Resource SV OU Post-HOME Viability Ranking Thread [ Final Update: Post #280 ]

[BolTingBlazie]

Nom time:
B > B+/A-
Actually kinda good in practice. Double dance can be a very interesting and a deceptively good wincon, and tera can allow it to become a surprisingly scary wallbreaker. Definitely one of the most underrated things here right now. Yeah it can be a little matchup fishy but since we have no volc, but it can still kinda do the same thing to a lesser degree, albeit not nearly as good due to lacking the coverage, but boy does this thing hit surprisingly hard with stabs on its double dance set. It is quite matchup fishy but it can be insane in the right matchups
A+ > S- or S
An insanely good defensive pokemon that provide invaluable defensive support and utility in this crazy OU environment. Glowking is a crazy special wall with fantastic defensive utility that can not only hit things hard with a fantastic movepool, but it can set up future sights and provide slow pivots and free switch-ins for many pokemon that benefit from its presence. Mon is super easy to slap onto all sorts of teams, even hyper offense due to its surprsingly good breaking power and chilly reception + future sight providing a ton of beneficial utility for tons of different teamstyles.

Also Agree with dropping to S- it definitely feels its 4mss a little more than before, even with encore. Still an incredible offensive mon though!

Other agreed noms:
B > B-
A- > A
B > B+
A > A+
A- > A
B- > B/B+

 

[UnfortunateSal]

I'm going to suggest

C -> C+
also way higher

I don't really know exactly where, but I feel that this Pokemon is a bit underrated, and not just because of Stall, but Balance. Part of this is because everyone currently has Talonflame as a Physically Defensive spread, and I am going to suggest that that is not the only viable set, let alone the best one.

Talonflame @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fire / Dark / Water (usually you won't Tera to be frank)
EVs: 248 HP / 236 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature / Careful Nature
- Your STAB (I will go into detail later) / Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn / Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Roost

The main issue with this spread is it cannot come in on Kingambit most of the time, but this spread is not meant to do that. It's meant to check the Pokemon it doesn't need Defensive investment to check, Special Attacking Fairy-Types, pivot and Defog on most Gholdengo sets.
Let's go in order:

(pivot/1v1/burn proc)
4 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 96-114 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
watch out for Booster Max Atk though
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 169-200 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(pivot/1v1)
252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 121-143 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Enamorus Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 162-191 (45 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(more like iron variance amirite, it can check some well and not others, I'd be here forever for every set but here is SD since it is common right now)
252 Atk Iron Valiant Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 141-166 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 130-153 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

(pivot)
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 83-98 (23 - 27.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage

(pivot/burn proc on setup sets, not band)
0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 90-106 (25 - 29.4%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO
80 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 69-81 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
+2 80 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 138-162 (38.3 - 45%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

(pivot/burn proc, knock off switch might not be worth, up to your discretion and team matchup)
252 Atk Iron Treads Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 78-92 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Rapid Spin vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 66-78 (18.3 - 21.6%) -- 89.4% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Iron Treads Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 126-149 (35 - 41.3%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO

(it actually can decently wall all conventional garchomp sets, funnily, don't come in on life orb modest chomp though)
0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 108-127 (30 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 222-263 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 110-133 (30.5 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(pivot)
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 120-141 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 100-118 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 97-114 (26.9 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(pivot, only if booster set)
132 SpA Iron Moth Psychic vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 97-115 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 64-76 (17.7 - 21.1%) -- 59.1% chance to 4HKO
(can fish one time safely, do not rely at all)

(duh)

A lot of these should be self-explanatory. Using a SpDef spread, most of these sets on most of these Pokemon simply cannot easily touch Talonflame without good chip. However, Moltres is right there, and does all of this better, 100%. Moltres has much better stats, Talonflame is abouta take 30% from every neutral hit in the game.

What Talonflame has that Moltres doesn't, and I'd argue gives it a higher niche than C, is Defog. and without further ado, here is how this spread can scout and ultimately beat Gholdengo at the hazard game.



To start, for reference, the base 252 Spa Gholdengo Shadow Ball does a considerable chunk.

252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Talonflame: 123-145 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Which isn't nice, not at all. But, Talonflame does have reliably recovery, and with HDB it can come in, use attack/Pivot/Roost back to full. This spread makes it exactly one Speed higher than Timid No Scarf Gholdengo.

Scarf is more of a problem, due to the ability to click again. This is where you can run Tera Dark if you want, and attempt to beat it back, but generally, against most teams you want to keep your original typing. I went with SpAtk STAB on my sets but here is some calcs and pro's/con's for the main 4 I expect could have a niche.

-Flamethrower

No thrills. 2HKOs uninvested Gholdengo easily. Full accuracy. Struggles against invested, though most I've seen as of late are offensively invested.

0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-Fire Blast

Slight thrills. Lower accuracy, but much more consistent against max HP Gholdengo. Much lower HP which could suck if you need to chase out Gholdengo repeatedly.

0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Talonflame Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 164-194 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO

-Flare Blitz

Physical move, recoil, pretty high power. With Careful, will do considerably more to Gholdengo, if you are fine with the recoil. The most consistent option to 2HKO Gholdengo, however it will hurt

0 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 228-270 (72.3 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 228-270 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Both of which can push you into a Shadow Ball 2HKO, if my calculations are not incorrect.

252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 236 SpD Talonflame: 135-160 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO

(using the 246 damage roll)

-Flame Charge

Ultra mega heat spicy spice, you use this to outspeed Scarf Gholdengo. This is dumb, do not use it.

0 Atk Talonflame Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 96-114 (30.4 - 36.1%) -- 32.5% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Talonflame Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 96-114 (25.3 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

It could be funny, though.

The basic order of operations is

-Scout Gholdengo set bycoming in and clicking Roost
-If Scarf, play safe and go to your Ghost resist,
-If Timid, you can 1v1, try to Defog on the switch out
-If it Tera Ghosts, run
-If else, you are also probably fine

It isn't perfect, the main thing being that Scarf Trick can cripple Talonflame massively, but that's why I don't see this as a "good" Pokemon, I think it just has a niche.

anywho, I think that being able to more reliably get off hazards against Gholdengo gives Talonflame a bigger niche than C Rank, especially when Fire/Flying is a really coveted type for walling Fairy/Ground at the same time right now. Is Talonflame a good Pokemon? Not really, but I think it is slightly underrated. What has changed for the Pokemon is the influx of Enamorus giving it more opportunities, in my opinion, which means a lot.

