Pokémon Staraptor

[Plague von Karma]

*necroposting because I'm a necroposter*
Seriously, Choice Band Staraptor wrecks everything on the lower ladder. Spam Brave Bird or Double-Edge and everything dies. Period. It 1 shots Blissey for crying out loud.

Staraptor is not OU yet? Is Smogon high?

 

[Invok3r]

*necroposting because I'm a necroposter*
Seriously, Choice Band Staraptor wrecks everything on the lower ladder. Spam Brave Bird or Double-Edge and everything dies. Period. It 1 shots Blissey for crying out loud.

Staraptor is not OU yet? Is Smogon high?

Ranking in tiers is based on usage, not how good something is.

 

[Empress]

*necroposting because I'm a necroposter*
Seriously, Choice Band Staraptor wrecks everything on the lower ladder. Spam Brave Bird or Double-Edge and everything dies. Period. It 1 shots Blissey for crying out loud.

Staraptor is not OU yet? Is Smogon high?

How something performs on the lower ladder has no bearing on whether a mon deserves enough usage to move up to OU. Blissey isn't really relevant in OU anymore, as Chansey is the better wall. Moreover:

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 490-578 (76.3 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird or Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 441-520 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Close Combat can't even OHKO Chansey reliably. And if you use Brave Bird or Double-Edge on her, you're taking a massive amount of recoil damage.

 

[Alexey]

Staraptor, as much as I love this bird of rekt, sadly:
1) Kills itself with recoil without a way to recover the damage
2) Always has to choice-lock itself into something
3) Weak to rocks (which is deadly when coupled with #1)
4) Weak to priority
5) Has to run Band to actually wallbreak per se, in which case it can't take a hit at all, or Scarf to make up for its highly meh base 100 speed (in which case it loses its main selling point, namely reking everything that doesn't resist Normal/Flying, is lost)

Essentially, this thing is a Mega Heracross that kills itself in the process of wallbreaking. And it won't destroy stall, unlike other wallbreakers, too, because it will kill itself faster.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

How something performs on the lower ladder has no bearing on whether a mon deserves enough usage to move up to OU. Blissey isn't really relevant in OU anymore, as Chansey is the better wall. Moreover:

252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 490-578 (76.3 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird or Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 441-520 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Close Combat can't even OHKO Chansey reliably. And if you use Brave Bird or Double-Edge on her, you're taking a massive amount of recoil damage.

Since 100 speed isn't a super important speed tier anymore you can get away with running adamant nature.

Staraptor, as much as I love this bird of rekt, sadly:
1) Kills itself with recoil without a way to recover the damage
2) Always has to choice-lock itself into something
3) Weak to rocks (which is deadly when coupled with #1)
4) Weak to priority
5) Has to run Band to actually wallbreak per se, in which case it can't take a hit at all, or Scarf to make up for its highly meh base 100 speed (in which case it loses its main selling point, namely reking everything that doesn't resist Normal/Flying, is lost)

Essentially, this thing is a Mega Heracross that kills itself in the process of wallbreaking. And it won't destroy stall, unlike other wallbreakers, too, because it will kill itself faster.

That's why you pair it with Talonflame/Pinsir, Raptor weakens/kills their checks/counters and Talon/Pinsir sweeps, at least that's how it works in theory.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Should Final Gambit be mentioned as a viable option as well? It lets Staraptor get past Skarmory and dent other walls too.

 

[Kurona]

Should Final Gambit be mentioned as a viable option as well? It lets Staraptor get past Skarmory and dent other walls too.

I do remember it being discussed in the late XY analysis as a very good option worthy of a slash or even a first slash on most if not all sets. Definitely worth a mention.
That said, TaBuu is kind of dead, so...

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Should Final Gambit be mentioned as a viable option as well? It lets Staraptor get past Skarmory and dent other walls too.

What move would you drop though, all of raptors moves are kind of essential.

 

[pika pal]

What move would you drop though, all of raptors moves are kind of essential.

I'd probably say U-Turn. Since Final Gambit faints Staraptor anyway, it's generating the free switch on Skarmory regardless, and Final Gambit is specifically for weakening walls too sturdy for Staraptor without losing momentum.

