Spore thundy actually has more counters than dark void, with grass types like serperior having an easier time against spore thundy. Thundy's versatility would warrant banning, not just the presence of prankster spore. If annoying was a factor, we would ban klefki too.Or we can ban spore like I suggested earlier! Spore is the reason thundy is broken and it enables bs stategies like spore tail glow prankster baton pass on volbeat and other infuriating things. Just ban that!
I don't mean to derail the Spore Thundurus conversation, but does anyone know some counters to E-Speed Mega Lopunny? It's been wrecking me.
As for banning Spore vs banning Thundurus outright, Thundurus could still probably abuse Dark Void if Spore were banned.
Sap Sipper Goodra can run an attacking Dragon Move and there isn't really anything Spore Thundurus can do to it. (Physical is probably best for this purpose, to take advantage of Sap Sipper: +1 252 Adamant Dragon Tail is 60-70% to Thundurus, where a fully invested Draco Meteor is just short of a 1HKO unless you're Life Orb or something) There's plenty of potential Rest Talkers you could give a shot, too, especially since they can Sketch Quiver Dance or Coil or whatever if they don't have natural access to setup.I need some counters for "Taunt Spore Thundurus".
Someone please help me out
Cofagrigus!I don't mean to derail the Spore Thundurus conversation, but does anyone know some counters to E-Speed Mega Lopunny? It's been wrecking me.
Every time I've seen Mega Alakazam, it's been Tail Glow. Psystrike is just a waste of a Sketch: 25% damage increase over Psyshock, vs more than doubling your damage? Tail Glow Psyshock still does more damage than Calm Mind Psystrike. Psystrike doesn't even help against Clefable -if Clefable is Physically Defensive Psystrike has like a 1.2% chance of the 2HKO after Leftovers, while if it's Specially Defensive Psyshock is a reliable 2HKO, so Tail Glow Mega Alakazam isn't actually more bothered by Clefable than Psystrike Mega Alakazam.Mega Alakazam back to A, I've seen this a lot recently, dunno if it was the discussion that sparked its usage but I feel like A is justified as fuck, It's so fucking fast and there aren't a lot of scarfers out-pacing it but it's sheer power and speed is what should justify A, as it's a great pokemon when looked further upon. Psystrike hurts so... fucking... bad.
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 204-241 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 273-322 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 189-223 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 253-298 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Real power, god damn.
Mega Alakazam outspeeds Scarfed Pokemon starting from around 90 base Speed and below. Most Scarfers (And several Dragon Dancers) are in the vicinity of 80 Speed: if they're above 100 they mostly don't want/need the Scarf anyway. Base 50-ish and below that want to run Shift Gear (Or any other Speed doubler) to turn a slow, bulky attacker into a fast sweeper are also outsped by Mega Alakazam and not necessarily regular Alakazam.252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 231-274 (72.4 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psystrike vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 220-259 (60.2 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 292-344 (97.6 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Normal Alakazam with Life Orb is a bit stronger than Mega Alakazam though. It also has a better ability that allows it to freely switch in on status and not take damage from entry hazards. Not to mention using Mega Alakazam takes up your team's mega slot. Mega Alakazam gets 30 more base speed, but I don't see it outspeeding anything significant that normal Alakazam doesn't, except maybe Tornadus-T; both are still outsped by things like Scarf Keldeo. The extra bulk is also pretty insignificant against strong physical attackers. It definitely has a niche though, maybe for revenging Sand Rush Excadrill with Trace?
I tried it and it's not that bad but I kept thinking that I'd be better off just using like Heart Swap/Spore/other ridiculous move Thundy can sketch.I dunno, taunt nasty plot oblivion wing is pretty overwhelming too. Maybe suspect thundurus first and if other stuff is still broken by spore, try banning that too?
A set I've wanted to try out is nasty plot with nature power for a pseudo-extremespeed, albeit without +2 priority. Never got around to it though :(
Haven't seen many base 80 or below mons, bar Heatran, Clefable, Venusaur and Dragonite, (three are using it solely because it's a better CM, one has priority) running single stage boosting moves for speed when Geomancy (which is, in my opinion, sort of bad), Shell Smash and most commonly Shift Gear exist. Megazam isn't bad but I think in a meta where everyone can, and probably will, boost speed 2 stages or have priority, 150 speed is a little lame.Mega Alakazam outspeeds Scarfed Pokemon starting from around 90 base Speed and below. Most Scarfers (And several Dragon Dancers) are in the vicinity of 80 Speed: if they're above 100 they mostly don't want/need the Scarf anyway. Base 50-ish and below that want to run Shift Gear (Or any other Speed doubler) to turn a slow, bulky attacker into a fast sweeper are also outsped by Mega Alakazam and not necessarily regular Alakazam.
Mega Alakazam: Eh, I don't really know what it does. Yes, the Tail Glow set can sweep, but I feel you better off using bulkier poke with a Quiver Dance rather than wasting a Mega Slot that can be one shotted by Scarfers (pokes with 85 Speed or above with Scarf outspeed it, so there are quite a lot of Scarfers that can outspeed it).Clefable will drop to A+ next update, drop the issue for now and I'll bring up a potential drop further on, not sure though.