C -> C+

Worth noting that if you don't run a physical move on your Fire/Flying type, CM Enamorus just beats you, so it feels super mandatory to run that

But yeah, not sure about Talonflame but Moltres definitely seems like a good mon, its typing in combination with Flame Body really helps, it deals with Ice Spinner Great Tusk really well (though it hates Knock Off for obvious reasons), can slow down Kingambit a lot with WIll-O-Wisp, and ruins most Landorus-T sets completely (Talonflame probably does more or less the same thing overall so yeah, I can see it rising up too)

 

[UnfortunateSal]

Apologies for the double post, but:

Landorus-T -> A

I feel like Landorus-T is being severely underestimated in this metagame, and I absolutely think it has very good reason to be used over Great Tusk. I don't know how good Scarf / SD sets are, all I know is that I've been using the ol' reliable physically defensive Rocky Helmet set and it performs really, really well, in spite of the loss of Knock Off and Toxic.

So, there are 2 things that Landorus-T does that Great Tusk can't. The first is obviously pivoting around with U-Turn, which is obvious;ly really valuable, especially for bulky offense teams where you really want your big threats to pivot in safely. But the main reaosn I've found is that Landrous-T is the single best Pokemon at slowing down opposing physical offense. Landorus-T can come in on a physical attacker, Intimidate it, get Rocky Helmet chip, even taunt it to prevent it from setting up too much if it has to, and if necessary, keep pivoting into it until it's no longer a problem. Which is something Great tTusk cannot do! It may be bulky as hell, but it doesn't actually slow things down in the same way Landorus-T does! And given the amount of ridiculously dangerous physical sweepers in the tier, I find this absolutely invaluable, and this is something that Great Tusk can never do, especially since it comes in so often that it ends up being weakened. Of course, Landorus-T has the same problem, but the key difference is that Great Tusk can't do anything if it's at low health. Landorus-T, on the other hand, has Intimidate (and Rocky Helmet but Great tusk can still technically carry that) making it, in my opinion, the best Pokemon to sac in order to prevent a lategame sweep. This is absolutely massive for, again, bulky offense teams that aren't agressive enough to consistently prevent setup, but are okay with sacing mons against a setup sweeper in order to get an offensive threat in against said setup sweeper, live a hit, and KO it. Pair that with Landorus-T's excellent defensive typing and you have an extremely good glue mon that can take repeated hits and doesn't even mind taking a beating too much. Definitely at least on par with Zamazenta and Amoonguss, and definifely way better than the likes of Dondozo and Toxapex which tend ot be too passive and easily overwhelmed. Landorus-T doesn't mind being overwhelmed, it doesn't mind dying, because it is an excellent team player that will always provide great defensive support for its teammates.

Oh, and sidenote, but while losing Knock Off sucks ass, there's no sugarcoating this, on the other hand gaining Taunt is REALLY good for it imo. On top of blocking excessive setup, Taunt allows it to shut down walls that it has historically struggled against, giving it utiity, not just against offensive teams, but defensive ones as well. Ting-Lu? Amoonguss? Corv? Landorus-T does not fear any of these like it would have last gen. It laught at them. Okay maybe not at Ting-Lu's Ruination but it does prevent Spikes which is pretty big, and again, Landorus-T does not mind being at 40% that much.

If I were completely honest, I would push this for A+ rank, but A rank is probably fair given the competition from Great Tusk, though... once again, Landorus-T has some very important advantages.

Replays to prove my point:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1895353028-i35vehx98kmki45fuq467dk4z1xppvgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1895351221

I especially want to highlight the second replay where it managed to chip a boosted Roaring Moon, a mon that is surprisingly hard to deal with especially after Tera, into range where Kingambit could kill it with Sucker Punch. Great Tusk could never, it just dies from +1 Attack Protosynthesis Acro lol. This is only one example, but it is imo a very good one and only one of the multiple instances where Landorus-T is able to slow down the pace of the battle enough for your bulky offense team to steal back momentum it lost when the opponent sets up with its broken setup sweeper / choice bander (and I also assume that a team that is less reliant on winning by spamming the strongest priority move in the game accounting for non-tera STAB would get more use out of the attack drops than this one does, so maybe this admittedly meme-y team isn't the best showcase of Landorus-T's skills but I know these skills are there, you can clearly see them)

tldr; Landorus-T's downfall has been greatly exaggerated and it is still a top-tier mon, do not sleep on this thing

 

[Magcargo]

A+ > S- or S
An insanely good defensive pokemon that provide invaluable defensive support and utility in this crazy OU environment. Glowking is a crazy special wall with fantastic defensive utility that can not only hit things hard with a fantastic movepool, but it can set up future sights and provide slow pivots and free switch-ins for many pokemon that benefit from its presence. Mon is super easy to slap onto all sorts of teams, even hyper offense due to its surprsingly good breaking power and chilly reception + future sight providing a ton of beneficial utility for tons of different teamstyles.

The MUs vs Samur-H, TIng-Lu, and Kingambit are really, really bad though. It does have tools some tools to disrupt them as they switch-in like T-Wave, Toxic, Trick + Black Sludge, and Flamethrower + some other options like the aforementioned Colbur Berry, but in the 1v1, it completely crumples because of its low Speed. What's worse is that it can't really use Tera as a "get outta jail-free card" vs these guys since Samur-H and Ting-Lu are just spamming hazards. It can help vs Gambit I guess, but unless you use Focus Blast, the best you are gonna do is cripple it with Trick or Status, which can be useful, but other Pokemon like Dragapult can do this w/o wasting Tera. Gholdengo, a similar Pokemon in A+, makes progress a bit easier vs these guys, with Air Balloon NP using Ting-Lu as setup fodder (watch out for Red Card!) & Trick Scarf being devastating vs an Endgame Gambit + Scarf Make it rain letting it severely weaken Tusk, making Tusk easy pickings for Dengo's buddies on hazard stack. Slowking-G is still very good, but imo its about on par w/ Dengo atm.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Apologies for the double post, but:

Landorus-T -> A

I feel like Landorus-T is being severely underestimated in this metagame, and I absolutely think it has very good reason to be used over Great Tusk. I don't know how good Scarf / SD sets are, all I know is that I've been using the ol' reliable physically defensive Rocky Helmet set and it performs really, really well, in spite of the loss of Knock Off and Toxic.

