CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 6a - Ability Discussion

[jynx KB]

I hadn't thought about it, but with the right moveset, Skill Link would finally provide an answer for a problem that hasn't truly been solved yet in Zapdos.

I'm also going to throw in a bizarre choice of secondary to help deal with Rotom forms in Scrappy. Now I know, Dark Typing should help take care of Rotom, but it would be a decent option in general for a Fighting type, and make some of the stronger STAB moves in Close Combat do some major damage.

However looking through the arguments, I honestly think that the bulk of our issues are solved with a combination of Trace/Motor Drive. Trace has several strategies to deal with major Togekiss annoyances, while Motor Drive helps with Electricity, and doesn't outskirt Paralysis entirely, which I think is important in keeping this CAP balanced

 

[RandomUserXD]

I agree with Fuzznip in that Trace would be the most suitable primary ability for CAP11, no need to restate his arguments.

I question ILoveLiza's suggestion that CAP11, a Fighting/Dark type pokemon would receive either Icicle Spear or Rock Blast, it seems like a very strange movepool choice even if Skill Link would be a good ability to counter SubRoost Zapdos. I therefore vote against Skill Link since it requires too many oddball movepool choices to be effective in countering Zapdos, the main argument for its use.

Motor Drive or Volt Absorb would make CAP11 Gyarados' perfect mate, not Togekiss' so I vote against them.

Assuming that Rising_Dusk's spread wins the poll, CAP11 has the potential (depending on movepool) to be a viable pokemon separate from Togekiss so I feel that the secondary ability should be dedicated to this purpose since Trace deals so well with the "being Togekiss' partner" aspect of CAP11.

I would therefore like to propose Limber as CAP11's secondary ability as it is both viable for supporting togekiss should a user believe that total paralysis immunity is better than the general utility of Trace and also in supporting CAP11 in its own right since based on typing and the most likely stat spread it could be an excellent pokemon on its own, much like each half of the famous combinations are viable in their own right.

CeleTran - Both viable
SkarmBliss - Both viable

It is important for CAP11 to be able to compete on its own and not just be relegated to the role of being solely a partner for Togekiss since not only does it leave CAP11 in a state of potential disuse but it would give vital information to the opponent if CAP11 was revealed earlier than Togekiss in a battle situation.

Votes
Primary: Trace
Secondary: Limber

 

[Naxte]

Right now, I'm in complete support of Volt Absorb. Volt Absorb is a great ability for CAP11, as it lets it come in on many of Togekiss's counters and other Pokemon that it has some problems with--Starmie, Zapdos, Rotom-A, Gengar, Electivire, and Jolteon. All of these Pokemon tend to go for Thunderbolt against Togekiss (well, Starmie may also use Ice Beam though, so I suppose that one's a toss-up, but still), which means with Volt Absorb, CAP11 would gain a free switch-in against them. This gives CAP11 great defensive synergy with Togekiss (especially with the number of Pokemon it helps CAP11 to switch in against), which goes a great deal in helping it to be Togekiss's perfect partner. In fact, as Rising_Dusk said, this is the type of thing that I really would consider to be vital in a perfect partnership, so it really does seem to be the route to go, to me.

Motor Drive gives the same synergy, so I wouldn't mind too much if it was chosen over Volt Absorb, but the speed boost does worry me a little, so Volt Absorb would probably be the safer route here.

As for Trace, it does cover some of the same Pokemon, but as has been brought up, it's totally useless against Pokemon like Zapdos, Rotom-A, Gengar, and Starmie, so Volt Absorb seems to be the better option to me.

Limber has also been brought up, but most of these Pokemon don't tend to use Thunder Wave on Togekiss, instead opting for trying to outright kill the thing with Thunderbolt. Blissey's really the only thing that might try to paralyze Togekiss (and even in Blissey's case, it's just as likely to try wearing down Togekiss with Toxic+Seismic Toss, as it is to paralyze it), so Limber's utility seems really limited to me, and Volt Absorb seems to be the better choice out of the two.

Lastly, one other ability that I've seen get some support is Thick Fat. While it's true that Togekiss does have an ice weakness and this would give CAP11 an ice resistance, which is good for defensive synergy, Togekiss tends to have more problems with Pokemon like Zapdos than it does the Bulky Waters that tend to carry moves like Ice Beam. And as of now, even CAP11 doesn't exactly like coming in on Zapdos's Thunderbolts that much. So, while Thick Fat isn't exactly a bad choice on CAP 11 and would be one I'd be willing to work with, Volt Absorb seems to do a better job of giving CAP 11 defensive synergy with Togekiss.

