Water/Fire/Grass Pledge

[Deoxymoron]

Fire Pledge-

80 BP|100 Acc.
Water Pledge-

80 BP|100 Acc.
Grass Pledge-

80 BP|100 Acc.

Fire Pledge + Water Pledge: "Will create a rainbow which doubles the chances of moves having Secondary Effects for four turns."
Water Pledge + Grass Pledge: "Will create a marsh which reduces the speed of all opponents by 50% for four turns."
Grass Pledge + Fire Pledge: "Will damage the opponents by 1/8th of their total Hit Points for four turns. If the opponents are of the Fire-Type, they don't receive damage."

These moves have existed since Gen 5, but they had 50 BP back then, making them totally unusable. However, with the boost in power, I think they could be quite interesting. They still probably won't be amazing, but with the right support they can pull off a few neat tricks. One thing to note is that only the starters are given Pledge moves, meaning that each has a couple of good users but no more than that.

Here are some seemingly decent users.

Burn, Baby (Charizard) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP (EVs can be adjusted for more bulk)
Modest Nature
- Fire Pledge
- Air Slash/Heat Wave
- Roost
- Protect/Tailwind

Given the plethora of physical Fire-Fighting starters, and Delphox and Typhlosion both being somewhat meh, Mega Charizard Y is probably the only real viable Fire Pledge user. Drought takes it even further, allowing it to have decent strength in sun. With the nerf to Flamethrower as well, this really isn't that large of a step down. Mandatory Roost for survivability, Air Slash and Heat Wave for coverage/spread, and Protect and Tailwind because they're useful.

Splash (Greninja) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Water Pledge
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Mat Block/Rock Slide/U-Turn

Greninja is probably the best user of Water Pledge, with offensive presence through Protean and utility in the form of Spikes. The drop in power from Hydro Pump is a pretty big one, but it's got the same Base Power as Dark Pulse, which all Greninjas run, and it doesn't have to worry about shaky accuracy. Ice Beam provides great coverage, Mat Block is great in doubles, Rock Slide gets 60% flinch chance with the rainbow effect and U-Turn is good for momentum.

Blastoise gets a mention for being pretty good as well, but his rapid spinning niche isn't as useful in doubles.

Plant (Venusaur) @ Life Orb/Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
Modest Nature
- Grass Pledge
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth/Hidden Power Fire/Synthesis
There aren't a lot of competitively viable grass-types. However, with the right support, Venusaur can be worth the trouble. If you're running aforementioned Mega Charizard, then the Life Orb set is quite good. Chlorophyll in sun makes Venusaur blazingly fast, and the given EVs ensure that it outspeeds Choice Scarf Genesect in sun. Without Charizard, the Mega set is better, as the superior bulk and SpA definitely pay off. Grass Pledge is actually stronger than Giga Drain, and although the lack of recovery is annoying, it definitely pulls its weight as well as other sets.



So there you have it. Do you think there's a future for these moves? Are there any good users I missed? I think that Mega Charizard + Venusaur could be very interesting, especially with the 1/8 chip damage each turn. And how about the destructive force of Skymin? This could be quite the interesting generation for him.

P.S. Pledge stops looking like a real word really fast

 

[tofucocoa]

the only pledge worth using is rainbow pledge really, and iirc it's screwed up by protect. also the inclusion of spikes on greninja and no mention of rock slide or mat block anywhere (60% flinch spread move under rainbow)... yeah.

 

[Deoxymoron]

the only pledge worth using is rainbow pledge really, and iirc it's screwed up by protect. also the inclusion of spikes on greninja and no mention of rock slide or mat block anywhere (60% flinch spread move under rainbow)... yeah.

Yeah, the spikes mention was stupid. replaced it with Mat Block and Rock Slide. Anything else you'd like to add? Reasoning behind your opinion?

