XY NU Theorymon Discussion

[HispanicPanic]

So we've discussed Sawsbuck and Shiftry I believe which will probably be two of the better offensive Grass-types in NU, but I noticed that Leafeon also did benefit from a few things with this new gen.

While it didn't get any direct buffs this gen, what Leafeon did gain was a buffed Knock Off and now slightly more appreciated speed with Jynx and Scolipede out of the tier(although they may make a return once official 6th gen NU starts). Shiftry gets STAB on both Seed Bomb and Knock Off as well as priority in Sucker Punch and utility in Defog, so there seems little reason in using Leafeon over it. However, Leafeon has a considerably higher base Atk (110) and reaches a much better speed tier (95). Leaf Blade and Knock Off have decent coverage together and combine with Yawn and Swords Dance, Leafeon might actually be able to create set up opportunities for itself. Yawn either forces something out or puts something to sleep so you can then retaliate with Knock Off or set up with Swords Dance. 65/130 defensive bulk isn't exactly bad, so Leafeon can probably take a neutral physical hit to use Yawn and set up. For the most part, there aren't many reasons to use Leafeon over Shiftry or even Sawsbuck, but it may have a little more of a niche this gen.

Also, is it possible for Leafeon to learn Play Rough? I remember someone mentioned it, possibly in this thread, but I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere else.

 

[Aragorn the King]

So we've discussed Sawsbuck and Shiftry I believe which will probably be two of the better offensive Grass-types in NU, but I noticed that Leafeon also did benefit from a few things with this new gen.

While it didn't get any direct buffs this gen, what Leafeon did gain was a buffed Knock Off and now slightly more appreciated speed with Jynx and Scolipede out of the tier(although they may make a return once official 6th gen NU starts). Shiftry gets STAB on both Seed Bomb and Knock Off as well as priority in Sucker Punch and utility in Defog, so there seems little reason in using Leafeon over it. However, Leafeon has a considerably higher base Atk (110) and reaches a much better speed tier (95). Leaf Blade and Knock Off have decent coverage together and combine with Yawn and Swords Dance, Leafeon might actually be able to create set up opportunities for itself. Yawn either forces something out or puts something to sleep so you can then retaliate with Knock Off or set up with Swords Dance. 65/130 defensive bulk isn't exactly bad, so Leafeon can probably take a neutral physical hit to use Yawn and set up. For the most part, there aren't many reasons to use Leafeon over Shiftry or even Sawsbuck, but it may have a little more of a niche this gen.

Also, is it possible for Leafeon to learn Play Rough? I remember someone mentioned it, possibly in this thread, but I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere else.

Leafeon does not get Play Rough :(

Also, there's no way Scolipede will ever come back, as it's been banned from UU, and likely will end up in OU soon. Jynx, on the other hand, could easily come back.

 

[HispanicPanic]

Leafeon does not get Knock off :(

Also, there's no way Scolipede will ever come back, as it's been banned from UU, and likely will end up in OU soon. Jynx, on the other hand, could easily come back.

Yeah, I completely forgot about Scolipede improving this gen, so my apologies. However, Leafeon does indeed get Knock Off from the 4th gen move tutors.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Yeah, I completely forgot about Scolipede improving this gen, so my apologies. However, Leafeon does indeed get Knock Off from the 4th gen move tutors.

Oops, I totally meant to say Play Rough, not Knock Off.

Play Rough: X
Knock Off: √

 

[Brawlfest]

I think it is about time we start discussing mons with Knock Off that would actually enjoy running it without wasting a moveslot for something much more important. Knock Off is a really good move now, immediately reaping an opponent's item, which in NU can be fatal considering the amount of Eviolite mons we have, yet providing very strong 97.5 / 65 base power coverage move. So the following are 5 mons I believe will appreciate Knock Off the most in the NU tier.

Zangoose

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Quick Attack
- Knock Off
- Close Combat

This my friends is the Zangoose of the future. One simple change to it's moveset makes it that much more reliable, with a 97.5 move, it can even guarantee a OHKO on Golurk if adamant. What makes this set even better is the fact that Zangoose forces insane amounts of switches, meaning that there is no need to predict, simply clicking Knock Off to either kill frailer opponents or cripple an opponent for the rest of the match.

