CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 6a - Ability Discussion

[Dogfish44]

@Soccerboi46 - Won't work. Arena trap won't Trap Rotom - A OR Zapdos due to Levitate and Flying Typing. Not good. EDIT- NINJA'd

Anyway, I support Shockproof right now, since it isn't overpowered. Also, I prefer the full speed drop reduced, full paralysis rate decrease would simply make full para become more hax like than normal. Then again, Heatproof doesn't change the stat drop from burn, so by the game standards we would drop the Paralysis rate.

 

[Myrmidon]

Mountaineer:
Why not? it takes Stone Edges aimed at Togekiss, and could aid it well in this respect.

Immunity/Limber:
I like this pairing, but I'm not sure I'd like 'em solo...as a pair, it has a very Bronzong feel to it...failing that, my vote goes towards at LEAST Limber...

Technician:
an interesting idea...could give CAP11 a bit of a Scizor-esque feel with Vacuum Wave/Mach Punch.

Skill Link:
has my support as well, and would help greatly against any sub user...could also make CAP11 a good anti-lead...

...mymain vote goes towards Mountaineer, though...

 

[Viashino_wizard]

CAP11 is already resistant to Rock. I don't think Mountaineer will help it as much as Limber/Immunity or Shockproof.

 

[danmantincan]

I really like X-Act's ability, Shockproof. I dislike the fact that Motor Drive and Volt Absorb give a total immunity since CAP11 and Togekiss were meant to form an offensive duo, rather than a defensive one. Shockproof will still allow CAP11 to switch in safely on Jolteon, Zapdos and Rotom-A, while not letting it sit there and wall Electric attacks all day. I think that the secondary benefit of Shockproof should be to lower the chance of being fully paralyzed. This will allow CAP11 to have a better chance of hitting faster Pokemon with Vacuum Wave.

@soccerboi46: Arena Trap is not a bad ability, since it allows CAP11 to remove opposing Blissey and Tyranitar, though there are many other Pokemon that would greatly benefit from this happening. However, it does nothing to help against Rotom-A and Zapdos, who really need to be removed for Togekiss' success.

 

[Fuzznip]

Guys, please stop suggesting random abilities for the sake of posting. I mean, something's wrong when people are suggesting Arena Trap, Effect Spore, Marvel Scale, and Technician, among other abilities. These abilities I've listed don't help to further synergize CAP 11 and Togekiss, not in the slightest for that matter. Arena Trap doesn't even trap Zapdos, a threat we need to address in some way, and even though it traps Jolteon, CAP 11 is dead from Thunderbolt. Effect Spore and Marvel Scale are awful as well, because the former works with contact moves (Thunderbolt/Ice Beam are not even contact moves) and Togekiss has Heal Bell to rid herself of harmful status. I don't even know why Technician was brought up. It doesn't help with Zapdos or any other Electric threats and this CAP isn't supposed to be some priority abuser. Togekiss spreads paralysis, why does CAP need boosted priority moves? So please, think long and hard about your suggested abilities. A lot of them really don't help with the core at all. It's getting out of hand.

I'm also going to make an announcement regarding Volt Absorb and Motor Drive. I am not going to be picking both as options for the poll, I'm only picking one of them. The reason I'm doing this is because they both accomplish the same thing, which is absorbing Electric-type attacks, but they have different effects. By the looks of it so far, though, Volt Absorb will likely be the one because it has more support. However, this is still up for debate and I would therefore like to see more discussion about which ability is better than the other for CAP 11 + Togekiss.

I'm probably going to post the ability poll tomorrow morning, so be sure to voice your opinion before it's too late.