That said, Starapor's overall viability is linked to the relative decline of Birdspam, whether his drop is a factor, result, or both of such, considering he was among Bird Spam's better wallbreaking options.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Staraptor is still an amazing Pokemon higher up. I still don't know why Talonflame is used over Staraptor. Like, why have priority when you have something that 1 shots everything it touches that isn't a defensive rock type like Regirock (Still shaves off like 50% of Regirock's health anyway)?

 

[heritage]

Staraptor is still an amazing Pokemon higher up. I still don't know why Talonflame is used over Staraptor. Like, why have priority when you have something that 1 shots everything it touches that isn't a defensive rock type like Regirock (Still shaves off like 50% of Regirock's health anyway)?

Talonflame has priority Brave Bird. That's what makes it so useful. Staraptor has so much power backing it up, but it lacks chances to use Roost to regain the health it's lost since it needs every moveslot for attacks. Talonflame has priority Roost as well. It also has moves like Bulk Up, Swords Dance, Will-O-Wisp and so on. Staraptor is a one trick pony that's very predictable in what it does. Then again, it's amazing at what it does, but Talonflame is simply better.
Also, Regirock is completely awful in OU and should never, ever be used.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Talonflame has priority Brave Bird. That's what makes it so useful. Staraptor has so much power backing it up, but it lacks chances to use Roost to regain the health it's lost since it needs every moveslot for attacks. Talonflame has priority Roost as well. It also has moves like Bulk Up, Swords Dance, Will-O-Wisp and so on. Staraptor is a one trick pony that's very predictable in what it does. Then again, it's amazing at what it does, but Talonflame is simply better.
Also, Regirock is completely awful in OU and should never, ever be used.

But Talonflame is even easier to predict, and who cares about the priority when it gets walled by Tyranitar? Staraptor can go straight through it if it uses the 2.2x power Brave Bird or even Close Combat. Also I've seen many more sets than just the 2.2x power set. Even stall sometimes for some odd and outlandish reason. Want Staraptor to have priority so badly? Here, have a Quick Claw. But Choice Band is a lot more desirable. Either way Talonflame, to me, is a very idiotic Pokemon. Requires no skill to use since it's for spammers and noobs. If someone can't counter it they are just bad at the game. Very bad.

 

[heritage]

But Talonflame is even easier to predict, and who cares about the priority when it gets walled by Tyranitar? Staraptor can go straight through it if it uses the 2.2x power Brave Bird or even Close Combat. Also I've seen many more sets than just the 2.2x power set. Even stall sometimes for some odd and outlandish reason. Want Staraptor to have priority so badly? Here, have a Quick Claw. But Choice Band is a lot more desirable. Either way Talonflame, to me, is a very idiotic Pokemon. Requires no skill to use since it's for spammers and noobs. If someone can't counter it they are just bad at the game. Very bad.

"Talonflame is easier to predict"
Talonflame has plenty more options like Bulk Up, SD, and Tailwind
Did you even read my post?
Also, don't be rude to people who can't handle Talonflame. It's a very threating Pokémon in the metagame. Why do you think it's A+ while Staraptor is C?

 

[AM]

But Talonflame is even easier to predict, and who cares about the priority when it gets walled by Tyranitar? Staraptor can go straight through it if it uses the 2.2x power Brave Bird or even Close Combat. Also I've seen many more sets than just the 2.2x power set. Even stall sometimes for some odd and outlandish reason. Want Staraptor to have priority so badly? Here, have a Quick Claw. But Choice Band is a lot more desirable. Either way Talonflame, to me, is a very idiotic Pokemon. Requires no skill to use since it's for spammers and noobs. If someone can't counter it they are just bad at the game. Very bad.

Don't start arguments like this. If you're gonna establish points make them constructive without the use of "it's for spammers and noobs" or any negative connotations associated with it. Many high ladder players and high level games have Talonflame incorporated in to their teams so please do not use your opinions and try to state them as facts. The discussion is for Staraptor so keep it as such. Thanks.

 

[Plague von Karma]

I am not stating them as facts, I was only expressing my own opinions.

 

[MelinCantrit34]

The niche that make Staraptor viable in the OU meta it's the Wallbreaking power that provides. Talonflame Outclass the Revenge killer Scarf set in every possible way just because of the Priority Brave bird. Choice Band Talonflame hits harder than Choice Scarf Staraptor, so there's no reason to Choice Scarf Staraptor when Talonflame exist. If you want to use Staraptor give it a Choice band please.