So, there are 2 things that Landorus-T does that Great Tusk can't. The first is obviously pivoting around with U-Turn, which is obvious;ly really valuable, especially for bulky offense teams where you really want your big threats to pivot in safely. But the main reaosn I've found is that Landrous-T is the single best Pokemon at slowking down opposing physical offense. Landorus-T can come in on a physical attacker, Intimidate it, get Rocky Helmet chip, even taunt it to prevent it from setting up too much if it has to, and if necessary, keep pivoting into it until it's no longer a problem. Which is something Great tTusk cannot do! It may be bulky as hell, but it doesn't actually slow things down in the same way Landorus-T does! And given the amount of ridiculously dangerous physical sweepers in the tier, I find this absolutely invaluable, and this is something that Great Tusk can never do, especially since it comes in so often that it ends up being weakened. Of course, Landorus-T has the same problem, but the key difference is that Great Tusk can't do anything if it's at low health. Landorus-T, on the other hand, has Intimidate (and Rocky Helmet but Great tusk can still technically carry that) making it, in my opinion, the single best Pokemon to sac in order to prevente a lategame sweep. This is absolutely massive for, again, bulky offense teams that aren't agressive enough to consistently prevent setup, but are okay with sacing mons against a setup sweeper in order to get an offensive threat in against said setup sweeper, live a hit, and KO it. Pair that with Landorus-T's excellent defensive typing and you have an extremely good glue mon that can take repeated hits and doesn't even mind taking a beating too much. Definitely at least on par with Zamazenta and Amoonguss, and definifely way better than the likes of Dondozo and Toxapex which tend ot be too passive and easily overwhelmed. Landorus-T doesn't mind being overwhelmed, it doesn't mind dying, because it is an excellent team player that will always provide great defensive support for its teammates.

Oh, and sidenote, but while losing Knock Off sucks ass, there's no sugarcoating this, on the other hand gaining Taunt is REALLY good for it imo. On top of blocking excessive setup, Taunt allows it to shut down walls that it has historically struggled against, giving it utiity, not just against offensive teams, but defensive ones as well. Ting-Lu? Amoonguss? Corv? Landorus-T does not fear any of these like it would have last gen. It laught at them. Okay maybe not at Ting-Lu's Ruination but it does prevent Spikes which is pretty big, and again, Landorus-T does not mind being at 40% that much.

If I were completely honest, I would push this for A+ rank, but A rank is probably fair given the competition from Great Tusk, but... once again, Landorus-T has some very important advantages.

Replays to prove my point:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1895353028-i35vehx98kmki45fuq467dk4z1xppvgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1895351221

I especially want to highlight the second replay where it managed to chip a boosted Roaring Moon, a mon that is surprisingly hard to deal with especially after Tera, into range where Kingambit could kill it with Sucker Punch. Great Tusk could never, it just dies from +1 Attack Protosynthesis Acro lol. This is only one example, but it is imo a very good one and only one of the multiple instances where Landorus-T is able to slow down the pace of the battle enough for your bulky offense team to steal back momentum it lost when the opponent sets up with its broken setup sweeper / choice bander (and I also assume that a team that is less reliant on winning by spamming the strongest priority move in the game accounting for non-tera STAB would get more use out of the attack drops than this one does, so maybe this admittedly meme-y team isn't the best showcase of Landorus-T's skills but I know these skills are there, you can clearly see them)

tldr; Landorus-T's downfall has been greatly exaggerated and it is still a top-tier mon, do not sleep on this thing

The reasons use mentioned aren't good enough to use Lando over Tusk. Tusk provides unmatchable role compression in the tier and not just being a physical tank, that just happens to be one of its attributes.

Lando might be underrated given its useful in its niche, but it's by no means a replacement for Tusk on any team. Tusk does several essential things in one slot that no other mon can do, including Lando.

 

[UnfortunateSal]

The reasons use mentioned aren't good enough to use Lando over Tusk. Tusk provides unmatchable role compression in the tier and not just being a physical tank, that just happens to be one of its attributes.

Lando might be underrated given its useful in its niche, but it's by no means a replacement for Tusk on any team. Tusk does several essential things in one slot that no other mon can do, including Lando.

I don't really agree with this, honestly. The only thing Great Tusk does that is extremely valuable and almost impossible to find elsewhere is Rapid Spin, which yes, is pretty amazing, but it's very feasible and not too hard to build a team that doesn't need hazard removal, especially with Heavy-Duty Boots being an option (besides, a few Great Tusk sets do not even run Rapid Spin afaik, which kinda proves my point here). Besides that, the role of a Dark resist can be replicated by other Pokemon without much difficulty (Valiant, Kingambit, Enamorus, Zamazenta, Ting-Lu, Samurott all do this too) and I don't think Great Tusk really does anything else that is both essential and that can't be done by much else, particularly Landorus-T, unless I'm missing something (maybe Knock Off? But I wouldn't call that essential by any means, it's nice I guess, but nowhere near essential). You really do not need to run Great Tusk on every single team, just, like, 80% of them lol.

And I can twist this in the other direction too. Lando-T can do several essential things in one slot (slowing down physical attackers, pivoting, Ground immunity, Fighing resist, shutting down walls with Taunt, Stealth Rocks), and nothing else can do all that at once. Great Tusk is obviously more viable, not denying that at all, but you can absolutely build a good team that benefits from what Lando-T provides much more than it benefits from what Great Tusk provides.

 

[superstrike66]

The reasons use mentioned aren't good enough to use Lando over Tusk. Tusk provides unmatchable role compression in the tier and not just being a physical tank, that just happens to be one of its attributes.