Sawk

Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge

Sawk's utility with Knock Off is so obvious it isn't even funny. This Buff really just makes Sawk a complete monster, leaving even Musharna and Misdreavus shaky checks at best, allowing Sawk to blitz through the NU tier even more than it did this generation. Dealing Upwards of 82.3% to Musharna (And 2HKO'ing it at worst on the switch in), while removing it's leftovers will probably force Sawk out of tier. This insane damage is incomprehensible, as even such defensive behemoths as Misdreavus or Tangela now need to fear switching into the once check-able sawk.

Eelektross

Eelektross @ Assault Vest / Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk -or- 140 Atk / 244 SpA / 124 Spe
Rash Nature
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Superpower / Knock Off
- Flamethrower

Bummer already talked to an extent about the new AV Tross, but Knock Off could make it even better, smashing anything that wants to switch into it with a crippling move. This of course may not be superior to the ever coveted Superpower, offering Eel a way to beat Audino, Lickilicky, and Probopass, all of whom are common checks, but Knock Off definitely is food for thought.

Samurott

Samurott @ Life Orb / Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd -or- 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 HP
Modest Nature / Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Knock Off

This Samurott set will be an absolute monster in the NU tier. On bulky offense, which our tier will start with as this is where Gen5 leaves off wiht the leave of Scolipede and Jynx, this Samurott set will ravage the tier. Whether it be carrying wallbreaking power via Life Orb or impressive bulk (Actually avoids 2hko from many Ludicolo) with Assault Vest, this variant of Samurott will check a variety of threats in the NU tier, breaking down offensive teams with sheer power, while wearing down defensive teams and crippling them with the removal of Items. Megahorn's utility in the future will probably find its way only onto Physical sets, as Knock Off can deal as well if not better with not only the threats Megahorn checks, but a variety of walls Samurott has no other way to break down.

Gurdurr

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up / Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Ahh good old gurdurr. I honestly have no need to say more. It's obvious how well Knock Off fits, there isn't explanation needed.

 

[Blast]

Honestly I don't think Knock Off is really all that great on Eel and Samurott. The former in particular becomes much less effective at wallbreaking if it tries to squeeze in room for Knock Off--it either has to give up Volt Switch, which makes it unable to serve as a pivot, or Superpower, which makes it unable to lure out special walls and KO them. The only real merit it would have is luring out the occasional Dragonair, which is pretty rare to begin with and especially with Fairies around I don't think Dragonair alone is worth it. For Samurott, I would much prefer using Taunt over Knock Off as it provides a much more reliable way to break down walls since they can't recover off anymore. Might be okay on Assault Vest sets but those are already unable to break down walls because of the loss of power.

Also Shiftry is gonna be a pretty effective Knock Off user, especially since it's one of the few things that actually get STAB on it. I posted about it a bit here a while ago, it's basically the mixed set from last generation just with Knock Off and Low Kick over Dark Pulse and Nature Power. Shiftry in general is probably gonna get considerably better this gen (despite the Nature Power nerf), since its STAB combination is now much harder to wall and with Knock Off removing Eviolite and Leftovers it can be pretty meddlesome to a lot defensive cores.

Also Sawk and Zangoose are gonna be so broken lol

 

[Brawlfest]

Honestly I don't think Knock Off is really all that great on Eel and Samurott. The former in particular becomes much less effective at wallbreaking if it tries to squeeze in room for Knock Off--it either has to give up Volt Switch, which makes it unable to serve as a pivot, or Superpower, which makes it unable to lure out special walls and KO them. The only real merit it would have is luring out the occasional Dragonair, which is pretty rare to begin with and especially with Fairies around I don't think Dragonair alone is worth it. For Samurott, I would much prefer using Taunt over Knock Off as it provides a much more reliable way to break down walls since they can't recover off anymore. Might be okay on Assault Vest sets but those are already unable to break down walls because of the loss of power.