 

[Darkamber8828]

@Naxte: obviously they have almost the same weaknesses but thats because they share a typing.... Flying, but the problem i have with giving CAP11 Volt Absorb or Motor Drive is the fact that it will benefit Gyarados MORE than Togekiss, if we give CAP11 Volt Absorb it will fail as a perfect partner for TOGEKISS, why? well because our goal is to have Togekiss usage to go up, NOT Gyarados. So if we give CAP11 Volt Absorb it will have almost perfect synergy with Gyarados and NOT Togekiss. Why? well lets see Dark/Fighting is weak to what? Fighting and Flying? Flying isn't that common in OU but fighting is... so what pokemon takes fighting attacks that CAP11 hates? Gyarados... therefore by giving CAP11 Volt Absorb it will cover gyarados' weaknesses of Rock and Electric all TOO well. No partnership of pokemon will be "perfect" but it will help beat out teams. And with the stats i see Rising_Dusk giving CAP11 im sure it can take a T-Bolt from Gengar, Zapdos, etc. and then kill off with Dark Pulse or w/e else it gets. The only problem here that i should find now that i think of it is that Togekiss and CAP11 do not like to take constant fighting moves like Focus Blast from Gengar or CC from Lucario etc.... Something will ALWAYS break a combo of pokemon just like MixApe breaks Heatran/Celebi and Skarm/Bliss.... Dont be surprised if something like Zapdos will kill the combo, thats why you carry something to deal with that like Swampert or w/e when Latias was OU people were running skarm/bliss/latias... why? To stop ape from screwing up Skarm/Bliss. Therefore your point of we "need" Volt Absorb is absurd. CAP11 is in no need of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive, and i find that final.

Flying will be more common than any other type, because a Togekiss without Air Slash is a bad Togekiss. Even the Hustle ones notwithstanding.

| Togekiss | Ability | Serene Grace | 95.4 |

Also, the point was, Gyarados and Togekiss are both weak to Electric and Rock. Cap 11 With Volt Absorb would resist Electric and Rock. But, as I think you've ignored, Togekiss has different counters than Gyarados, and CAP 11's typing lets it deal with Togekiss' counters (like, Blissey/Cressy) than Gyarados (like, Vappy/Suicune/Resttalk Gyara/[Bulky Water])

So, yes, Volt Absorb helps Gyara. It helps Togekiss more. And so, Volt Absorb is a good choice.

EDIT: Oh. Well, Volt Absorb is a better choice than Motor Drive. CAP 11 is already outspeeding almost everything. The ONLY thing Motor Drive would accomplish (in killing off Kiss' counters) (that I can think of) is outspeeding a Jolteon and OHKOing it with [move]. This is irrelevant because CAP 11 can switch in at 100%, or at least 87%, easily survive a super effective Hidden Power, and OHKO it with [move]. Volt Absorb also lets CAP 11 switch happily into an Electric attack from Rotom-A (Rotom-S notwithstanding) and Zapdos, outspeed, and kill it (or at least cripple it). So, Volt Absorb is better than Motor Drive.

 

[FreakInside]

ShockProof? That's exactly what I proposed to Fuzznip! Mine was ElectricProof since ShockProof sounds something from a camera. Mine is also based on HeatProof.

Anyway, I pick the second effect.

2) Chance of being fully-paralysed is halved (meaning, the Pokemon has a 12.5% chance of being fully paralysed instead of the usual 25%.)

I pick number 2 because HeatProof halves damage done by burn, ShockProof should have half chance of being unable to move, since HeatProof doesn't reduce the Attack cut.

My Winning Choice is:
X-Act's ShockProof and Trace

 

[firecape]

I think Motor Drive is better then Volt Absorb for many reasons. The first, and foremost, is because doesn't give CAP11 a way to heal when it switches in. You may say it recieves a speed boost, but it already outspeed everything but Jolteon that commonly uses Electric attacks, and that is the point to scare away Jolteon. Jolteon is the single biggest threat to this core, it will laugh at your heal and use HP Fighting to do 66.7% - 78.5% to you (calculated with Rising Dusk's spread) with a Life Orb. (It may not carry that now, but of course it will start carrying it to combat CAP11.) This means we will take 66% minimum, and even if we may not even be able to OHKO it, meaning certain death. And even if it doesn't run HP Fighting, it can still use Signal Beam to 2HKO you. If we outspeed it however, we can easily 2HKO it, and may take 66% from HP Fighting or 71% - 84.1% from Signal Beam, but that is a small price to pay to be rid of it. Volt Absorb and Motor Drive really make no difference against Rotom and Zapdos, because you outspeed them all anyways! In addition to this, Motor Drive is less broken then Volt Absorb. With Volt Abosrb you can endlessly switch to CAP11 to heal on Electric moves and Togekiss can Roost, unless they have Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes, and even then, you still take minimal damage. This is not the point, not to make an "invincible combo" but a solid one. Motor Drive also encourages Togekiss to use Wish, another positive aspect of it. Motor Drive is also a bigger deterent for spamming Electric attacks, what would you be more afraid of: a 25% heal on switch in, or a +1 Base 110 Speed Pokemon?