Lando might be underrated given its useful in its niche, but it's by no means a replacement for Tusk on any team. Tusk does several essential things in one slot that no other mon can do, including Lando.

Also while Intimidate helps the entire team eat hits, Tusk actually takes less physical damage than Lando (albeit slightly), even when the opponent is at -1. So the elephant is still a better physical tank when it 1v1s threats.

0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 87-103 (23.4 - 27.7%) -- 81.9% chance to 4HKO

-1 0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 81-96 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

[UnfortunateSal]

Also while Intimidate helps the entire team eat hits, Tusk actually takes less physical damage than Lando (albeit slightly), even when the opponent is at -1. So the elephant is still a better physical tank when it 1v1s threats.

0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 87-103 (23.4 - 27.7%)

-1 0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 81-96 (25.3 - 30%)

Sorry, don't want to be annoying about this but gotta correct you here, you're using no bulk on both mons and when you actually invest, then:

0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 58-69 (13.3 - 15.8%)
-1 0 Atk Tera Normal Mew Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 51-60 (13.3 - 15.7%)

And on a stronger move (obviously more relevant):

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Mew Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 258-304 (67.5 - 79.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Mew Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 298-352 (68.6 - 81.1%)

Boy I sure do love damage calcs, they make so much sense! But yeah, let's not split hairs here, these two take exactly as much damage from neutral physical attacks. (and techncially lando and tusk both want to creep jolly gambit and tusk has to invest like 36 speed EVs to do this and lando does this with only 4, so the elephant loses 34 defense IVs, but also, whatever)

 

[Highv0ltag3]

I overall agree with most of the official viability rankings, but here are some things I disagree with:

-Clodsire from C+ to B+

Although it is true that this metagame is both more offensive and made up mostly of physical attackers, Clodsire still thrives on Stall and certain Fat teams, being able to shut down Zapdos, most Enamorus sets and Choice Specs Dragapult. Although Iron Valiant does run Physical sets more often now, these still lack the coverage to hit Specially Defensive Clodsire for a 2hko. Clodsire is also better than Ting-Lu at handling Gholdengo.

-Sneasler from A to B

Sneasler is stupidly overrated. It would thrive more in a slow bulky meta where it had many chances to activate Dire Claw/Poison Touch, rather than the offensive meta in which we currently play. It has hard counters such as physicaly defensive Gholdengo / Dondozo and is too frail to sweep with the unburden set vs teams that have any forms of priority users. Speed and Stealth Rock resistance is very good, but let´s not forget that having both of your STABs resisted by poison types, is terrible, making it tera reliant to break through Slowking/Amoonguss etc.

-Heatran from A- to B-

Heatran is a very powerfull wallbreaker when it doesn´t miss magma and the opponent doesnt have a Dragonite. Unfortunately, it has to rely on tera too often to break through things like Ting-Lu and even Dondozo safely, ruining it´s already incredible dual typing. Whenever Heatran got Terastallized in Wcop, there were big consequences, due to it´s inability to no longer handle pokemon like Slowking or Zapdos. It also naturally matches up badly vs most top mons in the tier: Great Tusk, Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, Enamorus, Samurott-H, etc.

-Armarouge from D to C+

First of all, Armarouge is almost objectively better than Polteageist. Due to Endure, it isn´t as weak to Samurott-Hisui, as it doesn´t have to rely on sash as much, and we have seen it sweep a few teams in Wcop, having good synergy with the new Battle Bond Greninja.

Psyspam obviously took a hit with the introduction of Samurott-Hisui, but the match-up is still very much playable. Most teams withouth Ting-Lu or Samurott-Hisui also fold extremely fast to Armarouge, as teams who rely on Slowking-Galar + Kingambit to absorb special hits get easily swept by Armarouge.

 

[pika pal]

0

-Sneasler from A to B

Sneasler is stupidly overrated. It would thrive more in a slow bulky meta where it had many chances to activate Dire Claw/Poison Touch, rather than the offensive meta in which we currently play. It has hard counters such as physicaly defensive Gholdengo / Dondozo and is too frail to sweep with the unburden set vs teams that have any forms of priority users. Speed and Stealth Rock resistance is very good, but let´s not forget that having both of your STABs resisted by poison types, is terrible, making it tera reliant to break through Slowking/Amoonguss etc.

Dire Claw Sneasler is garbage unless you're fishing for Hax, and I will continue to hold to this position. You're giving up 50% and Contactless damage from Gunk Shot for a status chance you get to fire maybe 2-3 times per battle given this thing's fraility. It's like running Icicle Crash over Triple Axel for Flinch Chance on Gen 8 Weavile to me.

A sweeper being stopped by Dondozo is a common issue but need more than that to knock something down that far. As for Gholdengo, Choice Band Sneasler runs Fire Punch and Unburden SD runs Tera Blast Ground, both of which 1-2HKO Defensive Gholdengo anyway (and these are the only sets that give a shit about Gholdengo coming in since one's a Pivot and Scarf is the same or Cleaning after checks should be dealt with). It's not like Gholdengo is a particularly difficult Pokemon to prepare for in the tier that a team member loses value for losing to (if I "need" to run it with Kingambit or Great Tusk, they aren't very hard to find a team slot for).

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 182-216 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tera Ground Sneasler Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 198-234 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tera Ground Sneasler Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 390-462 (103.1 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The Poison type point is a thing on paper, but 2 of the 3 other Poison types on the Viability Rankings atm (Amoongus, Muk-A, and Glowking) are neutral to one of its STABs anyway or a Coverage move it already runs standard like Tera Ground or Fire Punch. This also demonstrates another reason I say run Gunk Shot
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 288-340 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 242-286 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Muk-Alola: 373-439 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Muk-Alola: 249-294 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sneasler Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Muk-Alola: 372-438 (89.8 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

That leaves Glowking as a fair point, though again, watch out for Tera Blast Ground if Sneasler has its Tera available.