Now, for the question that keeps popping up: If we give it Volt Absorb, will it become Gyarados's Perfect Partner instead of Togekiss's? To start off with here, I'd really like to point something out: Togekiss's and Gyarados's weaknesses:

Togekiss:
Electric: 2x
Rock: 2x
Ice: 2x

Gyarados:
Electric: 4x
Rock: 2x

Let's also look at their defensive stats for a second:

Togekiss:
85 HP/95 Def/115 SpD

Gyarados:
95 HP/79 Def/100 SpD

What do we see here? Gyarados and Togekiss have two of the exact same weaknesses, with Togekiss having one weakness that Togekiss does not. In addition, both of them are more bulky on the Special side than they are on the Physical.

What does this tell us? Well, with all that being the case, it's only natural that the same attacks that give Togekiss trouble would give Gyarados trouble too. The only thing that really gives Togekiss some trouble that doesn't bother Gyarados that much are Ice attacks. As a result, we might be tempted to focus just on those, as that's something that Togekiss has that Gyardos doesn't.

However, the thing is, CAP11 is supposed to be Togekiss's perfect partner, and should be able to come in on what Togekiss has the most problems with. And as I mentioned in the Thick Fat section, Togekiss has a whole lot more trouble with Pokemon like Zapdos than it does Bulky Waters. In order to be successful, CAP11 has to be able to help Togekiss with Pokemon like that the most that it can.

But if we do that, what about Gyarados? Again, this thing has to help Togekiss with its weak spots. It just happens that Gyarados is week to the same attacks as Togekiss. However, we can't let fear of letting this thing become Gyarado's perfect partner drive this project off-course. This thing is intended to be Togekiss's perfect partner, and Togekiss has problems with the same attacks as Gyarados. Therefore, if we let fear of CAP11 being too much of a Gyarados partner drive this CAP, and don't let it come in on anything that bothers Gyarados, that means that CAP 11 also won't be able to come in on anything that bothers Togekiss. And if that's the case, this project will naturally fail, and if at all possible, we should of course avoid that happening. Thus, we just have to accept that the same type of attacks that bother Togekiss bother Gyarados and due to this fact, the same defensive synergy that's needed to make this project succeed also benefits Gyarados.

However, this leads to an interesting point: Togekiss and Gyarados ae bothered by the same attacks, but by different users of them, and have different counters. In other words, yes, it's true that neither Pokemon likes Thunderbolts and both would like a partner that lets them come in for free, but the two of them would like this partner to come in on different Pokemon. Gyarados is bothered most by Pokemon like Vaporeon and Suicune, which don't quite bother Togekiss as much. This is the key factor, which allows us to give CAP11 Volt Absorb, while not turning it into Gyarados's perfect partner instead: by focusing on the Pokemon that give Togekiss the most trouble, like Rotom-A and Zapdos, instead of ones like Suicune and Vaporeon, which are very troubling to Gyarados.

As an addition to this, there's already a Pokemon with such an ability that people have tried to partner with Gyarados: Electivire. In addition to having Motor Drive, Electivire is also an Electric-type. Yet even so, the GyaraVire combo has rather... mixed results, which is why it's not exactly the most common partnership seen, especially amongst more skilled players. This is because that while Electivire draws in the T-bolts & such that Gyarados hates and gets a nice speed boost of it, the partnership is really slanted towards Electivire's end, with it getting the bulk of the benefit. In addition, even with the speed boost, it still has to either use low base-power moves on the Physical side or otherwise use its hardly-terrible-but-not-exactly-anything-to-brag-about Special Attacking stat.

In any case though, the fact that the GyaraVire common isn't seen more due to factors such as the partnership really being too heavy towards Electivire seems to give credibility to the idea that as long as we focus on Togekiss's counters and not Gyarados's, things should turn out just fine. And since CAP11 is already Fighting/Dark, instead of pure something like pure Electric, like Electivire, I believe that we're already on the right track here, so this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

tl;dr--For all the reasons above, I believe that Volt Absorb is the best choice of ability for CAP11 and don't feel that there will really be any problems with it making CAP11 too much of a Gyarados-partner instead (and even if it did, I feel that to be irrelevant, and something that we'll just have to deal with, as Togekiss and Gyarados are weak to many of the same attacks, and what benefits Togekiss defensively will many times also benefit Gyarados. Thus, conversely, if we ignore Gyarados's weaknesses, we'd also be ignoring Togekiss's, and if we do that, the project will naturally be a failure. As a result, even if something like the ability also greatly helps Gyarados, that's something that we have to deal with and hope won't be a problem, as otherwise we'd be hurting CAP11's ability to be a perfect Togekiss partner just as much, if not more so).

