice,sleep talking is really subpar and unreliable)and immunity to spikes(t-spikes don't matter 'cause of rest).rotom-w is a much better all around-utility water poke than suicune,while sucine has better defences and can be a boosting tank that is difficult to kill,but requires good support such as elimination of strong grass and electric types and also elimination of any phazer unless it is the last poke...
Frankly this is a joke if you can't even understand the basic principle that they're two VERY different pokemon, not only in name but yes MOVEPOOL, typing, and immunity, then there really is no point in you entering the discussion because you fail to understand such a basic idea that the two are different let alone forget trick which really does set Rotom quite apart from Suicune and is easily one of the better trick-scarfers for reasons already stated in this thread that you don't want to accept as you're stuck seeing Rotom as a rest-sleep talker they way you'd play Suicune.
Moreover, its just as much of a joke to not even realize the coverage difference afforded by the sets that the two pokemon run - to simply scoff off Pain split really is ridiculous (common to most Rotom's during 4th gen that makes your dismissal of it as being something they now "need" because they lost their ghost typing just downright ignorant as its always been a viable alternative and in fact is more useful this gen because sleep talk just isn't as viable given the power and speed creep that choice scarf versions are far more useful in revenge killing or just screwing support/stall/set up Pokemon with trick or pain split). I wonder if you've even bothered to understand what the typing differences have afforded the Rotom forms in advantages rather than just the disadvantage of losing the immunity afforded by ghost.
Masterful likes to drop sweeping and unqualified statements.
Last time when I read Pokemon analyses and see "it serves a specific niche in the metagame" under the description, I would get irked and consider it a typical excuse for a plainly outclassed Pokemon. But that couldn't be further from the truth. When we go through our team-building routines, we won't be thinking "okay I want a Bulky Water" or "okay I want a revenge killer". There will be minute needs and specifications we tailor our choices towards - for example a bulky water that also resists Fighting to counter Blaziken, or a revenge killer with base speed > 100 and not weak to Pursuit.
Rotom-W does enjoy several qualities that make it particularly adept at fulfilling many such requirements. For example, it hard counters Waterfall/Bounce Gyarados and Earthquake/Acrobat Gliscor, and it can contribute to the F/W/G core by not being immediately destroyed by LO Starmie. If you need something that can spread Paralysis or Burn, Rotom-W does that as well. Lanturn wasn't OU, but many OU players managed to find ways to employ it effectively, either with an offensive Charge Beam set or as a simple Bulky Water (I remember it being featured in Bologo's archived RMT). Rotom-W has that same super-useful typing that made Lanturn viable at all. Along with a plethoric array of support options like dual screens, Volt Change and Pain Split.
Seriously, it's a good Pokemon.
Last time when I read Pokemon analyses and see "it serves a specific niche in the metagame" under the description, I would get irked and consider it a typical excuse for a plainly outclassed Pokemon. But that couldn't be further from the truth. When we go through our team-building routines, we won't be thinking "okay I want a Bulky Water" or "okay I want a revenge killer". There will be minute needs and specifications we tailor our choices towards - for example a bulky water that also resists Fighting to counter Blaziken, or a revenge killer with base speed > 100 and not weak to Pursuit.
Rotom-W does enjoy several qualities that make it particularly adept at fulfilling many such requirements. For example, it hard counters Waterfall/Bounce Gyarados and Earthquake/Acrobat Gliscor, and it can contribute to the F/W/G core by not being immediately destroyed by LO Starmie. If you need something that can spread Paralysis or Burn, Rotom-W does that as well. Lanturn wasn't OU, but many OU players managed to find ways to employ it effectively, either with an offensive Charge Beam set or as a simple Bulky Water (I remember it being featured in Bologo's archived RMT). Rotom-W has that same super-useful typing that made Lanturn viable at all. Along with a plethoric array of support options like dual screens, Volt Change and Pain Split.
Seriously, it's a good Pokemon.
As already stated, Rotom-W is looking pretty awesome. I thought at first it may outclass Lanturn but Lanturn is immune to electric which is a plus, though the immunity to ground and single 2x weakness to Grass is pretty awesome.
Rotom-F seems to be outclassed by Zapdos, so it won't see much, especially with its now useless ability in levitate. I think Rotom-M has it worse with all those weaknesses and how it's STABs are easily resisted.
Rotom-F seems to be outclassed by Zapdos, so it won't see much, especially with its now useless ability in levitate. I think Rotom-M has it worse with all those weaknesses and how it's STABs are easily resisted.
Rotom-F is so awesome.
How would it be outclassed by Burungeru? Remember Electric-typing? Remember 105 base SpA? Remember Levitate?
It could actually, y'know, spinblock Doryuuzu.
Rotom-F is the Ice one.
And what's Rotom-m?
