Can you people please stop acting as if the lack of SR is advantageous only to sweepers and not checks as well?
A full health Dragonite looks scary but without SR softening its targets even a +1 Outrage fails to OHKO things like Starmie, Politoed and Keldeo.
While they still can't outright counter it, Dragonite can't attempt to Dragon Dance against them thinking it's safe thanks to Multiscale, so in practice lack of SR actually reduces its setup opportunities.
one of the reasons i am using weaville :DWelp, didn't take long for the ladder to devolve into Dragspam. Little bit of fun while it lasted.
You would think that at the beginning and try some pokemon like Frosslass and Custap Spikmory and maybe even toxic spikes, until you realize that a lot of teams have 3-4 Levitates and Flying types, at which point you start to wonder why the hell are you even bothering.Focus sash spam is really obnoxious regardless of whether youre facing a good player or not. It kinda makes me consider a dedicated spikes lead. I just hope this meta doesnt devolve to mindless spamming focus sash on every single setup sweeper though it seems this is where its heading to.
You're right. Focus Sash is unbeatable because sand, hail, priority, multi-hit moves, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and defensive Pokemon are non-existent. Thanks for reminding me! :)Focus sash spam is really obnoxious regardless of whether youre facing a good player or not. It kinda makes me consider a dedicated spikes lead. I just hope this meta doesnt devolve to mindless spamming focus sash on every single setup sweeper though it seems this is where its heading to.
Give it a week or 2. People are now testing everything under the sun that was SR weak. The paranoia to hazards entry is showing, since the pool of viable mons have increased somewhat, they try to 'hazard-proof' their team to free up the slot blocked by a spinner. A very natural noob tendency, until they realize the old picks are going to work just fine here too. I'm more optimistic about this.You would think that at the beginning and try some pokemon like Frosslass and Custap Spikmory and maybe even toxic spikes, until you realize that a lot of teams have 3-4 Levitates and Flying types, at which point you start to wonder why the hell are you even bothering.
I am sincerely hoping that Game Freak nerfs SR in one way or another, otherwise a metagame without SR is just as bad as a tier with SR as it currently stands.
I had a balanced hail team get to 2200 or so. Used ballon Tran with HP rock for Moltres & Volc and Golurk for Terrakion. Also had a scarf Keldeo to take advantage of rain in case I lost the weather war (which I usually did, can't switch Abomasnow into repeated scalds). The only disappointing thing about it was that you can't really use more than one hail abuser if you want to have any chance of beating most teams, so you have to pick between a blizzard spammer or Walrein. I went with a blizzard spammer.I haven't really seen tons of focus sash users. It's definitely way more viable, but I think sand, hail, and spikes are enough of a deterrent of focus sash spam becoming a huge thing. Speaking of hail, has anyone had any success with hail stall? I've been considering using it for my next ladder run, but the ideas I've had seem really weak to Moltres and Terrakion on paper.
Yea I think the general consensus is that SR could use a nerf, but Smogon stays true to game mechanics.You would think that at the beginning and try some pokemon like Frosslass and Custap Spikmory and maybe even toxic spikes, until you realize that a lot of teams have 3-4 Levitates and Flying types, at which point you start to wonder why the hell are you even bothering.
I am sincerely hoping that Game Freak nerfs SR in one way or another, otherwise a metagame without SR is just as bad as a tier with SR as it currently stands.
Fucking. This. Seriously.Focus sash spam is really obnoxious regardless of whether youre facing a good player or not. It kinda makes me consider a dedicated spikes lead. I just hope this meta doesnt devolve to mindless spamming focus sash on every single setup sweeper though it seems this is where its heading to.
I don't think Dragonite is broken tbh. Good, but not broken. Multiscale isn't that difficult to break, and at +1 it's not tough to revenge with a scarfer. The only pokemon that sticks out to me as broken is Kyurem-Black but it was already kind of broken with Stealth Rocks.tbh, I think the biggest problem with this ladder is that we don't/can't ban anything as of yet. The diversity is awesome, but there seem to be some threats [people mention Dragonite in particular, and I can definitely see why], which would deserve a suspect test, but hasn't gotten one due to the nature of this ladder being unofficial.
Actually this ladder is so informal that a suspect test would hardly be necessary. This is as theorymon as the ladder will get, there's no harm in banning or unbanning anything on a whim just to see what kind of impact it will make (correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's how some Other Metagames do it.) We'd probably learn a lot more that way than we would if we just let this metagame get stale, which by the looks of recent posts seems to be already happening.tbh, I think the biggest problem with this ladder is that we don't/can't ban anything as of yet. The diversity is awesome, but there seem to be some threats [people mention Dragonite in particular, and I can definitely see why], which would deserve a suspect test, but hasn't gotten one due to the nature of this ladder being unofficial.
Agreed. The only thing that is anywhere close to more trouble than it's worth is Dragonite and Focus Sash spam, and Spikes completely crushes the latter and a well-built team and smart play deals with the former.Actually this ladder is so informal that a suspect test would hardly be necessary. This is as theorymon as the ladder will get, there's no harm in banning or unbanning anything on a whim just to see what kind of impact it will make (correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's how some Other Metagames do it.) We'd probably learn a lot more that way than we would if we just let this metagame get stale, which by the looks of recent posts seems to be already happening.
This would be better than Custap Skarm js but the gist if your point is valid.Looking at the Ubers tier, I think there's one poke that could be dropped down, and that's Deoxys-D. Without Stealth Rock, one of his main selling points - guaranteed hazards - is much less valuable. What else can he provide? Dual Screens, maybe, but compared to say, Custap Skarm, I don't think Deoxys would provide enough offensive momentum to make him the broken threat he used to be. Just my 2¢, I think he'd be worth experimenting with but I could be wrong.