Lastly, a Baton Pass Pokemon with Motor Drive has never been done before. It would make people even more eager to pair it up with Togekiss in Baton Pass chains to get +2 SpA and +1 Speed. I would also like to address the arguement that both abilities help Gyarados more then Togekiss. This is utterly false. You absorb an Electric attack, that is it. You have no way to muscle through Vaporeon with 130/95 or Suicune with 100/115. No way at all, meaning that you just got a speed boost from an HP Electric, and now have to switch out. How does that help Gyarados at all? You just took an Electric attack and switched out, the same that could be done with any Ground Pokemon. In conclusion, the speed boost does not help CAP11 get through its counters.

 

[doominic77]

I think Motor Drive is better then Volt Absorb for many reasons. The first, and foremost, being that Motor Drive is the lesser of 2 evils.

If there both evils why are you supporting one of them.

 

[firecape]

Because it is crucial that we have an Electric immunity, and a way of discouraging Electric attacks being thrown around in the first place, but I will agree, It was bad wording.

 

[nihilist]

I support Volt Absorb over Motor Drive. As stated earlier, there MUST be synergy resistance/immunity wise between dark/fighting mon and Togekiss. In the current metagame, STAB electric attacks are the most common of types of attacks that are super effective against Togekiss. By the way the stat poll is going, CAP 11 isn't going to have the bulk to take repeated thunderbolts from rotom/zapdos/jolt. Volt Absorb will be more handy because CAP 11 is already going to be outspeeding most things, with the only notable exception being scarf rotom. Volt Absorb will give CAP 11 a means to regain health and SR damage and constantly pressure the opponent to stray away from Electric attacks. If the opponent has something that can wall CAP 11 all day, then they can keep shooting off electric attacks without worry if CAP 11 gets motor drive, as there is no disadvantage to doing so.

Perhaps the thing that gets me the most upset is the fact that everyone is worried about CAP 11 being a good partner for gyarados. I believe that we should keep this in mind, but we should not let CAP 11 suffer because of it. So what if CAP 11 works well with gyarados? We failed the concept only if it is a BETTER partner with gyarados than with Togekiss. Do we only want to see CAP 11 with Togekiss on every team? Don't get me wrong, I don't think that we should put our worries aside, because people do have good points about CAP 11's concept. BUT, our goal is to make the perfect partner with togekiss, not make a good partner with togekiss and bad partner with everyone else. This may be extreme, but I do not know how to word that last sentence to full effect. So everyone, lets worry less about other pokemon and make CAP 11 shine with kiss.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I am sorry, but I am going to shoot down Shockproof here.

A custom ability is not necessary for several reasons. I have explained numerous times (1 2 3) why Motor Drive is not broken for this CAP in any manner of speaking. Therefore, it can be said that the only reason this ability was even proposed is because people are ignoring my arguments and are instead clamoring behind their fear that we, as a community, (and consequently the TL by association) do not have the resolve to take careful measure of CAP11's movepool and ensure that it does not have the moves required to turn it into something broken. I am a person that constantly favors the capability of creating a new ability where it is necessary, but it is not necessary for this CAP. In lieu of that, I make the case that we should strike Shockproof from the potential slate and focus on what we have available to us, all of which are fair, accomplish what we want, and take this CAP in the direction it needs to go.

 

[Aqueos]

If volt absorb and motor drive are bad, just support shockproof firecape. Even though Fuzznip probably won't like it, it doesn't mean you shouldn't support it... If you want immunity, you could just suggest an ability for electric type move immunity. Anyway, I'll keep on supporting shed skin, to provide pseudo status immunity, because togekiss hates status. We could also go with an early bird rest combo thing, but I think I'm overextending myself, as we haven't gotten to movepool yet.