And sorry for the bad grammar because I dont know how to speak English correctly, and this is my First smogon Post. n_n

 

[DJTHED]

The niche that make Staraptor viable in the OU meta it's the Wallbreaking power that provides. Talonflame Outclass the Revenge killer Scarf set in every possible way just because of the Priority Brave bird. Choice Band Talonflame hits harder than Choice Scarf Staraptor, so there's no reason to Choice Scarf Staraptor when Talonflame exist. If you want to use Staraptor give it a Choice band please

Adamant Scarfraptor actually slightly outdamages Adamant Banded Talonflame.

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 151-178 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 145-172 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Very slight, however you can't really say Banded Talonflame outclasses Scarfraptor as the latter has Fighting and STAB Normal type coverage to get passed things that would normally completely wall Talonflame, such as Tyranitar, Rotom-W, etc... though you do lose your priority Brave Bird. Both have their own uses.

 

[Seru]

Talonflame have the Careful Stall set, Priority, and he has a lot more variety of set's.

80% of the Staraptors have hyper offense set with Choice Scarf, 10% are banded and the other 10% are some other item.

Talonflame kill whole teams so much easier than Staraptor, it's much harder to predict as well.

Talonflame outclasses Staraptor, if he did not, he should be on OU, not BL.

 

[DJTHED]

Talonflame outclasses Staraptor, if he did not, he should be on OU, not BL.

I disagree. While Talonflame is overall better and more versatile, it can't have that immediate offensive presence as Staraptor's Choice Band set if it is allowed to switch in for free (It can OHKO and 2HKO most pokemon with the appropriate coverage move, which Talonflame can't do without setup). Like I said before, these two pokemon have their own uses. Bandraptor's purpose is to overwhelm the opposing team with it's immense wallbreaking power while talonflame could be a stallbreaker, revenge killer, or late game sweeper. Whether the Scarfraptor set is outclassed by Talonflame is debatable, Staraptor's Choice Band set is what differentiates it from Talonflame, which keeps it from potentially becoming outclassed IMO.

 

[Caiahar]

The only significant problem I see with the Bandraptor is that it relies on a base 100 speed. Now that speed is decent, but in this metagame, there are many things that outspeed it. Raptor can't take much of a hit well with it's defenses.

 

[Kurona]

The only significant problem I see with the Bandraptor is that it relies on a base 100 speed. Now that speed is decent, but in this metagame, there are many things that outspeed it. Raptor can't take much of a hit well with it's defenses.

Except the point of it is to be a wallbreaker. Like Mega Heracross, Gardevoir, Medicham and Glalie, it doesn't care about speed and just tears apart slow walls with pure, unadultered power.
That said, yes the speed is a letdown and does not allow it to expand upon this role.

 

[pika pal]

The only significant problem I see with the Bandraptor is that it relies on a base 100 speed. Now that speed is decent, but in this metagame, there are many things that outspeed it. Raptor can't take much of a hit well with it's defenses.

For the purpose of a Wallbreaker, that Base 100 actually does prove very helpful, outspeeding even some of the faster defensive mons like:
Gliscor:
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 274-324 (77.8 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Defensive Lando-T:
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 174-205 (45.5 - 53.6%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Jirachi:
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 185-218 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Sub/Stallbreaker Victini:
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Victini: 310-366 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And those are just mons close to that speed tier. It obviously outspeeds other walls.
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Won't win, but a significant chunk to wear it out).
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 205-243 (67.4 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Staraptor's speed won't really let it outside the role it's in, but its good enough for the role it already plays.

 

[NinetyNineNo]

Wouldn't Double Edge be preferrable against Landoge?

 

[Kurona]

Wouldn't Double Edge be preferrable against Landoge?

It's affected by Intimidate, so you should use HP Ice instead.

Seriously though, BB and DE do the exact same damage aside from type matchups so it doesn't matter.

 

[Karxrida]

It's affected by Intimidate, so you should use HP Ice instead.

Seriously though, BB and DE do the exact same damage aside from type matchups so it doesn't matter.

0 SpA Life Orb Staraptor Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 156-187 (48.9 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
New meta.