Roost is an okay move on Staraptor since it is worn down so quickly, but keep in mind that Staraptor is usually too frail to use it. Also, I wouldn't use it in place of Double-Edge, I would use it in your fourth slot, so Brave Bird / Close Combat / Double-Edge / Roost.
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Pokémon Staraptor
- Thread starter TaBuu
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Double-Edge is a must on Staraptor, as despite getting almost the same neutral coverage as Close Combat, Double-Edge is boosted by STAB and Reckless, making it a lot more powerful against those who resist Brave Bird and take neutral from CC and Double-Edge, such as Rotom-W.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-W: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-W: 145-171 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-W: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-W: 145-171 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not many things resist Double Edge. And it's very powerful. So it's a good move to be choice locked into, and the better option when you think your opponent may switch into an electric type (specially since most electrics in the meta also resist fighting).
I kinda like to use Roost instead of U-turn. You can regain any lost damage for attacks, status, and especially recoil. Of course, you can use U-turn to switch-out to a Wish user, use wish, and then switch Staraptor back out.
You are right, roost certainly can be used to heal Life Orb + Brave Bird + Double Edge + Reckless recoil. But I generally just concede and consider Staraptor a kamikaze bird, and just let it kill itself, like Darmanitan. But, a bulkier set with Intimidate and Roost definitely is viable.
I find giga impact is really nice on Staraptor considering he is a kamikaze anyway and it ensures what ever you hit is gonna die. most my games with staraptor have him killing one Pokemon with brave bird or close combat then switching out because the opponent switches into a counter then bringing him out late game to finish Pokemon with giga impact
Reckless Double Edge has a base power of 144, while Giga Impact has a base power of 150. 6 BP is totally not worth being unable to move for a turn.
I believe double edge is only slightly less powerfull than giga impact cause' reckless:
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 348-409 (102 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 333-393 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
It's only marginally better, and not worth the wait turn.
the extra power is worth it when its the difference between getting the ko or not on a Pokemon that if the enemy survives your dead anyway (I would only recommend using giga impact when there are 1 or 2 Pokemon left so you dont give the enemy a turn of set up )
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Let me explain. If you use giga impact, the opponent will come in next turn, with a set up sweeper, at set up, say, a dragon dance. Now, if you used double edge/brave bird, you could have died, or still be able to deal damage. If you get KOed by recoil, it's better, as you can then send out a different pokemon for the situation on the double down. Or, you still have your Staraptor intact. If you used Giga impact, you fall prey to set up sweepers.
guy read my post again I mentioned that before you posted plus considering I run an unaware pokemon on my team set up isnt scary unless its a sub toxic set
Still not worth the move slot, U-Turn/Roost is still better. 4% more damage isn't worth it
I am not very fond of using roost on a Pokemon that can't take a hit at full health
and usually needs choice items. 4 percent is huge when your looking to ko not 2 shot
Not giving the opponent a free turn to set up is huge when you want to win
that's why you use it with consideration and don't just spam it listen brave bird and close combat are still gong to be your main moves I only ever use giga impact late game and when I do that 4 percent is a game winning difference I have yet to give my opponent a free turn because I play smart
And you give up the ability to do anything to electric types early
game (which is the sole reason staraptor is used in OU). You won't be able to take rotom or zapdos out without giving the opponent the ability for a free turn, meaning talonflame or pinsir won't be setting up swords dances and sweeping their team. What exactly are you going to beat with giga impact that you won't with double-edge? You've failed to show that.
it has allowed me to kill the pokemon you just mentioned who survived my double edge as well as finishing some bulky waters and cresilla (pretty much anything just bulky to hang on)
"81% chance to OHKO". Double Edge is better by far. Keeping 100% accuracy and stronger (2 turns hits harder than Giga Impact, duh), there's no reason in hell to run Giga Impact. I'll get my calcs up:
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 211-250 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Double-Edge wins due to Cresselia (lets just say that it's just a dummy) Giga Impact has to use THREE turns to kill, as the 2HKO says after Leftovers, it doesn't include that Cresselia gets the recovery twice. Double-Edge can just go for it though, having the chance to 2HKO if the Cresselia is a dummy.
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 222-262 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 213-252 (50.7 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Do I really need to explain this? Double-Edge once again wins, due to Giga Impact taking that recharge turn. Double-Edge can just go for the 2HKO, once again. Now against a real attacking back opponent.
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 304-358 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 292-345 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 150-177 (48 - 56.7%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
So, once again, Double-Edge wins once more. Staraptor will go use Giga Impact, take a hit from Clefable's Moonblast, then (most likely) die to the second one due to the recharge. On the other hand, Double-Edge almost kills, Clefable hits back with a Moonblast, and Staraptor can freely attack again, winning, unlike Giga Impact.
I believe, that was a fine explanation, I don't see anyway Giga Impact is better. Even if you kill a Mon with it, a new Mon can come in, and has a free turn to kill Staraptor.
do any of you understand the definition of late game cause I have said it multible times I have used giga impact in a way that has won me games when double edge failed me there is no reason to get your panties in a knot it is a very situational move but a situation I find my self in often as I usauly use staraptor late game.
What move are you using it over?
- Close Combat? - Maybe Use it over this.
- Brave Bird? - No.
- Double Edge? - No.
- U Turn / Roost? - This is where it would be, just not over the above moves.
I have it replacing double edge.
The whole reason Staraptor is even used in OU is as a wallbreaking partner to Talonflame and/or Mega Pinsir.
It has the ability to wallbreak Tyranitar, Rotom-W and Zapdos (amongst others), which are commonly the only stops to these Pokemon. Once these are taken out, the other birds can effectively sweep.
Using either Double Edge or Close Combat will ensure the KO on all of these Pokemon. Using Giga Impact would give the opponent the opportunity to set up and sweep or deal massive amounts of damage to your team, opening up a late game clean up.
Staraptor should not be used late game. Its only use in OU is as a wallbreaking partner to the other birds, so it should deal its damage and suicide early game in order to break walls and allow for another bird to sweep.
Hyper Beam, Giga Impact and all variants are shit moves. There's no arguing this, giving your opponent a turn to do ANYTHING is absolutely horrible.
Stop talking about running Giga Impact on Staraptor. It hardly outdamages Reckless Double Edge anyway.
Stop talking about running Giga Impact on Staraptor. It hardly outdamages Reckless Double Edge anyway.
*facepalm*
Double Edge + Brave Bird + Close Combat + Giga Impact could work, but he way you have it, geez.
should not be used huh? well I do use it late game and it wins the game for me I have yet to give the opponent a free turn because I play smart and only use giga impact when either the pokemon left don't have sub or boosting moves(and I dont care about boosting moves because of my unaware Pokemon) as well as on the last Pokemon in play. This is a strategy that has been proven effective and I will keep using it until the meta game changes and it becomes no longer effective.
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