 

[LordRandomness]

I'm reasonably sure Serene Grace doesn't stack with the rainbow (Bulbapedia says it doesn't, at least). Nevertheless, there are some really nasty things you can pull off with Serene Grace for everything (Sacred Fire becomes a massive pain in the ass although I believe only Entei will get it and be allowed to use it, IF Entei even gets it, Poison Fang becomes Toxic with damage tacked on, etc etc). I feel like the speed reducing option is underestimated, it could be a viable alternative to Tailwind/Trick Room/Icy Wind/whatever with some actual damage attached.

EDIT: Not to mention crap like Discharge/Lava Plume which now come with a 60% effect rate on both opponents. Lava Plume is particularly devastating as I believe it's available on at least one Fire-type starter (yeah just checked, Typhlosion even gets it by level-up) and mass burns are usually harder to inflict (as well as letting you centralize around SpD)

 

[Darkflagrance]

They are viable, but a single Fake Out at the wrong time means not only that the faked out mon does nothing, but its pledging partner apparently does nothing either. On wifi I fought a Delphox-Greninja attempt to pledge me where the above happened. If this is indeed what happens and I wasn't misremembering, that's a serious strike against the viability of pledge moves.

 

[sarysa]

Assuming there's no Fake Out to ruin this, you could do something crazy and stick the Eject Button on one of your speedier Fire/Water mons.

It's mildly risky, but it'd allow you to switch to that Shaymin/Togekiss and troll the enemy as you stated, only sooner and with less risk. :)

(you might want to find Togekiss' slow counterpart if you see an obvious Trick Room forming)

 

[Deoxymoron]

Yeah, turns out Serene Grace doesn't stack with pledge moves. Still, I think the other strategies have merit. Testing out a team with aforementioned pokemon + Entei/Togekiss/Mamoswine and we'll see how it goes.

EDIT: As far as I can tell, the pledge moves work like Flying Press, but they don't factor in resistances. That means that anything weak to either one of the types gets wrekt.

EDIT2: I've gone 5-1 with the team, and that may say something about the ladder, but I think it attests to this strategy's flexibility and viability. It's still not amazing, but it shouldn't be immediately dismissed.

 

[Pocket]

Just saw a fun match of Grass + Fire pledge in action!

replay

According to this match, it seems like both players do not have to use the pledge move - at turn 9, Venusaur used Sleep Powder, but Charizard was still able to Fire Pledge. Maybe Fire Pledge would have failed if the sun faded and Charizard move before Venusaur? I say this, because when Venusaur (in the sun) uses Grass Pledge, it waits for Charizard to use Fire Pledge before they both attack.

Does the slower pledge user also move right after the faster pledge user? It seems that way, because otherwise I cannot explain how Charizard's Fire Pledge activated before Garchomp and Mega Manectric were able to make a move.

2 more questions:

1) Is it necessary for these pledge moves to hit the same target? In this game, they always double-targeted one mon, so I am uncertain if they can hit separate mons.
2) According to bulbapedia, "Grass Pledge inflicts regular damage, with double damage and an additional effect when combined with Fire Pledge or Water Pledge in Double or Triple Battles." Does this mean Grass Pledge's power doubles to 160 BP when combined with Fire Pledge??

Anyways, it's an intriguing tactic.

 

[Deoxymoron]

Just saw a fun match of Grass + Fire pledge in action!

replay

According to this match, it seems like both players do not have to use the pledge move - at turn 9, Venusaur used Sleep Powder, but Charizard was still able to Fire Pledge. Maybe Fire Pledge would have failed if the sun faded and Charizard move before Venusaur? I say this, because when Venusaur (in the sun) uses Grass Pledge, it waits for Charizard to use Fire Pledge before they both attack.

Does the slower pledge user also move right after the faster pledge user? It seems that way, because otherwise I cannot explain how Charizard's Fire Pledge activated before Garchomp and Mega Manectric were able to make a move.