The bigger things for Sneasler to be wary of would be getting Unburden activated since it's challenged to set-up what it needs on the turn-of-entry for the S-Ranks (needs +2 to beat a neutral Tera Kingambit, Chip on 0/4 Great Tusk much less defensive, Unburden to activate which is weird for Booster Valiant or Dragapult while lacking an OHKO option for the latter). That said I'm pretty sure those issues are what land it in A/A- rather than the dramatic drop to B with the more team specific stuff like Rain or Goltres. Sneasler eats well in a more offensive Metagame for similar reason to Weavile, where it can beatdown things before the stray breeze that kills it, trading the "force progress" option of Knock Off for arguably better coverage and abilities that actually... do anything for it as progress or a Win Condition.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

The MUs vs Samur-H, TIng-Lu, and Kingambit are really, really bad though. It does have tools some tools to disrupt them as they switch-in like T-Wave, Toxic, Trick + Black Sludge, and Flamethrower + some other options like the aforementioned Colbur Berry, but in the 1v1, it completely crumples because of its low Speed. What's worse is that it can't really use Tera as a "get outta jail-free card" vs these guys since Samur-H and Ting-Lu are just spamming hazards. It can help vs Gambit I guess, but unless you use Focus Blast, the best you are gonna do is cripple it with Trick or Status, which can be useful, but other Pokemon like Dragapult can do this w/o wasting Tera. Gholdengo, a similar Pokemon in A+, makes progress a bit easier vs these guys, with Air Balloon NP using Ting-Lu as setup fodder (watch out for Red Card!) & Trick Scarf being devastating vs an Endgame Gambit + Scarf Make it rain letting it severely weaken Tusk, making Tusk easy pickings for Dengo's buddies on hazard stack. Slowking-G is still very good, but imo its about on par w/ Dengo atm.

I do think the utility is crazy on glowking even in its bad matchups so I think its about on par with zapdos. (Both could easily be s-.)

 

[Firer4]

Imma make the first move like I did last gen.

Rises

View attachment 531448A+ > S: I am aware that the S tier is overblown but Zappy does so much in one slot. Arguably one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into. Even harder if it runs U-Turn over Volt Switch. Its able to put off so much pressure and momentum while also being a strong defensive presence in the meta. Fending off the tier’s fighting types such as Valiant, Tusk, and Sneasler. Unless you are running Ting-Lu who just gets chipped down by constant spikes and Hurricanes, Treads, or Sandy Shocks, this thing is generating momentum and making progress. Switching into Glowking on a Volt Switch only for it to invite in a dangerous Gambit or Hisui-Samu. Fits on so many teams and fills a bunch of roles in on slot. If not S tier than S- is fine.

View attachment 531450A- > A: Cinder fares or should I say “hares” very well with the offensive and hazard heavy meta of SV. Its not just Court Change that warrants this nom, it is also the raw power that it provides. Snatching momentum from Tusk and other checks with U-Turn, Sucker Punching Ghosts, and threatening Enamorus and Ghold with strong Pyro Balls. Simultaneously being great vs offense and even defense. I believe the VR should better reflect its capabilities in this hostile environment.

View attachment 531453A- > A: This thing was controversial for a month since its debut and now it has settled down, but this thing is still a menace. The set I am nomming it for is Sub-Roar Wake. Being able to exploit Garg while also phazing in a meta so generous towards hazard stacking. There is also Specs Draco which trucks Water resists like Amoonguss, Pex, and Washtom. Clod has seen a decrease in usage with the popularity of Balloon Ghold and Bax along with the general competition from the other specially defensive ground-type spike setter Ting-Lu. Volcanion is forced to Tera and doesn’t live a Draco after chip while Azu takes a huge chunk from Specs. Offensive teams also generally don’t like switching into Wake, especially if it gets a speed boost from its Booster Energy sets or Agility. WW is dangerous to deal with without one of 2-3 specific counters.

View attachment 531455B+ > A-: Ghold existing sucks and so does Zapdos existing, but I believe using Corv for hazard removal isn’t the way to go as long as Ghold is around. Instead it excels as a slow pivot that checks those pesky fairies and baits in Ghold for 5 of its teammates to exploit. ID and BU sets are nice against the physically-oriented sweepers like Gambit, Bax, BU Tusk, Dnite, and more. Corv loves it when Ghold comes in, cause it means it can invite in monsters like Gambit, H-Samu, or Hoopa-U to break holes and force progress. P.S: Use Mirror Armor, its better for Mystical Fire from Enam/Hatt.

View attachment 531458B+ > A-: Like Zapdos, it generates momentum while being a pain to switch into. Sub-Tera Steel NP ruins bulkier teams that rely on Amoonguss and G-King to beat it while also keeping the defensive utility it is famous for. It isn’t the most durable wall nor the strongest breaker, but its the perfect blend of offensive/defensive utility that has made Washtom an OU staple since Gen 4.

View attachment 531456B > B+: Another pesky Volt Switching Electric Type. It is one of the few safe switch ins to Zapdos while being hard to switch into itself. Spikes, EP, and strong Volt Switches make it a strong progress maker, as well as a lead. Booster Energy sets have shown to be solid leads that invert pressure against offensive teams. It does need to burn Tera most of the time, but eliminating a big threat, keeping hazards up, or generally being a pain to switch into is worth it despite the opportunity cost. Honestly just being a Zapdos switch in warrants this nom alone.

View attachment 531457B > B+: While far from its glory days of SS OU, Torn-T is still a beast. Tera and Regenerator gives it so much flexibility, whatever to check/lure an important threat, or make it a stronger offensive threat. The speed tier is perfect for the current threats, more specifically Sneasler who can hax through the biggest bird (Zapdos) with Dire Claw. Torn cuts the BS and just murders it. Its bulk, Regen, and offensive movepool is good enough to trade hits to chip or KO certain targets in a pinch. It has also seen a few solid appearances in SPL, one set in particular that caught my interest is RH Torn, a staple item from its days in USUM OU. the most underrated Tera abuser.

View attachment 531459C+ > B-: imo Molt’s best competitive gen since ADV despite this being the most hazard focused metagame. There is a reason it has been popping off from its occasional appearances in WCOP and ladder. It just checks so many things. Ice Spinner Tusk, CM Enamorus, Valiant, non-SE Zama, Ghold, Gambit, etc. Without Volc, the only Flame Body users rn are Tran and ofc Molt. It does require heavy support and thus doesn’t fit on many teams, which is why I’m not nomming it higher, but Molt has proved in the last few days that whatever team it fits on, Molt is gonna do work.