Also Shiftry is gonna be a pretty effective Knock Off user, especially since it's one of the few things that actually get STAB on it. I posted about it a bit here a while ago, it's basically the mixed set from last generation just with Knock Off and Low Kick over Dark Pulse and Nature Power. Shiftry in general is probably gonna get considerably better this gen (despite the Nature Power nerf), since its STAB combination is now much harder to wall and with Knock Off removing Eviolite and Leftovers it can be pretty meddlesome to a lot defensive cores.

Also Sawk and Zangoose are gonna be so broken lol

Yeah Eel I can see why it would be bad as a Knock Off user isuxatideasrryblast:[....Tbh I think Knock Off AV Rott will be effective only because it has a different kind of utility it offers for bulky offense rather than a taunt user.

Lol Shiftry will be broken as shit..It can just use Brick Break, Low Kick, Low Sweep, or Focus Blast to get past its lack of Nature Power. I imagine a set like:

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 244 SAtk / 88 Atk / 176 Spd
Rash Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break / Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse / Knock Off

 

[Franklyna]

I am very excited to experiment with an Assault Vest Protean Kecleon on a Trick Room team, using Aromatisse as a TR setter.

The one issue with Kecleon, though, is that very few of his attacks exceed 70 or 80 BP, excluding Aqua Tail and Iron Tail. He gets STAB on everything, but...I dunno.

 

[Aasgier]

Also Sawk and Zangoose are gonna be so broken lol

They will have zero counters, but they are sitting at 85/90 Base Speed respectively, and NU has plenty of threats that outspeed them.

I'm worried about NU's adequacy at banning broken things though, as we spent months with Jynx and Scolipede in the tier (which obviously had no business in NU).

 

[Talpr0ne]

I am very excited to experiment with an Assault Vest Protean Kecleon on a Trick Room team, using Aromatisse as a TR setter.

The one issue with Kecleon, though, is that very few of his attacks exceed 70 or 80 BP, excluding Aqua Tail and Iron Tail. He gets STAB on everything, but...I dunno.

Keep in mind that Protean Keckleon is illegal with Gen 5 moves. The only physical moves legal with him are Return(having Protean only for still being forced to use Normal moves as STAB is pretty lame), Sucker Punch, Rock Slide and Shadow Sneak.

 

[sickweare]

What do you all think about the introduction of Emboar (re), and Typhlosion into the NU tier? It is highly possible to end up that way this generation.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I personally think Cinccino and Klinklang have a better chance at returning to the tier. There's also Quagsire but that I think will be RU again this gen.

I was also thinking of base Medicham coming to the tier, since it hasn't been NU since DPP, and Mega Medicham is BL currently.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I think the Pokemon most likely to return to NU would be Mesprit and Rhydon, since they're both victims of the tier trickle-down effect, as Pokemon like Meloetta, Azelf, and Rhyperior will most likely be part of RU this gen, which would virtually erase Rhydon and Mesprit from usage there since the newcomers outclass them in every way. If Zygarde and Kyurem stay in RU at all Druddigon might fall to NU though I'm rather doubtful about that. I really don't think Cinccino will end up in NU because its Speed and Skill Link are just too amazing of a niche to be NU. As for other RU drops, I'm sure Electivire and Dusknoir will end up in NU this gen since both have been horrible since DPP and they still suck as much as ever. Sandslash is in the same boat, this gen I think Sandslash will finally return to its proper tier.

Although yeah I'm sure Quagsire will stay RU judging purely by its viability in UU right now, also being able to put up a fight with Zygarde is cool since Fairies are kinda absent from the potential RU beta.

 

[Franklyna]

Keep in mind that Protean Keckleon is illegal with Gen 5 moves. The only physical moves legal with him are Return(having Protean only for still being forced to use Normal moves as STAB is pretty lame), Sucker Punch, Rock Slide and Shadow Sneak.

Ah! That's right, I keep forgetting about that. He also gets Brick Break, Fake Out, and Foul Play, too. Dark/Fighting/Ghost/Normal coverage is pretty decent for NU standards, and I think it hits most of the current tier for at least neutral damage.

 

[Brawlfest]

One pokemon I'm really hoping we get back is Magneton!