2 more questions:

1) Is it necessary for these pledge moves to hit the same target? In this game, they always double-targeted one mon, so I am uncertain if they can hit separate mons.
2) According to bulbapedia, "Grass Pledge inflicts regular damage, with double damage and an additional effect when combined with Fire Pledge or Water Pledge in Double or Triple Battles." Does this mean Grass Pledge's power doubles to 160 BP when combined with Fire Pledge??

Anyways, it's an intriguing tactic.

1. The way the pledges work is they can be used individually, but their combined effect only works if both are used. So on turn 9, had they not used Grass Pledge + Fire Pledge two turns earlier, the opponent would not have taken chip damage.

2. As far as I can tell, whichever mon the faster pledge user targets becomes the target of both attacks, regardless of the second user's target. And yes, the slower pledge user moves immediately after the faster pledge user.

3. What it means is the two moves combine into one, 160 BP move. So essentially, it's still 80 BP per attack, but it's treated as one attack.

 

[BlankZero]

That replay actually showed how viable it can be, which is surprising. I do like how you get a 160bp nuke, and with ChloroSaur, you're basically going to kill something every turn.

 

[Yuri]

Grass+Fire Pledge is kind of blah but the other two are nice. Fire+Water should find its way into certain teams while Water+Grass is all around useful.

One question though: it is said that when used in tandem, both moves will target whoever the faster used targeted. What if I target different Pokemon and one of them uses Protect? In this case, is there any difference if the slower or faster Pledge is Protected against?

 

[youngjake93]

Do the pledge moves use just the first attacker's special attack in calculations or both? And yea 160 BP grass/fire attack that is SE on water, steel, grass, rock, ground, bug and ice while only being resisted by Dragon and Fire is ridiculous. Combine that with the fact that you can use Mega Charizard Y's sAtt and I'm not even sure what it wouldn't KO, but I am still a little unsure of the mechanics.
I'm going to try some pledge sets tomorrow. Might as well since some of the starters are already threats that synergize well and some mons like Weavile have managed with worse than JUST an 80 BP STAB without the other bonuses factored in.

 

[BlankZero]

I could see CharY+ChloroSaur teams do very well against the pre1800 ladder, but against the 1900+ ladder I feel it's going to be a gimmick at best, but one that actually has a little utility.

Still not convinced entirely that it's viable though.

 

[Allosteric]

How does weather affect the power of pledge moves? For example, if it's raining and you use Water Pledge followed by Fire Pledge, is the move's power halved, not affected, or increased by 50%? How about if you used Fire Pledge first followed by Water Pledge in the rain instead?

 

[youngjake93]

How does weather affect the power of pledge moves? For example, if it's raining and you use Water Pledge followed by Fire Pledge, is the move's power halved, not affected, or increased by 50%? How about if you used Fire Pledge first followed by Water Pledge in the rain instead?

Idk if it is accurate but on PS , sun boosted anything with fire pledge involved. Also, the damage is only calculated off of the second pokemon to move and if that happens to be modest charizard Y in sun, then you can ohko literally everything(tested on 252/252+ Cresselia and it ignores stat boosts). You can have jolly sceptile/serp/greninja as the first pokemon and it makes no difference in power.

Also, Charizard overkilled that Cress bc I tested the next closest thing in power(specs delphox, which was veryyy far off in power) and it did 97%

Edit: inb4 the ladder becomes Charizard+Greninja/Sceptile pledge spam after posting this

 

[Pocket]

whoa...so does this mean Grass + Fire Pledge has a total base power of 240 in the sun (plus STAB)?! I figured sun would only boost Fire Pledge's move by 50% for a 200 base power move (80 + 120).

So a special STAB Explosion (which supposedly ignores defensive boosts and resistances) coming off of Charizard Y's SpA... no wonder it never fails to kill x_x

 

[youngjake93]

whoa...so does this mean Grass + Fire Pledge has a total base power of 240 in the sun (plus STAB)?! I figured sun would only boost Fire Pledge's move by 50% for a 200 base power move (80 + 120).