 

[Deck Knight]

I am sorry, but I am going to shoot down Shockproof here.

A custom ability is not necessary for several reasons. I have explained numerous times (1 2 3) why Motor Drive is not broken for this CAP in any manner of speaking. Therefore, it can be said that the only reason this ability was even proposed is because people are ignoring my arguments and are instead clamoring behind their fear that we, as a community, (and consequently the TL by association) do not have the resolve to take careful measure of CAP11's movepool and ensure that it does not have the moves required to turn it into something broken. I am a person that constantly favors the capability of creating a new ability where it is necessary, but it is not necessary for this CAP. In lieu of that, I make the case that we should strike Shockproof from the potential slate and focus on what we have available to us, all of which are fair, accomplish what we want, and take this CAP in the direction it needs to go.

Not that Shockproof is bad, but honestly Custom Abilities are not necessary since we already have two readily existent abilities. I am fully aware that both are difficult to justify from a flavor perspective, but so would be Shockproof, so that doesn't really address the "ick" factor and indeed, adds extra for being custom.

From a competitive perspective an immunity is always better than a resistance, and from a process perspective custom abilities and attacks are generally shunworthy because they introduce additional nonexistent x-factors. I don't think the era of customs has necessarily met its sunset, but we don't need it for this project. We have two abilities perfectly capable of addressing the Electric attacks we are worried about, and Fuzz will select one of them so they don't end up partitioning each other's support.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

What exactly are we looking for in this primary ability? Are we looking for one that improves the effectiveness of our CAPmon in general, or that increases its synergy with Togekiss? Obviously the latter is preferable, but looking at a lot of the suggestions in this thread I would question how the logic of this is being applied. In my own uneducated opinion, this ability should be one which differentiates Togekiss from other, similar options for its team slot. Primarily, this means Zapdos. However, barring a ridiculously specific ability like “All Normal-types on your team gain a 50% boost to Flying-type moves” (I’m not suggesting that), it seems impossible to make a boost to offensive synergy that Gyarados or Zapdos would not also like.

So, defensive synergy would seem the obvious way to go. Rock is resisted; Ice is a shared weakness with Zapdos - which leaves us yet again at the conundrum of Electric-type moves. A resistance to Electric-type moves seems immensely appealing for a number of reasons. It not only covers one of Togekiss’s worst weaknesses, but also lowers Zapdos’s usability somewhat (especially if the stat and movepool polls give us the facilities to reliably take it on), which can only be a good thing. So, this would seem the obvious first step, as far as I can see. It is a crude and specific method of support, certainly, but this cannot be helped. There are very few other abilities that meet the aforesaid requirements.

So, to what extent does this work? At the top end of the scale we have the immensely powerful abilities Motor Drive and Volt Absorb. The extent to which Motor Drive helps is limited, owing to CAP11’s high Speed regardless (going by the last few options in the poll), and Volt Absorb is much more helpful but not offensively. I definitely do not think that either of them are broken, but they seem quite desperate to me – rather like the Krilowatt @ Levitate difficulties. I would ordinarily be inclined to support a more moderate ability, as per an Electric version of Heatproof, Dry Skin, or Levitate, but my initial instinct is far and away against the concept of custom abilities. To me, they are an incredibly lazy way to fulfil a concept. But in this case I really don’t know what to support. Both Volt Absorb and Motor Drive have the potential to be too powerful for my liking, depending on the nature of the rest of the CAP, but then a more moderate choice goes against my feeling on how a CAP Project should be handled. I suppose I’ll make a decision when I see the slate for the poll.

Thank God I'm not a Topic Leader

 

[Lucario_Guy]

...it is crucial that we have an Electric immunity...

No. Immunity to Electric puts CAP11 at risk for partnering with Gyarados more often than with Togekiss, which means that it's crucial that we don't have an Electric immunity.

X-Act's Shockproof, however, makes more sense. It would only give CAP11 a resistance to Electric and relieve the severity of paralysis. I for one support the latter-proposed effect of this ability for the same reasons a user above explained.