With Fairies becoming a reality very soon, steels will probably become a new standard in NU. To be completely honest, our tier lacks any offensive steel types bar the sub-par Mawile and Klang. However, if Magneton drops back, we will have an absolute powerhouse in our hands. Easily eliminating opposing steel types and fairies, it can quickly open holes for quick frail teammates such as Swellow or Fraxure to sweep through. It's amazing typing, offensive presence, and solid bulk makes it a threat that can fill many unique roles, and I feel that this versatile and simply good pokemon will be a healthy addition to our current metagame!​

Example Sets:
Magnet Pull: Magneton's most standard and common set, it balances offensive presence perfectly with bulk, setting up subs against common resistances and quickly removing checks and counters to its own allies. A very reliable stall-breaker as well, being able to resist a large majority of any wall's attacks, and being immune to toxic aids it as well. Thunderbolt provides a reliable STAB, while Substitute is the crux of the set, allowing you to set up a barrier before eliminating a trapped victim. Volt Switch, Charge Beam, Toxic and Flash Cannon act as utility filler, dependent on how you play your magneton, and the HP's are to beat the steels being trapped.
Magneton @ Eviolite
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 156 HP / 252 SAtk / 100 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch / Charge Beam / Flash Cannon / Toxic
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]

Choice: While it is quite uncommon to find NFE's running choice locked sets, Magneton makes for an extremely good choice item user, whether it be a revenge killer or wall-breaker. It sits at a respectable base 70 speed, allowing it to just barely revenge kill common threats. It's wall-breaking set also packs a major punch, with Magneton carrying one of the highest special attack stats NU has period. As in the earlier set, Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon are mandatory STABs to hit hard with. Volt Switch is great for revenge killing as well as gaining momentum for your team. Hidden Power Ground continues to be used to maintain Steel-Killing utility and support for a meta vying for such help.
Magneton @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]

​

 

[Aragorn the King]

One pokemon I'm really hoping we get back is Magneton!

With Fairies becoming a reality very soon, steels will probably become a new standard in NU. To be completely honest, our tier lacks any offensive steel types bar the sub-par Mawile=​

Well... mawile definitely will not be NU anytime soon. So it's really just Klang.

 

[Brawlfest]

Well... mawile definitely will not be NU anytime soon. So it's really just Klang.

Eh mawilite will be banned and we'll get the biter back lol.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Eh mawilite will be banned and we'll get the biter back lol.

I don't think so. It seems to be perfectly balanced in OU right now. If NU's getting any mon back it'll be Pinsir. But I don't think he's that broken.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I want to bring up Politoed and Ninetales. With Drought and Drizzle banned in UU, it pretty much means that Politoed and Ninetales need the OU usage to stay up. Politoed might stay OU but as of now it isn't very likely, while Ninetales is utter garbage in OU now with Zard Y. Both of them have mediocre stats by current XY UU standards (and most probably RU) and they were both NU in DPP. So, there's a good chance they both will end up in NU in XY.

What are your thoughts on these guys? Some interesting perks include:

Politoed:
- good bulk (to give you an idea: bulkier than SDef Ludicolo, albeit with a lesser typing)
- water absorb
- utility moves such as Encore and Perish Song

Ninetales:
- Flash Fire
- 100 base speed, which is enough to outspeed a large amount of the metagame
- decent special bulk and will-o-wisp + roar
- nasty plot

in my opinion Ninetales is gonna be mediocre in NU because of the existence of Simisear and Pyroar, while most special defensive roles are probably outclassed by Flareon. If anything, its niche will probably be a bulky Fire-type Nasty Plot user that can use its bulk to set up against weaker opposition and still be fast enough to outrun several unboosted opponents, although that's unlikely to allow it to see much of the limelight.

Meanwhile Politoed is interesting because it has quite a lot of unique support options but faces intense competition with Alomomola and Ludicolo (offensive sets are out of the question because Samurott and Simipour). The only thing that politoed will fare better in is probably its support options in encore, scald, psong. However, politoed gets no reliable recovery and can't fit onto stall teams as well as mola (omg those intense wishes) and can't fit balanced teams as well as Ludicolo due to the latter's ability to wall most rain teams without needing Water Absorb. And on most other teams, Politoed doesn't really fit because they generally don't need these support options or have better Pokemon to use them. I guess Encore + Belly Drum sounds cool but Politoed doesn't have the speed to pull it off either and is still outrun by common scarfers like Rotom-S.

tl;dr: Ninetales and Politoed are probably gonna fall into obscurity. What do you guys think?