 

[FreakInside]

But isn't Volt Absorb and Motor Drive totally out of Fighting/Dark's character?

Volt Absorb is Jolteons and Lanturns ability, both of them is electric and makes sense as Electric type attacks would charge up their batteries, but Fighting/Dark is totally different pokemon which has no connection to being charged by electric

Motor Drive is Electivires original ability and it also makes sense as it is electric type, it also gets charged by electric attacks.
There is a possibility that the Fighting/Dark can use Motor Drive as Electric can stimulate the muscles to make it fast, but not being an Electric type, it should take damage as well.

That being said, I vote against them to stay true to the Pokemon World.

 

[Gasoline]

@Naxte: obviously they have almost the same weaknesses but thats because they share a typing.... Flying, but the problem i have with giving CAP11 Volt Absorb or Motor Drive is the fact that it will benefit Gyarados MORE than Togekiss, if we give CAP11 Volt Absorb it will fail as a perfect partner for TOGEKISS, why? well because our goal is to have Togekiss usage to go up, NOT Gyarados. So if we give CAP11 Volt Absorb it will have almost perfect synergy with Gyarados and NOT Togekiss. Why? well lets see Dark/Fighting is weak to what? Fighting and Flying? Flying isn't that common in OU but fighting is... so what pokemon takes fighting attacks that CAP11 hates? Gyarados... therefore by giving CAP11 Volt Absorb it will cover gyarados' weaknesses of Rock and Electric all TOO well. No partnership of pokemon will be "perfect" but it will help beat out teams. And with the stats i see Rising_Dusk giving CAP11 im sure it can take a T-Bolt from Gengar, Zapdos, etc. and then kill off with Dark Pulse or w/e else it gets. The only problem here that i should find now that i think of it is that Togekiss and CAP11 do not like to take constant fighting moves like Focus Blast from gengar or CC from Lucario etc.... Something will ALWAYS break a combo of pokemon just like MixApe breaks Heatran/Celebi and Skarm/Bliss.... Dont be surprised if something like Zapdos will kill the combo, thats why you carry something to deal with that like Swampert or w/e when latias was OU people were running skarm/bliss/latias... why? To stop ape from screwing up Skarm/Bliss. Therefore your point of we "need" Volt Absorb is absurd. CAP11 is in no need of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive, and i find that final.

 

[Deck Knight]

Given a choice between Volt Absorb and Motor Drive, I would tend to favor Volt Absorb. It's true CAP11 is resistant to Stealth Rock but its still susceptible to the other hazards and can be whittled down. Volt Absorb turns electric attacks into opportunities to remove that residual damage provided it can come in without being KO'd by them in the process. The Speed boost from Motor Drive is quite nice, but if we're using LO CAP 11 Zapdos and Rotom can toss Thunderbolts at Togekiss all they want; eventually CAP 11 will be whittled down by hazards.

In other words my recommendation is to combine Motor Drive and Volt Absorb supporters behind a single ability, preferably Volt Absorb. Volt Absorb makes Rotom-A and Zapdos pay a much steeper price than Motor Drive for slingling around Thunderbolts.

Paralysis immunity in the absolute is nice, but Thunder Wave is the most common paralysis inducer. There are also other ways to address status like Psycho Shift, Heal Bell, etc.

 

[NARFNra]

But isn't Volt Absorb and Motor Drive totally out of Fighting/Dark's character?

Volt Absorb is Jolteons and Lanturns ability, both of them is electric and makes sense as Electric type attacks would charge up their batteries, but Fighting/Dark is totally different pokemon which has no connection to being charged by electric

Motor Drive is Electivires original ability and it also makes sense as it is electric type, it also gets charged by electric attacks.
There is a possibility that the Fighting/Dark can use Motor Drive as Electric can stimulate the muscles to make it fast, but not being an Electric type, it should take damage as well.

That being said, I vote against them to stay true to the Pokemon World.

Time and Time again, it has been said that flavor has absolutely no effect on ability if need be. Just because it doesn't make much sense can't exist, nor does it means it's a good reason to vote against it if this would help it accomplish it's job.