So a special STAB Explosion coming off of Charizard Y's SpA... no wonder it never fails to kill x_x

That also comes off of chlorosaur's speed(you don't have to invest in speed nor does chlorosaur have to invest in sAtt, free bulk), ignores def boosts, has fire-grass coverage and 1/8th residual dmg/turn as bonus.
It gets gimmicky and unreliable if you go the free bulk EVs route because you are force to single target pledge every turn or sleep powder+protect, but it does ohko like everything. I will test it on Chansey/Blissey soon lol

 

[BlankZero]

That kind of sounds like it should work like that. Maybe Zarel needs to take a look at it? Because you'd think it wouldn't get THAT much of a boost...

 

[bearcanine]

That also comes off of chlorosaur's speed(you don't have to invest in speed nor does chlorosaur have to invest in sAtt, free bulk), ignores def boosts, has fire-grass coverage and 1/8th residual dmg/turn as bonus.
It gets gimmicky and unreliable if you go the free bulk EVs route because you are force to single target pledge every turn or sleep powder+protect, but it does ohko like everything. I will test it on Chansey/Blissey soon lol

It doesn't have dual type coverage, at least not on PS. Rewatch Pocket's replay. Turn 7.

The opposing Charizard used Fire Pledge!
The opposing Charizard is waiting for the opposing Venusaur's move...
The opposing Venusaur used Grass Pledge!
The two moves are joined! It's a combined move!
It's not very effective... Aegislash lost 73.7% of its health!

"It's not very effective" implies Aegislash was hit with the Grass typing.

 

[BlankZero]

It doesn't have dual type coverage, at least not on PS. Rewatch Pocket's replay. Turn 7.

The opposing Charizard used Fire Pledge!
The opposing Charizard is waiting for the opposing Venusaur's move...
The opposing Venusaur used Grass Pledge!
The two moves are joined! It's a combined move!
It's not very effective... Aegislash lost 73.7% of its health!

"It's not very effective" implies Aegislash was hit with the Grass typing.

Tested and confirmed this recently. Charizard and Treecko with Treecko going first. Aimed at Gastrodon. Not very effective, and only did 74% in Sunlight.

 

[bearcanine]

Soo after extensive testing at the Battle Maison triple battles, I've concluded that:

Fire Pledge + Grass Pledge = Fire type
Fire Pledge + Water Pledge = Water type
Water Pledge + Grass Pledge = Grass type

It makes no difference who attacks first (Scarf/higher raw speed stat = no difference). This makes me wonder how the damage is calculated.

Edit: PS replay contradicts this, so I would assume it's an error on their part.

 

[Deoxymoron]

Soo after extensive testing at the Battle Maison triple battles, I've concluded that:

Fire Pledge + Grass Pledge = Fire type
Fire Pledge + Water Pledge = Water type
Water Pledge + Grass Pledge = Grass type

It makes no difference who attacks first (Scarf/higher raw speed stat = no difference). This makes me wonder how the damage is calculated.

Edit: PS replay contradicts this, so I would assume it's an error on their part.

Congrats, you can get a leaderboard point if you report your findings ;) I'll edit the OP.

 

[Pocket]

New info from Marty D

Combining Pledge moves never doubled their damage. In Gen 5 they combined to 150 Base Power, which is triple their Base Power of 50 at the time, but in Gen 6 they still combine to 150 Base Power despite being 80 Base Power normally.

So the pledge combo's power dropped slightly, which is worth noting imo. The combo essentially hits as hard as Eruption / Water Spout.

Err what Blank said.

 

[BlankZero]

New info from Marty D
So the pledge combo's power dropped slightly, which is worth noting imo. The combo essentially hits as hard as Eruption / Water Spout.

Except Single Target and not affected by HP, but takes both mons on one side to do it.

Seems like an ok trade off

 

[skies]

How does this work with Destiny Bond? Like, they'll both use it, will both faint, or which one will?