So I have a question, are you running Swords Dance and U-turn on the same set? Cause then your set would look like SD, Uturn, Facade, Sucker Punch. That really is not a great set tbh, I would never run U-turn on a set with Swords Dance on it. And if you are only running one on the set than once again your sets are completely outclassed by other facade gut users. Also the Pokemon you mentioned might possibly get cleared out, as atm the viability rankings have quite a few Pokemon that shouldnt even be ranked. This will possibly be addressed in a future update to the rankings, I also want to say that since Armaldo is NU by usage that it automatically gets a rank regardless of how outclassed it is.What sets itself apart from Swellow is it's ability to set up with Swords Dance and the thing that avoids it becoming entirely outclassed by over Quick Feet Ursaring is U-Turn. Raticate has a slight niche over each of the main facade users (Zangoose, Ursaring, Swellow). The only set that gets completely eclipsed and there is literally no reason to use is its banded hustle set, which has nothing at all to set itself apart from Zweilous. And to be fair punch, quite a few mons D-Rank are pokemon that are eclisped by Pokemon higher in the viabilty rankings (e.g. Armaldo and Kabutops, Huntail and Gorebyss, Butterfree and Vivillon) so that argument is pretty illogical unless you are advocating all of them get taken off the viability rankings.
Even if D+ is a little lenient, this Pokemon does deserve a spot on the viability rankings.
Swords Dance + U-turn isn't bad (Scyther @3@), but in the context of Raticate, whose dwindling health makes boosting + hit-and-running an unappealing prospect, means I'd rather use Swellow, which has a faster & stronger immediate U-turn, or Ursaring, which can use the Swords Dance boost to actually pummel the foe due to its superior coverage. Raticate cannot touch Rocks, Steels, and Ghosts that won't attack it; Ursaring handles all of them, and Quick Feet Jolly Ursaring even outspeeds Mismagius.Montsegur Hi just popping in to say that Swords Dance + U-turn isn't //that// bad because it can smack around a counter with more oomph and go to a respective check to the aforementioned counter, pretty neat actually.
Malamar from C ==> B
Typhlosion from A+ ==> S
Ninetales from B ==> B+
Raticate remains unlisted
Ferroseed from A+ ==> A
Poliwrath from B+ ==> B-
Feraligatr stays S
Xatu from A- ==> A+
Musharna from B ==> B+
Golem from B ==> C+
Zweilous from C ==> C+
More discussion is needed on Uxie ==> S as the council was pretty iffy on raising it to S and there was a firm no, so for now it is going to stay at A+
Lol, everyone is like omg Typhlosion loses Eruption cause of rocks. Well the thing is, is that Fire Blast + Blaze is actually stronger than Eruption which you briefly say at the end of your argument. Typhlosion has something powerful to use through out its life and has two "nukes" at the beginning and end of its life. Hariyama is a check as is Uxie, both of them do not have reliable recovery and can easily be overwhelmed. It isnt to hard to keep hazards off the field and that should not be an argument against raising Typhlosion. Another thing is that just because it has one set doesnt mean that, that set is any less deadly.Popping in to give my thoughts the typhlosion rise to S. On one end of the spectrum this thing is hard to switch into, can clean weakened teams and 2hkos, if not ohko's most of the meta... But, on the other end, it loses its biggest niche, the eruption nuke, when exposed to most hazards, priority (what with kang on the rise, feraligatr, sucker punch etc) and common counters like Hariyama and Ninetales can eat up most of its attacks (I would also like to point out that it cant 2hko max spdef hariyama with anything and can only 2hko ninetales with focus blast, granted it actually hits and you predict correctly). Without eruption, typhlosion in S rank isn't much to the likes of pyroar who is faster and has better niches in taunt and will-o-wisp, as well as unnerve which, while situational, definitely has it's perks. The thing I also noticed about any S rank pokemon is that they usually are able to run more than one set and have unpredictability. Typhlosion, as I see him, has neither of these. It runs only one highly predictable set with either scarf or specs that's pretty easily walled by several things. There was also the argument that typhlosion destroys unprepared teams, but this to me is a stupid argument. Who would not prepare for a threat like typhlosion? Almost anything good will dent unprepared teams. That said, because of it's predictability, it can be rather easy to counter, compared to things like mesprit and uxie which