 

[Xatu fan]

I support the abilities Trace, Poison heal and Lightning Rod. Trace can be used against Jolteon and Electivire, It's also useful for a lot of other pokemon that aren't neccisarily a danger to togekiss. Poison heal has some charm because I can just Slap on a toxic orb and I don't worry about status and I gain HP to continue surviving to aid my faithful Togekiss. Lightning Rod is just there to stop all of this talk about Volt Absorb and Motor Drive, those abilities show's we're desperate to make a PERFECT pokemon, which is not possible, well, it is but we would have to make it Uber and therefore fail in our CAP, but Lightning Rod absorbs electric attacks WITHOUT healing or getting a boost of any kind, which I think would be much better. Another ability might be Unburden, for the sole fact that This pokemon has to be able to work WITHOUT Togekiss to, you heard me, it will undoubtedly be better with togekiss, but if we put every single aspect of this pokemon into helping togekiss, if togekiss dies, it'll be dead weight, Unburden helps that to make this pokemon also exel alone, not as much as with its partner, but it can still manage alone, if need be, we can also give this pokemon recycle so it can still work in it's group with Togekiss while having Unburden, but I have to say, my favorite abilities at the moment, unless someone convinces me, are Trace and Poison Heal. In my opinion they would work perfectly, especialy Poison Heal, and it'll be nice to see another pokemon with poison heal around.

 

[Azule]

I'd support Volt Absorb, because of the whole "throw Thunderbolts at togekiss and i'll recover" and force you out (In Rotom-A's case, heavily dent with Pursuit should it get it)

 

[Raikaria]

Motor Drive is a horendous ability for CAP11, not because of it being useless, but, because it's too good.

Look at Electivire. Yes, he gets walled, and dosen't hit hard enough [Blame there being no decent physical electric move for that, not 'Vire himself.], but if he gets a Motor Drive Boost, he can still be hard as anything to stop.

The way the stat poll is going, this CAP is going to have at least 110 speed, and 100 Sp.Attack. One of the reasons being used through this whole CAP is Nastypassing with Togekiss.

Togekiss can usually take an electric attack, so let's just use this as a hypothetical situation:

Togekiss switches in on something that dosen't like it.
Pokemon X switches out for Zapdos. It gets hit by Thunder Wave

Togekiss uses Nasty Plot. Zapdos uses Thunderbolt.

Thinking Togekiss will try and sweep, or try and take it out viva Flinchax, Zapdos uses Thunderbolt again. Instead, Togekiss uses Baton Pass to CAP11.

All of a sudden, CAP11 got a free switch in, has a free choice scarf, +2 Sp.Attack, and type coverage only resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak. That would be pretty much unstoppable, considering it's probobly going to get Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse at least.

Motor Drive has the potential to be DREADFULLY broken. The only reason it's acceptable on Electivire is he's only got Base 95 Speed, not 110+ and he either uses Thunderbolt off Base 85 [Not 100], Sp.Attack, or Thunderpunch, a far weaker choice, off 123, not to mention 'Vire's STAB coverage is nothing compared to CAP11's.

Even without nastypassing, you still have to worry about Close Combats and Crunches, running off at least Base 80 attack.

And to top it all off, should CAP11 get Baton Pass, it can pass the Nasty Plot boosts and the speed back to Togekiss, who can do it all over again. Last thing anyone wants is a +2 Togekiss, with +1 Speed, Flinchaxing everything in sight. Even if it's just got Air Slash for coverage, at +2, with 60% flinch rate... well, you get the picture, Jirachi kills things with Flinchax alone...

Oh, and to top it all off, Motor Drive + Great STAB = Gyarados' partner of dreams. Enough said. Especially if it can pass the speed back to Gyarados.

I am 100% against Motor Drive. It will make Nastypassing horrendously broken, and even then, giving something with Base 110 [At least], what equates to a Choice Scarf without the Choice is pushing it as it is.


Volt Absorb is a far better choice, especially as CAP11 will end up with low HP, regardless of the spread chosen, so the healing won't be too extreme, but will still be enough to help offset resisted hits/SR/Spikes/LO.

 

[eXeggutoraped]

1. Synchronize would be perfect.

It covers toxic as well as T-Wave.
It's not overpowered with cap 11 still getting statused.
It would be incredible useful for shuting down a togekiss counter just by swichting in (with correct prediction).
Cap11 can sacrifice itself to keep togekiss in good condition and neutralize a counter.

2. Also like Guts, Cap11 going to have a higher special attack than pyhsical (which i didn't like) so a 50% boost will make it a good (great?) dual attacker.