Regarding the above mons: I agree that Dusknoir, Vire and Mesprit will likely fall back to NU. Dusknoir will probably get only slight usage as well because, well, the other ghosts all have better utility / power than it. Electivire is going to be really good in NU with its power, speed and coverage by NU standards and ditto for Mesprit with its versatility (in fact it was amazing in NU back when it was in NU if I'm not wrong)

I'm less certain about Magneton and Klinklang but it'll sure be exciting to have them in the tier. We'll finally get two offensive Steel-types, the former being a great trapper and attacker in general while the latter setting up on stall and busting offensive teams after a few boosts.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I want to bring up Politoed and Ninetales. With Drought and Drizzle banned in UU, it pretty much means that Politoed and Ninetales need the OU usage to stay up. Politoed might stay OU but as of now it isn't very likely, while Ninetales is utter garbage in OU now with Zard Y. Both of them have mediocre stats by current XY UU standards (and most probably RU) and they were both NU in DPP. So, there's a good chance they both will end up in NU in XY.

What are your thoughts on these guys? Some interesting perks include:

Politoed:
- good bulk (to give you an idea: bulkier than SDef Ludicolo, albeit with a lesser typing)
- water absorb
- utility moves such as Encore and Perish Song

Ninetales:
- Flash Fire
- 100 base speed, which is enough to outspeed a large amount of the metagame
- decent special bulk and will-o-wisp + roar
- nasty plot

in my opinion Ninetales is gonna be mediocre in NU because of the existence of Simisear and Pyroar, while most special defensive roles are probably outclassed by Flareon. If anything, its niche will probably be a bulky Fire-type Nasty Plot user that can use its bulk to set up against weaker opposition and still be fast enough to outrun several unboosted opponents, although that's unlikely to allow it to see much of the limelight.

Meanwhile Politoed is interesting because it has quite a lot of unique support options but faces intense competition with Alomomola and Ludicolo (offensive sets are out of the question because Samurott and Simipour). The only thing that politoed will fare better in is probably its support options in encore, scald, psong. However, politoed gets no reliable recovery and can't fit onto stall teams as well as mola (omg those intense wishes) and can't fit balanced teams as well as Ludicolo due to the latter's ability to wall most rain teams without needing Water Absorb. And on most other teams, Politoed doesn't really fit because they generally don't need these support options or have better Pokemon to use them. I guess Encore + Belly Drum sounds cool but Politoed doesn't have the speed to pull it off either and is still outrun by common scarfers like Rotom-S.

tl;dr: Ninetales and Politoed are probably gonna fall into obscurity. What do you guys think?

Regarding the above mons: I agree that Dusknoir, Vire and Mesprit will likely fall back to NU. Dusknoir will probably get only slight usage as well because, well, the other ghosts all have better utility / power than it. Electivire is going to be really good in NU with its power, speed and coverage by NU standards and ditto for Mesprit with its versatility (in fact it was amazing in NU back when it was in NU if I'm not wrong)

I'm less certain about Magneton and Klinklang but it'll sure be exciting to have them in the tier. We'll finally get two offensive Steel-types, the former being a great trapper and attacker in general while the latter setting up on stall and busting offensive teams after a few boosts.

They'll probably see similar effects as Stoutland and Beartic last gen: Much better in upper tiers, but don't have enough following in that tier to let them stay.
However, one thing to keep in mind is that Drizzle/Drought may not be broken in RU like they were in UU. If that's the case, I think they'd certainly fit in.
If they do both end up NU, I agree they'll have their niches, but without their weather abilities they won't be great.
Also, a point to keep in mind, Drizzle/Drought may not even be broken in NU. There's not Kingdras or Kabutopses in NU.