 

[Zystral]

There are several iterations of "Shockproof" going around.
And all are stupid.

If we make Shockproof complete immunity to all Electric-type moves, it becomes and inferior Motor Drive/Volt Absorb. I am going to come back to this point.
If we make it so that it works like Heatproof and reduces damage taken, but still makes you vulnerable to Electric-type moves, it's still worthless since you're still going to get paralyzed and you're still going to take some damage. In fact, Jolteon still 2HKOes you. MS Dos still 2HKOes you. All you're doing is making Gengar and Starmie take a little longer in shooting you down.

If we make it so that it is like the above but reduces speed loss from paralysis, then you're still going to lose 1/3 of the time, and you're still taking damage, and you're still being outsped by some things like Starmie and Gengar and whatnot.

Is there a real need for something as useless as Shockproof? Motor Drive does the job we're looking for, but better. It grants an Electric-immunity. It even boosts Speed which you can then pass on to Togekiss and attempt a sweep.
OH WAIT. GYARADOS?
Seriously what the fuck. You have a Gyarados, who STILL FAILS TO ROTOM, GENGAR, STARMIE AND ZAPDOS.
Guess what? You've now wasted a Team slot attempting to get CAP11 a free speed boost. Since Gyarados is not breaking the walls that can stop CAP11, nor it CAP11 aiding Gyarados' sweep as effectively since you're not killing Cune or Swampert. Also guess what - we have base 105 SpA maximum. Good luck even TRYING to sweep whole teams without Togekiss' Nasty Plot Boost. You now have a really fast Pokemon that can't 2HKO jack shit. Want a medal?

Weakening Electric-type damage...
Would you rather switch into Jolteon, absorb its Charge Beam, nab a Speed Boost and Aura Sphere it's ass? Or would you rather switch in, take negligible damage, let it grab a +1 SpA Boost and outspeed and Thunderbolt your sorry carcass? Yeah I fuckin' thought so. Sub Charge Rotom-A; hey guess what, you lose if you aren't immune to Charge Beam. You're gonna get killed eventually and then it'll just pick you off.
At least with Motor Drive you can be immune, which gives you an easier time switching in, and ergo gives Togekiss a bigger Safety net for which it can play around in. And then, when you've killed enough stuff, you can Baton pass that Speed boost back to Togekiss and attempt more Flinchy Fun.

Reduce paralysis rate/speed drop
Now this is just plain stupid. Really? You're still getting paralyzed. You're still getting fucked up the ass one time out of three. You're STILL going to be slower than you are. Even with a -1Stage as opposed to a -6 Stage speed drop, you're still going to be Togekiss speed. And considering that neither of them are then particularly fast, and neither of them will have any paralysis support of their own, good luck trying to continue sweeping and put on offensive pressure. This is the stupidest option there is, since all you do is just trying to make the effect slightly better when it's still a pretty fucking big problem. It's like putting a sticking plaster on a broken ribcage. You aren't dealing with shit. I would actually rather take the paralysis full force and not use this ability since it at least allows for Quick Feet or Guts or some shit rather than be forced stuck at halfway with a useless ability.

There is NO need for Shockproof whatsoever - It serves zero purpose and it outclassed in every single way by Motor Drive and Volt Absorb. Motor Drive and Volt Absorb are far from Broken, and if anything, they fit what CAP11 needs SO MUCH MORE than your shitty half-way buffer.
You are literally trying to cover a panfire with an ice-cube. A fucking half-assed attempt that will only make it all worse, since it doesn't help at all, it will waste an Ability slot, and I guarantee, that even if Shockproof makes it, Trace or something else is going to be used a HELL OF A LOT MORE.
Why? Since Shockproof sucks, is useless and pales in comparison to any other ability we could have.

Good day and enjoy your cranial cancer.

 

[Naxte]

No. Immunity to Electric puts CAP11 at risk for partnering with Gyarados more often than with Togekiss, which means that it's crucial that we don't have an Electric immunity.

X-Act's Shockproof, however, makes more sense. It would only give CAP11 a resistance to Electric and relieve the severity of paralysis. I for one support the latter-proposed effect of this ability for the same reasons a user above explained.