View attachment 531460C > C+: Who would’ve guessed that an HO meta would be in Ditto’s favor. Stall has been seeing a bit of usage despite how hostile the meta is for it, and that is because of Ditto.

Weirdhamster’s team for reference
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rank-1-ditto-hazard-stack-stall-peaked-2160-1.3723705/

Ditto still does Ditto things. It scouts sets, stalls against fatter teams, and reverse sweeps HO teams. Despite recent meta developments, the meta remains aggressive as ever due to how volatile Terastilization is.

Drop

View attachment 531462A- > B+: Ursa is good but overrated. It is not as splashable as the other A tier mons, only really seeing use on screens, TR, (and that one Quick Claw team). Ursaluna is also limited by the constant chip damage from hazards and Flame Orb. ID Corv blanks non-Fire Punch sets hard and the top offensive threats threaten to OHKO it outside of screens despite its fantastic bulk. Cocaine Bear was overrated to me when it was hyped up in the early Home meta and remains overrated to me.

I agree with all of these actually but in particular in regards to Torn-T I`d like to highlight a set that really glued my team together and proved itself in 2000+ elo. I mostly just see NP sets running around on the rare occassion you see a Torn-T on the ladder but the thing is also still a great pivot for balance teams. While the loss of knock off was tragic Ive been running bulky Torn-T variant with max speed, max hp, boots and bleakwind, heat wave, taunt and u-turn. Its deceptively hard to switch into considering it has no satk investment as Taunt completly disables two of its premier would be checks in Clodsire and Ting-Lu and is nigh impossible to oneshot bar super effective hits. Just to give some examples of what attacks you can stomach from full hp:

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 289-342 (79.8 - 94.4%)

+2 252 Atk Iron Valiant Spirit Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 295-348 (81.4 - 96.1%)

252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 262-309 (72.3 - 85.3%)

+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 294-346 (81.2 - 95.5%)

+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 265-313 (73.2 - 86.4%)

+3 0 Def Zamazenta Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 146-172 (40.3 - 47.5%)

Now you cant oneshot most of these back so you cant rely entirely on Torn to handle them but its a great all around check to finish off nearly everything that tries to sweep you in this set up heavy meta and is great at accruing chip damage in general. The prevalence of Zapdos is a thorn in its side but double heat wave does over half its hp and volt switch doesnt kill you so its not horrible but I ran it with a Ting-Lu and was glad for it. Speaking of TL the spike heavy meta favors Torn in general as it forces switches, pivots and is immune to them itself so I think its warranted to push it up a subtier given the edge it has over its far more one dimensional competiton in the B-tier.

 

[kingmickey27]

Landorass-T is the most overrated shit I've seen this generation. Its no longer a Pokemon that checks half the tier like before. Maybe if Garchomp and Landorus-T were more powerful, and threats like Excadrill or Zeraora existed, then it would be a different story, but that isn't the case. That alone should already drop a few points off its score.

Secondly, think about the stuff that Landorus-T is supposed to or can switch into. Looking at the tier, that'd be: Cinderace, Dragonite, Garchomp, Garganacl, Great Tusk, other Landorus-T, Iron Treads (lol), physical Valiant, Kingambit, Roaring Moon, Sandy Shocks, Sneasler and Ursaluna.

All of these mons are either not super important (Garchomp, Lando-T, Treads), can smack it with a neutral hit (which shows what little good its typing is defensively rn), or can break through it once its chipped down enough (which isn't that hard to do since Landorus-T has always had this issue of getting worn down easily throughout a game).

In the case of Great Tusk, in which Landorus-T is supposed to "check," Tusk can either Knock Off its Leftovers or Rocky Helmet to effectively ruin it, or get itself killed with Ice Spinner. Such a fantastic Great Tusk answer, clearly.

If I ask the question: what does Landorus-T do? The answer would be its a pivot that can maybe slow something down 1-2 times and can also set up Stealth Rock. Doesn't sound at all like what an A-rank mon should be.

Landorass-T is fine in A- That's a rank that's more than generous, given the sorry state its in

 

[Finchinator]

If I ask the question: what does Landorus-T do? The answer would be its a pivot that can maybe slow something down 1-2 times and can also set up Stealth Rock. Doesn't sound at all like what an A-rank mon should be.

I’d argue Substitute / EQ / Grass Knot / Stone Edge or Smack Down is its best set, with the primary focus being on breaking rather than walling and pivoting. Obviously there’s some case for utility, but it is limited as you say. However, it still has a ton of offensive tools and definitely a very distinct niche. A- is fine for now, but any lower feels incorrect.

 

[Moyashi]

View attachment 531662

I overall agree with most of the official viability rankings, but here are some things I disagree with:

-Clodsire from C+ to B+

Although it is true that this metagame is both more offensive and made up mostly of physical attackers, Clodsire still thrives on Stall and certain Fat teams, being able to shut down Zapdos, most Enamorus sets and Choice Specs Dragapult. Although Iron Valiant does run Physical sets more often now, these still lack the coverage to hit Specially Defensive Clodsire for a 2hko. Clodsire is also better than Ting-Lu at handling Gholdengo.

-Sneasler from A to B

Sneasler is stupidly overrated. It would thrive more in a slow bulky meta where it had many chances to activate Dire Claw/Poison Touch, rather than the offensive meta in which we currently play. It has hard counters such as physicaly defensive Gholdengo / Dondozo and is too frail to sweep with the unburden set vs teams that have any forms of priority users. Speed and Stealth Rock resistance is very good, but let´s not forget that having both of your STABs resisted by poison types, is terrible, making it tera reliant to break through Slowking/Amoonguss etc.

