@Head Smash:
You cannot prove that I still believe in the arguments I made several phases ago. I will explicitly state right now that I currently have no opinion on Raikou - I just don't care about it.
The posts I made in the kd24's thread were made for the sole purpose of making a point: that the arguments were
reasonable (not necessarily correct). I explicitly stated that I objected to SJCrew's condescension in the thread in question; my motive should have been made apparent right then and there.
Additionally, I discussed Venusaur awhile back with Bluewind, and he presented an argument in the vein of "I can make a team that is naturally capable of handling Venusaur. I don't have to overprepare for it, and preparing for Venusaur doesn't force me to significantly open up my team to other threats." This is the same way I felt towards Raikou. As a more defensive player, I naturally would have more trouble with Venusaur than Raikou. Perhaps this might explain my position a little better.
Felt, not feel. This is my justification towards voting Raikou UU, not voting Venusaur BL and Raikou UU.
I was previously arguing under the impression that voting Raikou UU was "right," as Banedon was the person in question with whom I was discussing the issue, and he proposed it.
Furthermore, Raikou was banned anyway, so I was "wrong" in that regard, wasn't I?
Banedon said:
Finally Eo I don't think you're wrong by voting Raikou UU - it's just that based on your position for Raikou, I would've expected you to argue that Venusaur is UU.
But for the sake of consistency, I will go ahead and suggest - well, establish - that I was
wrong in that regard. To be honest, my position on Raikou varied throughout the phase. I thought it was BL at the beginning and UU by the end. What do I think of it now? Frankly, I don't give a damn. It was too long ago, and it doesn't matter to me at all now.
“Milotic is better than Venusaur” in conjunction with your failure to nominate Milotic--I am convinced that what I have said is in fact true.
I never thought this would be such a big deal. Are all my words scrutinized or something? I said it in an informal setting, not to mention that the word "better" is too vague to hold any weight anywhere without further description.
Re: Heysup
Your reasoning contradicts your argument.
"Venusaur and Moltres
never compete for a spot on a team. They are different types, and can switch into different threats."
"People use whatever Pokemon fits in their team for their strategy, and not all good Pokemon have synergy with one another (for example, Pokemon like Spiritomb and Mismagius don't go too well together)."
This is part of why Venusaur vs. Moltres is a meaningless comparison.
They are completely valid and describe the similarities of the Pokemon in question. I may not have 100% defined those terms, but that's because they have mostly well-known and understood definitions. You know that "bulky" means "can switch in, take a hit, and not be killed". Hard to switch into is pretty straightforward. It means that they, either through Sleep Powder or insanely good coverage and power are both very hard to find a switch-in for. And Special Sweepers is quite obviously a Pokemon who tries to beat the opponent with powerful special attacks.
I disagree. Anything can "switch in, take a hit, and not be killed." You're completely ignoring typing/resistances and underestimating the effect of Stealth Rock. "Hard to switch into" ignores what exactly can switch into Moltres and Venusaur, since they have near-opposite counters. Special sweepers ignores the coverage the difference in Moltres's and Venusaur's coverage and also does Venusaur's versatility no justice.
First of all, bulky is completely including Moltres's Stealth Rock weakness. It can still switch into every Earthquake, which is the most common attack in the metagame. Additionally, it takes far less than 50% from most NVE attacks (ie Leaf Storm). Moltres also has Roost, and can find plenty of opportunities to use it (like against most Arcanine and Sceptile). Venusaur has Synthesis but only 8 PP and doesn't work in weather.
Now you're defending your points with the stats you previously dismissed. Furthermore, I highly doubt Earthquake is as common as it used to be (the first user of STAB Earthquake is Donphan at #17).
That aside, so what if it can switch into Leaf Storm? It has to Roost or else it will be KOed by Stealth Rock on the next switch-in, which makes the Moltres user lose a lot of momentum. Stealth Rock is not just a minor issue here in regard to Moltres; it is THE biggest problem that Moltres has.
Second, hard to switch into includes everything about Venusaur. Yes, I'm saying that Moltres is hard to switch into for different reasons than Venusaur, but they both are, when it comes down to it, very hard to switch a Pokemon into. That's the bottom line. Yes, I know Venusaur has Sleep Powder, but against an offensive team, Moltres using Fire Blast is probably harder to switch into than something using Sleep Powder simply because Fire Blast removes a Pokemon from the match, while Sleep Powder only temporarily removes them. You also need to consider Moltres's Speed. Venusaur is slow as balls, and Moltres can outpace the huge amount of Pokemon between base 80 and 90.
And against a defensive team, it's harder to switch in against Sleep Powder.
In addition to all of this, can you actually prove that Moltres is better than Venusaur if "Pokemon are [not] black and white"?