 

[Pancham]

Well, this may have already been said, but one thing I can see being different than last gen is Sawk being allowed. Due to Knock Off's HUGE buff, Sawk has 0 counters, not even Mismagius or Golurk can counter it even more. While some people might be saddened about this, I am actually pretty happy, if I'm being honest. Sawk was a huge threat all NU last gen, and it didn't bring much originality to the table with it. If you lacked a Sawk check on any team, you probably didn't get very far on the ladder.

Another thing is that we will never, ever have to worry about Scolipede dropping down from higher tiers again. Scolipedeis banned from UU, and I don't see that fact changing anytime soon.

I am hoping Jynx will be easier to deal with, however. I am mostly biased against this bitch, though, as I ran Rain Dance throughout my entire time play Gen5 NU.Rain Dance was huge in that many things that could have countered some of the pokes being used, Articuno, Lickilicky, Audino, Musharna, are now getting 2HKO'd by LO Hydro Pump in the rain. Another thing is that it fucks with speed tiers thanks to Swift Swim. So, Jynx dropping down from BL3 with Scolipede was a major nerf, at the time, to Rain Dance, and a huge slap in the face.

TL;DR: GTFO Scolipede, Sawk and Jynx

Now that I got the OP shit out of the way, let's discuss Togetic.

Base stats: 55 HP / 40 Atk / 85 Def / 80 SpA / 105 SpD / 40 Spe
(After Eviolite, its bulk becomes 312/312/508.5) [using 248/8/252 EVs]

It has access to Roost, gained Fairy typing, giving it a 4x resist to Fighting, however 2 new 2X weaknesses in Steel and Poison, usable special attack even without investment, an incredible support movepool, and many other things going for it. However, let's not forget what makes Togetic so threatening: Serene Grace. Thanks to Togetuc's major buff, Togetic can more easily flinch shit to death, which Togekiss is infamous for, and be a major terror we've never seen before (legitimately).

EDIT: However, UU is still discussing the potential ban of Knock Off from the tier, so we may never have to deal with Knock Off users. (What is banned in higher tiers, is banned in lower tiers. Remember Smash Passing being banned from RU, and thus banned from NU as well?) scorpdestroyer Yah, I can see how that would be true. However, thanks to Jynx's drop, I ran Metang on my NU RD team, and before that I used Skuntank, so Gardevoir was never really a problem for me.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

If a ban is implemented in a higher tier, the lower tiers are also affected. This happened last generation when UU banned Gothitelle but NU or RU didn't; Gothitelle was automatically banned here.

Honestly I think Gardevoir is a bigger threat to rain teams than Jynx was because the latter was, at most, a shaky check as she is 2HKOed by every rain mon's coverage move and has to rely on hitting Lovely Kiss to beat most of them, and nothing's stopping them from switching to something else to take the kiss without much risk. Meanwhile Gardevoir can Trace Swift Swim and outrun all rain Pokemon except Floatzel and Swanna which are not as common anyway, with powerful moves like Psychic, Thunderbolt, and Destiny Bond. But I digressed there. I think there's a legitimate chance that Jynx could get back into NU next gen due to the sleep nerf, although I certainly hope not because the current meta is so much more fun than previous ones.

 

[NotBruceWayne]

Can't wait for the tier to shape up. UU is almost there though lol. A few more tiers to go! Anyway, Mega Banette was discussed a few posts ago so yeah.

I think that Mega Banette should be running Gunk Shot over Shadow Claw so it can smack them Fairies hard. Magneton, Metang and the gear thingy (Klingklang was it) are the only viable Steel types right now iirc with Mawile probably moving up. Gunk Shot also got that accuracy boost which Muk will also love (btw those AV sets are looking pretty interesting). But, the only thing that keeps Mega Banette interesting is Destiny Bond. If not for Destiny Bond, it would just be another Prankster.

Magneton @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Won't HP Grass and Analytic be better? I've been running Specs Magnezone in UU and it has been an absolute boss. Hitting hard with Analytic + Specs + STAB Volt Switch and gaining switch advantage at the same time. HP Grass is debatable as it only really hits Seismitoad.