I'm not following you here. Apparently, an immunity to Electric attacks would make CAP11 too good of a partner for Gyarados (I still disagree with this, but whatever; that's not the point here). However... a resistance would let it be a good partner for Togekiss and wouldn't risk that? I don't follow that. If an immunity is enough Electric is enough to make this thing way more of a Gyarados partner than a Togekiss one, then wouldn't the same be true for a resistance? Why would an immunity make this thing a Gyarados partner, but Togekiss would be happy with just a resistance, with Gyarados suddenly no longer being interested? That doesn't make sense to me; you can't have it both ways like that--either Gyarados is interested in both cases, or it's not; its 4x Electric weakness doesn't go away either way.

Unless... that is, it's not about the immunity or resistance or whatever that would make it a "perfect Gyarados partner" or not, but rather about what moves and such we give CAP11 and what Pokemon it can handle, like people such as myself have been saying. In which case, you're admitting that we can give CAP11 Volt Absorb or Motor Drive without it being a perfect partner for Gyarados, so long as we make it focus on dealing with Togekiss's counters, and not Gyarados's. Whatever the case though, you can't have it both ways, with Volt Absorb/Motor Drive making it too much of a Gyarados partner and Shockproof not (or it not mattering in it's case for some reason or whatever)--either they both have a chance of doing this, as the immunity/resistance is enough to make something a perfect Gyarados counter, or they both don't, and you need more than just a resistance/immunity for it to work as one.

 

[capefeather]

I truly fear that the voters may end up choosing inferior ability options for CAP 11 and unfairly shutting out the existing Electric resist abilities entirely because "it might help Gyarados" or "it doesn't make sense". I also don't want Shockproof to win just because "ZOMG CUSTOM ABILITY SQUEE!!!" The more I think about it, the less I feel that a nerfed ability in Shockproof is needed. Both Volt Absorb and Motor Drive are great options that I feel won't be broken, nor will they automatically make CAP 11 a perfect Gyarados partner. There's more to Pokémon than typing resistances.

Motor Drive is not going to be broken. Pokémon punishes people for making the "easy" decision all the time, and this is no exception. Looking to aim a Jolteon or Starmie Thunderbolt at Togekiss? That is the "easy" decision, and if your opponent capitalizes on that then they deserve it. Starmie Surf 2HKOes CAP 11 anyway, and Jolteon HP Ice deals enough to Togekiss to put the pressure on. It's arguable that CAP 11 can make more use out of Motor Drive than Electivire can (0 Atk Close Combat is stronger than 252 Atk ThunderPunch), but we all know by now that Electivire doesn't make good use out of Motor Drive in the first place despite its awesome super-effective coverage. Motor Drive will allow CAP 11 to beat faster Pokémon and Scarfers, which it deserved for outplaying the opponent, but it won't help against the more defensive threats, or the Speed+ setup sweepers, or priority. OU isn't that fragile against a 85 base Atk Pokémon weak against Fighting of all things. Look at the OU Suspects and how they've all been booted now because switching in a resist was not a good enough punishment for their easy decisions.

If you still think Motor Drive will be broken, AT LEAST consider Volt Absorb. It sounds like a great healing ability, sure, but please, try actually using a Volt Absorb Pokémon and see how that turns out. Volt Absorb just isn't as reliable as, say, Wish because the surprise factor of it will work only the first time, when the Volt Absorb Pokémon needs it the least. CAP 11 is looking to have Machamp's bulk so it might be able to use it more, but it's still weak to the common Fighting moves, which an offensive opponent will be more than happy to spam on the combo to avoid healing CAP 11.

Seriously, the existing Electric-resisting abilities are perfectly fine.

 

[X-Act]

I am fully aware that both are difficult to justify from a flavor perspective, but so would be Shockproof, so that doesn't really address the "ick" factor and indeed, adds extra for being custom.

Well then, justify Heatproof on Bronzong from a flavour perspective to me, please.

rant rant rant

You could have made your point in a slightly less condescending way, you know. So yeah, you don't like Shockproof. That's fine.