Hide

(off topic how many damaging fighting moves are special anyway?)

3. Volt Absorb over motor drive to recover off stealth rock / spikes damage, increasing cap11's speed would be too good.

4. limber is too underpowered and situational imo, but it does it's job.
Depends on how fast cap11 will be...Maybe Volt absorb + limber combined?

Trace is great on anything, many pokemon with trace will shut
down elective and jolteon by nulling there only stab move, so i'm against it.

Overall status is going to be more importaint than eletrict attack.

 

[capefeather]

Ability run-through (these are not all of them, just ones that were mentioned ITT and ones I considered):

Adaptability: The stat spreads have been carefully regulated. no

Battle Armor: Don't see how this helps. no

Clear Body: Bulk Up is a Type-Move and you want no counter to this? NO

Color Change: I thought of this as a funny way to deal with Electric-types while becoming pretty useless against other threats. Judgment, anyone? ...but it's probably best not to entertain this further. no

Compoundeyes: If you guys actually want CAP 11 to run a specially offensive set, remedying Focus Blast's accuracy may make that much more desirable. After thinking about it, though, No Guard is probably better in terms of both luck and regulating CAP 11's power. It's hard, but... no

Guts: See Adaptability. no

Immunity: Could work since CAP 11 is probably going to need a Life Orb and will need breathing room against Toxic users.

Intimidate: It already has Bulk Up and you want to lower Atk further? Physical tanking isn't much of a problem IMO. no

Limber: I don't remember who said it, but this only really helps against Blissey. Also, CAP 11 has Taunt. no

Marvel Scale: See Intimidate. no

Motor Drive: Speed is carefully regulated. ...But since one of the stat spread makers has gone on to support Motor Drive, I'll consider it.

Natural Cure: The problem with CAP 11 when it comes to status is the initial affliction, not continued affliction. Plus, I don't like Natural Cure personally because of Toxic Spikes silliness. no

No Guard: See Compoundeyes. This might be less luck-based and more precise.

Poison Heal: ...I'd rather not make CAP 11 bulkier. no

Quick Feet: See Motor Drive. no

Serene Grace: I don't like luck-based abilities. no

Shadow Tag: NO

Shed Skin: See Serene Grace. Immunity to a specific status is fine with me. no

Simple: wtf NO

Skill Link: I don't see a pressing need to break Substitutes or whatever. no

Suction Cups: CAP 11 has Taunt. no

Synchronize: This is a severe mismatch lol. Blissey won't mind paralysis, and Rotom-A won't mind a burn. no

Technician: We're giving CAP 11 priority? Or what? no

Thick Fat: Typical Ice cushion. I was for this initially, but the arguments for Ground way back when have made me wonder whether this is really needed. It's hard to reject this, but I'm going to have to say... no

Trace: Unlike Synchronize, this matches up incredibly well with CAP 11's opponents.

Vital Spirit: I don't see the point of this. It's not like Togekiss is somehow more susceptible to sleep. no

Volt Absorb: Electric absorption YEAH!!!! But seriously, if anyone still wants to beat Jolteon, this option is still here. I'd definitely support this if the Jibaku/Zy spread doesn't go through.

Water Veil: This is just so defensive Rotom-A doesn't screw with CAP 11's physical offenses. Now that I think about it, though, it doesn't seem likely that Rotom-A could even threaten a burn (because of Taunt), with CAP 11 able to take two attacks from Rotom-A. So I'm changing my mind on this one. no

So my final support list is:
Immunity
Motor Drive
No Guard
Trace
Volt Absorb

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Let me quote Rising_Dusk from an earlier discussion thread, where he shows us indirectly why CAP 11 does NOT need an electric immunity

...

CAP 11 already has a fighting weakness, and Togekiss can't switch into strong fighting attacks. The Togekiss/CAP 11 duo will need an intermediate pivot as it stands. Someone who can switch in on strong electric attacks is just a necessary pivot. The duo will not fail without an electric immunity. For example, Rotom-A switches in on Togekiss. You switch to Celebi on the thunderbolt, then CAP 11 on the shadow ball. That is how lots of offensive cores work, and keeping that in mind is critical. The same principal applies with other strong non-choiced electric attackers; Pokemon like Celebi and Rotom-A resist electric attacks and draw ghost and dark attacks for CAP 11 to switch in on. Having a simple pivot pokemon is already essential to the duo, and an ability like Volt Absorb or Motor Drive allows CAP 11 to function too well with other electric-weak pokemon.