What about Altaria? She gets Moonblast now, allowing her to hit Fighting, Dark and her fellow Dragons hard without fearing the -2 SAtk drop from Draco Meteor. I wish I could say that the new sleep mechanics help her but Natural Cure removes anyways sooo. Here's my take on a special attacking set

Altaria

Altaria @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Roost / Rest
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Moonblast

 

[Brawlfest]

Can't wait for the tier to shape up. UU is almost there though lol. A few more tiers to go! Anyway, Mega Banette was discussed a few posts ago so yeah.

I think that Mega Banette should be running Gunk Shot over Shadow Claw so it can smack them Fairies hard. Magneton, Metang and the gear thingy (Klingklang was it) are the only viable Steel types right now iirc with Mawile probably moving up. Gunk Shot also got that accuracy boost which Muk will also love (btw those AV sets are looking pretty interesting). But, the only thing that keeps Mega Banette interesting is Destiny Bond. If not for Destiny Bond, it would just be another Prankster.


Won't HP Grass and Analytic be better? I've been running Specs Magnezone in UU and it has been an absolute boss. Hitting hard with Analytic + Specs + STAB Volt Switch and gaining switch advantage at the same time. HP Grass is debatable as it only really hits Seismitoad.

What about Altaria? She gets Moonblast now, allowing her to hit Fighting, Dark and her fellow Dragons hard without fearing the -2 SAtk drop from Draco Meteor. I wish I could say that the new sleep mechanics help her but Natural Cure removes anyways sooo. Here's my take on a special attacking set

Altaria

Altaria @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Roost / Rest
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Moonblast

HP Grass is definitely and option (So is HP Ice)! That being said, at the end of the day you really want to have that unique support that Magneton often can deliver to teams to eliminate steel types, and it lacks the capability to efficiently do such efficiently without HP Grass. Honestly specs Altaria has always been a bomb, but with Draco less spammable I'm not sure how I feel.

Well, this may have already been said, but one thing I can see being different than last gen is Sawk being allowed. Due to Knock Off's HUGE buff, Sawk has 0 counters, not even Mismagius or Golurk can counter it even more. While some people might be saddened about this, I am actually pretty happy, if I'm being honest. Sawk was a huge threat all NU last gen, and it didn't bring much originality to the table with it. If you lacked a Sawk check on any team, you probably didn't get very far on the ladder.

Another thing is that we will never, ever have to worry about Scolipede dropping down from higher tiers again. Scolipedeis banned from UU, and I don't see that fact changing anytime soon.

I am hoping Jynx will be easier to deal with, however. I am mostly biased against this bitch, though, as I ran Rain Dance throughout my entire time play Gen5 NU.Rain Dance was huge in that many things that could have countered some of the pokes being used, Articuno, Lickilicky, Audino, Musharna, are now getting 2HKO'd by LO Hydro Pump in the rain. Another thing is that it fucks with speed tiers thanks to Swift Swim. So, Jynx dropping down from BL3 with Scolipede was a major nerf, at the time, to Rain Dance, and a huge slap in the face.

TL;DR: GTFO Scolipede, Sawk and Jynx

Now that I got the OP shit out of the way, let's discuss Togetic.

Base stats: 55 HP / 40 Atk / 85 Def / 80 SpA / 105 SpD / 40 Spe
(After Eviolite, its bulk becomes 312/312/508.5) [using 248/8/252 EVs]

It has access to Roost, gained Fairy typing, giving it a 4x resist to Fighting, however 2 new 2X weaknesses in Steel and Poison, usable special attack even without investment, an incredible support movepool, and many other things going for it. However, let's not forget what makes Togetic so threatening: Serene Grace. Thanks to Togetuc's major buff, Togetic can more easily flinch shit to death, which Togekiss is infamous for, and be a major terror we've never seen before (legitimately).

EDIT: However, UU is still discussing the potential ban of Knock Off from the tier, so we may never have to deal with Knock Off users. (What is banned in higher tiers, is banned in lower tiers. Remember Smash Passing being banned from RU, and thus banned from NU as well?) scorpdestroyer Yah, I can see how that would be true. However, thanks to Jynx's drop, I ran Metang on my NU RD team, and before that I used Skuntank, so Gardevoir was never really a problem for me.