But, of course, Shockproof is outclassed by Motor Drive and Volt Absorb. Guess what: it was meant to be that way. I have my own reasons to think that both Motor Drive and Volt Absorb would be too good, and you clearly have your own reasons to think that they aren't. So what? Did you really need to make that kind of post to show us why they're not broken? (Actually you didn't show us why they're not broken in that post, but whatever.)

Chill dude.

Good day and enjoy your cranial cancer.

Whatever.

By the way, since when can CAP11 learn Baton Pass?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

@ X-Act

Well then, justify Heatproof on Bronzong from a flavour perspective to me, please.

Not to totally delve off-topic, but Steel and other metals in real life are actually heat-treated to be resistant to the effects of temperature extremes. Heatproof actually makes a ton of sense flavor-wise, for what it's worth.

I would also like to say that Capefeather's post is simply excellent. I hope that everyone gives it a good read-over, as it covers a lot of the things that really matter in this deciding stage of CAP11.

By the way, since when can CAP11 learn Baton Pass?

Since never, as we haven't even gotten to the movepool stage yet, but the prospect of it is actually pretty cool with Motor Drive as an ability. I'd actually much prefer it over U-turn, but we can't really have this discussion here because of "poll-jumping". :(

 

[Objection]

I am going to quote the first paragraph of my post in one of the typing polls:

If we make a perfect mate for Togekiss and then it gets used more often alongside Rotom or Zapdos or Jirachi or whatever, that says more about Togekiss than it does about the CAP. The best thing we can do for now is focus on making a pokemon that partners well with Togekiss and if, come playtesting, CAP11 partners better with other pokemon, then we either take the effectiveness of Togekiss with CAP11 as a measure of success, or we admit that we were never going to succeed.

In other words, why should we give a shit about Gyarados? Sure, Volt Absorb and Motor Drive may make CAP11 pair better with Gyarados, but as long as those abilities help it pair with Togekiss, either I don't see the problem, or I see the problem and it's impossible to solve anyway (more likely the former).

 

[X-Act]

The thing I hate about Motor Drive and Volt Absorb the most is that they seem like attempts at fixing what we did wrong in the Typing polls (i.e. not vote for Ground). So we didn't vote for Ground, and now people are realising that that was a mistake. Let's fix the mistake by slapping on Motor Drive or Volt Absorb! That's not cool, seriously.

 

[FreakInside]

I want to defend ShockProof against Motor Drive and Volt Absorb.

The Motor Drive will make more CAP11+Gyarados than our original plan and unlike Togekiss, Gyarados doesn't have Ice weakness which would cover everything with Motor Drive CAP11.
CAP11 is going be faster than Zapdos which makes Jolteon the only STAB Thunderbolter who is fast enough and takes normal damage from STAB Pursuit(Which the CAP11 is going to have.)
No need to overkill it ShockProof is enough and CAP11 is supposed to be Good-not-great Pokemon, pay attention to the plan we all agreed on!

Volt Absorb will also make many CAP11+Gyarados since CAP11 resist Rock attacks which Jolteon doesn't. Think about it!

As I said before! Jolteon is the only one fast enough to outspeed CAP11 and takes normal damage from Pursuit at the same time! Which makes Trace the better ability as it covers:
Jolteons Volt Absorb
Blisseys Natural Cure
Electivires Motor Drive
Heatrans Flash Fire
Gyarados' Intimidate
Vaporeons Water Absorb
Magnezones Magnet Pull
Starmies Natural Cure(very useful if CAP11 has already status ailment)
Kingdras Swift Swim(with over 100 speed, CAP11 is the second fastest Swift Swimmer)

ShockProof fixes the mistake from Typing Poll without making it overkill and I suspect that everybody from the very beginning was just gonna fix it with Motor Drive and Volt Absorb, which is just plain cheap... by the way, I missed the Typing Poll and the typing sucks...
I stand by the "good-but-not-great OU pokemon" which is why I choose ShockProof.

ShockProof can be the secondary ability if you find Zapdos too overpowering to the Dou.

 

[Aqueos]

Trace helps against zapdos how?