Next slate, all updates will be added on thursday next week
Mega Alakazam back to A, I've seen this a lot recently, dunno if it was the discussion that sparked its usage but I feel like A is justified as fuck, It's so fucking fast and there aren't a lot of scarfers out-pacing it but it's sheer power and speed is what should justify A, as it's a great pokemon when looked further upon. Psystrike hurts so... fucking... bad.
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 217-256 (68 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 204-241 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 273-322 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 189-223 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Diggersby: 253-298 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Real power, god damn.
Ditto raise
I like donkeys make a thing about it or something
Manaphy to A
Bulk, and its quiver dance rest dance set is bae, I've been using to amazing success as it handles priority twave
Mega Vensaur to A-
Rank fucking Hoopa-C people lmao
I've seen Scarfed V-Creators, as one example. You're also ignoring Quiver Dancers, and in general Special attackers run slower when it comes to boosting: there's no Special equivalent to Shift Gear. (Ignoring Geomancy, because it demands Power Herb and I agree that Geomancy is a problematic Sketch) Base 80 and below Pokemon tend to be bulkier than faster Pokemon, and some of the hardest hitting Pokemon in the game are in that range. Shift Gear Conkeldurr is a base 45, and Mega Alakazam outspeeds it while Alakazam doesn't. Guts Flame Orb Shift Gear Conkeldurr is silly powerful, and Mega Alakazam is one of the only things in the entire game that can outspeed it without boosting or Scarfing.Haven't seen many base 80 or below mons, bar Heatran, Clefable, Venusaur and Dragonite, (three are using it solely because it's a better CM, one has priority) running single stage boosting moves for speed when Geomancy (which is, in my opinion, sort of bad), Shell Smash and most commonly Shift Gear exist. Megazam isn't bad but I think in a meta where everyone can, and probably will, boost speed 2 stages or have priority, 150 speed is a little lame.
I rarely notice scarfs on the opposing team so maybe there's stuff seeing play there I don't know about.
I've got two checks to it -Skarmory and Cofagrigus- and a 'mon it can't switch in on fresh -Keldeo- and it's still a problem for my team. I can reliably stop it if it isn't running Wild Charge or Knock Off, but that's a pretty big if, and it has the obnoxious feature that Banded variants have to be handled completely differently from Swords Dance variants. It's one of the best Pokemon in the game right now -possibly the best- and even being well-prepared for it doesn't actually make it reliably manageable. I'd sooner put it into S than any of the things currently in S.Not really comfortable with placing Diggersby in S right now, feel like every team is so damn well prepared for Espeed that it's not as effective, similarly to how Mega Metagross is A+ in OU
A bulkier Pokemon with Quiver Dance doesn't hit nearly as hard as Tail Glow Mega Alakazam, and in fact all the next-closest Special Attackers are actually not really any better off than Mega Alakazam in bulk and/or noticeably slower... and often very vulnerable to important forms of priority: Latios is one of the better contenders for fitting your criteria (Slower bulkier), and it's weak to Mega Glalie and Mega Altaria's Extreme Speeds, for instance. If we add the criteria that the Pokemon must have natural access to Psyshock or Secret Sword -Quiver Dance Heatran is cool, but it can't push past Chansey- then competition is even more limited. Latios remains (As does Keldeo, though it's not really all that bulky and is weak to Pixispeed and Talonflame), but Magnezone, Heatran, Chandelure, etc drop off the list. It's basically: Mega Alakazam, Latios, Keldeo, Meloetta, Exeggutor (??), Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon... In Sylveon's case Scarf Boomburst and Geomancy are overall the better builds, and indeed Mega Gardevoir (And Mega Latios, admittedly) is the only competition that shouldn't give serious consideration to Geomancy if it wants to take Mega Alakazam's place as a Special setup sweeper, rather than Quiver Dance. These all end up doing somewhere under half Mega Alakazam's damage after a Tail Glow compared to them running Quiver Dance, which is, you know, a lot.Mega Alakazam: Eh, I don't really know what it does. Yes, the Tail Glow set can sweep, but I feel you better off using bulkier poke with a Quiver Dance rather than wasting a Mega Slot that can be one shotted by Scarfers (pokes with 85 Speed or above with Scarf outspeed it, so there are quite a lot of Scarfers that can outspeed it).
This is exactly my thoughts on it. Mega Latias is a great mon, but normally wouldn't be A+ rank material. The problem is that it matches up better with A+ mons than with A rank ones.Edit: On second thought it could be - I didn't realize our A+ had so many similar mons and thought it was mostly just Tran, Lop and Diggersby. I'd still hold off for at least a couple days because it doesn't just *seem* overrated to me, but is incredibly vulnerable to standard counterplay in this meta environment.
Ferrothorn is setup bait for anything that can tank a Power Whip and a Gyro Ball, loses massive amounts of utility in running a purely offensive set that can't do jack shit without setting up first, and I'm pretty sure it loses to Taunt+NP+Tbolt+O-Wing Thundurus anyways.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- Curse
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
OR
Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Curse
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
What about these sets