Lol it isn't flinching anything to death (40 Speed). Regardless, Togetic can be an interesting ParaFlinching special wall I guess, especially with Heal Bell, Roost, Encore, and Newfound Good Typing. That being said, I feel that Stealth Rock still proves to be a major hinderence, but This could be interesting.

I want to bring up Politoed and Ninetales. With Drought and Drizzle banned in UU, it pretty much means that Politoed and Ninetales need the OU usage to stay up. Politoed might stay OU but as of now it isn't very likely, while Ninetales is utter garbage in OU now with Zard Y. Both of them have mediocre stats by current XY UU standards (and most probably RU) and they were both NU in DPP. So, there's a good chance they both will end up in NU in XY.

What are your thoughts on these guys? Some interesting perks include:

Politoed:
- good bulk (to give you an idea: bulkier than SDef Ludicolo, albeit with a lesser typing)
- water absorb
- utility moves such as Encore and Perish Song

Ninetales:
- Flash Fire
- 100 base speed, which is enough to outspeed a large amount of the metagame
- decent special bulk and will-o-wisp + roar
- nasty plot

in my opinion Ninetales is gonna be mediocre in NU because of the existence of Simisear and Pyroar, while most special defensive roles are probably outclassed by Flareon. If anything, its niche will probably be a bulky Fire-type Nasty Plot user that can use its bulk to set up against weaker opposition and still be fast enough to outrun several unboosted opponents, although that's unlikely to allow it to see much of the limelight.

Meanwhile Politoed is interesting because it has quite a lot of unique support options but faces intense competition with Alomomola and Ludicolo (offensive sets are out of the question because Samurott and Simipour). The only thing that politoed will fare better in is probably its support options in encore, scald, psong. However, politoed gets no reliable recovery and can't fit onto stall teams as well as mola (omg those intense wishes) and can't fit balanced teams as well as Ludicolo due to the latter's ability to wall most rain teams without needing Water Absorb. And on most other teams, Politoed doesn't really fit because they generally don't need these support options or have better Pokemon to use them. I guess Encore + Belly Drum sounds cool but Politoed doesn't have the speed to pull it off either and is still outrun by common scarfers like Rotom-S.

tl;dr: Ninetales and Politoed are probably gonna fall into obscurity. What do you guys think?

Regarding the above mons: I agree that Dusknoir, Vire and Mesprit will likely fall back to NU. Dusknoir will probably get only slight usage as well because, well, the other ghosts all have better utility / power than it. Electivire is going to be really good in NU with its power, speed and coverage by NU standards and ditto for Mesprit with its versatility (in fact it was amazing in NU back when it was in NU if I'm not wrong)

I'm less certain about Magneton and Klinklang but it'll sure be exciting to have them in the tier. We'll finally get two offensive Steel-types, the former being a great trapper and attacker in general while the latter setting up on stall and busting offensive teams after a few boosts.

Politoed will be a bomb, ninetales is miserable at best.

 

[NotBruceWayne]

HP Grass is definitely and option (So is HP Ice)! That being said, at the end of the day you really want to have that unique support that Magneton often can deliver to teams to eliminate steel types, and it lacks the capability to efficiently do such efficiently without HP Grass. Honestly specs Altaria has always been a bomb, but with Draco less spammable I'm not sure how I feel.

I agree with both Magneton and Altaria. Specs Altaria will probably become one of the better wallbreakers this gen. And regarding Magneton, maybe HP Ground would be better suited when running Magnet Pull and HP Grass if otherwise. It will also rise in usage, probably as it can trap and remove Steels and hit Fairies hard paving the way for Dragons to do their thing (DragMag was what they called it).

How do you guys think Musharna will fare. All I've seen is that how big the Knock Off buff affected her and it probably has affected her a lot but she can still wall pretty well. She just needs a little more prediction switching into things like Sawk now. She'll could potentially face competition from Aromatisse could fulfill a similar role as a cleric, pivot or maybe more wall-ish. Anyway, here's a replay of how good Musharna can be this gen (I was using this team in Gen 5 NU but took it for a spin in Gen 6 UU so lol)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uubeta-94669428