boast roughly 1000 sets to their name and thus can surprise KO many of the mons in the tier trying to counter them. Typhlosion also is checked by a lot of the top tier mons at the moment; namely Uxie with t-wave, archeops, feraligatr and assault vest hariyama, not to mention it loses it's eruption power to fake out + sucker punch kangaskhan and most forms of priority. Another very important point is that typhlosion can't really switch in to any sort of attack or something of that nature. If it does, it loses eruption power which is really detrimental and means you need to rely on the 85% accuracy fire blast, which while more powerful than eruption in blaze range, typhlosion still has no setup up, recovery or priority method to avoid being knocked out of blaze by a faster mon. Anyway, I'm going to cut this shorter by concluding that I don't by any means think a mon like pyroar deserves S rank any much more than typhlosion does, I simply think typhlosion should stay where it was at A+ as it requires more support than normal (to run consistently), has too few sets, no set up moves, priority or recover and is way too predictable to deserve S rank.
I'd also like to finish off by saying that I know i'm not the best, but it doesn't take an idiot to speculate pokemon and if you disagree with my points, do so calmly.
kthxbai.
>.>no Pyroar = Typhlosion
I agree with this ^Uxie then. Uxie can perform a good number of roles, and it is very good at all of them. Its combination of high bulk and good speed give it many options to work with, and allows it to make fantastic use of its support movepool. Uxie rivals Mesprit in terms of set versatility combined with effectiveness, and is also very flexible in that it can adapt to even the most drastic of meta shifts because any one of its sets can remain relevant. However, we'll have to look at Uxie objectively, to see if it faces competition from other Pokemon in the tier and risk being outperformed.
You forgot to mention Musharna which also has reliable recovery, is bulkier in defense, and can Baton Pass out to a teammate. As far as facing these two 1v1, Uxie loses out 100% of the time unless it crits them. I was going to say that the thing that Uxie has over the other two users is access to Substitute, but then I remembered that it is somewhat irrelevant as Xatu has Magic Bounce to prevent status and Musharna has access to Heal Bell. The nice thing about sub though is that it is sort of a preventative measure against crits.SubCM has always been a deadly strategy in the right hands, and Uxie's combination of huge bulk and good speed certainly makes it a great user of the set. It can set up on a large variety of defensive Pokemon, and proceed to become disgustingly hard to KO once it gets going; you know the drill. Uxie does competes with Xatu, another Calm Mind user that can waste defensive teams but boasts immunity to phazing, Heat Wave, and reliable recovery, which is especially relevant when facing weaker Knock Off users. Meanwhile, Uxie's Substitutes are not infinite, and it's pretty weak before it sets up. However, Uxie's huge bulk allows it to fare decently even against offensive teams despite the set's passiveness, especially when augmented by Calm Mind.
This is the one big point that I want to bring up, in any role that Uxie trys to fill defensively it lacks something really important...reliable recovery. It is susceptible to being worn down through out the match and has severe 4MSS. I feel like these points might be enough to hold Uxie back from S rank.Utility is where Uxie truly shines, and almost no other Pokemon in the tier can compare to how well Uxie pulls this off. It is one of the (surprisingly) few Stealth Rock users in the tier that isn't weak to Grass-type or Water-type moves, which gives Uxie a lot of safe lead matchups. Not only that, but it possess Yawn and U-turn. The combination of these moves allows Uxie to snag momentum so easily it is not even funny, and Uxie is more than bulky enough to pull it off; Uxie can even pull off a slow U-turn if it so chooses. It also prevents Uxie from becoming a sitting duck to nearly any kind of Pokemon, so its passiveness can rarely be taken advantage of. It faces mild competition with Mesprit, which boasts much better offensive presence and has Healing Wish, which is right up there in the 'clutch support move' category alongside bulky Yawn + U-turn. However, Mesprit has to time its Healing Wish right in order to make the most out of it since it is one-time use, while Uxie can support the team with its combo at any stage of the game, even when it would be risk being KOed before it gets to U-turn (after using Yawn), as that too would still nab Uxie's team momentum.