-Heatran from A- to B-

Heatran is a very powerfull wallbreaker when it doesn´t miss magma and the opponent doesnt have a Dragonite. Unfortunately, it has to rely on tera too often to break through things like Ting-Lu and even Dondozo safely, ruining it´s already incredible dual typing. Whenever Heatran got Terastallized in Wcop, there were big consequences, due to it´s inability to no longer handle pokemon like Slowking or Zapdos. It also naturally matches up badly vs most top mons in the tier: Great Tusk, Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, Enamorus, Samurott-H, etc.

-Armarouge from D to C+

First of all, Armarouge is almost objectively better than Polteageist. Due to Endure, it isn´t as weak to Samurott-Hisui, as it doesn´t have to rely on sash as much, and we have seen it sweep a few teams in Wcop, having good synergy with the new Battle Bond Greninja.

Psyspam obviously took a hit with the introduction of Samurott-Hisui, but the match-up is still very much playable. Most teams withouth Ting-Lu or Samurott-Hisui also fold extremely fast to Armarouge, as teams who rely on Slowking-Galar + Kingambit to absorb special hits get easily swept by Armarouge.

Okay there is... Some things.

Clod is viable, but as was mentioned prior is pretty limited and also gets punished by a lot of pokemon for its passivity. A lot of the stuff it used to do isn't really relevant at the moment with the bans of urshifu and volcarona. It isn't terribly easy to justify atm.

Sneasler thrives in an offensive metagame. And its best sets are sweeping sets, which make it very threatening if it gets going. It sometimes has to burn tera to get past some stuff but that isn't terribly annoying when the upside is enormous.

Heatran still provides crucial checks to the likes of Gholdengo and Dragapult, and is capable of trapping and removing a ton of obnoxious fat shit still, the scope of what it traps increasing with tera.

A lot of the other things here are very bizarre too. Knocking Garg, Zap and Ting-Lu to A when they are very good, important pokemon in the tier makes zero sense. Baxcalibur down to B+ is a joke and so is skeledirge in C+. None of that makes any sense.

 

[Hematemesis]

Samurott-Hisui to A+

I think the move Ceaseless Edge contributes such a significant benefit to a team that Samurott-Hisui deserves a spot in A+ among the cream of the crop. In the short amount of time this pokemon has been in the metagame, 3 distinct Samurott sets have emerged. All 3 of these sets provide considerable strenghts for a team.

https://pokepast.es/05ff3fa60fb684ec

The lead set is ostensibly strong, as it guarantees either a layer of spikes or considerable damage against a number of opposing leads. However, in my opinion, this set is likely the weakest of the 3 Samurott sets. This is the crux of my argument: Choice Scarf Samurott accomplishes much of the same things in practice that Lead Samurott accomplishes in theory.

Samurott-Hisui's choice scarf set achieves a speed tier of 442, which allows it to outpace a fair amount of significant metagame threats that a non-scarf set would otherwise underspeed. Here is an easy to visualize list of pokemon in S or A ranks that a choice scarf can outspeed, with any relevant damage calcs as well:

Samurott-Hisui Stats

Choice Scarf Gholdengo 439
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 290-344 (92 - 109.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Dragapult 421
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 354-416 (93.1 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Zamazenta-Hero 412
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 128-152 (39.3 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Zama will generally beat this set, especially idef)

+1 Offensive DD Dragonite 388
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 135-159 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Water Samurott-Hisui: 264-312 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sneasler 372
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Sneasler: 324-382 (104.1 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Will not outspeed if unburden is triggered)

Roaring Moon 370
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 342-404 (97.4 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Cinderace 370
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 408-482 (135.5 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Iron Valiant 364
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 175-207 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Booster energy speed will triumph over this set)

Walking Wake 348
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 151-178 (44.1 - 52%) -- 13.7% chance to 2HKO (Walking Wake will generally win this 1v1)

Enamorus 342
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 288-340 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Zapdos 328 (usually, I've only seen 301)
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 218-258 (56.7 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Samurott-Hisui should only be used to revenge kill Zapdos, never to try to 1v1. Also, good luck avoiding static!

Baxcalibur 300
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur: 278-328 (74.9 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Baxcalibur usually wins this 1v1, but it's notable nonetheless)

Great Tusk 300
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 340-404 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Sharpness Tera Water Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 256-304 (58.9 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Don't count on Samurott-Hisui to be your only Great Tusk answer. It outspeeds after a rapid spin, and tera water is the only way to avoid a death from CC.

Personally, I see this pokemon evolving into a Kartana-esque role. While SD and CB Kartana were tremendous threats in SMOU, Scarf Kart was incredible splashable, and a super good way to patch holes on your team. I see Samurott-Hisui in a similar position. The way I see it, this choice scarf set is one of the most splashable sets in the entire meta. Cast aside Ceaseless Edge's utility for a moment: with tera water, this pokemon serves as a surprise revenger for a myriad of the strongest pokemon in the game (Enamorus, Dragapult, Scarf Gholdengo, etc). Additionally, it tends to fare well versus Kingambit regardless of what set it's running ( +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott-Hisui: 280-330 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO is a crazy calc). However, the biggest boon to this pokemon is the move ceaseless edge. Except for the 10% of times where you miss, ceaseless edge sets up spikes whenver it is used. This rewards proper positioning extremely well. For example, a scarf Samurott-Hisui has the opportunity to surprise a Dragapult with ceaseless edge, which can KO it instantly. However, that's wishful thinking. A smart player will likely scout for the choice scarf or even switch anyway if they lack the ability to get the KO, and switch in one of the many answers (Great Tusk, Zapdos, Dragonite, Kingambit, etc). However, Ceaseless Edge is so brilliant because it gives the user a layer of spikes in addition to the damage. In pokemon, it's among the closest we have ever gotten to being able to "hedge our bets." We either pick up the KO on Dragapult, or we set up a spike for the opponent to have to deal with later (and in the first case, we get both). It's a win-win!

Naturally, part of Samurott-Hisui's ability to shine is because it has other good sets as well. In addition to the 3 listed sets on the smogon dex, this pokemon has access to swords dance. The black glasses all out attacking set functions well as a Samurott-Kingambit hybrid. Naturally, this pokemon is a great fit for certain HO teams as well due to the sash lead set (although we have other excellent HO setters like Glimmora and Grimmsnarl). I can even envision bulky taunt sets to thwart opposing Clodsire, Skeledirge, Garganacl (to an extent), and Ting-Lu being potent (though perhaps the other Samurott sets do well into these pokemon as well). In addition to the incredible strength of the choice scarf set, Samurott-Hisui has many other options it can employ.