If you're going to quote me, do it right and include my whole post. Taking parts of it out of context to "prove your point" is lame. I specifically state in that post that having a STAB that can threaten one of Togekiss's checks/counters is more important then making up for the no Electric-resistance/immunity at that stage of the CAP. If we had ended up with a Fighting/Electric or Fighting/Ground CAP, we would lack the STABs to punch through the things that Togekiss hates, even if we could switch into them! That's the important point you're missing here. Now that we have a great STAB in the Dark-type to beat Rotom-A and hit Zapdos and friends for neutral damage, we need to make up for the Electric-type neutrality here.

Short of introducing a custom ability, which Fuzznip appears to be madly against, the only plausible scenario is that we give CAP11 one of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive. There are no other feasible options, and if we don't make up for this problem at this stage of the CAP, we won't get another chance.

For those people worrying about Motor Drive being too good, let me remind you that we have not even looked at the movepool for CAP11 yet. Motor Drive is not inherently broken (Like Magic Guard for Krilowatt was), rather, it is something that could give CAP11 exactly what it needs without being too much. Movepool-wise, CAP11 really doesn't need a lot of type coverage, not nearly as much as, say, Electivire has. If we play the movepool stage properly, we won't run into any issues with CAP11 becoming some offensive monster thanks to Motor Drive and insane coverage. Heck, we don't even have to give CAP11 any self-boosting moves. Bulk Up may be a T-M for the Fighting-type, but it is still within Fuzznip's power to disallow it during the Non-Attacking Move stage! That means that any fears you guys have of Motor Drive are entirely unfounded; we just don't have to worry about it so long as we don't give CAP11 every movepool trick in the book. (And if I have any say in it, we won't)

Also, in response to Deck:

Given a choice between Volt Absorb and Motor Drive, I would tend to favor Volt Absorb. It's true CAP11 is resistant to Stealth Rock but its still susceptible to the other hazards and can be whittled down. Volt Absorb turns electric attacks into opportunities to remove that residual damage provided it can come in without being KO'd by them in the process. The Speed boost from Motor Drive is quite nice, but if we're using LO CAP 11 Zapdos and Rotom can toss Thunderbolts at Togekiss all they want; eventually CAP 11 will be whittled down by hazards.

Motor Drive is a more effective mind-game weapon. The bonus Speed CAP11 could get makes it so that most typical Choice Scarf revenge-killers just won't work that well anymore. This really discourages opponents from trying Electric-type attacks more-so than Volt Absorb does. I also feel that it's healthy for CAP11 to be discouraged from over-switching in the presence of Spikes. Stealth Rock is only doing 6.25% to CAP11 anyway. If I had to support a single of Motor Drive / Volt Absorb, it would be Motor Drive. If only one of these makes it to the poll, I will vote for that one regardless of what it is. (It's too important for CAP11's success)

 

[Mektar]

If you're going to quote me, do it right and include my whole post. Taking parts of it out of context to "prove your point" is lame. I specifically state in that post that having a STAB that can threaten one of Togekiss's checks/counters is more important then making up for the no Electric-resistance/immunity at that stage of the CAP. If we had ended up with a Fighting/Electric or Fighting/Ground CAP, we would lack the STABs to punch through the things that Togekiss hates, even if we could switch into them! That's the important point you're missing here. Now that we have a great STAB in the Dark-type to beat Rotom-A and hit Zapdos and friends for neutral damage, we need to make up for the Electric-type neutrality here.

Short of introducing a custom ability, which Fuzznip appears to be madly against, the only plausible scenario is that we give CAP11 one of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive. There are no other feasible options, and if we don't make up for this problem at this stage of the CAP, we won't get another chance.

For those people worrying about Motor Drive being too good, let me remind you that we have not even looked at the movepool for CAP11 yet. Motor Drive is not inherently broken (Like Magic Guard for Krilowatt was), rather, it is something that could give CAP11 exactly what it needs without being too much. Movepool-wise, CAP11 really doesn't need a lot of type coverage, not nearly as much as, say, Electivire has. If we play the movepool stage properly, we won't run into any issues with CAP11 becoming some offensive monster thanks to Motor Drive and insane coverage. Heck, we don't even have to give CAP11 any self-boosting moves. Bulk Up may be a T-M for the Fighting-type, but it is still within Fuzznip's power to disallow it during the Non-Attacking Move stage! That means that any fears you guys have of Motor Drive are entirely unfounded; we just don't have to worry about it so long as we don't give CAP11 every movepool trick in the book. (And if I have any say in it, we won't)