I knew I was missing something; this is exactly what I meant when I said that while Uxie performs its roles really well, the real issue is competition from other Pokemon that can try to replicate its sets. Yawn + Baton Pass Musharna would be pretty damn swell too, but in exchange for survivability it forgoes Stealth Rock.You forgot to mention Musharna which also has reliable recovery, is bulkier in defense, and can Baton Pass out to a teammate. As far as facing these two 1v1, Uxie loses out 100% of the time unless it crits them.
I also find Substitute useful for blocking attacks that can also status, namely Scald, Sludge Bomb, and Body Slam, which Xatu cannot prevent. On the other hand, Musharna's low speed means it is quite prone to status and damage (such as crits :/) before it can begin setting up, meaning it needs both Heal Bell and Moonlight on one set, which also means it can only afford mono-coverage on a boosting set. Uxie still isn't outclassed, but again, stiff competition.I was going to say that the thing that Uxie has over the other two users is access to Substitute, but then I remembered that it is somewhat irrelevant as Xatu has Magic Bounce to prevent status and Musharna has access to Heal Bell. The nice thing about sub though is that it is sort of a preventative measure against crits.
I never found myself wishing for Uxie to have reliable recovery (bar maybe SubCM), since Uxie either manages to complete its job(s) fine without it, or tends to be used as a suicide lead. If anything, access to recovery only compounds Uxie's 4MSS, since it must sacrifice a moveslot that would otherwise be used to support other teammates; I mean Uxie can stick around for longer and all but its support options become limited as a result, which can defeat the purpose of its extended longevity.This is the one big point that I want to bring up, in any role that Uxie tries to fill defensively it lacks something really important...reliable recovery. It is susceptible to being worn down through out the match and has severe 4MSS. I feel like these points might be enough to hold Uxie back from S rank.
Stealth Rock Uxie can even deal with the hazard removers with Yawn and proceed to simply set up SR again while they switch or sleep. All of the Uxies do their jobs really well.Just gonna say the Dual Screens / Weather sets do their job really really well.
kabutops: a -> a-
gurdurr: a- -> b+
sawk: a- -> b+
accelgor: b+ -> b
granbull: b+ -> b-
qwilfish: b+ -> b
vileplume: b+ -> b
electivire: b -> c+
primeape: b -> b-
simipour: b -> d+ hello why the fuck is this b LOL
swellow: b -> b-
torterra: b -> c+ omastar is gone.
barbaracle: b- -> c+
drifblim: b- -> c-
grumpig: b- -> c so many better bulky psychics just use yama with uxie
kadabra: b- -> c+
leavanny: b- -> c+
lickilicky: b- -> c+
linoone: b- -> c
rotom-frost: b- -> c
stuff to go up
exeggutor: b- -> a- why is this thing so low.
togetic: b- -> b use gleam/defog/roost/baton pass on balance.
garbodor: b+ -> a-
ludicolo: b+ -> a-
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama in Rain: 253-298 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO mmmmm. + only water resist that beats it easily is seed, and you can run focus blast to lure
prinplup: c- -> c+
These 3 especially:Im gonna dump some suggestions (Those aren't mines and I don't agree with all of them, I just want to spark some discussion )
Code:sawk: a- -> b+ vileplume: b+ -> b exeggutor: b- -> a- why is this thing so low.