I look to the pokemon surrounding it in the A tier. Amoonguss is an outlier in this tier for sure, but the potency of spore with tera makes its ability to support offense with defense really strong. However, the other 3 pokemon in A tier are the ones I'd like to highglight. Dragonite, Sneasler, and Zamazenta are among the most threatening pokemon in the entire meta, but there is a reason they're all in A instead of S or A+. It's due to their limited versatility. Sneasler will always be able to threaten sweeps with SD unburden, it will always be able to cheese games with dire claw secondary effects, and it will always be able to instill fear into opponents in the builder. However, it will rarely provide defensive utility, it doesn't really have a lot of set versatility, and the pokemon that counter it tend to counter every set. Samurott is different. While the highs of Samurott are not nearly the highs of the A tier sweepers, I think the gap is shorter than some may think. Additionally, Samurott has all of these pokemon beat in terms of versatility, utility, and splashability.

Based on this argument, I think Samurott-Hisui to A+ is a fair move. All teams now need to be prepared for a pokemon that's still being developed and was only released recently. Ceaseless Edge provides nearly unparalleled utility (shoutout to my boy Kleavor in C rank), choice scarf provides incredible blanket checking, and Samurott's stock will only continue to rise with each passing day. Thanks for reading, a thousand Ls to the classiest!

 

[Magcargo]

-Clodsire from C+ to B+

Although it is true that this metagame is both more offensive and made up mostly of physical attackers, Clodsire still thrives on Stall and certain Fat teams, being able to shut down Zapdos, most Enamorus sets and Choice Specs Dragapult. Although Iron Valiant does run Physical sets more often now, these still lack the coverage to hit Specially Defensive Clodsire for a 2hko. Clodsire is also better than Ting-Lu at handling Gholdengo.

Psyshock Gholdengo (which is a thing I've run and seen here & there) kinda completely shimown's Clodsire, and it can fit that in pretty easily on sets like Scarf. It does do better vs Air Balloon NP than Ting-Lu because of Unaware though, and all things considered, Psyshock is extremely rare tech that only the most galaxy-brained ladder players steal use.

Aside from that, I agree that Heatran's Tera reliance to beat its most common switch-ins can be somewhat of an issue, esp since its a Pokemon you don't wanna Tera in most cases since becoming weak to U-Turn is really really bad. I don't think its enough to warrant a drop all the way to B- though since not every team runs its biggest counters.

 

[pika pal]

Sneasler thrives in an offensive metagame. And its best sets are sweeping sets, which make it very threatening if it gets going. It sometimes has to burn tera to get past some stuff but that isn't terribly annoying when the upside is enormous.

I read that as Enamorus and now feel the need to look into a core with these two ("No Toxicity Pls" given what their STABs dislike)

 

[Brainfreezer]

In my humble opinion I think Dondozo is a very good wall especially paired with Skeledirge they wall a lot together. And it should receive more usage.

 

[EnesBatur]

Sorry for asking, but why is Toxapex in A+? I feel like it really struggles with competition with Slowking-G, which is generally stronger and has a better set of moves that allow it to pivot and be more flexible, alongside Slowking-G stealing a lot of momentum away from it. I don't doubt that it's viable since the typing gives it different resistances that may be more valuable for some teams, I'm just wondering which threats make it good enough to break A-.

 

[kingmickey27]

Sorry for asking, but why is Toxapex in A+? I feel like it really struggles with competition with Slowking-G, which is generally stronger and has a better set of moves that allow it to pivot and be more flexible, alongside Slowking-G stealing a lot of momentum away from it. I don't doubt that it's viable since the typing gives it different resistances that may be more valuable for some teams, I'm just wondering which threats make it good enough to break A-.

Checking Valiant is probably a big one, considering how brutal it is rn (I imagine not having the Knock Off weakness makes it a tad more consistent against all variants). It can also stop Sneasler and Zamazenta (and prolly other set up mons like Azumarill or Cresselia w/ Stored Power) due to its access to Haze. Volcanion has also been a nasty threat to contend with that's difficult to switch into, so having a mon that resists both its STABS can go a long way too. A combination of all those traits is enough to distinguish it from Slowking-G.

 

[Finchinator]

Sorry for asking, but why is Toxapex in A+?

It’s A-

I don't doubt that it's viable since the typing gives it different resistances that may be more valuable for some teams, I'm just wondering which threats make it good enough to break A-.

A lot of people still use it. Toxic is huge, Infestation makes up some of the opposing Regenerator recovery, it checks many variants of Iron Valiant, Dragapult, Zamazenta-H, Rain, etc.

It’s definitely viable and we were mostly between A- and A.

 

[EnesBatur]

It’s A-

My bad, mistyped A-.

 

[Sheerluck Holmes]

In my humble opinion I think Dondozo is a very good wall especially paired with Skeledirge they wall a lot together. And it should receive more usage.

Dozo is undoubtedly a great physical blanket check, and Skeledirge is a great unaware wall. Problem is that Dozo has an absence of reliable recovery that leaves it crippled by chip damage and repeated strong attacks, and it has no way to pressure the opponent outside of Curse sets.

 

[tigers jaw]

-> s.
i was a proud Enamorus Hater when it dropped, but i was deeply wrong.

a multitude of sets including scarf, specs, life orb, sub cm, taunt cm, mixed taunt (trust me taunt is really good on it!!!). on top of that, neat utility options, & a serviceable amount of defensive utility for such a powerful threat thanks to its disgusting typing & good matchups vs staples like tusk, the dog, & resisting gambit’s sucker. also one of the best abusers of tera in my opinion, both for offensive means with ground/fire/fairy, or defensively with steel. v v v good mon that is terrifying & a cut above the rest of a+.

there should be a general reworking of s & a+ imo. maybe s for gambit & tusk, s- created for pult, val, enamorus & maybe zapdos. idk just spitballing but something feels a bit off.