Also, in response to Deck:

Motor Drive is a more effective mind-game weapon. The bonus Speed CAP11 could get makes it so that most typical Choice Scarf revenge-killers just won't work that well anymore. This really discourages opponents from trying Electric-type attacks more-so than Volt Absorb does. I also feel that it's healthy for CAP11 to be discouraged from over-switching in the presence of Spikes. Stealth Rock is only doing 6.25% to CAP11 anyway. If I had to support a single of Motor Drive / Volt Absorb, it would be Motor Drive. If only one of these makes it to the poll, I will vote for that one regardless of what it is. (It's too important for CAP11's success)

Well, electric type neutrality is important to CAP 11, but other ideas need to be considered as well. A Pokemon can have two abilities for different purposses. Take Yanmega for example. If it is a passer, it gets Speed Boost. If it is a sweeper, it gets Tinted Lens.

 

[Puffins R Cool]

I agree with Volt Absorb as CAP11's ability. We need this pokemon to be the perfect partner, and absorbing Thunderbolts aimed at Toge would work.

However,Motor Drive isn't bad either. With the speed boost, it could actually perform on it's own, absorbing Jolteon's attacks and firing back with STAB Focus Blast and STAB Dark Pulse.

 

[doominic77]

I think the best abilities so far are Volt Absorb and Motor Drive (and CAP 11 can have both). Before I said Volt Absorb/Motor Drive would make CAP 11 Gyarados' best friend but reading the posts has made me change my mind.

The 3rd best ability in my opinion is Shed Skin. With Shed Skin all status effects are not a problem (and I'm not sure if Shed Skin works on self afflicted status effects but if it does it'd make CAP 11 a good rester).

 

[Accipender]

I'm going to be really off-the-wall and suggest Static (or some other name for it to fit flavor) as the ability. There is nothing Togekiss likes more than paralyzed opponents (so it can use the annoying paraflinch strategy), and the ability to passively para pokes seems like a huge plus.

I think that people are trying to make CAP 11 too standalone. Having Volt Absorb/Motor Drive doesn't really help Kiss at all - and it could thus be used with any poke that attracts Electric attacks, like, say, Gyarados. The ability, imo, should set up a sweep or substantially aid Kiss in some way.

 

[capefeather]

How does providing a decent switch-out not help Togekiss? Static might be nice to make physical attackers worry a bit against CAP 11, but ultimately I just see it as a hax ability that is easily shafted by just about any competitive secondary ability we could give CAP 11.

@ below post:
The other problem with Static is that basically none of the common attacks aimed at Togekiss are contact moves.

I'm not really sure where you're going with this. CAP 11 is a good partner for Togekiss or it isn't. If we give CAP 11 traits that help a generic Flying type, that helps Togekiss. I thought that's what we were trying to do.

So far, I wouldn't say that CAP 11 is a better partner for Gyarados than, say, Jolteon. Jolteon can beat HP Electric Suicune and Vaporeon, as well as take full advantage of their switching out. CAP 11 doesn't do that. Togekiss can deal with Skarmory without resorting to Taunt. Gyarados can't do that. I don't mean to make a list that people will just waste time scrutinizing, but people really need to understand that we can quite easily create mismatches like this in the CAP 11 + Gyarados partnership.

I cannot stress enough how important this point is. People need to look at the details instead of assuming that Gyarados is the only good Flying type in OU. Because this is basically what you guys are saying right now. Additionally, if you're rejecting Volt Absorb / Motor Drive for flavour reasons (this doesn't "fit"), you're insulting the creativity of the CAP artists, quite frankly. Game Freak itself has pushed perceived boundaries of what can become a Pokémon. Let's not deny our CAP artists the same potential.

 

[Accipender]

How does providing a decent switch-out not helping Togekiss? Static might be nice to make physical attackers worry a bit against CAP 11, but ultimately I just see it as a hax ability that is easily shafted by just about any competitive secondary ability we could give CAP 11.

There are already a ton of Pokemon that are "decent" switchouts for Togekiss. Any Ground type could take Electric as well as a Poke with Volt Absorb or Motor Drive. Any Rock/Fighting type could take rock attacks. Unfortunately, these help any Flying Pokemon. The idea of this is a PERFECT MATE for Togekiss, not someone that can work well if given the chance. I fear that if we give this Pokemon an ability such as Motor Drive or Volt Absorb, it would quickly leave Kiss behind in favor of more Powerful Pokemon such as Gyarados. Another problem I fear is that an ability such as Motor Drive or Volt Absorb would help CAP 11 and make it able to be stand alone.