M is the Mower one, as for Rotom-F I was referring to the fan forme, sorry for the confusion.
I love Frost-Rotom!
He resists Bolt-Beam and does Bolt-Beam!
He is much better on a Hail team.
He resists Bolt-Beam and does Bolt-Beam!
He is much better on a Hail team.
F for freezer. I usually see S for fan, probably because it looks like an S and there wasn't another good letter.
"Rotom-Spin"
It sucks that 3 of the Rotom appliances gained a Stealth Rock weakness in the generation shift (Frost, Heat, Fan). But Rotom-S becoming a Flying type is redundant with Levitate. Biggest fail I've ever seen.
Mowtom, Blowtom, Frotom, Pyrotom, Hydrotom.
Much Better names imo.
edit: EpicTurtle I suppose you could say I managed to... BLOW your mind?
Much Better names imo.
edit: EpicTurtle I suppose you could say I managed to... BLOW your mind?
^ Blowtom.... it made my day.
I do agree that the SR weakness on some of the forms are pretty bad.
I like how the Rotom Forms were the main spin blockers last Gen, and this Gen they more than half of then should have Rapid Spin Support.
I do agree that the SR weakness on some of the forms are pretty bad.
I like how the Rotom Forms were the main spin blockers last Gen, and this Gen they more than half of then should have Rapid Spin Support.
Cooky
Banned deucer.
I think people are overestimating the impact of the loss of the rapid spin immunity, rather one should mourn their newfound susceptability to Fighting and Normal moves as well as loss of STAB on Shadow Ball. Last Gen only stall teams utilised Rapid Spin (infact stall wars revolved around the move but w/e) and you never saw it used outside of that really. Also Burungeru is twice the bulky Ghost the Rotom formes ever were with far more bulk and Water STAB.
oh god hahaha
@above well burungeru is good, no denying that, but it cant run the amount of different sets that rotom could, such as scarf, specs, LO, sub pain split, defensive, and restalk, i don't think i missed any but if i did please don't kill me
Once Genesect is released i can expect Rotom-H's stock to rise dramaticly. Not only does it resist Genesect's coverage set of Bolt/Beam/Flamethrower/Bug Buzz, it can KO back with Overheat, and heal off damage with Pain Split taken from Stealth Rocks. You can also run a bulkier set with SpA and SpD EVs to guarantee Genesect doesn't get a Download boost.
Because Genesect can't touch it effectively, it forces the bug to switch out, making it a great counter.
Because Genesect can't touch it effectively, it forces the bug to switch out, making it a great counter.
masterful every time i read your posts i lough my ass out...!
yeah we all know how badly rotom-w is outclassed by suicune...it is so much that he made it to the top 10 of usage in bw ou..!
Yea man... Rotom-W is rape... He is alway a pain in my ass since I have starmie on most of my teams as a sweeper...
Suicune is good and all but i have yet to be set up on or seriously owned by suicune. This may be because I have a phazer/tricker on most of my teams but thats besides the point...
As a ton of people before me have said... its an entirely diff pokemon serving and entirely diff purpose... But i will say this... I see rotom-w WAY more often than suicune on wifi...
I am interested in the best tank sets.... any suggestions? he pisses me off so often that I have decided to just make one and keep it movin...
Edit: oh and btw... the typing issue... blocking rapid spin is definitely a nerf to him, but besides that, his new typing is actually alot better than it was... there are plenty of ghosts that could block spinning though, and for what I will use him for, I dont really mind stuff being spun away...
Suicune is good and all but i have yet to be set up on or seriously owned by suicune. This may be because I have a phazer/tricker on most of my teams but thats besides the point...
As a ton of people before me have said... its an entirely diff pokemon serving and entirely diff purpose... But i will say this... I see rotom-w WAY more often than suicune on wifi...
I am interested in the best tank sets.... any suggestions? he pisses me off so often that I have decided to just make one and keep it movin...
Edit: oh and btw... the typing issue... blocking rapid spin is definitely a nerf to him, but besides that, his new typing is actually alot better than it was... there are plenty of ghosts that could block spinning though, and for what I will use him for, I dont really mind stuff being spun away...
Suicune is good and all but i have yet to be set up on or seriously owned by suicune. This may be because I have a phazer/tricker on most of my teams but thats besides the point...
yeah ive been set up on by a ChestoRest Bold Suicune..not fun if you dont have a phazer or something that can set up on him and hit him with a STAB Thunderbolt/LEaf Storm. If he doesnt run Ice Beam, Clam Mind Virizion sluts all over him
yeah ive been set up on by a ChestoRest Bold Suicune..not fun if you dont have a phazer or something that can set up on him and hit him with a STAB Thunderbolt/LEaf Storm. If he doesnt run Ice Beam, Clam Mind Virizion sluts all over him