Granted, Static IS a hax ability, but IMO it's a hax ability that could be potentially very powerful for Kiss that could allow a sweep.

 

[Jebus McAzn]

Snunch's custom ability is decent, but Fuzz already expressed his distaste at custom abilities. I think with the pool of abilities we already have, we can pick a great fit.

Guts wouldn't work considering the relatively mediocre Attack stats of all the stat spreads submitted for Poll 6a. Quick Feet is redundant considering CAP 11's high Speed stat.

Volt Absorb and Motor Drive could potentially overpower CAP 11 into not only being a perfect mate for Togekiss, but also for Gyarados. However, I do agree that an Electric immunity would be extremely beneficial to CAP 11. I'm iffy on these two abilities.

My vote for primary ability goes to Limber, as Togekiss's primary concern is Paralysis. Toxic may seem like a problem, but any non-Plotting version of Kiss can switch out, come back in, and Roost off the damage. Something like Natural Cure would be a bit too overpowered and too prone to counter Toxic/Will-O-Wisp users. Limber gives us an edge against paralysis and nothing else. The ability also fits very nicely with almost all of the artworks I've seen.

Another amazing ability can be found in Mold Breaker. Mold Breaker nullifies the advantage that Levitate users have, in addition to letting us hit Flash Fire users with Fire moves, Water Absorb users with Water moves, and Volt Absorb/Motor Drive users with Electric moves. The only challenge I see in Mold Breaker, though, is its actual usefulness in the metagame. The primary Levitate user to worry about is Rotom, and we have Dark STAB to handle him. Flash Fire (Heatran) can be put down by Fighting STAB. We wouldn't ever want to hit Vaporeon with a Water move, since it would do little damage whatsoever, and the same goes for hitting Electivire/Jolteon with Electric moves. Still, the ability itself could be extremely interesting.

 

[TFT]

(read through a few pages and didnt see this, sorry if its a bad idea or has been suggested)

I'd like to suggest Effect Spore as already stated Togekiss loves its Paraflinch, this ability allows Cap11 to passively inflict paralysis for Togekiss. Sleep and Poison aren't bad status inflictions either if they come in instead of paralysis. The downside to this being only a 30% chance to inflict status and only 10% for paralysis...

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

(read through a few pages and didnt see this, sorry if its a bad idea or has been suggested)

I'd like to suggest Effect Spore as already stated Togekiss loves its Paraflinch, this ability allows Cap11 to passively inflict paralysis for Togekiss. Sleep and Poison aren't bad status inflictions either if they come in instead of paralysis. The downside to this being only a 30% chance to inflict status and only 10% for paralysis...

There is an ability that only inflicts Paralysis. Static.

If we were to go with something like that I wouldn't mind as long as 'Kiss' counters have a good percentage of contact moves.

 

[X-Act]

With Fuzznip's permission:

Instead of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive, we could go with something a bit less powerful.

For example, something like Electric-type Heatproof. The Pokemon is dealt 50% less damage from Electric attacks. If you remember, I had already suggested such an ability for another CAP, and we had tentatitively called it Shockproof.

Since Heatproof also lowers Burn damage by half (a Heatproof Pokemon takes 1/16 of its HP as Burn damage rather than 1/8), we could do something similar for Paralysis as well. I have two options: either
1) Paralysis Speed loss is halved (meaning, the Pokemon has 50% of its Speed instead of 25% of its Speed when paralysed).
2) Chance of being fully-paralysed is halved (meaning, the Pokemon has a 12.5% chance of being fully paralysed instead of the usual 25%).

Of course, we could just choose for the Pokemon to take 50% less damage from Electric attacks and that's it.

I see Motor Drive and Volt Absorb as being simply too powerful. I prefer something like this.

 

[soccerboi46]

A little off the beaten path of previous suggestions, but why not Arena Trap?

Since CAPkiss is made specifically to compliment Togekiss, the ability to switch in and trap and kill its counters would be perfect, especially with all of the proposed stat spreads toting high speed.

The only downfall I see to this is it gives CAP a niche of its own outside partnership with Togekiss as a revenge killer, but that might not be such a bad thing.

 

[Viashino_wizard]

Well among other things, two of 'kiss biggest counters (Rotom and Zapdos) are immune to Arena Trap.